(12-15-2018 11:56 AM)EvanJ Wrote:  The NCAA has their Men's Basketball average attendance by season going back to 1975-1976. Of the 41 seasons from 1976-1977 through 2016-2017, 2016-2017 had the lowest average at 4,799. 2016-2017 was the tenth consecutive season with a decrease. In 2017-2018, the average increased by 285, which is the best change between consecutive seasons, but 2017-2018 still ranked 47th of 53 seasons. Everything in my post is only for Division I. Does having more games on TV and for free online hurt attendance?

I honestly dont see how it couldnt. However, the decision to award each conferences NCAA bid to the winner of the end of season tournament rather than the regular season winner certainly is another factor making regular season games MUCH less enticing to ticket buyers.

(12-15-2018 06:23 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-15-2018 04:21 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  I want to give an extra shout-out to the point about “extortionate pricing”. People with median incomes just cannot drop the kind of cash that is required for (say) a B1G or SEC game.

The stadiums that don't sell out every week, even in the Big Ten and SEC, are not charging too much. Indiana and Vanderbilt tickets are not overpriced. It's likely that every place that has a hard time selling out would still have a hard time even if every ticket was $20.

Conversely, Ohio State and Alabama aren't scaring people away even though an end zone ticket for an attractive game is around $100.

It’s not just the tickets, though. It’s the tickets plus parking, plus concessions. Plus — not coming out of your wallet, but still — a huge time commitment. Basically the whole day is shot unless you live extremely close by to the venue.

Finally, I’ve heard student attendance is down the last few years even st places like Ohio State and Alabama. We shall see if that trend carries forward or not. Still a negative factor.

Also, I would be curious about how much the TV size increases impact. As a kid, a 25 inch console TV was the max. I remember when having 50-65 inch projection TV was a luxury. Now a 32 inch is the old 12 inch. 42 inch or bigger is probably in everyone's home now. As I have gotten to the point, where half my life is over, I have thought if would it make sense to buy the 80 inch instead of going to the games. Only reason I go now, is for the tailgating and game day atmosphere.

I like attending games. I enjoy the experience. Normally I make 7-8 AState games in a season. All six at home, one road game, and mostly likely the bowl game.

This year I went to four games. I skipped both weeknight games because I needed to be at work the next day and after I hit 50 I don't bounce back well so I watched those on ESPN2 and ESPNU. I planned to go to Tulsa but just didn't feel like driving almost four hours to see a team that looked lethargic in the previous games so I watched on CBSSN. I can't find airfare for the bowl under $500 so I will watch that on CBSSN as well.

As to basketballl, it has been down for some time and I went from going to every game when I was in Jonesboro, to just going to weekend games, to going every few years.

Counting exhibitions AState will play its 14th game of the season a few hours after football plays in the Arizona Bowl. Nearly half the schedule before I'm done with football season. A significant number of those while school is out so virtually no students attending bringing higher energy to the crowd experience.

Reality is AState was for all intents an purposes eliminated from any possibility of an at-large bid in game four. The only relevance to league play becomes seeding for the conference tournament and the only hope for NCAA post-season play becomes winning three or four games in the conference tournament (depending on seeding). When I was attending all the time or at least frequently we at least had teams that were in the hunt for the NIT at-large bid

Football would benefit in my opinion from going back to an 11 game schedule and hoops better off cutting about four games and starting later.

(12-15-2018 06:23 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-15-2018 04:21 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  I want to give an extra shout-out to the point about “extortionate pricing”. People with median incomes just cannot drop the kind of cash that is required for (say) a B1G or SEC game.

The stadiums that don't sell out every week, even in the Big Ten and SEC, are not charging too much. Indiana and Vanderbilt tickets are not overpriced. It's likely that every place that has a hard time selling out would still have a hard time even if every ticket was $20.

Conversely, Ohio State and Alabama aren't scaring people away even though an end zone ticket for an attractive game is around $100.

Prices shot up in the 90s. A lot of people got priced out when that happened. Prices are scaled out now so the smaller FBS programs keep it family affordable. The prices are hardly anything new.

Its student attendance that has slid off a cliff. They just dont feel obligated to attend.

