The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(04-26-2018 07:40 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  

(04-26-2018 07:17 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(04-26-2018 06:51 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-26-2018 06:19 PM)mionarx Wrote:  I wouldn’t call it a “damn good” season unless it ends with at least an NIT bid. Last year was good, but not great and not good enough to meet expectations. I’d give it a B, maybe a B-. NCAA or a new coach in 2019.

We were an NIT caliber team. Certainly better than several NIT teams. Not only KenPom, but We were what.....a hair below WKY and they made some teams looks silly (on the road) in the tourney.

And FWIW, without looking, what was last year; one of the top 5-7 teams we,ve had in the last 25 years?

It was the second best team JJ has had. BT had four or five that were better. Capel had two or three that were better, and Ollie had a couple. Last years team wasn’t an NIT caliber team or they would have been in. They were close. We don’t call the Freeman team an NCAA caliber team.

Disagree the Freeman team wasn’t dance caliber. The team that went to the NIT was tight! I still relish the beat down they put on vcu in the Ted.

Unfortunately, being in CUSA, we do not have the luxury of affording JJ's patented midseason slumps. The team had a lot of potential and won some pretty big games OOC at home, but they were unable to sustain that level of play, perform well on the road, or bring it back when it counted. NCAA calibur teams these days don't lose to UTSA on the road (and they were awful that year). Maybe could have gotten away with it under the committees in Blaine's era, but nowadays, there is no room for that.

(04-27-2018 09:32 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  People will find excuses no matter what lol.

We had 2 bad loss on the season....

Other losses (all but 1 very competitive):

47 (3x)
45
86

We finished top 75 in KenPom for a reason (which actually takes into account how you play; close losses, big wins, etc.)

Would love for us to consistently be top 75, but it hasn't happened in my lifetime. We have had very few seasons being one of the top 75 teams in the country.

If you want a true snapshot list the rpi of the teams we beat in one column and the rpi of teams we lost to in another. It is not a pretty picture.

(04-27-2018 09:32 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  People will find excuses no matter what lol.

We had 2 bad loss on the season....

Other losses (all but 1 very competitive):

47 (3x)
45
86

We finished top 75 in KenPom for a reason (which actually takes into account how you play; close losses, big wins, etc.)

Would love for us to consistently be top 75, but it hasn't happened in my lifetime. We have had very few seasons being one of the top 75 teams in the country.

Top 75 was good, but...

How many good wins did we have?

The only good thing was that we consistently beat bad teams (at least in conference.)

Our win total was more a product of the weakest schedule that I've ever seen an ODU team have. And that was obvious when it came to the NIT Selection. They weren't wrong to snub us.

(04-27-2018 09:32 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  People will find excuses no matter what lol.

We had 2 bad loss on the season....

Other losses (all but 1 very competitive):

47 (3x)
45
86

We finished top 75 in KenPom for a reason (which actually takes into account how you play; close losses, big wins, etc.)

Would love for us to consistently be top 75, but it hasn't happened in my lifetime. We have had very few seasons being one of the top 75 teams in the country.

I love Kenpom, and I look at it religiously, but there is really no measure for how a system matches up with opponents. We dominated certain opponents because of their style vs. ours. It was beautiful to watch us play against teams that played no defense. We absolutely throttled those teams. Those numbers help raise our Kenpom numbers. I tracked it throughout the year.

Edit: If I am not correct about this, then explain to me why we lose to the same systems year in and year out. To me, that is an example of a coach who cannot make any adjustments. The playing style and the zone was great to see this year, but nothing changed as far as the results. Players developed and got better, but the OOC schedule was horrendous (due to other teams being worse than we thought they would be...can't put that on Jones) and we continue to lose games against the same systems.

(04-27-2018 10:01 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-27-2018 09:32 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  People will find excuses no matter what lol.

We had 2 bad loss on the season....

Other losses (all but 1 very competitive):

47 (3x)
45
86

We finished top 75 in KenPom for a reason (which actually takes into account how you play; close losses, big wins, etc.)

Would love for us to consistently be top 75, but it hasn't happened in my lifetime. We have had very few seasons being one of the top 75 teams in the country.

If you want a true snapshot list the rpi of the teams we beat in one column and the rpi of teams we lost to in another. It is not a pretty picture.

