(11-30-2017 11:07 AM)Policiious Wrote:  Most nationally franchised or corporately owned retailers have a No Guns policy as do most government owned buildings. Just don't be the idiot who carries a weapon into a store that doesn't allow them; too many idiots have been caught trying to carry on a weapon on airplanes or into airports.

Think before you carry.

If you don't know about the corporate policy, or "don't see" the sign, no harm no foul.

Worst you get in most states is asked to leave if they even know you are carrying. Which they won't if you are carrying properly. You politely comply. Just sayin.

Government buildings, schools and airports, you are not exactly a member of Mensa if you don't know those.

(11-30-2017 10:10 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 10:03 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  If you have a gun on you in public you're a potential target. People are keeping an eye on you and people keep an eye on that weapon not always for good reasons. I don't want to be a target. I don't want anyone knowing - that's part of the point.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

I actually think open carry is detrimental to the general public's acceptance of firearms.

I'd love to see an unbiased study on this... not questioning you, just honestly interested in the truth and not just our own perspectives

My position is that the person open carrying would almost never be a risk to anyone. It's the person concealed carrying who is more likely the problem. No, not all by any means and probably not even many....

but I can't imagine ANY criminal open carrying, can you?

Just because the public is scared of the person open carrying and blissfully ignorant of the criminal beside them hiding it, doesn't make them safer. I think the point would be to educate the public of the reality... that criminals improperly exercising their 2nd amendment rights don't want you knowing they have guns until they're using them on you and that the people showing you they are armed (and exercising their 2nd amendment rights responsibly with them) are not at all a threat

the PROBLEM with the debate is that SOME of the public doesn't recognize the difference between the two and in fact get it completely backwards.

(11-29-2017 04:26 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-29-2017 04:17 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(11-29-2017 03:58 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-29-2017 03:53 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(11-29-2017 03:44 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I would rather not open carry.

You don't have to. In fact, I encourage you to conceal carry.

But that's the beauty of the 2nd Amendment and local state gun rights. It's an individual right that people cannot impact.

What does it cost to conceal carry.

The class was $125, the permit $35.

After that the world's your oyster on what you want to spend on a firearm and carry mechanism. I prefer small and simple because it's almost impossible to conceal something big without a suit coat, which looks ridiculous when I am grocery shopping. ;.)

That's nothing. I thought it was something like $600 plus classes.

In all honestly, I'm not ready to conceal carry. I read up on the laws in Texas and New Mexico and from what I read, it's legal to keep a firearm in your car.

For the time being, I have my firearm locked up in my car under the seat. The car is my weekender so it's sitting in my garage.

The wife let me buy it on the condition that I don't bring it in the house.

if it is loaded and under the seat it would be considered concealed. You need a permit for that in most states. If you are going to transport it in a vehicle without a conceal permit, you should remove the magazine and store the weapon in the trunk (not in reach of you as the driver).

I would suggest going through the permit process if you are going to own a weapon regardless of weather you plan to carry or not...just cover your bases in the case of a traffic stop or something.

(11-30-2017 01:25 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 10:10 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 10:03 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  If you have a gun on you in public you're a potential target. People are keeping an eye on you and people keep an eye on that weapon not always for good reasons. I don't want to be a target. I don't want anyone knowing - that's part of the point.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

I actually think open carry is detrimental to the general public's acceptance of firearms.

I'd love to see an unbiased study on this... not questioning you, just honestly interested in the truth and not just our own perspectives

My position is that the person open carrying would almost never be a risk to anyone. It's the person concealed carrying who is more likely the problem. No, not all by any means and probably not even many....

but I can't imagine ANY criminal open carrying, can you?

Just because the public is scared of the person open carrying and blissfully ignorant of the criminal beside them hiding it, doesn't make them safer. I think the point would be to educate the public of the reality... that criminals improperly exercising their 2nd amendment rights don't want you knowing they have guns until they're using them on you and that the people showing you they are armed (and exercising their 2nd amendment rights responsibly with them) are not at all a threat

the PROBLEM with the debate is that SOME of the public doesn't recognize the difference between the two and in fact get it completely backwards.

