The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(06-01-2018 10:01 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 09:27 AM)monarx Wrote:  Gilesfan said "People have this assumption that we’ve had a lot of great basketball years but we have not. We had good years back in 70s and we had a 4-5 year stretch under Taylor that was excellent. Outside of that, last year was better than almost any other season."

I would wager that the 93, 94, 95, 97, 05, 06, 07, 10, 11, and probably '15 teams were all better than last season's team. Those are fairly consistent high quality teams for nearly 20 years. Not including the 70s and 80s which some would say were even better. Last season's team was good, but to me was more like the 99 ODU team that made the NIT and beat Seton Hall.

Unfortunately, it is hard to compare teams of 2 decades ago to today. I only have KenPom back to 2002 and RPI back to like 2011. The 2010-2011 seasons were obviously fantastic and probably two of the best, if not the best teams we've ever had. Our season this past year is very similar in numbers to 2005, 2007, and 2015 based on KenPom numbers.

93
94
95
97
05-73
07-64
10-37
11-48,29
15-70,45
18-64,72


Based on simple rating----certainly not perfect (but only one i have that includes all seasons), here is how they rank:

2010-11.39
1986-9.68
2018 -9.27
2011-9.03
2003-7.83
2015- 7.68
2006-7.62
1994-6.37
2005-5.97
1995-4.08
1997-3.73

LOL. Did you use KenPom, or a Computer Dating Service to find your wife (I'm assuming you are married)?

ODU has had a lot of teams since the 70's (Sonny Allen era) and last year's team (Jeff Jones era), a lot, that were better than last season's team. Coach Allen had a few, Coach Webb had a few, Coach Young had at least one, Coach Capel had one or two, and Coach Taylor had several. I saw those teams play and I saw the team play last year. That's all I need to be able to see the difference.

I went to those games in the past with the reasonable expectation that ODU would defeat the visiting team no matter how good they were. It is from an era that caused in state teams like VA Tech and UVA to decide that they didn't want to play ODU any longer. W & M was always a game that ODU expected to win and in most cases win fairly easily. W & M must be great these days since ODU can no longer defeat them. We all know that isn't the case since W & M still has never made the NCAA Tournament. ODU has simply been in decline. VCU was always a game that the fans of both teams knew would be a hard fought game with each winning their share. Since Blaine's departure it is apparent that VCU now expects to defeat ODU and rightfully so.

(06-01-2018 11:25 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  In 2015, we had wins vs. 21, 53, 64, 65, but also losses to 114, 152 (2), 122, 232.

Our worst loss last year was to a 134 (RPI) in state rival on the road. We lost a heartbreaker to 93 on the road. OUr other 5 losses were to top 50 teams. (all but 2 were tight until the end)

Its not hard to see that last years team was pretty darn good. Its deliberately obtuse to only focus on "how many good wins we had" when you have a seasons worth of data showing we pretty much blew out the bad teams and beat almost everyone we should have beaten and were very competitive against top 50 teams. Its clear the team was a borderline NCAA team (50-70ish range).

If ODU can't win any Top 50 games, ANY, in 5 tries then that alone is telling, and close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. ODU used to regularly win some of those contest in years past. ODU came close to defeating Butler in DC, but Butler made it to the NCAA Championship Game while ODU went home.

(06-01-2018 11:25 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  In 2015, we had wins vs. 21, 53, 64, 65, but also losses to 114, 152 (2), 122, 232.

Our worst loss last year was to a 134 (RPI) in state rival on the road. We lost a heartbreaker to 93 on the road. OUr other 5 losses were to top 50 teams. (all but 2 were tight until the end)

Its not hard to see that last years team was pretty darn good. Its deliberately obtuse to only focus on "how many good wins we had" when you have a seasons worth of data showing we pretty much blew out the bad teams and beat almost everyone we should have beaten and were very competitive against top 50 teams. Its clear the team was a borderline NCAA team (50-70ish range).

Borderline NCAA tournament teams make the NIT.

