(11-13-2018 10:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 10:33 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 08:34 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  Get the feds in there and question people under oath. Especially the ones that actually "found" the boxes of ballots. Investigation wouldn't last long.

No. Outright fraud makes it criminal. Eighty thousand votes appeared out of thin air. Takes these fraud counties weeks to do what every other county does in 8-10 hours. Won’t let observers in. What we are seeing is it takes time to fake 80K ballots. This isn’t a few irrelevant Russian Facebook accounts—this is what it looks like when real honest to goodness election theft is going down.

Can you please name any evidence that there has been any ballot stuffing in the last 20 years? Even 1000 votes, much less 80,000?

The people in Broward County can't even operate a vote tabulation machine properly. I'd be stunned if they could pull off 80k of faked ballots, which would be UNHEARD of in this country.

And if they were faking ballots, they most certainly would have done it earlier.

You know, I fend off hacking allegations all the time from Democrats accusing Republicans of that. Its next to impossible to do much in that regard. Even in big counties, and even if the county clerk is incompetent, there are too many controls. Voter suppression can be real. But vote rigging is VERY rare. And vote hacking is even more rare.

Remember, each precinct has a REPUBLICAN and a Democrat observer. I've been an election judge in a GOP district. I got a copy of the election results of each machine and had to sign every provisional ballot. I also got a list of all the provisional ballots too.

If anything, her incompetence helped Scott. And furthermore, the additional scrutiny that you guys are heaping on Broward is probably helping Nelson, simply by make sure that the ballots are counted.

By the way, the only way this flips is if a poor ballot design resulted in the original vote total being off because the machines didn't read the ballots correctly originally. If that flips the election, you still have the ballots, you'll have a HAND recount, and each one of those ballots has to match hash totals.

I'm sure there is theoretically a way to steal an election, but don't you think that they'd steal the Governor's race too if they were to bother to do so? Either way, Dr Snipes doesn't appear to be competent enough to pull a massive ballot stuffing operation that would escape discovery using even the most basic scrutiny.

Exactly. What’s happening in those counties is unheard of. Never happen before. Frankly, I think it’s happened before—but never on this scale by a single county. Zero fear of being caught. Absolutely chilling.

(11-13-2018 11:23 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 10:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 10:33 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 08:34 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  Get the feds in there and question people under oath. Especially the ones that actually "found" the boxes of ballots. Investigation wouldn't last long.

No. Outright fraud makes it criminal. Eighty thousand votes appeared out of thin air. Takes these fraud counties weeks to do what every other county does in 8-10 hours. Won’t let observers in. What we are seeing is it takes time to fake 80K ballots. This isn’t a few irrelevant Russian Facebook accounts—this is what it looks like when real honest to goodness election theft is going down.

Can you please name any evidence that there has been any ballot stuffing in the last 20 years? Even 1000 votes, much less 80,000?

The people in Broward County can't even operate a vote tabulation machine properly. I'd be stunned if they could pull off 80k of faked ballots, which would be UNHEARD of in this country.

And if they were faking ballots, they most certainly would have done it earlier.

You know, I fend off hacking allegations all the time from Democrats accusing Republicans of that. Its next to impossible to do much in that regard. Even in big counties, and even if the county clerk is incompetent, there are too many controls. Voter suppression can be real. But vote rigging is VERY rare. And vote hacking is even more rare.

Remember, each precinct has a REPUBLICAN and a Democrat observer. I've been an election judge in a GOP district. I got a copy of the election results of each machine and had to sign every provisional ballot. I also got a list of all the provisional ballots too.

If anything, her incompetence helped Scott. And furthermore, the additional scrutiny that you guys are heaping on Broward is probably helping Nelson, simply by make sure that the ballots are counted.

By the way, the only way this flips is if a poor ballot design resulted in the original vote total being off because the machines didn't read the ballots correctly originally. If that flips the election, you still have the ballots, you'll have a HAND recount, and each one of those ballots has to match hash totals.

I'm sure there is theoretically a way to steal an election, but don't you think that they'd steal the Governor's race too if they were to bother to do so? Either way, Dr Snipes doesn't appear to be competent enough to pull a massive ballot stuffing operation that would escape discovery using even the most basic scrutiny.