RPI is garbage, but we lost to one team with an RPI over 100, correct? VCU?

(04-27-2018 10:01 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(04-27-2018 09:32 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  People will find excuses no matter what lol.

We had 2 bad loss on the season....

Other losses (all but 1 very competitive):

47 (3x)
45
86

We finished top 75 in KenPom for a reason (which actually takes into account how you play; close losses, big wins, etc.)

Would love for us to consistently be top 75, but it hasn't happened in my lifetime. We have had very few seasons being one of the top 75 teams in the country.

Top 75 was good, but...

How many good wins did we have?

The only good thing was that we consistently beat bad teams (at least in conference.)

Our win total was more a product of the weakest schedule that I've ever seen an ODU team have. And that was obvious when it came to the NIT Selection. They weren't wrong to snub us.

The strength of schedule has been pretty much the same for the past 3-4 years. If you want to use RPI, I think there were 4 at large teams with lower RPIs that got in. (All from big conferences)

(04-27-2018 10:14 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(04-27-2018 09:32 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  People will find excuses no matter what lol.

We had 2 bad loss on the season....

Other losses (all but 1 very competitive):

47 (3x)
45
86

We finished top 75 in KenPom for a reason (which actually takes into account how you play; close losses, big wins, etc.)

Would love for us to consistently be top 75, but it hasn't happened in my lifetime. We have had very few seasons being one of the top 75 teams in the country.

I love Kenpom, and I look at it religiously, but there is really no measure for how a system matches up with opponents. We dominated certain opponents because of their style vs. ours. It was beautiful to watch us play against teams that played no defense. We absolutely throttled those teams. Those numbers help raise our Kenpom numbers. I tracked it throughout the year.

Edit: If I am not correct about this, then explain to me why we lose to the same systems year in and year out. To me, that is an example of a coach who cannot make any adjustments. The playing style and the zone was great to see this year, but nothing changed as far as the results. Players developed and got better, but the OOC schedule was horrendous (due to other teams being worse than we thought they would be...can't put that on Jones) and we continue to lose games against the same systems.

KenPom takes into account strength of opposing defense.

(04-27-2018 10:23 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-27-2018 10:01 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-27-2018 09:32 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  People will find excuses no matter what lol.

We had 2 bad loss on the season....

Other losses (all but 1 very competitive):

47 (3x)
45
86

We finished top 75 in KenPom for a reason (which actually takes into account how you play; close losses, big wins, etc.)

Would love for us to consistently be top 75, but it hasn't happened in my lifetime. We have had very few seasons being one of the top 75 teams in the country.

If you want a true snapshot list the rpi of the teams we beat in one column and the rpi of teams we lost to in another. It is not a pretty picture.

RPI is garbage, but we lost to one team with an RPI over 100, correct? VCU?

What about the RPIs of teams we beat. Not interested in exploring that half of the equation?

(04-27-2018 10:27 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-27-2018 10:23 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-27-2018 10:01 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-27-2018 09:32 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  People will find excuses no matter what lol.

We had 2 bad loss on the season....

Other losses (all but 1 very competitive):

47 (3x)
45
86

We finished top 75 in KenPom for a reason (which actually takes into account how you play; close losses, big wins, etc.)

Would love for us to consistently be top 75, but it hasn't happened in my lifetime. We have had very few seasons being one of the top 75 teams in the country.

If you want a true snapshot list the rpi of the teams we beat in one column and the rpi of teams we lost to in another. It is not a pretty picture.

RPI is garbage, but we lost to one team with an RPI over 100, correct? VCU?

What about the RPIs of teams we beat. Not interested in exploring that half of the equation?

It supports where we are. We lost to teams int he 50's-60s in RPI and beat teams >125. What does it tell us that is different than what we already know? We were about ~75 in whatever measure you want to use.

(04-27-2018 09:45 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(04-26-2018 07:40 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  

(04-26-2018 07:17 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(04-26-2018 06:51 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-26-2018 06:19 PM)mionarx Wrote:  I wouldn’t call it a “damn good” season unless it ends with at least an NIT bid. Last year was good, but not great and not good enough to meet expectations. I’d give it a B, maybe a B-. NCAA or a new coach in 2019.

