(03-14-2018 12:05 PM)cmett003 Wrote:  Now more than ever Mid-Major conferences need to shed dead weight. Consolidate into the best versions of themselves. Enough of this crap about sticking together and have the whole conference improve. All mid-majors have dead weight at the bottom and that kills them when comparing them to a P5 school. So why not merge into the best conference possible. The A-10 could have been a 1 bid league if St. Bonnie didnt have its best season in years and Davidson didn't win the tournament. Imagine if the shed the bottom for the top teams in C-USA.

A-10 drops:
La Salle - Already talking about moving to the MAAC
Duquesne - hasn't made the NCAA since 1977 and 1 20-win season since 1980 (that is bad)
Fordham - hasn't made the NCAA since 1992 no 20 win seasons since 1991.

A-10 add:
Old Dominion - 2 NCAA bids in the last decade and 7 20+ win seasons
MTSU - 3 NCAA bids in the last decade and 6 20+ win seasons
WKU - 4 NCAA bids in last decade and 7 20+ win seasons


New A-10:
Dayton
VCU
ODU
WKU
Richmond
Davidson
MTSU
George Mason
George Washington
UMass
Rhode Island
St Louis
St Joes
St Bonnie

That is a great quality "Mid Major" conference.

No more sticking with losers like UTEP, Rice, Fordham, Duquesne and other just hoping they will be good one day. They just wont so time to move on and create the best possible conferences. Gonzaga is about to go to the Mountian West and Witchia St went to the AAC because their conferences are no getting any better. The G5 also needs to do the same with football.

The time is now to move on.

First of all, I'd love to tell Duquesne and Fordham "times up", but that's not how things work. La Salle is thinking about dropping out of the A-10 (which comes with a huge minimum athletic spend and a very unequal revenue distribution model that rewards teams that win).

That being said. If the A-10 lost 3 teams, they would NOT even consider adding MTSU, WKU, ODU or any team that plays FBS football. The best thing that ever happened to the league was when the CAA 'stole' the FCS league from the A-10. If you want to play FBS football, you better be a member of the conference before you move up, because you're not getting so much as a sneeze from us if you do. There's enough chaos around our league without adding FBS driven chaos to the mix. And just like UMass, the league isn't going to do squat to help you play football. You'll still have a minimum spend on A-10 sports. That's probably why UMass has an outsized budget (and budget deficit) for a G5.

The A-10 is not interested in expanding outside of the footprint. They've turned down feelers from (football less) UAB and Wichita State. They've also told St Louis "were not adding any teams around you"

Fine. Let SLU head to the MAC then to become its Gonzaga/Wichita...

(03-15-2018 11:34 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Fine. Let SLU head to the MAC then to become its Gonzaga/Wichita...

I've never understood why SLU doesn't join the MAC. It makes sense. Actually a lot of sense. To be clear, the A-10 attitude is "they can stay if they'd like, but we're not adding programs for them'. On the other hand, SLU kind of looks like an A-10 school, only in the Midwest anyway.

(03-15-2018 11:41 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(03-15-2018 11:34 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Fine. Let SLU head to the MAC then to become its Gonzaga/Wichita...

I've never understood why SLU doesn't join the MAC. It makes sense. Actually a lot of sense. To be clear, the A-10 attitude is "they can stay if they'd like, but we're not adding programs for them'. On the other hand, SLU kind of looks like an A-10 school, only in the Midwest anyway.

MAC would also need a 14th....Loyola from the MVC.

Give the MAC programs directly in the Chicago and St. Louis markets.

(03-15-2018 11:41 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(03-15-2018 11:34 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Fine. Let SLU head to the MAC then to become its Gonzaga/Wichita...

I've never understood why SLU doesn't join the MAC. It makes sense. Actually a lot of sense. To be clear, the A-10 attitude is "they can stay if they'd like, but we're not adding programs for them'. On the other hand, SLU kind of looks like an A-10 school, only in the Midwest anyway.

SLU actually should be in the Valley. That's a solid fit without being in an Atlantic/Great Lakes conference. They may even make the NCAA Tournament more often.

