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(02-07-2018 05:43 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 05:34 PM)marcuscan Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 05:15 PM)daap_bearcat97 Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 05:09 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Guys we offered but I never heard where they went...

What happened with OT Dawson Bragg and LB JaQuerious Smith?

Bragg signed with MTSU.

Mr Smith hasn't signed, and for that matter neither has Tyrone Simpson. I wonder what's up with that? Both were seemingly quality recruits.



mc

My guess is many that don’t sign today are going to be guys with clear problems qualifying that are headed to JUCO. Not worth losing one of the 25 slots for the year just to add them on a class list.

I wonder if Smith and Sampson both “decommitted” from Syracuse last month for that reason.

Smith ended up signing with Purdue.

I mean our walk-on linebacker just won a super bowl as an all pro center so maybe it's a little too early to count out the O-line

By gum, you are correct. We'll probably be fine on OL.

The OL was "OK" last season- their run blocking was below average and their pass blocking was average, if inconsistent. I will say on the whole they seemed to improved over the course of the season, which I guess you could give Ron Crook props for considering the talent he was working with.

The rub is that while they seemed to get better as a whole, we're now dealing with the turnover of losing Korey C, Will Steur, David Neihaus, and Garrett Campbell to graduation. Kendall Calhoun also got some run and is now gone. Had all/most of them been juniors and could have continued to grow in the system, I'd feel WAY better about this position group heading into 2018. Unfortunately, they're gone and we're basically starting from scratch along the offensive line with mainly Tuberville recruits, which scares me.

Campbell is coming back for another walk-on go since he got an extra year. He will either be a backup to Robinson at Center or will man the interior to see if he is still better there than what we have coming back.

(02-09-2018 12:52 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  The OL was "OK" last season- their run blocking was below average and their pass blocking was average, if inconsistent. I will say on the whole they seemed to improved over the course of the season, which I guess you could give Ron Crook props for considering the talent he was working with.

The rub is that while they seemed to get better as a whole, we're now dealing with the turnover of losing Korey C, Will Steur, David Neihaus, and Garrett Campbell to graduation. Kendall Calhoun also got some run and is now gone. Had all/most of them been juniors and could have continued to grow in the system, I'd feel WAY better about this position group heading into 2018. Unfortunately, they're gone and we're basically starting from scratch along the offensive line with mainly Tuberville recruits, which scares me.

Losing Niehaus is not a negative. Worst center I’ve seen.

(02-09-2018 12:52 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  The OL was "OK" last season- their run blocking was below average and their pass blocking was average, if inconsistent. I will say on the whole they seemed to improved over the course of the season, which I guess you could give Ron Crook props for considering the talent he was working with.

The rub is that while they seemed to get better as a whole, we're now dealing with the turnover of losing Korey C, Will Steur, David Neihaus, and Garrett Campbell to graduation. Kendall Calhoun also got some run and is now gone. Had all/most of them been juniors and could have continued to grow in the system, I'd feel WAY better about this position group heading into 2018. Unfortunately, they're gone and we're basically starting from scratch along the offensive line with mainly Tuberville recruits, which scares me.

Garrett Campbell is back for another year. But yes, your main points are valid.

EDIT: Rath beat me to it.

(02-09-2018 12:52 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  The OL was "OK" last season- their run blocking was below average and their pass blocking was average, if inconsistent. I will say on the whole they seemed to improved over the course of the season, which I guess you could give Ron Crook props for considering the talent he was working with.

The rub is that while they seemed to get better as a whole, we're now dealing with the turnover of losing Korey C, Will Steur, David Neihaus, and Garrett Campbell to graduation. Kendall Calhoun also got some run and is now gone. Had all/most of them been juniors and could have continued to grow in the system, I'd feel WAY better about this position group heading into 2018. Unfortunately, they're gone and we're basically starting from scratch along the offensive line with mainly Tuberville recruits, which scares me.

I believe Garrett Campbell will be back...but I'm not as ready to say that any of our category blocking was "average".

Our pass blocking looked better than it really was because of how quickly we got the ball out...and our QB was completely unsettled all season because of it. Run blocking was decent on the edges, but our a/b's were getting blasted every single run play. Warren and Doaks would break runs outside that were blown up two year sinto the backfield and that's where quite a bit of their yardage came from. The middle of our line was immobile, not that strong, and not very aware of various rush schemes, which bothers me considering they were all seniors. Now part of that is coaching turnover and scheme variance and part of that is talent level. I think Crook is a very good OL coach, but it's worrying me that we didn't have players last year who could beat out the likes of the interior linemen we listed. Cunningham was arguably one of the best left tackles in college football last season (and PFF agrees), so losing him is monumental...I'm just hoping we can get a replacement level guy over there. Our interior is where we need a lot of positive turnover, and we'll be relying on guys who are very young or who were buried underneath the carcasses who were playing there last year.

