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You answered your own question: "I guess we will see."

(11-01-2017 10:12 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I guess we will see. Based on JJ's record it would be major change if we were to see a great deal of improvement sustained. This is the easy part, going from mediocre to decent. I will be very surprised and eating an oversized helping of crow if we see sustained high level success under a coach who has never in 20+ years been able to accomplish that.

What? Jones has coached teams that did major damage in the NCAA tourney

(11-01-2017 11:30 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 10:12 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I guess we will see. Based on JJ's record it would be major change if we were to see a great deal of improvement sustained. This is the easy part, going from mediocre to decent. I will be very surprised and eating an oversized helping of crow if we see sustained high level success under a coach who has never in 20+ years been able to accomplish that.

What? Jones has coached teams that did major damage in the NCAA tourney

Hence the use of the word SUSTAINED. What happened shortly after those deep runs at UVA? How many runs of sustained high level success did he have at American?

(11-01-2017 10:20 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 10:18 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 10:12 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I guess we will see. Based on JJ's record it would be major change if we were to see a great deal of improvement sustained. This is the easy part, going from mediocre to decent. I will be very surprised and eating an oversized helping of crow if we see sustained high level success under a coach who has never in 20+ years been able to accomplish that.

Recruiting points to that it is happening. Now, will the coaching style allow this progress? Every head coach needs to either 1). Recruit players that fit your system...or 2) Adapt to the players that you have recruited that don't fit your system. Will Jones adapt? These guys are GREAT in transition. Let them go coach.

The other thing to consider is that he has had a handful of very good teams over is 20 years, but always returns to mediocrity in the long run. Are we just seeing one of those occasional good cycles? I sure hope not, because 1 or 2 good years getting us another 5 bad years would be the worst possible scenario to me. I would rather suck for one more year and make a change than just see him do enough to keep his job then revert back to mediocrity.

Also, the recruiting has been solid, and compared to what we have seen up until the last 2 classes is very good, but it is still not ranked at the top of CUSA. I guess we will see where we are after the most recent commit, but prior to that, this year's class was 4th. That is not killing it unless you only compare it to his previous classes.

... and this

(11-01-2017 12:32 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 11:30 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 10:12 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I guess we will see. Based on JJ's record it would be major change if we were to see a great deal of improvement sustained. This is the easy part, going from mediocre to decent. I will be very surprised and eating an oversized helping of crow if we see sustained high level success under a coach who has never in 20+ years been able to accomplish that.

What? Jones has coached teams that did major damage in the NCAA tourney

Hence the use of the word SUSTAINED. What happened shortly after those deep runs at UVA? How many runs of sustained high level success did he have at American?

Im not sure your definition of sustained, but UVA was consistently good under his watch. They essentially had 1 bad year and he was gone.

21 wins- tourney
20 wins- NIT champ
21 wins-tourney
18 wins- tourney
25 wins- tourney
12 wins
18 wins-tourney
11 wins (gone)

At American, they were a consistently good Patriot league team outside of his first year and 2 others (out of 13 seasons). Unless sustained is being a great team every single year you are the coach, I don't see how success was not sustained.

(11-01-2017 12:34 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 10:20 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 10:18 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 10:12 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I guess we will see. Based on JJ's record it would be major change if we were to see a great deal of improvement sustained. This is the easy part, going from mediocre to decent. I will be very surprised and eating an oversized helping of crow if we see sustained high level success under a coach who has never in 20+ years been able to accomplish that.

Recruiting points to that it is happening. Now, will the coaching style allow this progress? Every head coach needs to either 1). Recruit players that fit your system...or 2) Adapt to the players that you have recruited that don't fit your system. Will Jones adapt? These guys are GREAT in transition. Let them go coach.

The other thing to consider is that he has had a handful of very good teams over is 20 years, but always returns to mediocrity in the long run. Are we just seeing one of those occasional good cycles? I sure hope not, because 1 or 2 good years getting us another 5 bad years would be the worst possible scenario to me. I would rather suck for one more year and make a change than just see him do enough to keep his job then revert back to mediocrity.

Also, the recruiting has been solid, and compared to what we have seen up until the last 2 classes is very good, but it is still not ranked at the top of CUSA. I guess we will see where we are after the most recent commit, but prior to that, this year's class was 4th. That is not killing it unless you only compare it to his previous classes.

... and this

I don't even know what this means? Is the long run the last year he coached? He had a 58% win percentage at UVA, 54% at American, and 64% at ODU. He's consistently coached good teams with a "handful" of bad seasons, but no bad seasons were sustained....hey, how about that!

I'm confused about why some people seem to think losing to Towson is some sort of scarlet-letter moment. They could end up winning the CAA, and while I think conference RPI is a dodgy way to determine the quality of a conference or the difficulty in winning it, the CAA has been consistently higher in that metric than CUSA. ODU has suffered far more embarrassing losses in the past few years just in conference play.

Put another way: If ODU wins, and they should certainly expect to win at home, then there's a distinct possibility that they'll have a top-100 win on their resume. Even if it's a program that lost 41 straight a few years ago.