I'd like to see the Basketball/Olympic only schools in the South East form a new conference.

Belmont
Lipscomb
UNCA
UNCG
High Point
Radford
UNK
FGCU
UNF
New Orleans


That's a nice 10 team conference and with some luck and time have 3 teams in the NCAA/NIT yearly. They could call themselves the Southeast 10 or SEX for short.

I can understand the ODU fans to a certain extent. El Paso and Norfolk have more than a few miles between them. Also, ODU's athletic program is doing well and almost all fan bases start pumping themselves up as soon as that happens. Some of us UTEP fans will start our own "look at us" threads when our teams start doing well. Bet the house on that.

But we have hope now, after 20 years under an AD that was so stoic that there were times I wondered if had died. Did some good work with facilities and UTEP does have good ones to sell to prospective athletes. Now we have a brand new, enthusiastic, fully engaged AD that is holding town hall meetings around the city and in other places in Texas for UTEP alumni. He hired a new FB coach who is also getting the fan base enthused and raising our expectations. New MBB coach has us excited as well. It's a total transformation of the athletic department. The new AD has a goal of setting a record this year for season ticket sales in football. The record so far is just under 25k. If he succeeds in that then the attendance this year will jump quite a bit. UTEP has averaged over 40k in football multiple times and has had crowds of over 50k a number of times. The teams still are going to have to improve to get back to those numbers but at least it looks like we finally have an ambitious athletic department instead of one that never seemed to fire a losing coach and did not work hard to improve.

(03-16-2018 07:16 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  I can understand the ODU fans to a certain extent. El Paso and Norfolk have more than a few miles between them. Also, ODU's athletic program is doing well and almost all fan bases start pumping themselves up as soon as that happens. Some of us UTEP fans will start our own "look at us" threads when our teams start doing well. Bet the house on that.

But we have hope now, after 20 years under an AD that was so stoic that there were times I wondered if had died. Did some good work with facilities and UTEP does have good ones to sell to prospective athletes. Now we have a brand new, enthusiastic, fully engaged AD that is holding town hall meetings around the city and in other places in Texas for UTEP alumni. He hired a new FB coach who is also getting the fan base enthused and raising our expectations. New MBB coach has us excited as well. It's a total transformation of the athletic department. The new AD has a goal of setting a record this year for season ticket sales in football. The record so far is just under 25k. If he succeeds in that then the attendance this year will jump quite a bit. UTEP has averaged over 40k in football multiple times and has had crowds of over 50k a number of times. The teams still are going to have to improve to get back to those numbers but at least it looks like we finally have an ambitious athletic department instead of one that never seemed to fire a losing coach and did not work hard to improve.

Good to hear that things are looking up. I've always felt Memphis and UTEP were simpatico in many ways. Happy for the fan base.

(03-16-2018 12:23 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(03-15-2018 11:41 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(03-15-2018 11:34 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Fine. Let SLU head to the MAC then to become its Gonzaga/Wichita...

I've never understood why SLU doesn't join the MAC. It makes sense. Actually a lot of sense. To be clear, the A-10 attitude is "they can stay if they'd like, but we're not adding programs for them'. On the other hand, SLU kind of looks like an A-10 school, only in the Midwest anyway.

MAC would also need a 14th....Loyola from the MVC.

Give the MAC programs directly in the Chicago and St. Louis markets.

SLU is interesting to the MAC but not really an institutional fit. Illinois State has all the upside in Illinois, not Loyola regardless of any run they make this March.

Does Loyola and St Louis make the MAC a 2 bid league? No. So there's no point in making a 14 team one bid league. ESPN is not giving the MAC more money for those 2 schools. Loyola had a nice win yesterday, but its their 1sr appearance in 30 years! Let's stop acting like they're Gonzaga.

(03-15-2018 11:41 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(03-15-2018 11:34 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Fine. Let SLU head to the MAC then to become its Gonzaga/Wichita...

I've never understood why SLU doesn't join the MAC. It makes sense. Actually a lot of sense. To be clear, the A-10 attitude is "they can stay if they'd like, but we're not adding programs for them'. On the other hand, SLU kind of looks like an A-10 school, only in the Midwest anyway.

