.

Schumer already said no bill will be passed. There is absolutely no integrity in the Dem party. Yet, sheep, still support them as they do not want to lose their Obama phone and welfare check, others are just stupid.


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(06-20-2018 07:16 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  Schumer already said no bill will be passed. There is absolutely no integrity in the Dem party. Yet, sheep, still support them as they do not want to lose their Obama phone and welfare check, others are just stupid.


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There's two reason for that. Some are Demoncraps regardless and the others only watch the MSM and are misinformed. I should add a third, and those are like Mach, Redwing, the gay Tommy, CB, Gazelle and others that are just ev...really bad actors.

Unfortunately, the liberal goal---despite all protests to the contrary---is a completely open border to the south. This is going to be an extended fight because Im pretty sure the presidential order will be found to be in direct conflict with the Flores court order. The only way to conform with the Flores order and not separate families is to catch and release. Looks to me like this is a Democrat back door way prevent any enforcement of immigration laws. Give credit where credit is due---its fairly shrewd. It once again proves that the Dems are incredibly adept at leveraging select runaway courts in such a way to advance an agenda that enjoys no popular support.

(06-20-2018 10:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Unfortunately, the liberal goal---despite all protests to the contrary---is a steady flow of democrat voters from the south. This is going to be an extended fight because Im pretty sure the presidential order will be found to be in direct conflict with the Flores court order. The only way to conform with the Flores order and not separate families is to catch and release. Looks to me like this is a Democrat back door way prevent any enforcement of immigration laws. Give credit where credit is due---its fairly shrewd. It once again proves that the Dems are incredibly adept at leveraging select runaway courts in such a way to advance an agenda that enjoys no popular support.

Changed it up a bit. I normally hate FIFYs, but I don't think you'll disagree on this one.

(06-20-2018 10:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  It once again proves that the Dems are incredibly adept at leveraging select runaway courts in such a way to advance an agenda that enjoys no popular support.

Gay marriage is a perfect example. No state has ever voted for it yet the SC waved a rainbow wand and ta-da, it was "legal".

(06-19-2018 10:20 PM)Gakusei Wrote:  

(06-19-2018 10:17 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Surely these parents do not have the means to support their kids. Therefore, any child being separated from their parents (if these adults escorting these kids are really the parents in some of these cases) is really to protect the kid from not having a support system (or ****** parents).

They may have family already in the US. The girl in the leaked audio kept saying she wanted to go to her aunt’s house and had the number.

That will encourage more people to attempt to illegally enter the country. Foreigners who illegally enter the country do not get to have the same rights and privileges as a U.S. citizen. The actual solution is to return the family - completely intact - to their country of origin.

We need a serious immigration policy that makes it eager for citizens to come into the country LEGALLY - provided that they meet the right criteria. First off, people who want to immigrate to the U.S. should at a minimum be able to support themselves without immediately going on the dole. They should also have desirable skills that will improve our economy. Less important but preferable - they should have enough financial worth that they can quickly contribute to the U.S. with their purchasing power and ability to secure good jobs.

While I won't begrudge a poor person from immigrating to the U.S., they should at least have a strong desire to become Americans and to work. We see too many people who try to maintain their heritage at all costs - even the cost of not assimilating into the American way of life.

(06-21-2018 12:49 PM)miko33 Wrote:  We need a serious immigration policy that makes it eager for citizens to come into the country LEGALLY - provided that they meet the right criteria.

I agree, except in cases of refugees and those seeking asylum.

Quote:First off, people who want to immigrate to the U.S. should at a minimum be able to support themselves without immediately going on the dole. They should also have desirable skills that will improve our economy. Less important but preferable - they should have enough financial worth that they can quickly contribute to the U.S. with their purchasing power and ability to secure good jobs.

While I won't begrudge a poor person from immigrating to the U.S., they should at least have a strong desire to become Americans and to work. We see too many people who try to maintain their heritage at all costs - even the cost of not assimilating into the American way of life.

Quote:Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, assuming they have a good line of credit, are capable of skilled labor, and immediately replace their inferior culture with that of white American culture, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

(06-21-2018 01:21 PM)Gakusei Wrote:  

Quote:Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, assuming they have a good line of credit, are capable of skilled labor, and immediately replace their inferior culture with that of white American culture, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

As has been noted before, the USA does not make immigration laws based on a poem.

