The NCAA has their Men's Basketball average attendance by season going back to 1975-1976. Of the 41 seasons from 1976-1977 through 2016-2017, 2016-2017 had the lowest average at 4,799. 2016-2017 was the tenth consecutive season with a decrease. In 2017-2018, the average increased by 285, which is the best change between consecutive seasons, but 2017-2018 still ranked 47th of 53 seasons. Everything in my post is only for Division I. Does having more games on TV and for free online hurt attendance?

(12-15-2018 11:56 AM)EvanJ Wrote:  The NCAA has their Men's Basketball average attendance by season going back to 1975-1976. Of the 41 seasons from 1976-1977 through 2016-2017, 2016-2017 had the lowest average at 4,799. 2016-2017 was the tenth consecutive season with a decrease. In 2017-2018, the average increased by 285, which is the best change between consecutive seasons, but 2017-2018 still ranked 47th of 53 seasons. Everything in my post is only for Division I. Does having more games on TV and for free online hurt attendance?

Almost all college and most pro sports are reporting attendance declines, and it's more complex than just because of the growth of television and internet streaming of home games. It's certainly a part of it -- HDTV, bigger home screens and mobile options have made those options way more attractive for people to stay out of the home arena, made worse by the often extortionate pricing for game tickets, parking and concessions that schools must charge to keep up in the college sports arms race.

We're also in an era with far more entertainment options competing for our time - both screened entertainment and destination entertainment, coupled with increased time demands from work and family. Students are also increasingly debt-laden, more academically focused and international, which reduces student attendance and engagement.

Honestly, there are too many games on the schedules - a 10% reduction might make these games more desirable.

The current generation doesn't feel sports is the necessary front porch for the university as previous generations did.

The hot thing is on-demand not live TV. Catch up on content when you have time for it.

The major team sports do not translate well to on demand. Games are too long. Once a game has happened who wants to see it again. Most games you can tell the kind of game it was by the score.

Fight sports do better on demand. Shorter matches. Even if you know the result its interesting to see what happened. International fights you can watch on demand in your time zone.

Also what is attractive right now is anything considered to be high end entertainment such as broadway theater. Playoffs and championships fit that category. Regular season Division 1 basketball does not.

With theater performances, only a small percentage are hardcore about the show, the others perceive it as valuable since it was 100 dollars a ticket. Its high end entertainment.

(12-15-2018 12:29 PM)puck swami Wrote:  Honestly, there are too many games on the schedules - a 10% reduction might make these games more desirable.

Its about skimming as many eyeballs as you can for advertisers so the additional games mean more eyeballs skimmed.

I do think in some of the US markets one or two major league franchises are better than all of the Big 5. Oklahoma City with an NBA team. The entire city is compelled to get behind that one.

NBA would be smart growing to 40 franchises but keeping the playoffs at 16 to make them more competitive. Trying to work in more international franchises. Move the Milwaukee Bucks to London for example.

(12-15-2018 12:29 PM)puck swami Wrote:  Almost all college and most pro sports are reporting attendance declines, and it's more complex than just because of the growth of television and internet streaming of home games. It's certainly a part of it -- HDTV, bigger home screens and mobile options have made those options way more attractive for people to stay out of the home arena, made worse by the often extortionate pricing for game tickets, parking and concessions that schools must charge to keep up in the college sports arms race.

It's not just a part, it's the biggest part. Older guys like me remember when the only options to follow most games were to be there or to listen live on the radio. Now you can not only choose between several televised games in each time period, but you don't even have to make the time to watch your team's game when it happens, you can DVR the game and watch when it fits your schedule. Or hell, just look at twitter on your phone and someone will post a video clip of every touchdown 30 seconds after the play. And all of that is what drives the calculations about the price of tickets, how much time it takes to drive to the stadium or arena, how much they charge for parking, and how one beer at the arena costs more than the whole six-pack sitting in your fridge.

Fans didn't weigh all of that stuff so much when the only alternative to being there was listening on the radio.

Or how about nobody wants to drive a car, drink a beer, sit in a stadium to begin with.

I don't think its really about the cost for a lot of people as they are tired of the whole experience.

Team loyalty was from a time where other cultural options weren't available.

(12-15-2018 11:56 AM)EvanJ Wrote:  The NCAA has their Men's Basketball average attendance by season going back to 1975-1976. Of the 41 seasons from 1976-1977 through 2016-2017, 2016-2017 had the lowest average at 4,799. 2016-2017 was the tenth consecutive season with a decrease. In 2017-2018, the average increased by 285, which is the best change between consecutive seasons, but 2017-2018 still ranked 47th of 53 seasons. Everything in my post is only for Division I. Does having more games on TV and for free online hurt attendance?

Yes.

Yes, especially if you can watch your own team at home for free.

(12-15-2018 11:56 AM)EvanJ Wrote:  The NCAA has their Men's Basketball average attendance by season going back to 1975-1976. Of the 41 seasons from 1976-1977 through 2016-2017, 2016-2017 had the lowest average at 4,799. 2016-2017 was the tenth consecutive season with a decrease. In 2017-2018, the average increased by 285, which is the best change between consecutive seasons, but 2017-2018 still ranked 47th of 53 seasons. Everything in my post is only for Division I. Does having more games on TV and for free online hurt attendance?