Declining attendance starts to snowball after a while. People get to the game, see empty seats and dont want to go back.

(12-16-2018 12:49 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(12-15-2018 06:23 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-15-2018 04:21 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  I want to give an extra shout-out to the point about “extortionate pricing”. People with median incomes just cannot drop the kind of cash that is required for (say) a B1G or SEC game.

The stadiums that don't sell out every week, even in the Big Ten and SEC, are not charging too much. Indiana and Vanderbilt tickets are not overpriced. It's likely that every place that has a hard time selling out would still have a hard time even if every ticket was $20.

Conversely, Ohio State and Alabama aren't scaring people away even though an end zone ticket for an attractive game is around $100.

Prices shot up in the 90s. A lot of people got priced out when that happened. Prices are scaled out now so the smaller FBS programs keep it family affordable. The prices are hardly anything new.

Its student attendance that has slid off a cliff. They just dont feel obligated to attend.

Declining attendance starts to snowball after a while. People get to the game, see empty seats and dont want to go back.

Piece I did almost two years ago on ticket prices.
https://247sports.com/college/arkansas-s...-74934311/

there gotta be 100 schools that moved to div 1 in 40 yrs
i would think there draging atten down

Baseball (MLB) downsized stadiums to fill them better and worked on the experience. The NFL is trending that way too, no more 70,000 seat stadiums, 55,000 with 10,000 of those some form of luxury seats seems to be more ideal. Perhaps the bigger colleges should consider that. The small guys have no money to do that.

On TV, it's a two edged sword. But my view is, if it's not on TV or games are not regularly on TV then it means it's not important and I would not likely ever attend. But if it is on TV then it's desirable. That is where the experience of the event, the stadium and everything comes in.

TV viewership also has a capacity limit, which I think is 40-50 teams. Beyond that you lose the audience with too many games and teams to follow. You cannot convince anyone other than the most degenerate of gamblers that Ohio U vs. Tulsa matters to anyone.

(12-16-2018 03:14 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  You cannot convince anyone other than the most degenerate of gamblers that Ohio U vs. Tulsa matters to anyone.

Maybe it will matter to other gamblers once legal gambling is more widespread here. Gamblers overseas bet on third-division English football teams and pro tennis matches in the most minor tournaments involving players you've never heard of. So some of them will bet on Ohio-Tulsa if sports betting becomes as easy for everyone as opening an app on your phone or buying a lottery ticket at 7-11.

(12-15-2018 08:18 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Also, I would be curious about how much the TV size increases impact. As a kid, a 25 inch console TV was the max. I remember when having 50-65 inch projection TV was a luxury. Now a 32 inch is the old 12 inch. 42 inch or bigger is probably in everyone's home now. As I have gotten to the point, where half my life is over, I have thought if would it make sense to buy the 80 inch instead of going to the games. Only reason I go now, is for the tailgating and game day atmosphere.

Good point. I buy ECU season tickets event though I live 6 hours away. Unless it is a game I really care about I tend to stay home. I like to go to a game every once in a while to link up with friends and tailgate. Staying home and watching the games on a 80 inch with theater seats for free is nice considering driving 12 hours round trip, two night minimum hotel stay for game weekends, tailgating misc crap takes the total for me to attend each home game to at least $600. Sadly my man cave is equipped with an 80 inch tv and a 65 inch so I have two games going on and then I hook my lap top up to one of them to pick up games from ESPN3 stream that I want to check out. Weather in the man cave is always 68 degrees, cold beer is dirt cheap and uber eats brings what ever I want for the tailgate menu

(12-15-2018 05:09 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  There are few things impacting attendance:

High cost to attend live sports events

Scheduling based on tv slots rather than optimal time for a live audience

Decline in fan interest at schools without large "t-shirt" followings

For me the impact of television on my attendance is due to only one thing, the plethora of TV timeouts. They have grown to be so long and so plentiful that the game experience is completely shot and the time needed to attend has grown past my attention span.