(06-01-2018 01:05 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  ODU has had a lot of teams since the 70's (Sonny Allen era) and last year's team (Jeff Jones era), a lot, that were better than last season's team. Coach Allen had a few, Coach Webb had a few, Coach Young had at least one, Coach Capel had one or two, and Coach Taylor had several. I saw those teams play and I saw the team play last year. That's all I need to be able to see the difference.

I went to those games in the past with the reasonable expectation that ODU would defeat the visiting team no matter how good they were. It is from an era that caused in state teams like VA Tech and UVA to decide that they didn't want to play ODU any longer. W & M was always a game that ODU expected to win and in most cases win fairly easily. W & M must be great these days since ODU can no longer defeat them. We all know that isn't the case since W & M still has never made the NCAA Tournament. ODU has simply been in decline. VCU was always a game that the fans of both teams knew would be a hard fought game with each winning their share. Since Blaine's departure it is apparent that VCU now expects to defeat ODU and rightfully so.

Agree with this. We've had better teams before. And those stats are of ZERO significance to that factual opinion. <snicker>

To that end (and as I attempt to redirect this ever-repeating topic), I was debating with a former teammate the notion that the GSW is the most talented team ever assembled in the NBA. He says no doubt that when KD went there before last season, they were over the top as the best team ever. Now I'd guess that Giles could pull up numerical support for that, but I debated with him that the Celtics of the 80s (which I absolutely despised) would have given these GSWs so much trouble with the front line of Parrish, McHale, and Bird that GSW would need to shoot a consistently high percentage of 3s just to keep it close. I also debated that the showtime Lakers with Magic at point and a similar sized front line of Kareem, Rambis, and Worthy would have run these GSWs off the floor.

Anyone care to offer an opinion? And apologies in advance for trying to derail such an important thread.

(06-01-2018 01:05 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 10:01 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 09:27 AM)monarx Wrote:  Gilesfan said "People have this assumption that we’ve had a lot of great basketball years but we have not. We had good years back in 70s and we had a 4-5 year stretch under Taylor that was excellent. Outside of that, last year was better than almost any other season."

I would wager that the 93, 94, 95, 97, 05, 06, 07, 10, 11, and probably '15 teams were all better than last season's team. Those are fairly consistent high quality teams for nearly 20 years. Not including the 70s and 80s which some would say were even better. Last season's team was good, but to me was more like the 99 ODU team that made the NIT and beat Seton Hall.

Unfortunately, it is hard to compare teams of 2 decades ago to today. I only have KenPom back to 2002 and RPI back to like 2011. The 2010-2011 seasons were obviously fantastic and probably two of the best, if not the best teams we've ever had. Our season this past year is very similar in numbers to 2005, 2007, and 2015 based on KenPom numbers.

93
94
95
97
05-73
07-64
10-37
11-48,29
15-70,45
18-64,72


Based on simple rating----certainly not perfect (but only one i have that includes all seasons), here is how they rank:

2010-11.39
1986-9.68
2018 -9.27
2011-9.03
2003-7.83
2015- 7.68
2006-7.62
1994-6.37
2005-5.97
1995-4.08
1997-3.73

LOL. Did you use KenPom, or a Computer Dating Service to find your wife (I'm assuming you are married)?

ODU has had a lot of teams since the 70's (Sonny Allen era) and last year's team (Jeff Jones era), a lot, that were better than last season's team. Coach Allen had a few, Coach Webb had a few, Coach Young had at least one, Coach Capel had one or two, and Coach Taylor had several. I saw those teams play and I saw the team play last year. That's all I need to be able to see the difference.

I went to those games in the past with the reasonable expectation that ODU would defeat the visiting team no matter how good they were. It is from an era that caused in state teams like VA Tech and UVA to decide that they didn't want to play ODU any longer. W & M was always a game that ODU expected to win and in most cases win fairly easily. W & M must be great these days since ODU can no longer defeat them. We all know that isn't the case since W & M still has never made the NCAA Tournament. ODU has simply been in decline. VCU was always a game that the fans of both teams knew would be a hard fought game with each winning their share. Since Blaine's departure it is apparent that VCU now expects to defeat ODU and rightfully so.