SLU wants to be in a conference with an East Coast presence. A-10 is a good fit for them right now. They have no interest in going to the MAC or the MVC.

I was told that when Rick Majerus was at SLU he had reached out to the Sun Belt and got the commissioner to come to meet with the AD and president. He made his pitch on what the league could do and the AD finally spoke and said "I apologize for you taking the time to come up here and you made a much better case than I expected, but Rick hates flying and he keeps pushing for a conference where he can bus more." The president laughed and said "My board thinks the A10 has too many public universities."

(03-16-2018 09:13 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(03-15-2018 11:41 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(03-15-2018 11:34 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Fine. Let SLU head to the MAC then to become its Gonzaga/Wichita...

I've never understood why SLU doesn't join the MAC. It makes sense. Actually a lot of sense. To be clear, the A-10 attitude is "they can stay if they'd like, but we're not adding programs for them'. On the other hand, SLU kind of looks like an A-10 school, only in the Midwest anyway.

SLU wants to be in a conference with an East Coast presence. A-10 is a good fit for them right now. They have no interest in going to the MAC or the MVC.

They have no interest but that doesn't mean they aren't a great fit in the MVC. You can get an at-large bid out of it as well, granted it is worse than the A-10.

If the MAC ever called Saint Louis or Loyola, both would hang up the phone and block the caller in less than a second.

(03-16-2018 07:42 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(03-16-2018 12:23 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(03-15-2018 11:41 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(03-15-2018 11:34 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Fine. Let SLU head to the MAC then to become its Gonzaga/Wichita...

I've never understood why SLU doesn't join the MAC. It makes sense. Actually a lot of sense. To be clear, the A-10 attitude is "they can stay if they'd like, but we're not adding programs for them'. On the other hand, SLU kind of looks like an A-10 school, only in the Midwest anyway.

MAC would also need a 14th....Loyola from the MVC.

Give the MAC programs directly in the Chicago and St. Louis markets.

SLU is interesting to the MAC but not really an institutional fit. Illinois State has all the upside in Illinois, not Loyola regardless of any run they make this March.

SLU might be interesting to the MAC, but the MAC is in no way interesting to SLU. Same with Loyola.

MAC holds 0 BB cache.

(03-16-2018 11:58 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  If the MAC ever called Saint Louis or Loyola, both would hang up the phone and block the caller in less than a second.

I actually think that the MVC would be a better fit if SLU wanted to 'right size'. But now that Wichita is gone, I think that any wandering eyes SLU might have for any conference not named the BE or the AAC have firmly shut.

They're secure in the A-10. No one is kicking them out. They know the A-10 isn't going to add any teams around them (there really aren't any credible candidates left anyway). We're good, they're good. It just is a bit odd, geographically.

The A-10 isn't going to expel anyone. If they lose a team, or even 3, the most likely response would be to do nothing and hang at 13 or 11 teams. There's no interest in adding FBS playing institutions (or for that matter, institutions that play FCS). Sure, if UConn or Villanova called, we'd add them, but that ain't happening.

I get it. ODU is really, really, really unhappy that the vagarities of realignment have left their old conference dramatically weakened, their new conference isn't really turning out to be working optimally for them, and that they're destined to be a geographic outlier in whatever FBS conference they're likely to be in, barring an unlikely bid to the AAC. ODU has a great program, but not good enough to break apart the MAC, Belt, CUSA, or A-10 for their benefit.

The only hope ODU has in the short to medium term is for somehow, the NCAA to allow football only FBS conferences. That would allow them to credibly apply to the A-10, which might take them at that point. But its still doubtful as the A-10, as constituted currently is a conference consisting almost exclusively of institutions that focus on men's basketball first, second, and always.

(03-16-2018 12:06 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(03-16-2018 11:58 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  If the MAC ever called Saint Louis or Loyola, both would hang up the phone and block the caller in less than a second.

I actually think that the MVC would be a better fit if SLU wanted to 'right size'. But now that Wichita is gone, I think that any wandering eyes SLU might have for any conference not named the BE or the AAC have firmly shut.