Exactly. What’s happening in those counties is unheard of. Never happen before. Frankly, I think it’s happened before—but never on this scale by a single county. Zero fear of being caught. Absolutely chilling.

Amazing. According to you, they're risking long prison sentences and didn't even bother to make sure the stuffing would even be enough for Nelson to win and wasn't enough to help Gillum. And apparently, per the far right, not only did the Broward officials have at least a dozen people in on the fraud, but now you're arguing that Miami Dade and or Palm Beach County has the same thing going on?

Come on dude...step...away...from...the...ledge.

There's going to be a hand count. Good luck faking that.

Tom, have you toured Trump's gay FEMA concentration camps? Are they in good working order?

(11-13-2018 10:47 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Just because there's an investigation, doesn't mean that there's any evidence.

You mean, like, "Russia!!! Collusion!!!"?

(11-13-2018 11:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 10:47 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Just because there's an investigation, doesn't mean that there's any evidence.

You mean, like, "Russia!!! Collusion!!!"?

Y'all can investigate to your hearts content. Just like Benghazi, all you're likely to find is some lamentable incompetence rather than the epic ballot stuffing (80k? Come on) y'all are arguing.

Sure, go ahead and investigate. Appoint a special prosecutor (but to be fair, since Mueller is a Republican, appoint a Democrat to oversee the investigation)...

(11-13-2018 09:09 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 09:00 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 08:13 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  You guys already have them convicted... Geez.

I expect a volcanic meltdown IF the recount shows that Broward Counties inept ballot design wasn't read properly by some of the election tabulation machines and it turns out that Nelson won.

Being inept does not mean that someone is criminal.

"How does that shoe feel on the other foot? Kind of sucks to be considered guilty rather than innocent until proven guilty now doesn't it?"
— Justice Bret Kavanaugh

The difference is....

An election isn't for life. And all we're looking to do is count all the votes.

No sir! What we are looking to do is to count all of the legal votes of valid voters. In Broward you have documented cases of people voting twice and of people who have been dead for over 100 years whose names are still on the voter role. It's beyond ridiculous and inept. That much disarray only happens when it is needed to cover up criminality. And there is enough there to at least get an indictment.

(11-14-2018 12:01 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 09:09 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 09:00 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 08:13 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  You guys already have them convicted... Geez.

I expect a volcanic meltdown IF the recount shows that Broward Counties inept ballot design wasn't read properly by some of the election tabulation machines and it turns out that Nelson won.

Being inept does not mean that someone is criminal.

"How does that shoe feel on the other foot? Kind of sucks to be considered guilty rather than innocent until proven guilty now doesn't it?"
— Justice Bret Kavanaugh

The difference is....

An election isn't for life. And all we're looking to do is count all the votes.

No sir! What we are looking to do is to count all of the legal votes of valid voters. In Broward you have documented cases of people voting twice and of people who have been dead for over 100 years whose names are still on the voter role. It's beyond ridiculous and inept. That much disarray only happens when it is needed to cover up criminality. And there is enough there to at least get an indictment.

Who voted twice? Please source that.

Lots of dead people on voter rolls. That doesn't mean they get to vote.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/browar...ers-votes/

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/...ults-fraud

That's all I found with a google search of "voted twice Broward" on google

and a youtube video from an individual named Goodman that I didn't watch.

BTW, I did sincerely try to find your accusations myself before asking for sources. I hate when people don't at least try first.

To me it's just a weird math problem. In a county with 700,000 votes, how in the world do you misplace 80,000 for a couple of days? It seems like that would be something that jumped out right away. If you thought you had $700 in your wallet and counted it and only had $620, wouldn't that cause you some concern?

(11-14-2018 12:50 AM)banker Wrote:  To me it's just a weird math problem. In a county with 700,000 votes, how in the world do you misplace 80,000 for a couple of days? It seems like that would be something that jumped out right away. If you thought you had $700 in your wallet and counted it and only had $620, wouldn't that cause you some concern?

Medina County Texas misplaced a similar percent of its votes and they flipped what we thought would be a win for the Dems in TX-23 into a 1,000 vote loss. Sucks for us, but like the votes in Broward, they're legit votes, so they have to be counted.

I tried googling "Broward missing 80,000 votes" and came up with nothing. Can you please help me out with a source of that claim so I can figure out what the argument is? Preferably from something at least approaching a news source, rather than an opinion article?