If you are trained, it's probably not a big issue. But if you are a weekend warrior or
a Starbucks ninja, you are just asking to have it taken away by people with bad intent.

Ask an off duty officer why they don't open carry.

Wear a bigger size pants over what you normally wear and buy one of those holsters that are advertised on tv and Youtube. Would that work?

(11-30-2017 08:43 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(11-29-2017 03:34 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-29-2017 03:06 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  Heck, I'll be honest, other than the cop complaining about being filmed as if he was afraid of something, I don't see anything anybody did that was wrong. (maybe you could argue why the second cop needed a heavier rifle)

I suppose you are correct.

Do people who open carry have to do this at every store they go to?

Very likely only in blue states. I don't usually open carry but there have been times when I have. I have yet to be challenged anywhere except for once in a Bass Pro Shop and that was by store security who asked to see my permit. When I showed it to him he told me to have a nice day. The last time I was stopped for speeding I informed the officer that I was legally armed and his response was don't show me yours and I won't show you mine. He never asked for my permit. Small town America rocks.

wouldn't trade it until/unless I had/have to......

(11-30-2017 11:07 AM)Policiious Wrote:  Most nationally franchised or corporately owned retailers have a No Guns policy as do most government owned buildings. Just don't be the idiot who carries a weapon into a store that doesn't allow them; too many idiots have been caught trying to carry on a weapon on airplanes or into airports.

Think before you carry.

Corporate policy does not trump state law and in SC they can have all the policies they want but of they don't meet the requirements spelled forth in code they can't stop someone from carrying in their store.

(11-30-2017 01:42 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  If you are trained, it's probably not a big issue. But if you are a weekend warrior or
a Starbucks ninja, you are just asking to have it taken away by people with bad intent.

Ask an off duty officer why they don't open carry.

The whole purpose of a permit is that you're trained. I realize this can be skirted and maybe we change the training....

but 'having it taken away by people with bad intent' is sort of a problem in reverse, isn't it? People with bad intent don't think... I'll go to starbucks and steal a gun from an open carry person and then rob them all. They have a gun already.

As to the off duty cop, I suspect a lot of it is so that they don't draw attention and then they can get the drop on the perp... and not that they're worried they'll be jumped and have it stolen. If that were the case, then cops would be targets all the time of gun thieves/people with bad intent. We don't really see that.



But what does any of that have to do with the fact that people with permit's to carry, whether open OR concealed don't commit crimes and criminals would conceal carry?

If you're saying that we're safer if everyone concealed carries and thus they can all get the bad guys who conceal as well, okay... but THAT sounds like a recipe for the weekend warrior to me

Again, I'd like to see an honest analysis. I don't think you and i have different goals, just concerns about different aspects of it.

You seem concerned that criminals can now steal guns from you (pretty risky proposition to steal someone's gun in public) and I'm more concerned that we treat honest citizens like criminals and ignore the criminals.

Yep. Can be asked to leave if they learn you are carrying but that's about it in the states I frequent. If you don't leave I guess you could be cited for trespassing but it will never get to that. It's a non sequitur.

(11-30-2017 02:28 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 01:42 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  If you are trained, it's probably not a big issue. But if you are a weekend warrior or
a Starbucks ninja, you are just asking to have it taken away by people with bad intent.

Ask an off duty officer why they don't open carry.

The whole purpose of a permit is that you're trained. I realize this can be skirted and maybe we change the training....

but 'having it taken away by people with bad intent' is sort of a problem in reverse, isn't it? People with bad intent don't think... I'll go to starbucks and steal a gun from an open carry person and then rob them all. They have a gun already.