They're secure in the A-10. No one is kicking them out. They know the A-10 isn't going to add any teams around them (there really aren't any credible candidates left anyway). We're good, they're good. It just is a bit odd, geographically.

The A-10 isn't going to expel anyone. If they lose a team, or even 3, the most likely response would be to do nothing and hang at 13 or 11 teams. There's no interest in adding FBS playing institutions (or for that matter, institutions that play FCS). Sure, if UConn or Villanova called, we'd add them, but that ain't happening.

I get it. ODU is really, really, really unhappy that the vagarities of realignment have left their old conference dramatically weakened, their new conference isn't really turning out to be working optimally for them, and that they're destined to be a geographic outlier in whatever FBS conference they're likely to be in, barring an unlikely bid to the AAC. ODU has a great program, but not good enough to break apart the MAC, Belt, CUSA, or A-10 for their benefit.

The only hope ODU has in the short to medium term is for somehow, the NCAA to allow football only FBS conferences. That would allow them to credibly apply to the A-10, which might take them at that point. But its still doubtful as the A-10, as constituted currently is a conference consisting almost exclusively of institutions that focus on men's basketball first, second, and always.

We're not the only ones ready to break CUSA apart and if not for the NCAA autobid and CFP hurtles I think it would have happened already. I think there will be an opportunity to reshuffle when the CFP renegotiates and if ODU can stay with most CUSA East and bring in JMU and App St then that'd probably be about as good as we can do. We might be a replacement candidate for the AAC but at that point we'd have to look if it would still be worth joining. The A10 idea is a pipe dream for ODU BB first fans and sportswriters trying to stir the pot.

(03-16-2018 08:53 AM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Does Loyola and St Louis make the MAC a 2 bid league? No. So there's no point in making a 14 team one bid league. ESPN is not giving the MAC more money for those 2 schools. Loyola had a nice win yesterday, but its their 1sr appearance in 30 years! Let's stop acting like they're Gonzaga.

No, they're better than Gonzaga, though not as much so now that Gonzaga made the national title game.

They don't disappoint when they make the NCAA Tournament. They only have two first round losses ever and only one bad one (the other was to one of the best teams of all time).

(03-16-2018 12:34 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(03-16-2018 12:06 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(03-16-2018 11:58 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  If the MAC ever called Saint Louis or Loyola, both would hang up the phone and block the caller in less than a second.

I actually think that the MVC would be a better fit if SLU wanted to 'right size'. But now that Wichita is gone, I think that any wandering eyes SLU might have for any conference not named the BE or the AAC have firmly shut.

They're secure in the A-10. No one is kicking them out. They know the A-10 isn't going to add any teams around them (there really aren't any credible candidates left anyway). We're good, they're good. It just is a bit odd, geographically.

The A-10 isn't going to expel anyone. If they lose a team, or even 3, the most likely response would be to do nothing and hang at 13 or 11 teams. There's no interest in adding FBS playing institutions (or for that matter, institutions that play FCS). Sure, if UConn or Villanova called, we'd add them, but that ain't happening.

I get it. ODU is really, really, really unhappy that the vagarities of realignment have left their old conference dramatically weakened, their new conference isn't really turning out to be working optimally for them, and that they're destined to be a geographic outlier in whatever FBS conference they're likely to be in, barring an unlikely bid to the AAC. ODU has a great program, but not good enough to break apart the MAC, Belt, CUSA, or A-10 for their benefit.

The only hope ODU has in the short to medium term is for somehow, the NCAA to allow football only FBS conferences. That would allow them to credibly apply to the A-10, which might take them at that point. But its still doubtful as the A-10, as constituted currently is a conference consisting almost exclusively of institutions that focus on men's basketball first, second, and always.

We're not the only ones ready to break CUSA apart and if not for the NCAA autobid and CFP hurtles I think it would have happened already. I think there will be an opportunity to reshuffle when the CFP renegotiates and if ODU can stay with most CUSA East and bring in JMU and App St then that'd probably be about as good as we can do. We might be a replacement candidate for the AAC but at that point we'd have to look if it would still be worth joining. The A10 idea is a pipe dream for ODU BB first fans and sportswriters trying to stir the pot.

