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(11-29-2018 11:33 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  A. We were down by double digits over half of the game and didn’t even have lead until the 6 minute mark in the game.

Vcu couldn’t throw it in the ocean to end the game, going 0-11 from 3, but to act like they didn’t control much of that game is absurd and shows a complete lack of understanding of the game of basketball.

B. I enjoyed beating Vcu very much, dealing those losers a sorely needed dose of reality is always fantastic.

C. I’m just being honest as always, that was not a well played basketball game and neither of those teams is ncaa tourney caliber.

Sorry if reality isn’t somewhere our fans want to live but I won’t apologize for having a fact based opinion.

Some of you need to grow thicker skin.

You could argue that we were “thoroughly dominated” until the point we were down by 17. After that moment in time, the thorough domination disappeared. We then turned that domination into us being better than them. That’s how you win by 10 after being down by 17. I know you like to be honest, but this one is a little strong Razor.


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Before the game…………

This will hands down be the most talented team Rhoades has ever coached in his entire career while I’m not sure it’s in the top 3 of teams Jones has had at odu.

Last year’s team and Freeman’s teams were definitely more talented and possibly the year before last as well (debatable).

They are one point (and a crappy officiating decision) away from being 6-0.

It’s still early but saying they aren’t good is inaccurate. They’re not great, but I think they’d qualify as good right now.

They are 58 in rpi and 75 in sos (for those who care so deeply about that) per real time rpi.

After the Game:

It’s fine against lesser teams like Vcu, it’s still not going to get us wins against ncaa tourney caliber teams.

And make no mistake, Vcu is not an ncaa tourney team this year.

I was extremely unimpressed with both teams. That was NOT a well played basketball game despite the passion involved, it was ugly to watch.

Another year of mediocrity ensues but at least we didn’t lose to Vcu this year.

(11-29-2018 11:33 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  A. We were down by double digits over half of the game and didn’t even have lead until the 6 minute mark in the game.

Vcu couldn’t throw it in the ocean to end the game, going 0-11 from 3, but to act like they didn’t control much of that game is absurd and shows a complete lack of understanding of the game of basketball.

B. I enjoyed beating Vcu very much, dealing those losers a sorely needed dose of reality is always fantastic.

C. I’m just being honest as always, that was not a well played basketball game and neither of those teams is ncaa tourney caliber.

Sorry if reality isn’t somewhere our fans want to live but I won’t apologize for having a fact based opinion.

Some of you need to grow thicker skin.

In defense of the Razor, I think questioning someone's fanhood on here is wrong and uncalled for. If one is posting on this forum and they aren't a complete troll, they already in the top whatever percentile of die-hardness.

Having said that...

"Shows a complete lack of understanding of basketball" you are actually insulting yourself with this one. Curious if you ever admit to being wrong on things - probably not after hurling that insult into the air. There is absolutely no way we were thoroughly dominated for most of the game. Our signature scoring drought is in part due to our own mishap regardless of the opponent. While they were fine on defense they weren't dominating. They turned the ball over 14 times compared to our 9. That is not domination. Just because they miraculously hit every shot in the first part of the first half does not mean they dominated. They regressed back to their normal selves and couldn't buy a bucket down the stretch.

If you really want to make the argument they were "dominating" while they were pouring on their lead, it ends 2:30 left in the 1st half. Surely not "most of the game." That's when our comeback began.

And nobody in this thread has suggested we are getting an at large. You can chill. I think everyone here gets it.

(11-30-2018 07:53 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Before the game…………

This will hands down be the most talented team Rhoades has ever coached in his entire career while I’m not sure it’s in the top 3 of teams Jones has had at odu.

Last year’s team and Freeman’s teams were definitely more talented and possibly the year before last as well (debatable).

They are one point (and a crappy officiating decision) away from being 6-0.

It’s still early but saying they aren’t good is inaccurate. They’re not great, but I think they’d qualify as good right now.

They are 58 in rpi and 75 in sos (for those who care so deeply about that) per real time rpi.

After the Game:

It’s fine against lesser teams like Vcu, it’s still not going to get us wins against ncaa tourney caliber teams.

And make no mistake, Vcu is not an ncaa tourney team this year.

I was extremely unimpressed with both teams. That was NOT a well played basketball game despite the passion involved, it was ugly to watch.

Another year of mediocrity ensues but at least we didn’t lose to Vcu this year.