The short answer is yes.
Too much time, too much money, too much trouble especially the older I get.

I think the model of a few die hards going to all of the games needs to be replaced with a model where a lot of people come through the doors over the course of a season.

(12-15-2018 11:56 AM)EvanJ Wrote:  The NCAA has their Men's Basketball average attendance by season going back to 1975-1976. Of the 41 seasons from 1976-1977 through 2016-2017, 2016-2017 had the lowest average at 4,799. 2016-2017 was the tenth consecutive season with a decrease. In 2017-2018, the average increased by 285, which is the best change between consecutive seasons, but 2017-2018 still ranked 47th of 53 seasons. Everything in my post is only for Division I. Does having more games on TV and for free online hurt attendance?

Yes.

But its not the only reason for the decline.

A lot of the surge in TV games is going to end up on the streaming channels in a couple of years probably.

To be found only by the diehard fan that wants to look for it over the voice activated remote.

(12-15-2018 12:29 PM)puck swami Wrote:  Almost all college and most pro sports are reporting attendance declines, and it's more complex than just because of the growth of television and internet streaming of home games. It's certainly a part of it -- HDTV, bigger home screens and mobile options have made those options way more attractive for people to stay out of the home arena, made worse by the often extortionate pricing for game tickets, parking and concessions that schools must charge to keep up in the college sports arms race.

We're also in an era with far more entertainment options competing for our time - both screened entertainment and destination entertainment, coupled with increased time demands from work and family. Students are also increasingly debt-laden, more academically focused and international, which reduces student attendance and engagement.

Honestly, there are too many games on the schedules - a 10% reduction might make these games more desirable.

Outstanding summary of a complex situation.

Everything you’ve said here is true, but I want to give an extra shout-out to the point about “extortionate pricing”. People with median incomes just cannot drop the kind of cash that is required for (say) a B1G or SEC game.

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Its not the cost at all.

-Prices at the B1G and SEC have been high for a couple of decades now.

-The average B1G/SEC alum isn't running a 50,000 a year household. Season tickets are catering to a higher socioeconomic level.

If you get into the G5 they have family pack season tickets for 150-250 but they marketing to a lower socioeconomic level. But attendance is even down at those prices.

CFB is becoming more of a once a year experience like driving in for a baseball game has become than an every week thing, particularly if you are outside of the immediate area.

YES.

(next question?)

I just don't think things are heading in the direction the non-blueblood P5 fans want which is unlimited money and power for P5 members.

Its going in the direction of desperation for the team sports as having sports as part of the TV package becomes more optional. They'll have to enhance post seasons to be able to continue to draw in viewers.

All CFB games on streaming for a little amount of money is where its going. Expanded playoff with broader access is where its going. Maybe the G5 will be making more in the future because they are making more money now but that is about it.

There are few things impacting attendance:

High cost to attend live sports events

Scheduling based on tv slots rather than optimal time for a live audience

Decline in fan interest at schools without large "t-shirt" followings

(12-15-2018 04:21 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(12-15-2018 12:29 PM)puck swami Wrote:  Almost all college and most pro sports are reporting attendance declines, and it's more complex than just because of the growth of television and internet streaming of home games. It's certainly a part of it -- HDTV, bigger home screens and mobile options have made those options way more attractive for people to stay out of the home arena, made worse by the often extortionate pricing for game tickets, parking and concessions that schools must charge to keep up in the college sports arms race.

We're also in an era with far more entertainment options competing for our time - both screened entertainment and destination entertainment, coupled with increased time demands from work and family. Students are also increasingly debt-laden, more academically focused and international, which reduces student attendance and engagement.

Honestly, there are too many games on the schedules - a 10% reduction might make these games more desirable.

Outstanding summary of a complex situation.

Everything you’ve said here is true, but I want to give an extra shout-out to the point about “extortionate pricing”. People with median incomes just cannot drop the kind of cash that is required for (say) a B1G or SEC game.

It's way more than just an "attendance at sports" crisis. It's a societal-wide crisis of any social activities.

Youth sports participation declined from 45% to 37% over the last decade.
Even youth soccer is down 14% in the last three years.

Attendance at bars and nightclubs is way down.

The Boy Scouts are about to declare bankruptcy.

Service clubs (like Kiwanas, Shriners, Elks, Eagles, etc) have been in decline for decades, but they've fallen of a cliff in the last decade.

Attendance in the fine arts has seen a similar decline.

The only thing that has bucked the trend is large one-time events like concerts, state fairs, amusement parks, and voting on election day. In short, anything that requires a steady time commitment is passe.

I blame smartphones. Even when people are out in public with friends, 1/3 of people are still glued to their smartphone. And it's not just young people (although it is concentrated in younger people).

(12-15-2018 04:21 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  I want to give an extra shout-out to the point about “extortionate pricing”. People with median incomes just cannot drop the kind of cash that is required for (say) a B1G or SEC game.

The stadiums that don't sell out every week, even in the Big Ten and SEC, are not charging too much. Indiana and Vanderbilt tickets are not overpriced. It's likely that every place that has a hard time selling out would still have a hard time even if every ticket was $20.

Conversely, Ohio State and Alabama aren't scaring people away even though an end zone ticket for an attractive game is around $100.