The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

I'm 65, followed ODU since 1981.

The point was sometimes you have to give someone a bit xtra time to get his house in order, just don't knee jerk fire people. MT was patient, it paid off and is paying off. my HOPE is the same happens here.

(11-02-2017 02:16 PM)jumpshooter Wrote:  I'm 65, followed ODU since 1981.

The point was sometimes you have to give someone a bit xtra time to get his house in order, just don't knee jerk fire people. MT was patient, it paid off and is paying off. my HOPE is the same happens here.

Absolutely agree. Blain Taylor didn't get to the NCAA's until his 4th season with us. I know some people would debate my next statement but in my opinion Taylor was left a lot more to work with than Jones was in terms of personnel. Plus the fact he had a new building to sell and we were in a much more localized league that was easier to sell at the time.

(11-02-2017 02:11 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 01:48 PM)jumpshooter Wrote:  I think I'm right on this. Took Kermit Davis 7 years to get MT to the NCAAs. Here's an interesting piece on him from the Syracuse paper that tells stuff I didn't know. Perhaps you didn't, either. Also, and this may have changed, it says his salary was raised to 475K. Yeah, I cherry-picked this, but sometimes patience is what's called for, which I hope we're (admin) is exhibiting in view of the last 2 recruiting classes. Sure, put up the facilities argument, our "history," and all of that crap. Not buying it. We've had some good years, NCAA -wise; we've never been what some of you think we've been. Sorry to break the news to you.

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebasketball...es_in.html

I don't know how old you are but most of us literally sat in the stands and watched an ODU program that was better than MTSU's current program for about an 8 year stretch. MTSU had one good year last season. The season before they were a 15 seed. They did win their 1st game in a big upset, but a 12 seed and a 15 seed isn't at the level that ODU was at in 2009-2011.

Seeds don't matter in the NCAA tournament. Wins matter. To that effect, the recent MTSU teams are WAY better than BT's old ODU teams.

After BT's 3rd season we were right on the cusp and we all knew we were going to the NCAAs the next 2 years (he did completely f up '05-'06, which should have been the best ODU team to put on a uniform). If we don't make it this year, that is what I want to see... a team on the cusp that we are confident will be there moving forward.

(11-02-2017 02:28 PM)JJMonarch Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 02:16 PM)jumpshooter Wrote:  I'm 65, followed ODU since 1981.

The point was sometimes you have to give someone a bit xtra time to get his house in order, just don't knee jerk fire people. MT was patient, it paid off and is paying off. my HOPE is the same happens here.

Absolutely agree. Blain Taylor didn't get to the NCAA's until his 4th season with us. I know some people would debate my next statement but in my opinion Taylor was left a lot more to work with than Jones was in terms of personnel. Plus the fact he had a new building to sell and we were in a much more localized league that was easier to sell at the time.

There should be no debate. Unfortunately BT left us with nothing.

(11-02-2017 02:42 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 02:28 PM)JJMonarch Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 02:16 PM)jumpshooter Wrote:  I'm 65, followed ODU since 1981.

The point was sometimes you have to give someone a bit xtra time to get his house in order, just don't knee jerk fire people. MT was patient, it paid off and is paying off. my HOPE is the same happens here.

Absolutely agree. Blain Taylor didn't get to the NCAA's until his 4th season with us. I know some people would debate my next statement but in my opinion Taylor was left a lot more to work with than Jones was in terms of personnel. Plus the fact he had a new building to sell and we were in a much more localized league that was easier to sell at the time.

There should be no debate. Unfortunately BT left us with nothing.

But then Trey Freeman fell into our lap

LOL. So did Heinicke. We've never developed a single player here. It's all been luck. Oh, Lieberman and Hodge and Sessoms and Dixon, Claxton, Cullen, Bazemore, too. Lucky to get 'em all.

(11-02-2017 01:08 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  In 40 years as a D-I school, we've had 10 NCAA appearances. Four of those appearances came in a seven year stretch under BT--which skews the average span between appearances.

And even during most of those years, there were actually plenty of repeated posts on the former boards that ODU wasn't moving forward enough and he should be FIRED.

Of course back then the dead horse whipping was he wasn't winning enough games when he got into the NCAA tournament. Now he is probably looking like a stud.

So when JJ gets it going (and I hope he does), cue up the "he doesn't win enough NCAA games" beatdown because I guarantee it will follow.

(11-02-2017 01:08 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  In 40 years as a D-I school, we've had 10 NCAA appearances. Four of those appearances came in a seven year stretch under BT--which skews the average span between appearances.

Kind of puts things in perspective. From what you read here, you would think we are better than a program that only gets to the tournament 25% of the time in our rich and storied history. But Jones has gotten us to the tournament 0% of the time, and I would like to thank ODU for providing me with an engineering education that allowed me to calculate that number.

(11-02-2017 12:37 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 12:19 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 02:10 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 01:36 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I'm confused about why some people seem to think losing to Towson is some sort of scarlet-letter moment. They could end up winning the CAA, and while I think conference RPI is a dodgy way to determine the quality of a conference or the difficulty in winning it, the CAA has been consistently higher in that metric than CUSA. ODU has suffered far more embarrassing losses in the past few years just in conference play.