We were an NIT caliber team. Certainly better than several NIT teams. Not only KenPom, but We were what.....a hair below WKY and they made some teams looks silly (on the road) in the tourney.

And FWIW, without looking, what was last year; one of the top 5-7 teams we,ve had in the last 25 years?

It was the second best team JJ has had. BT had four or five that were better. Capel had two or three that were better, and Ollie had a couple. Last years team wasn’t an NIT caliber team or they would have been in. They were close. We don’t call the Freeman team an NCAA caliber team.

Disagree the Freeman team wasn’t dance caliber. The team that went to the NIT was tight! I still relish the beat down they put on vcu in the Ted.

Unfortunately, being in CUSA, we do not have the luxury of affording JJ's patented midseason slumps. The team had a lot of potential and won some pretty big games OOC at home, but they were unable to sustain that level of play, perform well on the road, or bring it back when it counted. NCAA calibur teams these days don't lose to UTSA on the road (and they were awful that year). Maybe could have gotten away with it under the committees in Blaine's era, but nowadays, there is no room for that.

Btw, we were 10-3 on the road, fwiw.

(04-27-2018 10:27 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-27-2018 10:14 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(04-27-2018 09:32 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  People will find excuses no matter what lol.

We had 2 bad loss on the season....

Other losses (all but 1 very competitive):

47 (3x)
45
86

We finished top 75 in KenPom for a reason (which actually takes into account how you play; close losses, big wins, etc.)

Would love for us to consistently be top 75, but it hasn't happened in my lifetime. We have had very few seasons being one of the top 75 teams in the country.

I love Kenpom, and I look at it religiously, but there is really no measure for how a system matches up with opponents. We dominated certain opponents because of their style vs. ours. It was beautiful to watch us play against teams that played no defense. We absolutely throttled those teams. Those numbers help raise our Kenpom numbers. I tracked it throughout the year.

Edit: If I am not correct about this, then explain to me why we lose to the same systems year in and year out. To me, that is an example of a coach who cannot make any adjustments. The playing style and the zone was great to see this year, but nothing changed as far as the results. Players developed and got better, but the OOC schedule was horrendous (due to other teams being worse than we thought they would be...can't put that on Jones) and we continue to lose games against the same systems.

KenPom takes into account strength of opposing defense.

Who needs a tournament? Probably should just do basketball BCS style since KenPom has the definitive measure for how teams stack up.

(04-27-2018 10:29 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-27-2018 10:27 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-27-2018 10:14 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(04-27-2018 09:32 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  People will find excuses no matter what lol.

We had 2 bad loss on the season....

Other losses (all but 1 very competitive):

47 (3x)
45
86

We finished top 75 in KenPom for a reason (which actually takes into account how you play; close losses, big wins, etc.)

Would love for us to consistently be top 75, but it hasn't happened in my lifetime. We have had very few seasons being one of the top 75 teams in the country.

I love Kenpom, and I look at it religiously, but there is really no measure for how a system matches up with opponents. We dominated certain opponents because of their style vs. ours. It was beautiful to watch us play against teams that played no defense. We absolutely throttled those teams. Those numbers help raise our Kenpom numbers. I tracked it throughout the year.

Edit: If I am not correct about this, then explain to me why we lose to the same systems year in and year out. To me, that is an example of a coach who cannot make any adjustments. The playing style and the zone was great to see this year, but nothing changed as far as the results. Players developed and got better, but the OOC schedule was horrendous (due to other teams being worse than we thought they would be...can't put that on Jones) and we continue to lose games against the same systems.

KenPom takes into account strength of opposing defense.

Who needs a tournament? Probably should just do basketball BCS style since KenPom has the definitive measure for how teams stack up.

Tournaments exist to make money. The samples aren't large enough to tell you who the best teams are...thats what the regular season does.

(04-27-2018 10:14 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(04-27-2018 09:32 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  People will find excuses no matter what lol.

We had 2 bad loss on the season....

Other losses (all but 1 very competitive):

47 (3x)
45
86

We finished top 75 in KenPom for a reason (which actually takes into account how you play; close losses, big wins, etc.)