(12-15-2018 05:15 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(12-15-2018 04:21 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(12-15-2018 12:29 PM)puck swami Wrote:  Almost all college and most pro sports are reporting attendance declines, and it's more complex than just because of the growth of television and internet streaming of home games. It's certainly a part of it -- HDTV, bigger home screens and mobile options have made those options way more attractive for people to stay out of the home arena, made worse by the often extortionate pricing for game tickets, parking and concessions that schools must charge to keep up in the college sports arms race.

We're also in an era with far more entertainment options competing for our time - both screened entertainment and destination entertainment, coupled with increased time demands from work and family. Students are also increasingly debt-laden, more academically focused and international, which reduces student attendance and engagement.

Honestly, there are too many games on the schedules - a 10% reduction might make these games more desirable.

Outstanding summary of a complex situation.

Everything you’ve said here is true, but I want to give an extra shout-out to the point about “extortionate pricing”. People with median incomes just cannot drop the kind of cash that is required for (say) a B1G or SEC game.

It's way more than just an "attendance at sports" crisis. It's a societal-wide crisis of any social activities.

Youth sports participation declined from 45% to 37% over the last decade.
Even youth soccer is down 14% in the last three years.

Attendance at bars and nightclubs is way down.

The Boy Scouts are about to declare bankruptcy.

Service clubs (like Kiwanas, Shriners, Elks, Eagles, etc) have been in decline for decades, but they've fallen of a cliff in the last decade.

Attendance in the fine arts has seen a similar decline.

The only thing that has bucked the trend is large one-time events like concerts, state fairs, amusement parks, and voting on election day. In short, anything that requires a steady time commitment is passe.

I blame smartphones. Even when people are out in public with friends, 1/3 of people are still glued to their smartphone. And it's not just young people (although it is concentrated in younger people).

I couldn't agree more.

(12-16-2018 01:30 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(12-16-2018 12:49 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(12-15-2018 06:23 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-15-2018 04:21 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  I want to give an extra shout-out to the point about “extortionate pricing”. People with median incomes just cannot drop the kind of cash that is required for (say) a B1G or SEC game.

The stadiums that don't sell out every week, even in the Big Ten and SEC, are not charging too much. Indiana and Vanderbilt tickets are not overpriced. It's likely that every place that has a hard time selling out would still have a hard time even if every ticket was $20.

Conversely, Ohio State and Alabama aren't scaring people away even though an end zone ticket for an attractive game is around $100.

Prices shot up in the 90s. A lot of people got priced out when that happened. Prices are scaled out now so the smaller FBS programs keep it family affordable. The prices are hardly anything new.

Its student attendance that has slid off a cliff. They just dont feel obligated to attend.

Declining attendance starts to snowball after a while. People get to the game, see empty seats and dont want to go back.

Piece I did almost two years ago on ticket prices.
https://247sports.com/college/arkansas-s...-74934311/

Yes good work. A huge increase in price and this is just for the regular ticket not the premium sections which have come in vouge the last couple of decades.

The milking for big games is happening in the G5. Toledo is charging $70 for some of its games and Kansas at Ohio last year was $55 dollars walk up. Even the MAC has priced itself out but they'll still slip in a $20 family ticket for those who can't afford the regular tickets.

My Ohio season tickets (4 tickets) were $648 and I attend a game a year but it allows me to lock in my seats. The school allows 2, 3 and 5 month installment plans if renewing early. I did three installment payments of $216 which is less than a car payment.

I had the family pack last year $240 (4 tickets) but had complaints about the seats being too high up and the cursing of fans around me was a turnoff. That price can even be done in 3 installments.

I don't think most P5 ticket packages offer flexible price points for those who need them. That would explain the huge attendance drop offs and price reductions at some of the P5s where fans are tired of shelling out a 1,000 for a 4 or 5 win football team.

The T-Shirt fan is dying out. B1G/SEC season tickets are bought by well to do alums. MAC/CUSA tickets are bought by locals as an affordable cost/time alternative.

i remember my season tickets for Penn FB
cost me 5 bucks for my daughter in the 90's

It may be part of the problem, but price of the product at the stadium whether college or pro is the major problem. College and pro tickets are $50 to $150 dollars depending on the game. Beer at stadiums especially pro stadiums is $7 to $12 dollars. Feed your family at the stadium and your looking at a minimum of $10 a head every time you go to the concession stand. Flip on parking $25 to $60 dollars plus gas and maybe a hotel if your out of town and you have quite a bill for one day.