Put another way: If ODU wins, and they should certainly expect to win at home, then there's a distinct possibility that they'll have a top-100 win on their resume. Even if it's a program that lost 41 straight a few years ago.

Because pre-BT meltdown we were at a level that we should not have lost to even a "good" Towson team. I am not willing to accept a new normal and start making comparisons based on what we are now, rather than what we have been when we aligned our resources correctly.

So other programs aren't allowed to improve? I don't get this "well, we were this good once so we should always be at LEAST that good in perpetuity and no other teams' improvements can ever be acknowledged" thing going on here.

I think if you're going to insist that ODU's best seasons are the floor for future seasons, you're going to be disappointed. Just like VCU and George Mason fans who don't understand why they're not in the Final Four every season. Programs have down stretches. Nobody's immune.

I expected for those years to at least remain the mean. Of course I understand that there will be down years from time to time, but we have been well below that mean for nearly a decade now. Do you find that acceptable? What is the definition of time to make a change?5 Years? 7 Years? 10 years? Never as long as we are as good as Towson?

What is the mean? Based on my last post it would appear once every 4 years? That's a fair number, right? But you do have a point, how long do you wait? How many promising recruiting classes? 4? So far we've had 2.

(11-02-2017 02:47 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 02:42 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 02:28 PM)JJMonarch Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 02:16 PM)jumpshooter Wrote:  I'm 65, followed ODU since 1981.

The point was sometimes you have to give someone a bit xtra time to get his house in order, just don't knee jerk fire people. MT was patient, it paid off and is paying off. my HOPE is the same happens here.

Absolutely agree. Blain Taylor didn't get to the NCAA's until his 4th season with us. I know some people would debate my next statement but in my opinion Taylor was left a lot more to work with than Jones was in terms of personnel. Plus the fact he had a new building to sell and we were in a much more localized league that was easier to sell at the time.

There should be no debate. Unfortunately BT left us with nothing.

But then Trey Freeman fell into our lap

Yea BT and staff didn't think he was worth a scholarship. So how were his talent evaluation skills.

(11-02-2017 01:08 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  In 40 years as a D-I school, we've had 10 NCAA appearances. Four of those appearances came in a seven year stretch under BT--which skews the average span between appearances.

So we should aim for the years we weren't good. Got it.

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(11-02-2017 01:48 PM)jumpshooter Wrote:  I think I'm right on this. Took Kermit Davis 7 years to get MT to the NCAAs. Here's an interesting piece on him from the Syracuse paper that tells stuff I didn't know. Perhaps you didn't, either. Also, and this may have changed, it says his salary was raised to 475K. Yeah, I cherry-picked this, but sometimes patience is what's called for, which I hope we're (admin) is exhibiting in view of the last 2 recruiting classes. Sure, put up the facilities argument, our "history," and all of that crap. Not buying it. We've had some good years, NCAA -wise; we've never been what some of you think we've been. Sorry to break the news to you.

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebasketball...es_in.html

We hear about ol Kermit a lot when JJ's lack of productivity is pointed out. Aside from the fact that Kermit did not already have a 20 year record of mediocrity, how many other coaches in modern basketball can you name that took 7 years to get it together?

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(11-02-2017 06:20 PM)odu09 Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 01:08 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  In 40 years as a D-I school, we've had 10 NCAA appearances. Four of those appearances came in a seven year stretch under BT--which skews the average span between appearances.

Kind of puts things in perspective. From what you read here, you would think we are better than a program that only gets to the tournament 25% of the time in our rich and storied history. But Jones has gotten us to the tournament 0% of the time, and I would like to thank ODU for providing me with an engineering education that allowed me to calculate that number.

Does it? Don't let him spin the facts. 11 in 40 years is better than one every four years. We are going on 7 and most of those belong to JJ. He also failed to mention that coaches were fired for those other dry spells.

Aside from all that, should we be aspiring to replicate the program's lows, or to maintain the highs and build on them?

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(11-02-2017 04:46 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 01:08 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  In 40 years as a D-I school, we've had 10 NCAA appearances. Four of those appearances came in a seven year stretch under BT--which skews the average span between appearances.

And even during most of those years, there were actually plenty of repeated posts on the former boards that ODU wasn't moving forward enough and he should be FIRED.

Of course back then the dead horse whipping was he wasn't winning enough games when he got into the NCAA tournament. Now he is probably looking like a stud.

So when JJ gets it going (and I hope he does), cue up the "he doesn't win enough NCAA games" beatdown because I guarantee it will follow.

Those posts came when it was obvious that BT was burning the thing down. The lack of talent when BT was fired could be seen coming down the pike for a couple years, even when we were still good. We would have been in a much better place if BT was fired when some of us started calling for it rather than waiting until one of the all time great dumpster fires was fully engulfing the program. Now the same people are making the same arguments to endlessly give a coach #onemoreyear. That should be our motto around here.