As Billy said, Neihaus is one of the worst centers I have seen actually play considerable minutes on a college football team in my three decades of watching the sport. That's addition by subtraction because I think Robinson is quality...I'm more worried about the guard spots and the fact that the guys we had apparently beat out who we're putting there this year.

(02-09-2018 12:56 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(02-09-2018 12:52 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  The OL was "OK" last season- their run blocking was below average and their pass blocking was average, if inconsistent. I will say on the whole they seemed to improved over the course of the season, which I guess you could give Ron Crook props for considering the talent he was working with.

The rub is that while they seemed to get better as a whole, we're now dealing with the turnover of losing Korey C, Will Steur, David Neihaus, and Garrett Campbell to graduation. Kendall Calhoun also got some run and is now gone. Had all/most of them been juniors and could have continued to grow in the system, I'd feel WAY better about this position group heading into 2018. Unfortunately, they're gone and we're basically starting from scratch along the offensive line with mainly Tuberville recruits, which scares me.

Losing Niehaus is not a negative. Worst center I’ve seen.

C'mon....you didn't like 2 false starts a game by the center? I thought that added a fun element of surprise.

(02-09-2018 12:59 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(02-09-2018 12:52 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  The OL was "OK" last season- their run blocking was below average and their pass blocking was average, if inconsistent. I will say on the whole they seemed to improved over the course of the season, which I guess you could give Ron Crook props for considering the talent he was working with.

The rub is that while they seemed to get better as a whole, we're now dealing with the turnover of losing Korey C, Will Steur, David Neihaus, and Garrett Campbell to graduation. Kendall Calhoun also got some run and is now gone. Had all/most of them been juniors and could have continued to grow in the system, I'd feel WAY better about this position group heading into 2018. Unfortunately, they're gone and we're basically starting from scratch along the offensive line with mainly Tuberville recruits, which scares me.

I believe Garrett Campbell will be back...but I'm not as ready to say that any of our category blocking was "average".

Our pass blocking looked better than it really was because of how quickly we got the ball out...and our QB was completely unsettled all season because of it. Run blocking was decent on the edges, but our a/b's were getting blasted every single run play. Warren and Doaks would break runs outside that were blown up two year sinto the backfield and that's where quite a bit of their yardage came from. The middle of our line was immobile, not that strong, and not very aware of various rush schemes, which bothers me considering they were all seniors. Now part of that is coaching turnover and scheme variance and part of that is talent level. I think Crook is a very good OL coach, but it's worrying me that we didn't have players last year who could beat out the likes of the interior linemen we listed. Cunningham was arguably one of the best left tackles in college football last season (and PFF agrees), so losing him is monumental...I'm just hoping we can get a replacement level guy over there. Our interior is where we need a lot of positive turnover, and we'll be relying on guys who are very young or who were buried underneath the carcasses who were playing there last year.

As Billy said, Neihaus is one of the worst centers I have seen actually play considerable minutes on a college football team in my three decades of watching the sport. That's addition by subtraction because I think Robinson is quality...I'm more worried about the guard spots and the fact that the guys we had apparently beat out who we're putting there this year.

No one in their right mind would forecast next years line to be good, but it will be better. Most would agree that center is an upgrade. Campbell will probably retain his guard position. That is either a push or better. Bycinski should be a plus at the other guard. The worry is at Tackle. It will probably be yager and the Ohio State transfer. Neither can match Cunningham by a long shot, but the aggregate of the two may equal Cunningham and Calhoun or the other 3 guys that played the position. Probably the more important point is experience playing together. A line as a group can be better than the sum of their parts if they play together. This group will be lacking, but lasts years group was also lacking. This years group will at least be playing together in the same scheme for over a year. If you weigh everything, we should be slightly better.

(02-09-2018 12:59 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(02-09-2018 12:52 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  The OL was "OK" last season- their run blocking was below average and their pass blocking was average, if inconsistent. I will say on the whole they seemed to improved over the course of the season, which I guess you could give Ron Crook props for considering the talent he was working with.

The rub is that while they seemed to get better as a whole, we're now dealing with the turnover of losing Korey C, Will Steur, David Neihaus, and Garrett Campbell to graduation. Kendall Calhoun also got some run and is now gone. Had all/most of them been juniors and could have continued to grow in the system, I'd feel WAY better about this position group heading into 2018. Unfortunately, they're gone and we're basically starting from scratch along the offensive line with mainly Tuberville recruits, which scares me.

I believe Garrett Campbell will be back...but I'm not as ready to say that any of our category blocking was "average".