And we're back on the 'Break up CUSA" topic. The problem with that is that no other conference is going to want that, so its going to be difficult to do that in practice. The other G5 conferences are largely happy with their membership and don't want more chaos. No other conference wants more moveups or to split the CFP money with more entities. They don't want another competitor for the access bid or for a NCAA mens basketball bid that would likely come at the expense of a team not in the P5.

Basically, no team in the A-10 is leaving for a football conference other than the AAC.

The only possible options for ODU to get out of their geographic outlier situation, barring ODU dropping football, is

1) To convince 75% of Sun Belt AND CUSA members that whatever split happens, would be best for them. You're going to have a real problem doing that. Remember, that many Sun Belt members know exactly how the CUSA values them (as they've been passed over when CUSA was better multiple times) and aren't going to be really likely to favorably look upon a CUSA led deal unless there's an obvious benefit for them. None of the permutations of Sun Belt and CUSA create more money for our schools. Also know that the 5 schools that would be on the edges of a split conference (likely Alabama, Tenn, and Mississippi schools) aren't going to just want to be the outlier schools either.

2) To convince the MAC to expand (although you'd still be an outlier, just not as much of one)

---

Look, you guys seem to be doing pretty well in CUSA. Why not just embrace it.

(03-15-2018 11:30 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(03-14-2018 12:05 PM)cmett003 Wrote:  Now more than ever Mid-Major conferences need to shed dead weight. Consolidate into the best versions of themselves. Enough of this crap about sticking together and have the whole conference improve. All mid-majors have dead weight at the bottom and that kills them when comparing them to a P5 school. So why not merge into the best conference possible. The A-10 could have been a 1 bid league if St. Bonnie didnt have its best season in years and Davidson didn't win the tournament. Imagine if the shed the bottom for the top teams in C-USA.

A-10 drops:
La Salle - Already talking about moving to the MAAC
Duquesne - hasn't made the NCAA since 1977 and 1 20-win season since 1980 (that is bad)
Fordham - hasn't made the NCAA since 1992 no 20 win seasons since 1991.

A-10 add:
Old Dominion - 2 NCAA bids in the last decade and 7 20+ win seasons
MTSU - 3 NCAA bids in the last decade and 6 20+ win seasons
WKU - 4 NCAA bids in last decade and 7 20+ win seasons


New A-10:
Dayton
VCU
ODU
WKU
Richmond
Davidson
MTSU
George Mason
George Washington
UMass
Rhode Island
St Louis
St Joes
St Bonnie

That is a great quality "Mid Major" conference.

No more sticking with losers like UTEP, Rice, Fordham, Duquesne and other just hoping they will be good one day. They just wont so time to move on and create the best possible conferences. Gonzaga is about to go to the Mountian West and Witchia St went to the AAC because their conferences are no getting any better. The G5 also needs to do the same with football.

The time is now to move on.

First of all, I'd love to tell Duquesne and Fordham "times up", but that's not how things work. La Salle is thinking about dropping out of the A-10 (which comes with a huge minimum athletic spend and a very unequal revenue distribution model that rewards teams that win).

That being said. If the A-10 lost 3 teams, they would NOT even consider adding MTSU, WKU, ODU or any team that plays FBS football. The best thing that ever happened to the league was when the CAA 'stole' the FCS league from the A-10. If you want to play FBS football, you better be a member of the conference before you move up, because you're not getting so much as a sneeze from us if you do. There's enough chaos around our league without adding FBS driven chaos to the mix. And just like UMass, the league isn't going to do squat to help you play football. You'll still have a minimum spend on A-10 sports. That's probably why UMass has an outsized budget (and budget deficit) for a G5.

The A-10 is not interested in expanding outside of the footprint. They've turned down feelers from (football less) UAB and Wichita State. They've also told St Louis "were not adding any teams around you"

The A-10 commissioner has been quoted several times recently that she would welcome ODU to the A-10. Dont just spitball with nothing to back it up.