Exactly keyboard pro he is

We were dominated in the 1st half, no way around that. To his credit, Jones made adjustments and they worked. VCU was outhustled and outcoached in the 2nd half. In fact, they looked like trash. Whether it ultimately turns out that they are a good team or not is to be determined. Going into the game, they looked like a good team. All of our players stepped up their game, did what they needed to do, and made shots down the stretch. I believe this is the first time that has happened in a big rivalry game against a team rated better than us since Freeman's junior year. It is a start and that as well as the play of our youngsters is cause for a bit of cautious optimism. We still need to peak in March and win the CUSA tournament. Due to our performance in the Bahamas, I don't even think we get in if we run the table through the rest of the regular season... and there will be more bumps in the road. I am very pleased with the win, the kids stepping it up, and yes, the coaching, but as with after the VT football win, let's see how the rest of the season goes. Though it has been awhile (2015 NIT) since I have departed an ODU game in any sport (I was not at the VT game) with a similar level of pride and love of being a fan, this is one data point.

(11-30-2018 08:21 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  We were dominated in the 1st half, no way around that.

It is usually unhelpful to get into semantic arguments on an internet forum. People post in haste, and may not consider the nuance behind their words. But this instance is the exception.

Dominate: vb: to exert determining or guiding influence on another.

It may have looked different on t.v., but in person there was no point during that miserable first half at which I ever felt that VCU was controlling the game. As sickening as it was to watch, we were in control of what happened to us during that first half, on both ends.

We chose to play at the fast pace, they didn't force that. Our offensive woes were due entirely to our bad (and I mean embarrassingly bad) shooting, not because they were making us take bad shots. On defense, we were the ones dictating play, forcing them to take long threes or attempt a desperate last-second charge at the basket. Many of those long threes went in during the first half, and lots of fouls were called on us during those flailing drives (mostly by Evans). Fortunately, that mostly stopped happening in the second half.

And I really don't think that Jones even made any significant adjustments. I will fully admit to being one of the posters that Razor can legitimately accuse of not knowing much about college basketball, but if there was a significant adjustment in our method of play between the first and second halves, it was too subtle for me to notice. It was more that our guys started playing like they are capable of playing.

Razor does have one good and important point: the instances of us being able to put together a full 40-minute game of solid play is very rare under Coach Jones. That should be a concern for him. I expect it is.

(11-30-2018 09:22 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(11-30-2018 08:21 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  We were dominated in the 1st half, no way around that.

It is usually unhelpful to get into semantic arguments on an internet forum. People post in haste, and may not consider the nuance behind their words. But this instance is the exception.

Dominate: vb: to exert determining or guiding influence on another.

It may have looked different on t.v., but in person there was no point during that miserable first half at which I ever felt that VCU was controlling the game. As sickening as it was to watch, we were in control of what happened to us during that first half, on both ends.

We chose to play at the fast pace, they didn't force that. Our offensive woes were due entirely to our bad (and I mean embarrassingly bad) shooting, not because they were making us take bad shots. On defense, we were the ones dictating play, forcing them to take long threes or attempt a desperate last-second charge at the basket. Many of those long threes went in during the first half, and lots of fouls were called on us during those flailing drives (mostly by Evans). Fortunately, that mostly stopped happening in the second half.

And I really don't think that Jones even made any significant adjustments. I will fully admit to being one of the posters that Razor can legitimately accuse of not knowing much about college basketball, but if there was a significant adjustment in our method of play between the first and second halves, it was too subtle for me to notice. It was more that our guys started playing like they are capable of playing.

Razor does have one good and important point: the instances of us being able to put together a full 40-minute game of solid play is very rare under Coach Jones. That should be a concern for him. I expect it is.

We have a stretch every season where we go on a run of 40-minute games. For example last year:

Start run 2nd half @ Southern Miss 38-24

@ Louisiana Tech
W82-69

vs UTSA
W100-62

vs UTEP
W82-33

@ Marshall
W84-79

During this stretch, we played well enough to win NCAA tournament games.

Unfortunately, since the 2014 nonconference slate, none of those games have been particularly important. Not that conference games are unimportant, but they didn't really have postseason implications. It isn't so much that we aren't peaking under Jones, we are just peaking at the wrong time.

edit: the game I watched in person it sure did seem like a domination in the 1st half. My son and I considered leaving it was so bad, but I still had a slight buzz and didn't want to chance driving.

This game turned on one thing. When VCU was making baskets and was able to setup their token pressure we could not score, which kept us from setting up our defense and made it easier for them to score. Once we started getting stops and could get into our offensive sets earlier, we started scoring, were able to set up our defense and they couldn't score. We won the battle of determination and out willed them to take control of the game.