Do you really need to post insults to show your lack of understanding for how to support your points or do we just roll with "I saw those teams play?"

(06-01-2018 01:22 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 11:25 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  In 2015, we had wins vs. 21, 53, 64, 65, but also losses to 114, 152 (2), 122, 232.

Our worst loss last year was to a 134 (RPI) in state rival on the road. We lost a heartbreaker to 93 on the road. OUr other 5 losses were to top 50 teams. (all but 2 were tight until the end)

Its not hard to see that last years team was pretty darn good. Its deliberately obtuse to only focus on "how many good wins we had" when you have a seasons worth of data showing we pretty much blew out the bad teams and beat almost everyone we should have beaten and were very competitive against top 50 teams. Its clear the team was a borderline NCAA team (50-70ish range).

Borderline NCAA tournament teams make the NIT.

Unfortunately, that isn't true.

(06-01-2018 01:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 01:05 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 10:01 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 09:27 AM)monarx Wrote:  Gilesfan said "People have this assumption that we’ve had a lot of great basketball years but we have not. We had good years back in 70s and we had a 4-5 year stretch under Taylor that was excellent. Outside of that, last year was better than almost any other season."

I would wager that the 93, 94, 95, 97, 05, 06, 07, 10, 11, and probably '15 teams were all better than last season's team. Those are fairly consistent high quality teams for nearly 20 years. Not including the 70s and 80s which some would say were even better. Last season's team was good, but to me was more like the 99 ODU team that made the NIT and beat Seton Hall.

Unfortunately, it is hard to compare teams of 2 decades ago to today. I only have KenPom back to 2002 and RPI back to like 2011. The 2010-2011 seasons were obviously fantastic and probably two of the best, if not the best teams we've ever had. Our season this past year is very similar in numbers to 2005, 2007, and 2015 based on KenPom numbers.

93
94
95
97
05-73
07-64
10-37
11-48,29
15-70,45
18-64,72


Based on simple rating----certainly not perfect (but only one i have that includes all seasons), here is how they rank:

2010-11.39
1986-9.68
2018 -9.27
2011-9.03
2003-7.83
2015- 7.68
2006-7.62
1994-6.37
2005-5.97
1995-4.08
1997-3.73

LOL. Did you use KenPom, or a Computer Dating Service to find your wife (I'm assuming you are married)?

ODU has had a lot of teams since the 70's (Sonny Allen era) and last year's team (Jeff Jones era), a lot, that were better than last season's team. Coach Allen had a few, Coach Webb had a few, Coach Young had at least one, Coach Capel had one or two, and Coach Taylor had several. I saw those teams play and I saw the team play last year. That's all I need to be able to see the difference.

I went to those games in the past with the reasonable expectation that ODU would defeat the visiting team no matter how good they were. It is from an era that caused in state teams like VA Tech and UVA to decide that they didn't want to play ODU any longer. W & M was always a game that ODU expected to win and in most cases win fairly easily. W & M must be great these days since ODU can no longer defeat them. We all know that isn't the case since W & M still has never made the NCAA Tournament. ODU has simply been in decline. VCU was always a game that the fans of both teams knew would be a hard fought game with each winning their share. Since Blaine's departure it is apparent that VCU now expects to defeat ODU and rightfully so.

Do you really need to post insults to show your lack of understanding for how to support your points or do we just roll with "I saw those teams play?"

Just curious, when you spout off the metric that the last 2 recruiting classes are the best ever, aren't you just regurgitating the opinion of someone who "saw them play" in HS?

It doesn't take an oracle to pull up YouTube videos of those teams at the end of the season and come to the conclusion that last year's team would have been abuse by any of those teams at any time of the year.