(06-21-2018 01:21 PM)Gakusei Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 12:49 PM)miko33 Wrote:  We need a serious immigration policy that makes it eager for citizens to come into the country LEGALLY - provided that they meet the right criteria.

I agree, except in cases of refugees and those seeking asylum.

Quote:First off, people who want to immigrate to the U.S. should at a minimum be able to support themselves without immediately going on the dole. They should also have desirable skills that will improve our economy. Less important but preferable - they should have enough financial worth that they can quickly contribute to the U.S. with their purchasing power and ability to secure good jobs.

While I won't begrudge a poor person from immigrating to the U.S., they should at least have a strong desire to become Americans and to work. We see too many people who try to maintain their heritage at all costs - even the cost of not assimilating into the American way of life.

Quote:Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, assuming they have a good line of credit, are capable of skilled labor, and immediately replace their inferior culture with that of white American culture, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

Why didn't you post the whole poem? Do you know the history behind the poem?

Quote:New Colossus

statue of liberty poem
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

I think of particular interest is what I highlighted. When you take that into the larger context of the poem, the message - IMHO - is clear. It's meant to be a message of encouragement to those who felt that their homelands cast them aside. Come to America, forget your old life and ways and become Americans. We'll gladly take you. It's a message of integration into our way of life, our culture and our values. While it sounds great and the progressives will regularly throw these words about in favor of illegal immigration - the actual results of these illegals who are in the U.S. is a far cry from the poem itself. They do not try hard to integrate into our society.

You don't get it. They really do not want to be Americans. All they care about is the money. If their situations were only marginally better in their native lands - they wouldn't be trying to come to our country illegally. I do not want to see people immigrate to our country who in reality do not want to be here. That is NOT what the "New Colossus" was all about.

(06-21-2018 01:36 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 01:21 PM)Gakusei Wrote:  

Quote:Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, assuming they have a good line of credit, are capable of skilled labor, and immediately replace their inferior culture with that of white American culture, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

As has been noted before, the USA does not make immigration laws based on a poem.

Hopefully not the poem above, anyway.

(06-21-2018 01:47 PM)Gakusei Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 01:36 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 01:21 PM)Gakusei Wrote:  

Quote:Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, assuming they have a good line of credit, are capable of skilled labor, and immediately replace their inferior culture with that of white American culture, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

As has been noted before, the USA does not make immigration laws based on a poem.

Hopefully not the poem above, anyway.

When we all have our own personal golden doors, I'll be happy to welcome the rest of the world.

Well, quit blaming the Democrats. There is a fight between the moderates and the far right nut jobs in the house of the Republicans, The bill for the far right nut job's bill lost with a lot of the moderate repubs voted against with Democrats voted with them.

There are several Republicans would vote against both house bills.

(06-21-2018 01:47 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 01:21 PM)Gakusei Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 12:49 PM)miko33 Wrote:  We need a serious immigration policy that makes it eager for citizens to come into the country LEGALLY - provided that they meet the right criteria.

I agree, except in cases of refugees and those seeking asylum.

Quote:First off, people who want to immigrate to the U.S. should at a minimum be able to support themselves without immediately going on the dole. They should also have desirable skills that will improve our economy. Less important but preferable - they should have enough financial worth that they can quickly contribute to the U.S. with their purchasing power and ability to secure good jobs.

While I won't begrudge a poor person from immigrating to the U.S., they should at least have a strong desire to become Americans and to work. We see too many people who try to maintain their heritage at all costs - even the cost of not assimilating into the American way of life.

Quote:Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, assuming they have a good line of credit, are capable of skilled labor, and immediately replace their inferior culture with that of white American culture, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

Why didn't you post the whole poem? Do you know the history behind the poem?

Quote:New Colossus

statue of liberty poem
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

I think of particular interest is what I highlighted. When you take that into the larger context of the poem, the message - IMHO - is clear. It's meant to be a message of encouragement to those who felt that their homelands cast them aside. Come to America, forget your old life and ways and become Americans. We'll gladly take you. It's a message of integration into our way of life, our culture and our values. While it sounds great and the progressives will regularly throw these words about in favor of illegal immigration - the actual results of these illegals who are in the U.S. is a far cry from the poem itself. They do not try hard to integrate into our society.

You don't get it. They really do not want to be Americans. All they care about is the money. If their situations were only marginally better in their native lands - they wouldn't be trying to come to our country illegally. I do not want to see people immigrate to our country who in reality do not want to be here. That is NOT what the "New Colossus" was all about.