BTW, the following is why the Republicans are freaking out.....

By the way, here's a CNN article that points to some missing DEMOCRATIC votes. https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/09/politics/...index.html

The fear is that when they run the ballots through the machines again, they're going to find out that the machines didn't read the votes properly and left off votes for Nelson. And if that's the case systematically, there could actually be 20,000 votes, which would flip the race. But if those are legit votes, then they should be counted. If not, then Scott wins (throwing up a little bit inside my mouth while saying it - but still). At least in Florida there are paper ballots to review. In Harris County TX, there's no paper record for most individual ballots.

You have a right to vote and to have your legitimate vote counted. Even if you are a liberal and have an inept supervisor of election. If it turns out that Nelson really did win, then he should be Senator. If not, well then "thanks for your years of service".

(11-14-2018 12:37 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-14-2018 12:01 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 09:09 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 09:00 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 08:13 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  You guys already have them convicted... Geez.

I expect a volcanic meltdown IF the recount shows that Broward Counties inept ballot design wasn't read properly by some of the election tabulation machines and it turns out that Nelson won.

Being inept does not mean that someone is criminal.

"How does that shoe feel on the other foot? Kind of sucks to be considered guilty rather than innocent until proven guilty now doesn't it?"
— Justice Bret Kavanaugh

The difference is....

An election isn't for life. And all we're looking to do is count all the votes.

No sir! What we are looking to do is to count all of the legal votes of valid voters. In Broward you have documented cases of people voting twice and of people who have been dead for over 100 years whose names are still on the voter role. It's beyond ridiculous and inept. That much disarray only happens when it is needed to cover up criminality. And there is enough there to at least get an indictment.

Who voted twice? Please source that.

Lots of dead people on voter rolls. That doesn't mean they get to vote.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/browar...ers-votes/

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/...ults-fraud

That's all I found with a google search of "voted twice Broward" on google

and a youtube video from an individual named Goodman that I didn't watch.

BTW, I did sincerely try to find your accusations myself before asking for sources. I hate when people don't at least try first.

The double voters have already been documented in another thread here Tom.

Enough of the nonsense. Gross mishandling of ballots is a crime. Opening ballots in a private setting is a criminal offense. Transporting ballots in a private vehicle is an offense. The violations are legion. So cut the damn spin on this.

Fulton and Gwinnett where the election officials opened the polls late claiming they lost the computer power cords, and then petitioned to stay open late well past the close of the polls are easier to claim as incompetence than what has happened in Broward.

The real shame here is that voting and electing our leadership is the probably the most sacred of rights in our nation and these kinds of issues shouldn't be tolerated in one election, let alone over two decades of them as they have been in Broward. We ought to have Federal Election officials who can arrive the same day as any report of impropriety at the polls to oversee with the state personnel the handling of the ballots , identification procedures, and counts. Their presence should be mandatory during the polling on election day at sites with a previous history of issues.

Both parties should benefit from integrity at the polling place and excuse making for the most egregious I find inexcusable. And by the way in most places where folks long departed are left on voter rolls, ballots have been cast in their name. The recently dead is understandable. Those dead for decades? Please!

(11-13-2018 11:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 10:47 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Just because there's an investigation, doesn't mean that there's any evidence.

You mean, like, "Russia!!! Collusion!!!"?

You even admitted their was collusion but we haven’t reached the threshold of conspiracy.......


Damn man...

Try harder.

(11-14-2018 01:43 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-14-2018 12:50 AM)banker Wrote:  To me it's just a weird math problem. In a county with 700,000 votes, how in the world do you misplace 80,000 for a couple of days? It seems like that would be something that jumped out right away. If you thought you had $700 in your wallet and counted it and only had $620, wouldn't that cause you some concern?

Medina County Texas misplaced a similar percent of its votes and they flipped what we thought would be a win for the Dems in TX-23 into a 1,000 vote loss. Sucks for us, but like the votes in Broward, they're legit votes, so they have to be counted.

I tried googling "Broward missing 80,000 votes" and came up with nothing. Can you please help me out with a source of that claim so I can figure out what the argument is? Preferably from something at least approaching a news source, rather than an opinion article?

BTW, the following is why the Republicans are freaking out.....