(06-01-2018 01:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 01:22 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 11:25 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  In 2015, we had wins vs. 21, 53, 64, 65, but also losses to 114, 152 (2), 122, 232.

Our worst loss last year was to a 134 (RPI) in state rival on the road. We lost a heartbreaker to 93 on the road. OUr other 5 losses were to top 50 teams. (all but 2 were tight until the end)

Its not hard to see that last years team was pretty darn good. Its deliberately obtuse to only focus on "how many good wins we had" when you have a seasons worth of data showing we pretty much blew out the bad teams and beat almost everyone we should have beaten and were very competitive against top 50 teams. Its clear the team was a borderline NCAA team (50-70ish range).

Borderline NCAA tournament teams make the NIT.

Unfortunately, that isn't true.

Middle Tennessee was a borderline NCAA team. WKU could make an argument but they weren't really.

ODU wasn't close to borderline.

(06-01-2018 01:28 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 01:05 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  ODU has had a lot of teams since the 70's (Sonny Allen era) and last year's team (Jeff Jones era), a lot, that were better than last season's team. Coach Allen had a few, Coach Webb had a few, Coach Young had at least one, Coach Capel had one or two, and Coach Taylor had several. I saw those teams play and I saw the team play last year. That's all I need to be able to see the difference.

I went to those games in the past with the reasonable expectation that ODU would defeat the visiting team no matter how good they were. It is from an era that caused in state teams like VA Tech and UVA to decide that they didn't want to play ODU any longer. W & M was always a game that ODU expected to win and in most cases win fairly easily. W & M must be great these days since ODU can no longer defeat them. We all know that isn't the case since W & M still has never made the NCAA Tournament. ODU has simply been in decline. VCU was always a game that the fans of both teams knew would be a hard fought game with each winning their share. Since Blaine's departure it is apparent that VCU now expects to defeat ODU and rightfully so.

Agree with this. We've had better teams before. And those stats are of ZERO significance to that factual opinion. <snicker>

To that end (and as I attempt to redirect this ever-repeating topic), I was debating with a former teammate the notion that the GSW is the most talented team ever assembled in the NBA. He says no doubt that when KD went there before last season, they were over the top as the best team ever. Now I'd guess that Giles could pull up numerical support for that, but I debated with him that the Celtics of the 80s (which I absolutely despised) would have given these GSWs so much trouble with the front line of Parrish, McHale, and Bird that GSW would need to shoot a consistently high percentage of 3s just to keep it close. I also debated that the showtime Lakers with Magic at point and a similar sized front line of Kareem, Rambis, and Worthy would have run these GSWs off the floor.

Anyone care to offer an opinion? And apologies in advance for trying to derail such an important thread.

The Celtics best Bird area championship team had a Orating of 111.8 and a drating of 102.6. The last year Golden State team had a 115.6 Oraing and a drating of 104.

The problem with comparing is that teams are soooo much smarter these days about what efficient basketball is. So offenses and defenses are much better than it used to be. Teams are finally figuring out what efficient shots are and what aren't (why postups are not as common).

They wouldn't have to shoot a terribly high percentage to win. Last year they shot 39% on 29 attempts per game. The Celtics team shot 35% on 5 attempts per game.

Four Factors:

GS- .569 eFG%, 14% turnovers, 21% Offensive Rebounds, .195 FT/FGA

Boston .518 eFG%, 14% turnovers, 31% Offensive rebounds, .244 FT/FGA

The only reason Boston is remotely close to the efficiency of GS is getting to the free throw line more often. (OREB don't have as much of an impact)

(06-01-2018 01:40 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 01:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 01:22 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 11:25 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  In 2015, we had wins vs. 21, 53, 64, 65, but also losses to 114, 152 (2), 122, 232.