So, are all these fence jumpers going through Ellis island, too?

Quoting a 150 YO poem to somehow legitimize this insanity. Do we have a country here or not?

SMDH

(06-21-2018 01:47 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 01:21 PM)Gakusei Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 12:49 PM)miko33 Wrote:  We need a serious immigration policy that makes it eager for citizens to come into the country LEGALLY - provided that they meet the right criteria.

I agree, except in cases of refugees and those seeking asylum.

Quote:First off, people who want to immigrate to the U.S. should at a minimum be able to support themselves without immediately going on the dole. They should also have desirable skills that will improve our economy. Less important but preferable - they should have enough financial worth that they can quickly contribute to the U.S. with their purchasing power and ability to secure good jobs.

While I won't begrudge a poor person from immigrating to the U.S., they should at least have a strong desire to become Americans and to work. We see too many people who try to maintain their heritage at all costs - even the cost of not assimilating into the American way of life.

Quote:Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, assuming they have a good line of credit, are capable of skilled labor, and immediately replace their inferior culture with that of white American culture, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

Why didn't you post the whole poem? Do you know the history behind the poem?

Quote:New Colossus

statue of liberty poem
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

I think of particular interest is what I highlighted. When you take that into the larger context of the poem, the message - IMHO - is clear. It's meant to be a message of encouragement to those who felt that their homelands cast them aside. Come to America, forget your old life and ways and become Americans. We'll gladly take you. It's a message of integration into our way of life, our culture and our values. While it sounds great and the progressives will regularly throw these words about in favor of illegal immigration - the actual results of these illegals who are in the U.S. is a far cry from the poem itself. They do not try hard to integrate into our society.

I agree to a point. Anyone coming into the country needs to be capable of functioning within American culture. What I don't agree with is the idea of shedding someone's culture/identity to do so.

Quote:You don't get it. They really do not want to be Americans. All they care about is the money. If their situations were only marginally better in their native lands - they wouldn't be trying to come to our country illegally.

What gives you this impression?

(06-21-2018 02:15 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 01:47 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 01:21 PM)Gakusei Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 12:49 PM)miko33 Wrote:  We need a serious immigration policy that makes it eager for citizens to come into the country LEGALLY - provided that they meet the right criteria.

I agree, except in cases of refugees and those seeking asylum.

Quote:First off, people who want to immigrate to the U.S. should at a minimum be able to support themselves without immediately going on the dole. They should also have desirable skills that will improve our economy. Less important but preferable - they should have enough financial worth that they can quickly contribute to the U.S. with their purchasing power and ability to secure good jobs.

While I won't begrudge a poor person from immigrating to the U.S., they should at least have a strong desire to become Americans and to work. We see too many people who try to maintain their heritage at all costs - even the cost of not assimilating into the American way of life.

Quote:Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, assuming they have a good line of credit, are capable of skilled labor, and immediately replace their inferior culture with that of white American culture, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

Why didn't you post the whole poem? Do you know the history behind the poem?

Quote:New Colossus

statue of liberty poem
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

I think of particular interest is what I highlighted. When you take that into the larger context of the poem, the message - IMHO - is clear. It's meant to be a message of encouragement to those who felt that their homelands cast them aside. Come to America, forget your old life and ways and become Americans. We'll gladly take you. It's a message of integration into our way of life, our culture and our values. While it sounds great and the progressives will regularly throw these words about in favor of illegal immigration - the actual results of these illegals who are in the U.S. is a far cry from the poem itself. They do not try hard to integrate into our society.

You don't get it. They really do not want to be Americans. All they care about is the money. If their situations were only marginally better in their native lands - they wouldn't be trying to come to our country illegally. I do not want to see people immigrate to our country who in reality do not want to be here. That is NOT what the "New Colossus" was all about.

So, are all these fence jumpers going through Ellis island, too?

Quoting a 150 YO poem to somehow legitimize this insanity. Do we have a country here or not?

SMDH

I'm not using a poem to justify anything. He took a small portion of the poem and added lines that I consider to be a variant of godwin's law. I was pointing out that the poem was meant to be about people who WANTED to integrate fully into the American way of life.

I didn't even touch upon another lost point about this - but will do so now. These words were penned during a time when there was no welfare state. So when these poor and homeless were coming into our country, "lady liberty's protection" was NOT access to the welfare state. It was the opportunity made available to them to be able to work and SUPPORT THEMSELVES.