As to the off duty cop, I suspect a lot of it is so that they don't draw attention and then they can get the drop on the perp... and not that they're worried they'll be jumped and have it stolen. If that were the case, then cops would be targets all the time of gun thieves/people with bad intent. We don't really see that.



But what does any of that have to do with the fact that people with permit's to carry, whether open OR concealed don't commit crimes and criminals would conceal carry?

If you're saying that we're safer if everyone concealed carries and thus they can all get the bad guys who conceal as well, okay... but THAT sounds like a recipe for the weekend warrior to me

Again, I'd like to see an honest analysis. I don't think you and i have different goals, just concerns about different aspects of it.

You seem concerned that criminals can now steal guns from you (pretty risky proposition to steal someone's gun in public) and I'm more concerned that we treat honest citizens like criminals and ignore the criminals.

Can't take by force what you don't know is there.

Cops have holstered weapons taken from them. More than you'd guess.

(11-30-2017 01:36 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(11-29-2017 04:26 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-29-2017 04:17 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(11-29-2017 03:58 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-29-2017 03:53 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  You don't have to. In fact, I encourage you to conceal carry.

But that's the beauty of the 2nd Amendment and local state gun rights. It's an individual right that people cannot impact.

What does it cost to conceal carry.

The class was $125, the permit $35.

After that the world's your oyster on what you want to spend on a firearm and carry mechanism. I prefer small and simple because it's almost impossible to conceal something big without a suit coat, which looks ridiculous when I am grocery shopping. ;.)

That's nothing. I thought it was something like $600 plus classes.

In all honestly, I'm not ready to conceal carry. I read up on the laws in Texas and New Mexico and from what I read, it's legal to keep a firearm in your car.

For the time being, I have my firearm locked up in my car under the seat. The car is my weekender so it's sitting in my garage.

The wife let me buy it on the condition that I don't bring it in the house.

if it is loaded and under the seat it would be considered concealed. You need a permit for that in most states. If you are going to transport it in a vehicle without a conceal permit, you should remove the magazine and store the weapon in the trunk (not in reach of you as the driver).

I would suggest going through the permit process if you are going to own a weapon regardless of weather you plan to carry or not...just cover your bases in the case of a traffic stop or something.

Can someone please check that and let me know because I've seen more than one website say that it's legal to carry a loaded handgun in your car in Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico.


In Texas it's HB1815 Texas Motor Protection Act.

I read the offical legal version but it's to confusing for me.

Maybe UTSA Marine can chime in on this.

Part of being a responsible gun owner is knowing the laws where you reside and travel. This is not the place to learn the rules. Take an active role.

(11-30-2017 02:40 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 01:36 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(11-29-2017 04:26 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-29-2017 04:17 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(11-29-2017 03:58 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  What does it cost to conceal carry.

The class was $125, the permit $35.

After that the world's your oyster on what you want to spend on a firearm and carry mechanism. I prefer small and simple because it's almost impossible to conceal something big without a suit coat, which looks ridiculous when I am grocery shopping. ;.)

That's nothing. I thought it was something like $600 plus classes.

In all honestly, I'm not ready to conceal carry. I read up on the laws in Texas and New Mexico and from what I read, it's legal to keep a firearm in your car.

For the time being, I have my firearm locked up in my car under the seat. The car is my weekender so it's sitting in my garage.

The wife let me buy it on the condition that I don't bring it in the house.

if it is loaded and under the seat it would be considered concealed. You need a permit for that in most states. If you are going to transport it in a vehicle without a conceal permit, you should remove the magazine and store the weapon in the trunk (not in reach of you as the driver).

I would suggest going through the permit process if you are going to own a weapon regardless of weather you plan to carry or not...just cover your bases in the case of a traffic stop or something.

Can someone please check that and let me know because I've seen more than one website say that it's legal to carry a loaded handgun in your car in Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico.


In Texas it's HB1815 Texas Motor Protection Act.

I read the offical legal version but it's to confusing for me.