Family of 5 for a game day experience $250, tickets, $35 parking, $30 beer, $50 concession times 2 = $415 a game without a hotel.

Stay home out of the weather, buy a case of beer, a case of soda for the kids, tailgate food for the living room, and your lucky if you spend a $100 bucks for the day.

I use to go to 3 Rutgers games, a Temple game at the LINC, a South Carolina game, a local FCS game, and a pro game for a total of 7 games a year . Now I go to 1 game month for 3 or 4 games a season with the season ending pro game optional depending on family travel for the holiday season. The rest of the football season is spent in the TV room with 7 HD TV's going from noon to midnight if that's how I want to spend my sunny or rainy day fall / winter Saturdays without the crowds and travel. I still love the gameday tailgating experience at the stadium but as the family grew like others I had to find a way to save on that experience as the price of the product kept sky rocketing at the stadium past the increases in personal disposable income and family member growth.

(12-16-2018 06:21 AM)ShoreBuc Wrote:  

(12-15-2018 08:18 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Also, I would be curious about how much the TV size increases impact. As a kid, a 25 inch console TV was the max. I remember when having 50-65 inch projection TV was a luxury. Now a 32 inch is the old 12 inch. 42 inch or bigger is probably in everyone's home now. As I have gotten to the point, where half my life is over, I have thought if would it make sense to buy the 80 inch instead of going to the games. Only reason I go now, is for the tailgating and game day atmosphere.

Good point. I buy ECU season tickets event though I live 6 hours away. Unless it is a game I really care about I tend to stay home. I like to go to a game every once in a while to link up with friends and tailgate. Staying home and watching the games on a 80 inch with theater seats for free is nice considering driving 12 hours round trip, two night minimum hotel stay for game weekends, tailgating misc crap takes the total for me to attend each home game to at least $600. Sadly my man cave is equipped with an 80 inch tv and a 65 inch so I have two games going on and then I hook my lap top up to one of them to pick up games from ESPN3 stream that I want to check out. Weather in the man cave is always 68 degrees, cold beer is dirt cheap and uber eats brings what ever I want for the tailgate menu

ShoreBuc, totally get it. It must be a be a Christmas Miracle, a Pirate and Wolfpacker agree. I will say you hit a homerun with the new football coach. Have a Blessed Christmas and Happy New Year!

I think it can help it in a certain way for local people -- "Our team is on TV, I want to go to one of these" when they never would be a big fan. BUT, I do think overall it's negative effect outweighs it. Higher comparative ticket prices + huge TVs makes those a good drive away not to want to come.

That said though, it brings in money. Kind of like the MAC Tues/Wed football games late conference season. Horrible attendance; makes the MAC look bad. But it brings more money & exposure. And it keeps the interest going to some degree indefinitely -- where few-televised games would allow trends to come & go, and possibly for mid-majors and below in many areas, for it to die out some.

I think what Will Really Hurt actually Going to games, in the future:

A Super-Smart TV affecting what you're watching. Watching your team play on ESPN3-level channel with hardly any fans in a quiet atmosphere? Solution! Turn on "Audience Improvising" -- and suddenly you have fans in the stands making tons of noise when your team scores, and rooting them on! And with this switch saved to On, on most TVs and in sports bars... when you do actually go to the game, you go "Wait, there's nobody here." :)

(12-16-2018 11:01 AM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(12-16-2018 06:21 AM)ShoreBuc Wrote:  

(12-15-2018 08:18 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Also, I would be curious about how much the TV size increases impact. As a kid, a 25 inch console TV was the max. I remember when having 50-65 inch projection TV was a luxury. Now a 32 inch is the old 12 inch. 42 inch or bigger is probably in everyone's home now. As I have gotten to the point, where half my life is over, I have thought if would it make sense to buy the 80 inch instead of going to the games. Only reason I go now, is for the tailgating and game day atmosphere.