Our worst loss last year was to a 134 (RPI) in state rival on the road. We lost a heartbreaker to 93 on the road. OUr other 5 losses were to top 50 teams. (all but 2 were tight until the end)

Its not hard to see that last years team was pretty darn good. Its deliberately obtuse to only focus on "how many good wins we had" when you have a seasons worth of data showing we pretty much blew out the bad teams and beat almost everyone we should have beaten and were very competitive against top 50 teams. Its clear the team was a borderline NCAA team (50-70ish range).

Borderline NCAA tournament teams make the NIT.

Unfortunately, that isn't true.

Middle Tennessee was a borderline NCAA team. WKU could make an argument but they weren't really.

ODU wasn't close to borderline.

We were projected by (I think) Joe Linardi as an NCAA tourney team close, if not up to the point when we lost to Western Kentucky and were projected as a NIT seed until a bunch of bid stealing happened on the last 2 days.

(06-01-2018 01:47 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 01:40 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 01:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 01:22 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 11:25 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  In 2015, we had wins vs. 21, 53, 64, 65, but also losses to 114, 152 (2), 122, 232.

Our worst loss last year was to a 134 (RPI) in state rival on the road. We lost a heartbreaker to 93 on the road. OUr other 5 losses were to top 50 teams. (all but 2 were tight until the end)

Its not hard to see that last years team was pretty darn good. Its deliberately obtuse to only focus on "how many good wins we had" when you have a seasons worth of data showing we pretty much blew out the bad teams and beat almost everyone we should have beaten and were very competitive against top 50 teams. Its clear the team was a borderline NCAA team (50-70ish range).

Borderline NCAA tournament teams make the NIT.

Unfortunately, that isn't true.

Middle Tennessee was a borderline NCAA team. WKU could make an argument but they weren't really.

ODU wasn't close to borderline.

We were projected by (I think) Joe Linardi as an NCAA tourney team close, if not up to the point when we lost to Western Kentucky and were projected as a NIT seed until a bunch of bid stealing happened on the last 2 days.

We had 0 top 100 wins when the committee was in session. 0. Marshall didn't crack the top 100 until the NCAA win. We were nowhere near the NCAAs. Not even in the same universe. They could have expanded the NCAAs to 128 teams and we probably wouldn't have made it.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(06-01-2018 01:47 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 01:40 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 01:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 01:22 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 11:25 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  In 2015, we had wins vs. 21, 53, 64, 65, but also losses to 114, 152 (2), 122, 232.

Our worst loss last year was to a 134 (RPI) in state rival on the road. We lost a heartbreaker to 93 on the road. OUr other 5 losses were to top 50 teams. (all but 2 were tight until the end)

Its not hard to see that last years team was pretty darn good. Its deliberately obtuse to only focus on "how many good wins we had" when you have a seasons worth of data showing we pretty much blew out the bad teams and beat almost everyone we should have beaten and were very competitive against top 50 teams. Its clear the team was a borderline NCAA team (50-70ish range).

Borderline NCAA tournament teams make the NIT.

Unfortunately, that isn't true.

Middle Tennessee was a borderline NCAA team. WKU could make an argument but they weren't really.

ODU wasn't close to borderline.

We were projected by (I think) Joe Linardi as an NCAA tourney team close, if not up to the point when we lost to Western Kentucky and were projected as a NIT seed until a bunch of bid stealing happened on the last 2 days.

Which means we were a borderline NIT team that didnt get in. A borderline NCAA team gets in the NIT and maybe sneaks in the real tournament. Davidson and MTSU were borderline NCAA teams last season.

(06-01-2018 01:47 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 01:40 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 01:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 01:22 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 11:25 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  In 2015, we had wins vs. 21, 53, 64, 65, but also losses to 114, 152 (2), 122, 232.

Our worst loss last year was to a 134 (RPI) in state rival on the road. We lost a heartbreaker to 93 on the road. OUr other 5 losses were to top 50 teams. (all but 2 were tight until the end)

Its not hard to see that last years team was pretty darn good. Its deliberately obtuse to only focus on "how many good wins we had" when you have a seasons worth of data showing we pretty much blew out the bad teams and beat almost everyone we should have beaten and were very competitive against top 50 teams. Its clear the team was a borderline NCAA team (50-70ish range).

