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Well, the kid from Central Florida got beat around a little bit on the way to 6-6 running around as a true freshman coming off of that program’s 0-12 season. My guess is their OL was in better shape then than ours will be but that is just a guess. If not and we think the OL is going to be that bad we are screwed anyways and will be back to running a playsheet that 3/4 of the plays can’t be called.

(02-09-2018 02:13 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(02-09-2018 02:08 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I know. It’s why this season concerns me. Gordian knots.

As I mentioned elsewhere I hate the idea of giving all the snaps to Moore yet again this year as a 5th year so that we can start over from scratch at the quarterback position in 19’ when we should be ready to make hay.

But the other side of that is tossing someone to the wolves and potentially wrecking their development too. It's a decision I would never want to have to make...but it's clear where our ceiling is with Moore and to a lesser extent Trail...not so much with Ridder.

I'm definitely in both (either?) of your boats - I'd hate to see Moore take close to 100% of the snaps in 2018. I'd like to see, in the spring and August camps, the coaches put him, Ridder, Bryant, and Rogers into a competition and see who your 1 and 2 would be, then stick with it.

Unfortunately, history tells us Moore will probably win the starting job but there's no reason his immediate backup (Ridder/Bryant/Rogers) can't get 20-30% of snaps in 2018 to build their experience, especially if they put Moore on a short leash.

If I was lord supreme chancellor of UC football, I'd make Moore's leash so short that he plays the first third of the season then start to phase in one of the freshmen around AAC play, giving the freshman the starting job near the end of the season.

Is Ridder supposed to be a good athlete who can do damage with his legs? I thought he was more of a drop back pro-style type who wasn't very athletic? Yanez Rogers intrigues me because it is clear on film he is an explosive athlete. I'd love to see them work in a few packages with him at QB.

I heard that Ridder has some wheels, too. He apparently showed well last summer.

(02-09-2018 02:24 PM)Marcus Wrote:  Is Ridder supposed to be a good athlete who can do damage with his legs? I thought he was more of a drop back pro-style type who wasn't very athletic? Yanez Rogers intrigues me because it is clear on film he is an explosive athlete. I'd love to see them work in a few packages with him at QB.

He (EDIT: Ridder) had something close to 2,000 rushing yards in two season as the starting QB at Louisville St. X...I think he was brought in as more of an athlete by the last staff, but he does seem to be pretty damn mobile.

(02-09-2018 02:23 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Well, the kid from Central Florida got beat around a little bit on the way to 6-6 running around as a true freshman coming off of that program’s 0-12 season. My guess is their OL was in better shape then than ours will be but that is just a guess. If not and we think the OL is going to be that bad we are screwed anyways and will be back to running a playsheet that 3/4 of the plays can’t be called.

I mean...if no one on our roster last year could beat out what we had on the line last year, I don't quite know how we'll be able to improve that much while also losing our only good OLman. That's my thought process right now.

(02-09-2018 02:30 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(02-09-2018 02:24 PM)Marcus Wrote:  Is Ridder supposed to be a good athlete who can do damage with his legs? I thought he was more of a drop back pro-style type who wasn't very athletic? Yanez Rogers intrigues me because it is clear on film he is an explosive athlete. I'd love to see them work in a few packages with him at QB.

He (EDIT: Ridder) had something close to 2,000 rushing yards in two season as the starting QB at Louisville St. X...I think he was brought in as more of an athlete by the last staff, but he does seem to be pretty damn mobile.

Yeah he seems to move pretty well when he tucked it and ran.

http://www.hudl.com/profile/3680190/Desmond-Ridder

(02-09-2018 02:30 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(02-09-2018 02:24 PM)Marcus Wrote:  Is Ridder supposed to be a good athlete who can do damage with his legs? I thought he was more of a drop back pro-style type who wasn't very athletic? Yanez Rogers intrigues me because it is clear on film he is an explosive athlete. I'd love to see them work in a few packages with him at QB.

He (EDIT: Ridder) had something close to 2,000 rushing yards in two season as the starting QB at Louisville St. X...I think he was brought in as more of an athlete by the last staff, but he does seem to be pretty damn mobile.

Good to hear.

(02-09-2018 01:24 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(02-09-2018 01:15 PM)rosewater Wrote:  

(02-09-2018 12:59 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(02-09-2018 12:52 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  The OL was "OK" last season- their run blocking was below average and their pass blocking was average, if inconsistent. I will say on the whole they seemed to improved over the course of the season, which I guess you could give Ron Crook props for considering the talent he was working with.

The rub is that while they seemed to get better as a whole, we're now dealing with the turnover of losing Korey C, Will Steur, David Neihaus, and Garrett Campbell to graduation. Kendall Calhoun also got some run and is now gone. Had all/most of them been juniors and could have continued to grow in the system, I'd feel WAY better about this position group heading into 2018. Unfortunately, they're gone and we're basically starting from scratch along the offensive line with mainly Tuberville recruits, which scares me.

I believe Garrett Campbell will be back...but I'm not as ready to say that any of our category blocking was "average".