Our pass blocking looked better than it really was because of how quickly we got the ball out...and our QB was completely unsettled all season because of it. Run blocking was decent on the edges, but our a/b's were getting blasted every single run play. Warren and Doaks would break runs outside that were blown up two year sinto the backfield and that's where quite a bit of their yardage came from. The middle of our line was immobile, not that strong, and not very aware of various rush schemes, which bothers me considering they were all seniors. Now part of that is coaching turnover and scheme variance and part of that is talent level. I think Crook is a very good OL coach, but it's worrying me that we didn't have players last year who could beat out the likes of the interior linemen we listed. Cunningham was arguably one of the best left tackles in college football last season (and PFF agrees), so losing him is monumental...I'm just hoping we can get a replacement level guy over there. Our interior is where we need a lot of positive turnover, and we'll be relying on guys who are very young or who were buried underneath the carcasses who were playing there last year.

As Billy said, Neihaus is one of the worst centers I have seen actually play considerable minutes on a college football team in my three decades of watching the sport. That's addition by subtraction because I think Robinson is quality...I'm more worried about the guard spots and the fact that the guys we had apparently beat out who we're putting there this year.

Didn't know that about Campbell - thanks all for letting me know!

Neihaus was a major liability along the line, as Rath said - 2 false starts per game was his average. That's annoying if you play guard or tackle - center, the guy who hikes the damn football, that's inexcusable. I guess between losing him and Cunningham, you'd almost call that a wash.

Regardless, I'm in agreement that the guards worry me, then the tackles, then center in order or decreased concern. On the whole, I still think OL will still be a major weak spot until some of Fickell's recruits get in there - I honestly just have no faith in the guys Tuberville recruited.

(02-09-2018 01:15 PM)rosewater Wrote:  

(02-09-2018 12:59 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(02-09-2018 12:52 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  The OL was "OK" last season- their run blocking was below average and their pass blocking was average, if inconsistent. I will say on the whole they seemed to improved over the course of the season, which I guess you could give Ron Crook props for considering the talent he was working with.

The rub is that while they seemed to get better as a whole, we're now dealing with the turnover of losing Korey C, Will Steur, David Neihaus, and Garrett Campbell to graduation. Kendall Calhoun also got some run and is now gone. Had all/most of them been juniors and could have continued to grow in the system, I'd feel WAY better about this position group heading into 2018. Unfortunately, they're gone and we're basically starting from scratch along the offensive line with mainly Tuberville recruits, which scares me.

I believe Garrett Campbell will be back...but I'm not as ready to say that any of our category blocking was "average".

Our pass blocking looked better than it really was because of how quickly we got the ball out...and our QB was completely unsettled all season because of it. Run blocking was decent on the edges, but our a/b's were getting blasted every single run play. Warren and Doaks would break runs outside that were blown up two year sinto the backfield and that's where quite a bit of their yardage came from. The middle of our line was immobile, not that strong, and not very aware of various rush schemes, which bothers me considering they were all seniors. Now part of that is coaching turnover and scheme variance and part of that is talent level. I think Crook is a very good OL coach, but it's worrying me that we didn't have players last year who could beat out the likes of the interior linemen we listed. Cunningham was arguably one of the best left tackles in college football last season (and PFF agrees), so losing him is monumental...I'm just hoping we can get a replacement level guy over there. Our interior is where we need a lot of positive turnover, and we'll be relying on guys who are very young or who were buried underneath the carcasses who were playing there last year.

As Billy said, Neihaus is one of the worst centers I have seen actually play considerable minutes on a college football team in my three decades of watching the sport. That's addition by subtraction because I think Robinson is quality...I'm more worried about the guard spots and the fact that the guys we had apparently beat out who we're putting there this year.

No one in their right mind would forecast next years line to be good, but it will be better. Most would agree that center is an upgrade. Campbell will probably retain his guard position. That is either a push or better. Bycinski should be a plus at the other guard. The worry is at Tackle. It will probably be yager and the Ohio State transfer. Neither can match Cunningham by a long shot, but the aggregate of the two may equal Cunningham and Calhoun or the other 3 guys that played the position. Probably the more important point is experience playing together. A line as a group can be better than the sum of their parts if they play together. This group will be lacking, but lasts years group was also lacking. This years group will at least be playing together in the same scheme for over a year. If you weigh everything, we should be slightly better.

I hope you are correct. But why do you think it will be better beyond just hoping?

Trout is a guard and that is where his future lies after college if he performs. Millin the grad x-fer was supposed to man that LT spot and try to fill Cunningham's shoes because he was better than what we had and now he's at Pitt. Figure Trout slides over into that position now and that is a bit of a round peg in a square hole.

Robinson could be very good at Center but Deshaun Bond was an aberration at that position....a Center who is getting his first live snaps in college (@ UCLA no less) with a lot of youth and inexperience around him could struggle with blocking assignments, etc. Weight room prowess notwithstanding, there is a lot more to that position.

Bycinski....people like him but we have no idea what to expect because we just have not seen it yet.