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Not true.

Those posts were coming in rapid fire from one poster right after we'd lose in the first round in multiple years. He was hardly burning anything down.

True story.

(11-02-2017 07:33 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 04:46 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 01:08 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  In 40 years as a D-I school, we've had 10 NCAA appearances. Four of those appearances came in a seven year stretch under BT--which skews the average span between appearances.

And even during most of those years, there were actually plenty of repeated posts on the former boards that ODU wasn't moving forward enough and he should be FIRED.

Of course back then the dead horse whipping was he wasn't winning enough games when he got into the NCAA tournament. Now he is probably looking like a stud.

So when JJ gets it going (and I hope he does), cue up the "he doesn't win enough NCAA games" beatdown because I guarantee it will follow.

Those posts came when it was obvious that BT was burning the thing down. The lack of talent when BT was fired could be seen coming down the pike for a couple years, even when we were still good. We would have been in a much better place if BT was fired when some of us started calling for it rather than waiting until one of the all time great dumpster fires was fully engulfing the program. Now the same people are making the same arguments to endlessly give a coach #onemoreyear. That should be our motto around here.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

I agree with most of this, but there is one important difference. JJs recruiting finally appears to be going in a strong upward direction. That's the reason he may deserve another year. I was in the NCAA or new coach mindset until I saw what he landed last season and this one. (We hope) Assuming they all come, I'm inclined to see what he does with these guys for another season and see if he can turn it around with the infusion of better talent.

(11-02-2017 09:27 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 07:33 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 04:46 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 01:08 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  In 40 years as a D-I school, we've had 10 NCAA appearances. Four of those appearances came in a seven year stretch under BT--which skews the average span between appearances.

And even during most of those years, there were actually plenty of repeated posts on the former boards that ODU wasn't moving forward enough and he should be FIRED.

Of course back then the dead horse whipping was he wasn't winning enough games when he got into the NCAA tournament. Now he is probably looking like a stud.

So when JJ gets it going (and I hope he does), cue up the "he doesn't win enough NCAA games" beatdown because I guarantee it will follow.

Those posts came when it was obvious that BT was burning the thing down. The lack of talent when BT was fired could be seen coming down the pike for a couple years, even when we were still good. We would have been in a much better place if BT was fired when some of us started calling for it rather than waiting until one of the all time great dumpster fires was fully engulfing the program. Now the same people are making the same arguments to endlessly give a coach #onemoreyear. That should be our motto around here.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

I agree with most of this, but there is one important difference. JJs recruiting finally appears to be going in a strong upward direction. That's the reason he may deserve another year. I was in the NCAA or new coach mindset until I saw what he landed last season and this one. (We hope) Assuming they all come, I'm inclined to see what he does with these guys for another season and see if he can turn it around with the infusion of better talent.

Check out our recruiting rankings. Recruiting is vastly improved, but it is only spectacular compared to the horrific recruiting of JJ's first 3 years. It certainly is not enough to justify putting up with 2 more years of no tournament.

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Please post a list of all the five win teams that haul in multiple three star recruits. I'll wait.

JJ has had four years to take ODU from one of the worst teams in the NCAA to an above average team. His recruiting classes have improved each year. In that four year span, he's also had the highest win percentage of any ODU men's basketball coach ever. While he hasn't reached the NCAA tournament yet, he clearly has the program ascending. Only a biased fool would fail to see that.

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(11-02-2017 09:33 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 09:27 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 07:33 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 04:46 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 01:08 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  In 40 years as a D-I school, we've had 10 NCAA appearances. Four of those appearances came in a seven year stretch under BT--which skews the average span between appearances.

And even during most of those years, there were actually plenty of repeated posts on the former boards that ODU wasn't moving forward enough and he should be FIRED.

Of course back then the dead horse whipping was he wasn't winning enough games when he got into the NCAA tournament. Now he is probably looking like a stud.

So when JJ gets it going (and I hope he does), cue up the "he doesn't win enough NCAA games" beatdown because I guarantee it will follow.

Those posts came when it was obvious that BT was burning the thing down. The lack of talent when BT was fired could be seen coming down the pike for a couple years, even when we were still good. We would have been in a much better place if BT was fired when some of us started calling for it rather than waiting until one of the all time great dumpster fires was fully engulfing the program. Now the same people are making the same arguments to endlessly give a coach #onemoreyear. That should be our motto around here.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

I agree with most of this, but there is one important difference. JJs recruiting finally appears to be going in a strong upward direction. That's the reason he may deserve another year. I was in the NCAA or new coach mindset until I saw what he landed last season and this one. (We hope) Assuming they all come, I'm inclined to see what he does with these guys for another season and see if he can turn it around with the infusion of better talent.

Check out our recruiting rankings. Recruiting is vastly improved, but it is only spectacular compared to the horrific recruiting of JJ's first 3 years. It certainly is not enough to justify putting up with 2 more years of no tournament.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

Are there any recruting rankings that include transfers in their rankings?