Borderline NCAA tournament teams make the NIT.

Unfortunately, that isn't true.

Middle Tennessee was a borderline NCAA team. WKU could make an argument but they weren't really.

ODU wasn't close to borderline.

We were projected by (I think) Joe Linardi as an NCAA tourney team close, if not up to the point when we lost to Western Kentucky and were projected as a NIT seed until a bunch of bid stealing happened on the last 2 days.

Lunardi had to have been on crack to make that prognostication. It certainly didn't come from anything ODU accomplished during the season.

This was my prognostication back in June 2017 referencing the schedule. It wasn't a hard prediction to make.

https://csnbbs.com/thread-821809-post-14...id14443660

I think he had us in one week before our first conference loss as an auto bid because we were in 1st place in conference. We were never in Lunardi's or anyone else's at-large bubble discussion aside from maybe Giles's and TMac's.

(06-01-2018 01:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 01:22 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 11:25 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  In 2015, we had wins vs. 21, 53, 64, 65, but also losses to 114, 152 (2), 122, 232.

Our worst loss last year was to a 134 (RPI) in state rival on the road. We lost a heartbreaker to 93 on the road. OUr other 5 losses were to top 50 teams. (all but 2 were tight until the end)

Its not hard to see that last years team was pretty darn good. Its deliberately obtuse to only focus on "how many good wins we had" when you have a seasons worth of data showing we pretty much blew out the bad teams and beat almost everyone we should have beaten and were very competitive against top 50 teams. Its clear the team was a borderline NCAA team (50-70ish range).

Borderline NCAA tournament teams make the NIT.

Unfortunately, that isn't true.

(06-01-2018 02:25 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  I think he had us in one week before our first conference loss as an auto bid because we were in 1st place in conference. We were never in Lunardi's or anyone else's at-large bubble discussion aside from maybe Giles's and TMac's.

Correct...We were never in the discussion as an at large team. We had the same probability of getting in then, as we did when we entered the conference tournament. We were nowhere near an NCAA team.

(06-01-2018 01:44 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  The problem with comparing is that teams are soooo much smarter these days about what efficient basketball is. So offenses and defenses are much better than it used to be. Teams are finally figuring out what efficient shots are and what aren't (why postups are not as common).

So weird. I thought many other players in the league are having lots of trouble with smart plays in the current game (ala JR Smith's lack of situational awareness last night as well as Tristan Thompson's boneheaded meltdown). And I just assumed that postups are not as common because young developmental players are so busy practicing shooting 3s and dunking when they hit 10-12 years old that they don't spend time developing those post skills like many pros before them. Silly me.

(06-01-2018 02:25 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  I think he had us in one week before our first conference loss as an auto bid because we were in 1st place in conference. We were never in Lunardi's or anyone else's at-large bubble discussion aside from maybe Giles's and TMac's.

Wait, when did I say we were an at-large team?

(06-01-2018 02:36 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 01:44 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  The problem with comparing is that teams are soooo much smarter these days about what efficient basketball is. So offenses and defenses are much better than it used to be. Teams are finally figuring out what efficient shots are and what aren't (why postups are not as common).

So weird. I thought many other players in the league are having lots of trouble with smart plays in the current game (ala JR Smith's lack of situational awareness last night as well as Tristan Thompson's boneheaded meltdown). And I just assumed that postups are not as common because young developmental players are so busy practicing shooting 3s and dunking when they hit 10-12 years old that they don't spend time developing those post skills like many pros before them. Silly me.

Nope, it was because analytics showed that even post ups from the better post up players were not efficient plays. FWIW, 6 players in the NBA with over 100 post ups averaged a point per post up or more this past year.

I believe the average PPP on a post up was something like 0.9-0.95 back in the day. That equates to 30%-32% from 3 point range. The average team in the NBA shoots 36% from 3 and no team shot under 33% this past season.

It's not difficult to see why