The remainder of the line is up for grabs and we may need to use a walk on again and or/ a JUCO that couldn't break in much at all in his first year when we had 3 walk ons playing.

Once again, I fear UC is gong to have to game plan all season despite the line not because of it. That is going to limit the play sheet considerably (again).

OL and QB are the two weak spots and that is a potential for disaster despite improving the talent level around them dramatically across the board.

The two biggest issues last year were turnovers from the QB position and mental break downs (false starts / penalties) on the OL. I don't know how anyone can say Moore gave UC the best chance to win with the way he consistently turned the ball over.

It is critical they find a grad transfer at either QB or on the OL this off-season. I think finding a QB like a Joe Burrow would be the best move. A QB like that can mask at least some of your OLine problems and I can't imagine he would be more turnover prone than what we have at QB now.

(02-09-2018 01:39 PM)Marcus Wrote:  OL and QB are the two weak spots and that is a potential for disaster despite improving the talent level around them dramatically across the board.

The two biggest issues last year were turnovers from the QB position and mental break downs (false starts / penalties) on the OL. I don't know how anyone can say Moore gave UC the best chance to win with the way he consistently turned the ball over.

It is critical they find a grad transfer at either QB or on the OL this off-season. I think finding a QB like a Joe Burrow would be the best move. A QB like that can mask at least some of your OLine problems and I can't imagine he would be more turnover prone than what we have at QB now.

Baring a guy like Burrow, with this OL, I'd like to see a guy like Ridder or Rogers get some legit snaps in spring or summer to see if their mobility and possibly stronger noodle than Moore's can mitigate some of the potential for problems and open up the playbook a bit.

(02-09-2018 01:50 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(02-09-2018 01:39 PM)Marcus Wrote:  OL and QB are the two weak spots and that is a potential for disaster despite improving the talent level around them dramatically across the board.

The two biggest issues last year were turnovers from the QB position and mental break downs (false starts / penalties) on the OL. I don't know how anyone can say Moore gave UC the best chance to win with the way he consistently turned the ball over.

It is critical they find a grad transfer at either QB or on the OL this off-season. I think finding a QB like a Joe Burrow would be the best move. A QB like that can mask at least some of your OLine problems and I can't imagine he would be more turnover prone than what we have at QB now.

Baring a guy like Burrow, with this OL, I'd like to see a guy like Ridder or Rogers get some legit snaps in spring or summer to see if their mobility and possibly stronger noodle than Moore's can mitigate some of the potential for problems and open up the playbook a bit.

Totally agree. I have zero confidence this team can get to 6 wins with Moore at QB.

(02-09-2018 01:50 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(02-09-2018 01:39 PM)Marcus Wrote:  OL and QB are the two weak spots and that is a potential for disaster despite improving the talent level around them dramatically across the board.

The two biggest issues last year were turnovers from the QB position and mental break downs (false starts / penalties) on the OL. I don't know how anyone can say Moore gave UC the best chance to win with the way he consistently turned the ball over.

It is critical they find a grad transfer at either QB or on the OL this off-season. I think finding a QB like a Joe Burrow would be the best move. A QB like that can mask at least some of your OLine problems and I can't imagine he would be more turnover prone than what we have at QB now.

Baring a guy like Burrow, with this OL, I'd like to see a guy like Ridder or Rogers get some legit snaps in spring or summer to see if their mobility and possibly stronger noodle than Moore's can mitigate some of the potential for problems and open up the playbook a bit.

I'd be fine if we keep Moore and just scrap the 5 yard outs from the opposite hash. That is the single most infuriating play in our book...I'm shocked we only had one of them returned for a TD.

Without a strong arm and locking onto the same receiver from the snap, I agree.

(02-09-2018 01:57 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Without a strong arm and locking onto the same receiver from the snap, I agree.

Dude...we just got done talking about how big of a question mark this line is. If we toss a young-in in there like the new guy in the showers in Oz, we'll just ruin another career. Ridder has potential because he can avoid and potentially cause defensive issues with the read plays we run, but any other guy would just have to sit there and take it.

I know. It’s why this season concerns me. Gordian knots.

As I mentioned elsewhere I hate the idea of giving all the snaps to Moore yet again this year as a 5th year so that we can start over from scratch at the quarterback position in 19’ when we should be ready to make hay.

(02-09-2018 02:08 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I know. It’s why this season concerns me. Gordian knots.

As I mentioned elsewhere I hate the idea of giving all the snaps to Moore yet again this year as a 5th year so that we can start over from scratch at the quarterback position in 19’ when we should be ready to make hay.

But the other side of that is tossing someone to the wolves and potentially wrecking their development too. It's a decision I would never want to have to make...but it's clear where our ceiling is with Moore and to a lesser extent Trail...not so much with Ridder.