Would love for us to consistently be top 75, but it hasn't happened in my lifetime. We have had very few seasons being one of the top 75 teams in the country.

I love Kenpom, and I look at it religiously, but there is really no measure for how a system matches up with opponents. We dominated certain opponents because of their style vs. ours. It was beautiful to watch us play against teams that played no defense. We absolutely throttled those teams. Those numbers help raise our Kenpom numbers. I tracked it throughout the year.

Edit: If I am not correct about this, then explain to me why we lose to the same systems year in and year out. To me, that is an example of a coach who cannot make any adjustments. The playing style and the zone was great to see this year, but nothing changed as far as the results. Players developed and got better, but the OOC schedule was horrendous (due to other teams being worse than we thought they would be...can't put that on Jones) and we continue to lose games against the same systems.

When you play strict man to man, it becomes crystal clear who has the better athletes being that everyone is playing 1-on-1 defense. We aren't losing to systems, we are losing battles we can't win. Aside from W&M, which was a bit of a statistical outlier, everyone we lost to had better athletes. Everyone we beat had inferior athletes. It is really quite that simple. Even VCU... a terrible team... but our man-to-man defense allowed it to become an individual game and we had no individuals that could contain Tillman.

(04-27-2018 10:28 AM)mac Wrote:  

(04-27-2018 09:45 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(04-26-2018 07:40 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  

(04-26-2018 07:17 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(04-26-2018 06:51 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  We were an NIT caliber team. Certainly better than several NIT teams. Not only KenPom, but We were what.....a hair below WKY and they made some teams looks silly (on the road) in the tourney.

And FWIW, without looking, what was last year; one of the top 5-7 teams we,ve had in the last 25 years?

It was the second best team JJ has had. BT had four or five that were better. Capel had two or three that were better, and Ollie had a couple. Last years team wasn’t an NIT caliber team or they would have been in. They were close. We don’t call the Freeman team an NCAA caliber team.

Disagree the Freeman team wasn’t dance caliber. The team that went to the NIT was tight! I still relish the beat down they put on vcu in the Ted.

Unfortunately, being in CUSA, we do not have the luxury of affording JJ's patented midseason slumps. The team had a lot of potential and won some pretty big games OOC at home, but they were unable to sustain that level of play, perform well on the road, or bring it back when it counted. NCAA calibur teams these days don't lose to UTSA on the road (and they were awful that year). Maybe could have gotten away with it under the committees in Blaine's era, but nowadays, there is no room for that.

Btw, we were 10-3 on the road, fwiw.

We were undefeated at home that year so something isn't adding up.

(04-27-2018 09:45 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(04-26-2018 07:40 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  

(04-26-2018 07:17 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(04-26-2018 06:51 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-26-2018 06:19 PM)mionarx Wrote:  I wouldn’t call it a “damn good” season unless it ends with at least an NIT bid. Last year was good, but not great and not good enough to meet expectations. I’d give it a B, maybe a B-. NCAA or a new coach in 2019.

We were an NIT caliber team. Certainly better than several NIT teams. Not only KenPom, but We were what.....a hair below WKY and they made some teams looks silly (on the road) in the tourney.

And FWIW, without looking, what was last year; one of the top 5-7 teams we,ve had in the last 25 years?

It was the second best team JJ has had. BT had four or five that were better. Capel had two or three that were better, and Ollie had a couple. Last years team wasn’t an NIT caliber team or they would have been in. They were close. We don’t call the Freeman team an NCAA caliber team.

Disagree the Freeman team wasn’t dance caliber. The team that went to the NIT was tight! I still relish the beat down they put on vcu in the Ted.

Unfortunately, being in CUSA, we do not have the luxury of affording JJ's patented midseason slumps. The team had a lot of potential and won some pretty big games OOC at home, but they were unable to sustain that level of play, perform well on the road, or bring it back when it counted. NCAA calibur teams these days don't lose to UTSA on the road (and they were awful that year). Maybe could have gotten away with it under the committees in Blaine's era, but nowadays, there is no room for that.

Houston lost to Drexel. St.Bonnies lost to Niagara. Seton Hall lost to Rutgers.

There has always been teams that get in with bad losses.