Our pass blocking looked better than it really was because of how quickly we got the ball out...and our QB was completely unsettled all season because of it. Run blocking was decent on the edges, but our a/b's were getting blasted every single run play. Warren and Doaks would break runs outside that were blown up two year sinto the backfield and that's where quite a bit of their yardage came from. The middle of our line was immobile, not that strong, and not very aware of various rush schemes, which bothers me considering they were all seniors. Now part of that is coaching turnover and scheme variance and part of that is talent level. I think Crook is a very good OL coach, but it's worrying me that we didn't have players last year who could beat out the likes of the interior linemen we listed. Cunningham was arguably one of the best left tackles in college football last season (and PFF agrees), so losing him is monumental...I'm just hoping we can get a replacement level guy over there. Our interior is where we need a lot of positive turnover, and we'll be relying on guys who are very young or who were buried underneath the carcasses who were playing there last year.

As Billy said, Neihaus is one of the worst centers I have seen actually play considerable minutes on a college football team in my three decades of watching the sport. That's addition by subtraction because I think Robinson is quality...I'm more worried about the guard spots and the fact that the guys we had apparently beat out who we're putting there this year.

No one in their right mind would forecast next years line to be good, but it will be better. Most would agree that center is an upgrade. Campbell will probably retain his guard position. That is either a push or better. Bycinski should be a plus at the other guard. The worry is at Tackle. It will probably be yager and the Ohio State transfer. Neither can match Cunningham by a long shot, but the aggregate of the two may equal Cunningham and Calhoun or the other 3 guys that played the position. Probably the more important point is experience playing together. A line as a group can be better than the sum of their parts if they play together. This group will be lacking, but lasts years group was also lacking. This years group will at least be playing together in the same scheme for over a year. If you weigh everything, we should be slightly better.

I hope you are correct. But why do you think it will be better beyond just hoping?

Trout is a guard and that is where his future lies after college if he performs. Millin the grad x-fer was supposed to man that LT spot and try to fill Cunningham's shoes because he was better than what we had and now he's at Pitt. Figure Trout slides over into that position now and that is a bit of a round peg in a square hole.

Robinson could be very good at Center but Deshaun Bond was an aberration at that position....a Center who is getting his first live snaps in college (@ UCLA no less) with a lot of youth and inexperience around him could struggle with blocking assignments, etc. Weight room prowess notwithstanding, there is a lot more to that position.

Bycinski....people like him but we have no idea what to expect because we just have not seen it yet.

The remainder of the line is up for grabs and we may need to use a walk on again and or/ a JUCO that couldn't break in much at all in his first year when we had 3 walk ons playing.

Once again, I fear UC is gong to have to game plan all season despite the line not because of it. That is going to limit the play sheet considerably (again).

You are aware that Trout got snaps at tackle last year? It would be nice to have other options and keep Trout at guard, but it is not in the cards. I am not going to go through each position player by player. It is not hard to see that we should be marginally better. Better players, players in a system longer, Players responding to a known coach. I cannot figure out why anyone would think the group would be worse.

Yes, and I am aware of what he did in those snaps versus where he is most comfortable and were he has indicated he wants to play.

I asked you why you think this will be better. If you do, by all means...

I will tell you that I think that Rath and Beacatman are right. But could have coach Fickell sat down and knew he had a grace period because of how bad the roster was and decided he would take a hit with the OL for a year and hold a few guys back so that he would have them for 4 more years and not play them last year. If he thinks like I do and says I am going to be here for more than 3 or 4 years and wants to build a program and not just get his win total up and move on. So the guys that may have a shot this year are better than last years guys. I think at Center it is a given but he was going to take time to come around it may take him a year or 2 to see everything live in game and start to understand what he needs to do when each time he see it. I think you will not be able to tell what kind of OL we have until League play starts next year.

Do we even have room for any grad transfers at OL and/or QB? These new rules make me confused on how many open spots we actually have left, if any.

If there is room, I'd REALLY like to see us pursue Joe Burrows if he decides to transfer. I cannot watch another minute of Hayden Moore behind center. I don't see us making a bowl game without a major upgrade at QB even if we had the Patriots offensive line starting for us. I'd love for Ridder or Trail to surprise us, but I just don't have much faith in either of those two.

(02-09-2018 05:35 PM)UCbball21 Wrote:  Do we even have room for any grad transfers at OL and/or QB? These new rules make me confused on how many open spots we actually have left, if any.

If there is room, I'd REALLY like to see us pursue Joe Burrows if he decides to transfer. I cannot watch another minute of Hayden Moore behind center. I don't see us making a bowl game without a major upgrade at QB even if we had the Patriots offensive line starting for us. I'd love for Ridder or Trail to surprise us, but I just don't have much faith in either of those two.

We have 1 spot remaining for whoever we want.

(02-09-2018 04:42 PM)Nobones Wrote:  I will tell you that I think that Rath and Beacatman are right. But could have coach Fickell sat down and knew he had a grace period because of how bad the roster was and decided he would take a hit with the OL for a year and hold a few guys back so that he would have them for 4 more years and not play them last year. If he thinks like I do and says I am going to be here for more than 3 or 4 years and wants to build a program and not just get his win total up and move on. So the guys that may have a shot this year are better than last years guys. I think at Center it is a given but he was going to take time to come around it may take him a year or 2 to see everything live in game and start to understand what he needs to do when each time he see it. I think you will not be able to tell what kind of OL we have until League play starts next year.