Good point. I buy ECU season tickets event though I live 6 hours away. Unless it is a game I really care about I tend to stay home. I like to go to a game every once in a while to link up with friends and tailgate. Staying home and watching the games on a 80 inch with theater seats for free is nice considering driving 12 hours round trip, two night minimum hotel stay for game weekends, tailgating misc crap takes the total for me to attend each home game to at least $600. Sadly my man cave is equipped with an 80 inch tv and a 65 inch so I have two games going on and then I hook my lap top up to one of them to pick up games from ESPN3 stream that I want to check out. Weather in the man cave is always 68 degrees, cold beer is dirt cheap and uber eats brings what ever I want for the tailgate menu

ShoreBuc, totally get it. It must be a be a Christmas Miracle, a Pirate and Wolfpacker agree. I will say you hit a homerun with the new football coach. Have a Blessed Christmas and Happy New Year!

I found over the last 30 years of watching ECU Football that ECU fans and NCST fans actually have a lot in common. Thanks ! I am excited about Coach Houston and his staff full of former Pirate Coaches. The last 3 years have been a self inflicted nightmare.
Merry Christmas ! Happy New Years and oh yeah....UNC Sucks !!

(12-16-2018 04:28 PM)ShoreBuc Wrote:  

(12-16-2018 11:01 AM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(12-16-2018 06:21 AM)ShoreBuc Wrote:  

(12-15-2018 08:18 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Also, I would be curious about how much the TV size increases impact. As a kid, a 25 inch console TV was the max. I remember when having 50-65 inch projection TV was a luxury. Now a 32 inch is the old 12 inch. 42 inch or bigger is probably in everyone's home now. As I have gotten to the point, where half my life is over, I have thought if would it make sense to buy the 80 inch instead of going to the games. Only reason I go now, is for the tailgating and game day atmosphere.

Good point. I buy ECU season tickets event though I live 6 hours away. Unless it is a game I really care about I tend to stay home. I like to go to a game every once in a while to link up with friends and tailgate. Staying home and watching the games on a 80 inch with theater seats for free is nice considering driving 12 hours round trip, two night minimum hotel stay for game weekends, tailgating misc crap takes the total for me to attend each home game to at least $600. Sadly my man cave is equipped with an 80 inch tv and a 65 inch so I have two games going on and then I hook my lap top up to one of them to pick up games from ESPN3 stream that I want to check out. Weather in the man cave is always 68 degrees, cold beer is dirt cheap and uber eats brings what ever I want for the tailgate menu

ShoreBuc, totally get it. It must be a be a Christmas Miracle, a Pirate and Wolfpacker agree. I will say you hit a homerun with the new football coach. Have a Blessed Christmas and Happy New Year!

I found over the last 30 years of watching ECU Football that ECU fans and NCST fans actually have a lot in common. Thanks ! I am excited about Coach Houston and his staff full of former Pirate Coaches. The last 3 years have been a self inflicted nightmare.
Merry Christmas ! Happy New Years and oh yeah....UNC Sucks !!

Totally agree. Hopefully the new AD and Coaches will right the ship.

It’s a generational thing and it’ll get worse......even for top P5 programs.

We’ve already heard coches complain about student attendance. Younger Gen Xers and Millennials are drown in student debt after graduation. The generations before them had disposable income to spend it on donations, season tickets, road trips to watch their team play and attend a bowl game. What could be some of that disposable income is now used to pay student loans. Cost of living got more expensive and wages have been stagnant. That doesn’t mean they don’t support their alma mater, they just can’t afford it. Also, technology has made it easier to watch the game in the confort of your own home. 65” 4K screens beats dealing with traffic, rude fans, bad weather, expensive food and drinks, etc.

We are already seeing some programs downsizing their stadiums and offering more amenities such as club suites, bars, lounges, catering, etc. That’s where we are heading. More games on tv, generational attitudes toward college athletics, massive student debt, younger parents not interested in having their sons play football among other things are and will the reason why attendance is declining. Another factor is younger people won’t put up with the haves and have nots of college football. If you’re over 30 years old, the status quo might be acceptable but a current college or high school student is seriously questioning why UCF which has been 25-0 in two years can’t qualify for a CFP spot decided on BS metrics by dinosaurs in a closed room just because they don’t belong in a special, privileged, traditional group.