Maybe UTSA Marine can chime in on this.

I'm unsure of Texas law, but in Ohio you can carry loaded in a car but need a CCW License to do so legally.

Yep, in Ohio you need a CCW to carry loaded even if it's not within reach. Has to be unloaded and ammo and gun cannot be where they are both accessible while in car otherwise you can be cited.

(11-30-2017 01:42 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  If you are trained, it's probably not a big issue. But if you are a weekend warrior or
a Starbucks ninja, you are just asking to have it taken away by people with bad intent.

Ask an off duty officer why they don't open carry.

That's why I no longer open carry. I am trained considerably in both personal protection and recognition and still worried about the dummy who reached for it because of that training. Made the decision to stop after conversing with my buddy's father who is a LEO and said the exact same...no sense in bringing attention when there are just as comfortable ways to conceal.

(11-30-2017 02:44 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Part of being a responsible gun owner is knowing the laws where you reside and travel. This is not the place to learn the rules. Take an active role.

I have read up on the laws and am 90% sure I am correct on this issue. However, no matter how many people I talk too, there is always someone who thinks the opposite.

I think I am being responsible by asking as many people as I can who is in the know on this subject.

I'm pretty sure I am in my right in Texas to carry a concealed, loaded handgun in my car without a CCL

That said, my weapon is not loaded.

(11-30-2017 03:09 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 02:44 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Part of being a responsible gun owner is knowing the laws where you reside and travel. This is not the place to learn the rules. Take an active role.

I have read up on the laws and am 90% sure I am correct on this issue. However, no matter how many people I talk too, there is always someone who thinks the opposite.

I think I am being responsible by asking as many people as I can who is in the know on this subject.

I'm pretty sure I am in my right in Texas to carry a concealed, loaded handgun in my car without a CCL

That said, my weapon is not loaded.

Then why are you carrying it at all?

You are a smart guy. This is not that hard. A message board is no place to get legal advice. Especially about firearms laws. And that's coming from a member of 3 state bars.

Startbhere and then verify on your own.

https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-gu...ew-mexico/

(11-30-2017 03:13 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 03:09 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 02:44 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Part of being a responsible gun owner is knowing the laws where you reside and travel. This is not the place to learn the rules. Take an active role.

I have read up on the laws and am 90% sure I am correct on this issue. However, no matter how many people I talk too, there is always someone who thinks the opposite.

I think I am being responsible by asking as many people as I can who is in the know on this subject.

I'm pretty sure I am in my right in Texas to carry a concealed, loaded handgun in my car without a CCL

That said, my weapon is not loaded.

Then why are you carrying it at all?

It's locked up in my car because my wife won't allow it in the house.

(11-30-2017 02:40 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  In Texas it's HB1815 Texas Motor Protection Act.

http://coferlaw.com/4862/is-it-illegal-t...-in-texas/

The Texas Motorist Protection Act (HB 1815), effective as of September 1, 2007, permits any law-abiding Texas resident the legal right to carry a handgun inside their motor vehicle in Texas without a CHL (Concealed Handgun License) or any other permit. As long as you are legally permitted to own a firearm and the vehicle belongs to you, then the answer is yes; you may have a gun, loaded or unloaded, in your vehicle in the state of Texas.
But…
We know. There is always a “but”. Nothing is ever that easy when dealing with criminal law. However, the law is pretty clear and not too hard to grasp. Lawful carry of a gun while in a vehicle in Texas only requires the following four qualifiers:
*The handgun must NOT be in plain view; it must be concealed.
*You are NOT engaged in criminal activity (excluding Class C traffic misdemeanors). If you are, then you have bigger problems to worry about!
*Federal law does NOT prohibit you from possessing a firearm. (See end of article for more details)
*You are NOT a member of a criminal gang.

This is a Texas Lawyer's website... but of course any time you've got something like this, there can be exceptions. I'm sure someone can argue that this interpretation isn't correct.