(04-27-2018 10:44 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-27-2018 09:45 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(04-26-2018 07:40 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  

(04-26-2018 07:17 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(04-26-2018 06:51 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  We were an NIT caliber team. Certainly better than several NIT teams. Not only KenPom, but We were what.....a hair below WKY and they made some teams looks silly (on the road) in the tourney.

And FWIW, without looking, what was last year; one of the top 5-7 teams we,ve had in the last 25 years?

It was the second best team JJ has had. BT had four or five that were better. Capel had two or three that were better, and Ollie had a couple. Last years team wasn’t an NIT caliber team or they would have been in. They were close. We don’t call the Freeman team an NCAA caliber team.

Disagree the Freeman team wasn’t dance caliber. The team that went to the NIT was tight! I still relish the beat down they put on vcu in the Ted.

Unfortunately, being in CUSA, we do not have the luxury of affording JJ's patented midseason slumps. The team had a lot of potential and won some pretty big games OOC at home, but they were unable to sustain that level of play, perform well on the road, or bring it back when it counted. NCAA calibur teams these days don't lose to UTSA on the road (and they were awful that year). Maybe could have gotten away with it under the committees in Blaine's era, but nowadays, there is no room for that.

Houston lost to Drexel. St.Bonnies lost to Niagara. Seton Hall lost to Rutgers.

There has always been teams that get in with bad losses.

None of those teams are in CUSA.

(04-27-2018 10:52 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(04-27-2018 10:44 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-27-2018 09:45 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(04-26-2018 07:40 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  

(04-26-2018 07:17 PM)monarx Wrote:  It was the second best team JJ has had. BT had four or five that were better. Capel had two or three that were better, and Ollie had a couple. Last years team wasn’t an NIT caliber team or they would have been in. They were close. We don’t call the Freeman team an NCAA caliber team.

Disagree the Freeman team wasn’t dance caliber. The team that went to the NIT was tight! I still relish the beat down they put on vcu in the Ted.

Unfortunately, being in CUSA, we do not have the luxury of affording JJ's patented midseason slumps. The team had a lot of potential and won some pretty big games OOC at home, but they were unable to sustain that level of play, perform well on the road, or bring it back when it counted. NCAA calibur teams these days don't lose to UTSA on the road (and they were awful that year). Maybe could have gotten away with it under the committees in Blaine's era, but nowadays, there is no room for that.

Houston lost to Drexel. St.Bonnies lost to Niagara. Seton Hall lost to Rutgers.

There has always been teams that get in with bad losses.

None of those teams are in CUSA.

And?

(04-27-2018 10:27 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-27-2018 10:14 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(04-27-2018 09:32 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  People will find excuses no matter what lol.

We had 2 bad loss on the season....

Other losses (all but 1 very competitive):

47 (3x)
45
86

We finished top 75 in KenPom for a reason (which actually takes into account how you play; close losses, big wins, etc.)

Would love for us to consistently be top 75, but it hasn't happened in my lifetime. We have had very few seasons being one of the top 75 teams in the country.

I love Kenpom, and I look at it religiously, but there is really no measure for how a system matches up with opponents. We dominated certain opponents because of their style vs. ours. It was beautiful to watch us play against teams that played no defense. We absolutely throttled those teams. Those numbers help raise our Kenpom numbers. I tracked it throughout the year.

Edit: If I am not correct about this, then explain to me why we lose to the same systems year in and year out. To me, that is an example of a coach who cannot make any adjustments. The playing style and the zone was great to see this year, but nothing changed as far as the results. Players developed and got better, but the OOC schedule was horrendous (due to other teams being worse than we thought they would be...can't put that on Jones) and we continue to lose games against the same systems.

KenPom takes into account strength of opposing defense.

I am well aware. I am speaking about certain systems.

And...Have you met my friend Men's Basketball Recruiting thread?

Every thread...JJ sucks, We can't beat anyone, fire everyone. Yada, Yada, Yada, blah, blah, blah. I think there are specific thread dedicated to all these topics.

(04-27-2018 11:38 AM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  And...Have you met my friend Men's Basketball Recruiting thread?

Every thread...JJ sucks, We can't beat anyone, fire everyone. Yada, Yada, Yada, blah, blah, blah. I think there are specific thread dedicated to all these topics.

+1,000