I. Love. Wade. That dude brings intangibles that I have not seen at ODU in a long time.

X was fantastic in the second half. Wish he/JJ could figure out how to get him to play with confidence, and attack on the offensive end more often.

Dickens is capable for being dominant for about 2 minutes a game right now. When he/JJ figure out how to get him more involved, he is going to be fantastic.

BJ was awful for a lot of the game, but figured out how to make the plays we needed down the stretch. That is an admirable trait. We do need more consistency from him though.

Like BJ, Caver was awful for 30 minutes, but pulled it together and was great for the last 10. He actually dribbled the ball for 21 seconds of the 30 second shot clock on one possession, and we were not stalling. He has got to get better at keeping the ball moving. Far too many times, the ball was moving well, then it hit Caver and everything stopped.

Elbert is a nice guy for 10-12 minutes off the bench. He can come in and play hard for a couple minutes at a time, and be dominant around the rim, and make an occasional post move.

(11-30-2018 08:56 AM)757ODU Wrote:  I am not calling for Carver to be completely removed from the rotation. I just think the minutes played need to decrease a little. Giles pointed out that they are, and he's right. My intention is not to insult Aaron, because he is a great person and I think a great leader. All great teams have great role players. Aaron is a great role player. I don't think it is unreasonable for me to expect a D1 basketball player to be better offensively. I am not asking him to average 10 points per game, but he has to be better around the basket. I am positive AC will see where he needs to improve throughout the year, and he will work on it daily.


Edit: Why in the hell do people on this board always feel like posters are attacking players or "calling them out"? If we cannot come here to express opinions about the game and players in that game, what the hell are we here for?

Addressing your edit - this post you just made is very reasonable and something worthy of discussion. Your initial post about AC involved repetitive punctuation (??? !!!) and seemed like you were super infuriated with the guy despite playing less than a half of basketball. In his limited minutes, he was still better than Robinson. I'm not suggesting that will always be the case, but it was last night. There's more to basketball than points, and I know you get that.

It's all good, I just took your initial post the wrong way I guess.

(11-30-2018 09:55 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  This game turned on one thing. When VCU was making baskets and was able to setup their token pressure we could not score, which kept us from setting up our defense and made it easier for them to score. Once we started getting stops and could get into our offensive sets earlier, we started scoring, were able to set up our defense and they couldn't score. We won the battle of determination and out willed them to take control of the game.

I. Love. Wade. That dude brings intangibles that I have not seen at ODU in a long time.

X was fantastic in the second half. Wish he/JJ could figure out how to get him to play with confidence, and attack on the offensive end more often.

Dickens is capable for being dominant for about 2 minutes a game right now. When he/JJ figure out how to get him more involved, he is going to be fantastic.

BJ was awful for a lot of the game, but figured out how to make the plays we needed down the stretch. That is an admirable trait. We do need more consistency from him though.

Like BJ, Caver was awful for 30 minutes, but pulled it together and was great for the last 10. He actually dribbled the ball for 21 seconds of the 30 second shot clock on one possession, and we were not stalling. He has got to get better at keeping the ball moving. Far too many times, the ball was moving well, then it hit Caver and everything stopped.

Elbert is a nice guy for 10-12 minutes off the bench. He can come in and play hard for a couple minutes at a time, and be dominant around the rim, and make an occasional post move.

VCU press had nothing to do with the game changing. But They were gassed at the end from pressing all game. And VCU bench is not that good.
But the game changed in the first half not the second. VCU only scored 5 points the last 5 minutes and that mostly was the lucky Gilmore bank 3. We were down 32-15 with 3 min to go but started getting stops. BJ hit a 3 and Wade a running 2 to cut it to 12. We had a shot to get it to 10. Everyone I’m around at that point felt we were coming back second half and we starting taking control of the game. I asked JJMonarch if he thought we were going to win and he said YES - we were controlling the game going into the locker

Edit BJ and Caver were not awful for 30 min, that’s a little strong

MB makes some good points. I didn't get the feeling that VCU was dominating us, I got the feeling that "if they stop hitting these ridiculous 3s, we are going to be in good shape." Luckily, they regressed to the mean over the course of the game.

Same thoughts expect I don't think Caver was that bad. There were rough patches and he couldn't knock down 3s, but he was drawing fouls and getting to the line. I remember the possession that he dribbled the ball way too much on, I'm not sure what happened there..maybe VCU changed up the defense and we didn't know how to react? All it took was one basket from him to go down and he was back to himself.

Dickens has crazy good talent. We have to remember he has played very little at the college level. And he certainly needs to get much better at rebounding, but he's a terror on defense and has a nice looking midrange game.