By the way, here's a CNN article that points to some missing DEMOCRATIC votes. https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/09/politics/...index.html

The fear is that when they run the ballots through the machines again, they're going to find out that the machines didn't read the votes properly and left off votes for Nelson. And if that's the case systematically, there could actually be 20,000 votes, which would flip the race. But if those are legit votes, then they should be counted. If not, then Scott wins (throwing up a little bit inside my mouth while saying it - but still). At least in Florida there are paper ballots to review. In Harris County TX, there's no paper record for most individual ballots.

You have a right to vote and to have your legitimate vote counted. Even if you are a liberal and have an inept supervisor of election. If it turns out that Nelson really did win, then he should be Senator. If not, well then "thanks for your years of service".

Great post.

(11-14-2018 05:51 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 11:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 10:47 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Just because there's an investigation, doesn't mean that there's any evidence.

You mean, like, "Russia!!! Collusion!!!"?

You even admitted their was collusion but we haven’t reached the threshold of conspiracy.......
Damn man...
Try harder.

No, I have said that what we know may, repeat may, rise to collusion but not conspiracy. The meeting at Trump Tower might be collusion, but it might not be, and it is insufficient to constitute conspiracy.

If evidence of collusion or criminal conspiracy is found and proved, then so be it. I've made it pretty clear that I have no love for Trump, except that he is not as bad as the leading democrats.

But I find it both incredible and disturbing that some people have treated as absolute fact something for which two years of investigation has so far produced exactly zero evidence. If anyone comes up with evidence then prosecute and let the chips fall where they may. But right now there is more evidence of voter fraud in Broward County, Florida, than there is of "Russia!!! collusion!!!"

Being open minded to the possibility that evidence of collusion or conspiracy may be produced at some point is not the same as agreeing that such evidence has been produced.

By the way, how open minded are you to the possibility that no evidence of conspiracy, or even collusion, may ever be produced?

I'm not going to go back and search the threads because frankly it's not worth my time. YOU said... so you ghot collusion but you don't have conspiracy. Something very close to that. The semantics doesn't matter to the argument. Without a shred of doubt we have collusiuon. Trump Jr. met on the condition to get dirt on Hillary. That meeting happened. That is collusion.

and collusion is not illegal. Conspiracy is.....

(11-13-2018 11:26 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 11:23 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 10:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 10:33 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 08:34 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  Get the feds in there and question people under oath. Especially the ones that actually "found" the boxes of ballots. Investigation wouldn't last long.

No. Outright fraud makes it criminal. Eighty thousand votes appeared out of thin air. Takes these fraud counties weeks to do what every other county does in 8-10 hours. Won’t let observers in. What we are seeing is it takes time to fake 80K ballots. This isn’t a few irrelevant Russian Facebook accounts—this is what it looks like when real honest to goodness election theft is going down.

Can you please name any evidence that there has been any ballot stuffing in the last 20 years? Even 1000 votes, much less 80,000?

The people in Broward County can't even operate a vote tabulation machine properly. I'd be stunned if they could pull off 80k of faked ballots, which would be UNHEARD of in this country.

And if they were faking ballots, they most certainly would have done it earlier.

You know, I fend off hacking allegations all the time from Democrats accusing Republicans of that. Its next to impossible to do much in that regard. Even in big counties, and even if the county clerk is incompetent, there are too many controls. Voter suppression can be real. But vote rigging is VERY rare. And vote hacking is even more rare.

Remember, each precinct has a REPUBLICAN and a Democrat observer. I've been an election judge in a GOP district. I got a copy of the election results of each machine and had to sign every provisional ballot. I also got a list of all the provisional ballots too.

If anything, her incompetence helped Scott. And furthermore, the additional scrutiny that you guys are heaping on Broward is probably helping Nelson, simply by make sure that the ballots are counted.

By the way, the only way this flips is if a poor ballot design resulted in the original vote total being off because the machines didn't read the ballots correctly originally. If that flips the election, you still have the ballots, you'll have a HAND recount, and each one of those ballots has to match hash totals.

I'm sure there is theoretically a way to steal an election, but don't you think that they'd steal the Governor's race too if they were to bother to do so? Either way, Dr Snipes doesn't appear to be competent enough to pull a massive ballot stuffing operation that would escape discovery using even the most basic scrutiny.