Oh I completely get that line of thinking, and if that were the case I'd agree with it in this scenario with how big of a rebuild he had. With that being said, I'm fairly certain the only guy he redshirted to withhold eligibility was Robinson, and we all seem to agree he'll be an upgrade. The fact that Bycznski (RS Frosh last year) could not beat out Steur is a little troubling, because regardless of if he's young or not, I'm hard pressed to find a way that you would hold back a better player to toss him out there. As far as Campbell goes...who knows? Trout looked ok later, and a lot of that was probably getting acclimated with the system, but there's a very real chance he gets moved to tackle, so there will be another adjustment here.

It's going to be a rocky road, but I'm trusting the process. I think Woodside, Cooper, and O'Quinn look to have solid fundamentals and good frames to build on, and we've got a solid OL coach in Crooks. This is just going to be a tough year.

I have always said that OL is the position group that's hardest to grade out just due to the fact that there are so many of them out there and many "look" good due to competition level more so than fundamentals and physical ability. I think each one of the guys we've got for the line the last two years look to be decent adds so far, but they're all projects at the moment, for one reason or another. We needed a guy who could potentially hope into the rotation this year, and I'm not entirely sure we got one.

Does anyone know what the actual 2 deep was at OL down the stretch last year?

(02-09-2018 05:35 PM)UCbball21 Wrote:  Do we even have room for any grad transfers at OL and/or QB? These new rules make me confused on how many open spots we actually have left, if any.

If there is room, I'd REALLY like to see us pursue Joe Burrows if he decides to transfer. I cannot watch another minute of Hayden Moore behind center. I don't see us making a bowl game without a major upgrade at QB even if we had the Patriots offensive line starting for us. I'd love for Ridder or Trail to surprise us, but I just don't have much faith in either of those two.

is Trail still with the team? i thought he was a transfer out candidate?

(02-09-2018 06:39 PM)eroc Wrote:  is Trail still with the team? i thought he was a transfer out candidate?

While everyone talks about him transferring out of the program, he hasn't done so.

(02-09-2018 06:13 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(02-09-2018 04:42 PM)Nobones Wrote:  I will tell you that I think that Rath and Beacatman are right. But could have coach Fickell sat down and knew he had a grace period because of how bad the roster was and decided he would take a hit with the OL for a year and hold a few guys back so that he would have them for 4 more years and not play them last year. If he thinks like I do and says I am going to be here for more than 3 or 4 years and wants to build a program and not just get his win total up and move on. So the guys that may have a shot this year are better than last years guys. I think at Center it is a given but he was going to take time to come around it may take him a year or 2 to see everything live in game and start to understand what he needs to do when each time he see it. I think you will not be able to tell what kind of OL we have until League play starts next year.

Oh I completely get that line of thinking, and if that were the case I'd agree with it in this scenario with how big of a rebuild he had. With that being said, I'm fairly certain the only guy he redshirted to withhold eligibility was Robinson, and we all seem to agree he'll be an upgrade. The fact that Bycznski (RS Frosh last year) could not beat out Steur is a little troubling, because regardless of if he's young or not, I'm hard pressed to find a way that you would hold back a better player to toss him out there. As far as Campbell goes...who knows? Trout looked ok later, and a lot of that was probably getting acclimated with the system, but there's a very real chance he gets moved to tackle, so there will be another adjustment here.

It's going to be a rocky road, but I'm trusting the process. I think Woodside, Cooper, and O'Quinn look to have solid fundamentals and good frames to build on, and we've got a solid OL coach in Crooks. This is just going to be a tough year.

I have always said that OL is the position group that's hardest to grade out just due to the fact that there are so many of them out there and many "look" good due to competition level more so than fundamentals and physical ability. I think each one of the guys we've got for the line the last two years look to be decent adds so far, but they're all projects at the moment, for one reason or another. We needed a guy who could potentially hope into the rotation this year, and I'm not entirely sure we got one.

I agree with you on Bycznski being not able to beat out anyone for playing time. But I think Lamb could fall into that category with Robinson. I just dont have any inside info like you and Rath seem to have about how Cody looked last year on the scout team and in the weight room and if he was able to pack on the good weight he needed too.

Edit: Plus MCconell just looked up both he and Lamb in last year recruiting link and saw that they were both rated higher than Robinson out of High School. But I total get your saying that HS OL is one of the harder players to gage how they will develop. I like that McConnell came from up at Massillon, Ohio / Washington which might have had good competition each week.

Safe to assume as a PWO, but we got another local kid in Moeller runningback Colin Thurman. A 2-star walk-on isn't a bad thing.

https://twitter.com/Colin_ThurmanV5/stat...5410785280

https://247sports.com/Player/Colin-Thurman-46035452

https://www.hudl.com/profile/4267288/Colin-Thurman

I guess the Official Positivity Policy doesn’t apply to the football recruiting threads. Still trying to learn the new rules.