Robinson has struggled. He needs to be more aggressive downlow, he's not going to face stronger defenders, just go up.

(11-30-2018 10:01 AM)odu09 Wrote:  

(11-30-2018 08:56 AM)757ODU Wrote:  I am not calling for Carver to be completely removed from the rotation. I just think the minutes played need to decrease a little. Giles pointed out that they are, and he's right. My intention is not to insult Aaron, because he is a great person and I think a great leader. All great teams have great role players. Aaron is a great role player. I don't think it is unreasonable for me to expect a D1 basketball player to be better offensively. I am not asking him to average 10 points per game, but he has to be better around the basket. I am positive AC will see where he needs to improve throughout the year, and he will work on it daily.


Edit: Why in the hell do people on this board always feel like posters are attacking players or "calling them out"? If we cannot come here to express opinions about the game and players in that game, what the hell are we here for?

Addressing your edit - this post you just made is very reasonable and something worthy of discussion. Your initial post about AC involved repetitive punctuation (??? !!!) and seemed like you were super infuriated with the guy despite playing less than a half of basketball. In his limited minutes, he was still better than Robinson. I'm not suggesting that will always be the case, but it was last night. There's more to basketball than points, and I know you get that.

It's all good, I just took your initial post the wrong way I guess.

I was really frustrated with the failed put back. He was wide open and clanged off the back rim. That was awful. Also, he can be better than Robinson, but in my original post, I was calling for the majority of minutes being the 4 guard lineup. Starting to see some of that. Make no mistake, Aaron Carver is very important to this team...on and off the court. Leadership is one of the most important qualities in basketball and he has that. He will be a phenomenal captain next year.

Not necessarily specific to AC and the discussion here, but I have this thought often as I watch ODU and college BB generally. When I see people who struggle to shoot, especially around the rim, it appears the issue is lack of touch.

I don't understand why those people are not encouraged to use the backboard? Hitting the right spot on the square seems like an equalizer even when your touch isn't perfect. Getting it perfectly over the rim without using backboard reduces any margin for error.

As such, someone like AC could benefit from the backboard as he takes those shots close in. Believe it would help from a confidence perspective as well.

Full disclosure: Coaching background limited to 4 years (two for each) for son and daughter's grade school teams (7th/8th and 5th/6th respectively). In all four years wife volunteered me while I was at work, since no one else stepped up at the kickoff meetings. Which is to say, not qualified to comment on this thread. :)

The coaching discussion aside, Carver missed that easy put back early in the game ( 1st possession I think) but he probably makes that 9 out of 10 times. That play reminded me of the year we lost to Butler in the opening round of the NCAA by 1 or 2 (can't remember) when they put back a missed shot at the end of the game. Anyway, I think it was the 2nd half and we were on a run playing well and Frank Hassell had an easy put back off a fast break attempt. It was similar to Carver's miss the other night. His clanked off the run as well and he could have easily slammed it down. But in the heat of the moment when you have a split second to make that decision sometimes it just doesn't work out. Carver doesn't have to practice those shots as someone mentioned and I would bet Hassel has replayed that shot 1000 times in his head. Crazy stuff like that happens. You just have to play through a miss like that and get it right the next time. By the way, I coach every game I watch from my seat at the Ted. Not sure I ever made a bad decision.

(11-30-2018 12:53 AM)Petey Hodge Wrote:  

(11-29-2018 07:39 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  https://mobile.twitter.com/7CitiesHoopta...9018017793

Best clip available.

7CitiesHooptape... was more like a sextape.

Sheesh, that was orgasmic in real time!

It never gets old. I love watching the Ted erupt.

(11-30-2018 05:57 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  

(11-30-2018 12:53 AM)Petey Hodge Wrote:  

(11-29-2018 07:39 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  https://mobile.twitter.com/7CitiesHoopta...9018017793

Best clip available.

7CitiesHooptape... was more like a sextape.

Sheesh, that was orgasmic in real time!

It never gets old. I love watching the Ted erupt.

Sweet ! Thanks for Sharing. Reminds me of Isaiah Hunter dunk against them in the CAA championship game.

I’m in that clip.

https://goo.gl/images/nri5A8

BJ and Ahmad joined the club with Baze!!! Lit the Ted!!! I remember that game well against ur! Go Monarchs!!!

https://mobile.twitter.com/7CitiesHoopta...3871532032

Shouldn’t forget this one. Critical turning point.

(12-01-2018 12:11 AM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  https://mobile.twitter.com/7CitiesHoopta...3871532032

Shouldn’t forget this one. Critical turning point.