Exactly. What’s happening in those counties is unheard of. Never happen before. Frankly, I think it’s happened before—but never on this scale by a single county. Zero fear of being caught. Absolutely chilling.

Amazing. According to you, they're risking long prison sentences and didn't even bother to make sure the stuffing would even be enough for Nelson to win and wasn't enough to help Gillum. And apparently, per the far right, not only did the Broward officials have at least a dozen people in on the fraud, but now you're arguing that Miami Dade and or Palm Beach County has the same thing going on?

Come on dude...step...away...from...the...ledge.

There's going to be a hand count. Good luck faking that.

They've already redone ballots without supervision. They've mixed illegal votes with legal votes. They've "found" ballots that were lost. They've been stopped from doing substantially more illegal "fixing."

But they have already had plenty of potential to committ fraud.

(11-13-2018 11:52 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 11:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 10:47 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Just because there's an investigation, doesn't mean that there's any evidence.

You mean, like, "Russia!!! Collusion!!!"?

Y'all can investigate to your hearts content. Just like Benghazi, all you're likely to find is some lamentable incompetence rather than the epic ballot stuffing (80k? Come on) y'all are arguing.

Sure, go ahead and investigate. Appoint a special prosecutor (but to be fair, since Mueller is a Republican, appoint a Democrat to oversee the investigation)...

They've had opportunity to add ballots and destroy ballots they didn't like. Its like in the Atlanta cheating scandal. They had a locked room with "reliable" teachers erasing the answers on the kids' standardized tests and filling in the correct answers.

Some of those people are now in jail.

(11-14-2018 12:01 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 09:09 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 09:00 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 08:13 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  You guys already have them convicted... Geez.

I expect a volcanic meltdown IF the recount shows that Broward Counties inept ballot design wasn't read properly by some of the election tabulation machines and it turns out that Nelson won.

Being inept does not mean that someone is criminal.

"How does that shoe feel on the other foot? Kind of sucks to be considered guilty rather than innocent until proven guilty now doesn't it?"
— Justice Bret Kavanaugh

The difference is....

An election isn't for life. And all we're looking to do is count all the votes.

No sir! What we are looking to do is to count all of the legal votes of valid voters. In Broward you have documented cases of people voting twice and of people who have been dead for over 100 years whose names are still on the voter role. It's beyond ridiculous and inept. That much disarray only happens when it is needed to cover up criminality. And there is enough there to at least get an indictment.

And she has a history of getting away with these things for the last two years.

(11-14-2018 12:50 AM)banker Wrote:  To me it's just a weird math problem. In a county with 700,000 votes, how in the world do you misplace 80,000 for a couple of days? It seems like that would be something that jumped out right away. If you thought you had $700 in your wallet and counted it and only had $620, wouldn't that cause you some concern?

There's a point where nobody is that stupid. It stretches credulity to believe it is incompetence alone.

(11-14-2018 12:37 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-14-2018 12:01 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 09:09 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 09:00 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 08:13 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  You guys already have them convicted... Geez.

I expect a volcanic meltdown IF the recount shows that Broward Counties inept ballot design wasn't read properly by some of the election tabulation machines and it turns out that Nelson won.

Being inept does not mean that someone is criminal.

"How does that shoe feel on the other foot? Kind of sucks to be considered guilty rather than innocent until proven guilty now doesn't it?"
— Justice Bret Kavanaugh

The difference is....

An election isn't for life. And all we're looking to do is count all the votes.

No sir! What we are looking to do is to count all of the legal votes of valid voters. In Broward you have documented cases of people voting twice and of people who have been dead for over 100 years whose names are still on the voter role. It's beyond ridiculous and inept. That much disarray only happens when it is needed to cover up criminality. And there is enough there to at least get an indictment.

Who voted twice? Please source that.

Lots of dead people on voter rolls. That doesn't mean they get to vote.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/browar...ers-votes/

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/...ults-fraud

That's all I found with a google search of "voted twice Broward" on google

and a youtube video from an individual named Goodman that I didn't watch.

BTW, I did sincerely try to find your accusations myself before asking for sources. I hate when people don't at least try first.

There's a thread on voter fraud in deep blue county with a link showing people being arrested for trying to vote twice. I believe that was in Dade County (Miami).