(06-21-2018 02:22 PM)Gakusei Wrote:  

Quote:You don't get it. They really do not want to be Americans. All they care about is the money. If their situations were only marginally better in their native lands - they wouldn't be trying to come to our country illegally.

What gives you this impression?

A) having spoken to many of them and
B) the tens of billions of dollars annually that they send to their families back home, rather than trying to bring that family here (either legally OR illegally)

In Houston, there are massive caches of men working here for say 3-10 years to build a better life back home and in Cali, there are roving packs of migrant workers doing the same

(06-21-2018 03:55 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 02:22 PM)Gakusei Wrote:  

Quote:You don't get it. They really do not want to be Americans. All they care about is the money. If their situations were only marginally better in their native lands - they wouldn't be trying to come to our country illegally.

What gives you this impression?

A) having spoken to many of them and
B) the tens of billions of dollars annually that they send to their families back home, rather than trying to bring that family here (either legally OR illegally)

In Houston, there are massive caches of men working here for say 3-10 years to build a better life back home and in Cali, there are roving packs of migrant workers doing the same

Italian immigrants in the late 19th and early 20th centuries sent money home to their families.

Many also returned home to Italy once they made enough money for themselves in the US.

Quote:This new generation of Italian immigrants was distinctly different in makeup from those that had come before. No longer did the immigrant population consist mostly of Northern Italian artisans and shopkeepers seeking a new market in which to ply their trades. Instead, the vast majority were farmers and laborers looking for a steady source of work—any work. There were a significant number of single men among these immigrants, and many came only to stay a short time. Within five years, between 30 and 50 percent of this generation of immigrants would return home to Italy, where they were known as ritornati.

Those who stayed usually remained in close contact with their family in the old country, and worked hard in order to have money to send back home. In 1896, a government commission on Italian immigration estimated that Italian immigrants sent or took home between $4 million and $30 million each year, and that “the marked increase in the wealth of certain sections of Italy can be traced directly to the money earned in the United States.”

https://www.loc.gov/teachers/classroomma...lian3.html

(06-21-2018 04:15 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 03:55 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 02:22 PM)Gakusei Wrote:  

Quote:You don't get it. They really do not want to be Americans. All they care about is the money. If their situations were only marginally better in their native lands - they wouldn't be trying to come to our country illegally.

What gives you this impression?

A) having spoken to many of them and
B) the tens of billions of dollars annually that they send to their families back home, rather than trying to bring that family here (either legally OR illegally)

In Houston, there are massive caches of men working here for say 3-10 years to build a better life back home and in Cali, there are roving packs of migrant workers doing the same

Italian immigrants in the late 19th and early 20th centuries sent money home to their families.

Many also returned home to Italy once they made enough money for themselves in the US.

Quote:This new generation of Italian immigrants was distinctly different in makeup from those that had come before. No longer did the immigrant population consist mostly of Northern Italian artisans and shopkeepers seeking a new market in which to ply their trades. Instead, the vast majority were farmers and laborers looking for a steady source of work—any work. There were a significant number of single men among these immigrants, and many came only to stay a short time. Within five years, between 30 and 50 percent of this generation of immigrants would return home to Italy, where they were known as ritornati.

Those who stayed usually remained in close contact with their family in the old country, and worked hard in order to have money to send back home. In 1896, a government commission on Italian immigration estimated that Italian immigrants sent or took home between $4 million and $30 million each year, and that “the marked increase in the wealth of certain sections of Italy can be traced directly to the money earned in the United States.”

https://www.loc.gov/teachers/classroomma...lian3.html

Then they really didn't want to be Americans, did they?

(06-21-2018 03:55 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(06-21-2018 02:22 PM)Gakusei Wrote:  

Quote:You don't get it. They really do not want to be Americans. All they care about is the money. If their situations were only marginally better in their native lands - they wouldn't be trying to come to our country illegally.

What gives you this impression?

A) having spoken to many of them and

Highly anecdotal.

Quote:B) the tens of billions of dollars annually that they send to their families back home, rather than trying to bring that family here (either legally OR illegally)

There are plenty of extended families who make their way over here. Enough so that Trump wants to end "chain migration". What someone wants to do with their money once they've earned it really doesn't seem like it should matter, regardless.