(11-01-2017 01:36 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I'm confused about why some people seem to think losing to Towson is some sort of scarlet-letter moment. They could end up winning the CAA, and while I think conference RPI is a dodgy way to determine the quality of a conference or the difficulty in winning it, the CAA has been consistently higher in that metric than CUSA. ODU has suffered far more embarrassing losses in the past few years just in conference play.

Put another way: If ODU wins, and they should certainly expect to win at home, then there's a distinct possibility that they'll have a top-100 win on their resume. Even if it's a program that lost 41 straight a few years ago.

That's all fine and dandy, but at least wait until we do in fact lose before making excuses.

(11-01-2017 01:36 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I'm confused about why some people seem to think losing to Towson is some sort of scarlet-letter moment. They could end up winning the CAA, and while I think conference RPI is a dodgy way to determine the quality of a conference or the difficulty in winning it, the CAA has been consistently higher in that metric than CUSA. ODU has suffered far more embarrassing losses in the past few years just in conference play.

Put another way: If ODU wins, and they should certainly expect to win at home, then there's a distinct possibility that they'll have a top-100 win on their resume. Even if it's a program that lost 41 straight a few years ago.

We may not even be favored to win to be honest though (maybe by a couple points?), I think the line will be short either way.

(11-01-2017 01:39 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 01:36 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I'm confused about why some people seem to think losing to Towson is some sort of scarlet-letter moment. They could end up winning the CAA, and while I think conference RPI is a dodgy way to determine the quality of a conference or the difficulty in winning it, the CAA has been consistently higher in that metric than CUSA. ODU has suffered far more embarrassing losses in the past few years just in conference play.

Put another way: If ODU wins, and they should certainly expect to win at home, then there's a distinct possibility that they'll have a top-100 win on their resume. Even if it's a program that lost 41 straight a few years ago.

That's all fine and dandy, but at least wait until we do in fact lose before making excuses.

Is letting everyone know that this team is better than they realize an excuse?

(11-01-2017 01:39 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 01:36 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I'm confused about why some people seem to think losing to Towson is some sort of scarlet-letter moment. They could end up winning the CAA, and while I think conference RPI is a dodgy way to determine the quality of a conference or the difficulty in winning it, the CAA has been consistently higher in that metric than CUSA. ODU has suffered far more embarrassing losses in the past few years just in conference play.

Put another way: If ODU wins, and they should certainly expect to win at home, then there's a distinct possibility that they'll have a top-100 win on their resume. Even if it's a program that lost 41 straight a few years ago.

That's all fine and dandy, but at least wait until we do in fact lose before making excuses.

Not excuses, just pointing out that this isn't the same Towson that was the shame of the CAA for so long.

(11-01-2017 01:40 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  We may not even be favored to win to be honest though (maybe by a couple points?), I think the line will be short either way.

Which is certainly possible. I do feel fairly good about the team based on the recent reports, but dominating a scrimmage is of course not the same as winning a for-real game. I'd think a spread of 4-5 points, maybe a bit more?

(11-01-2017 01:45 PM)odu09 Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 01:39 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 01:36 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I'm confused about why some people seem to think losing to Towson is some sort of scarlet-letter moment. They could end up winning the CAA, and while I think conference RPI is a dodgy way to determine the quality of a conference or the difficulty in winning it, the CAA has been consistently higher in that metric than CUSA. ODU has suffered far more embarrassing losses in the past few years just in conference play.

Put another way: If ODU wins, and they should certainly expect to win at home, then there's a distinct possibility that they'll have a top-100 win on their resume. Even if it's a program that lost 41 straight a few years ago.

That's all fine and dandy, but at least wait until we do in fact lose before making excuses.

Is letting everyone know that this team is better than they realize an excuse?

No, but it was put in the context of an excuse:

Quote:Towson might actually be pretty good this year too. Just want to say it here first in case we lose the home opener that we all don't completely lose our minds in early November. Some have picked them to win CAA

(11-01-2017 01:24 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 12:34 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 10:20 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 10:18 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 10:12 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I guess we will see. Based on JJ's record it would be major change if we were to see a great deal of improvement sustained. This is the easy part, going from mediocre to decent. I will be very surprised and eating an oversized helping of crow if we see sustained high level success under a coach who has never in 20+ years been able to accomplish that.

Recruiting points to that it is happening. Now, will the coaching style allow this progress? Every head coach needs to either 1). Recruit players that fit your system...or 2) Adapt to the players that you have recruited that don't fit your system. Will Jones adapt? These guys are GREAT in transition. Let them go coach.

The other thing to consider is that he has had a handful of very good teams over is 20 years, but always returns to mediocrity in the long run. Are we just seeing one of those occasional good cycles? I sure hope not, because 1 or 2 good years getting us another 5 bad years would be the worst possible scenario to me. I would rather suck for one more year and make a change than just see him do enough to keep his job then revert back to mediocrity.

Also, the recruiting has been solid, and compared to what we have seen up until the last 2 classes is very good, but it is still not ranked at the top of CUSA. I guess we will see where we are after the most recent commit, but prior to that, this year's class was 4th. That is not killing it unless you only compare it to his previous classes.

... and this

I don't even know what this means? Is the long run the last year he coached? He had a 58% win percentage at UVA, 54% at American, and 64% at ODU. He's consistently coached good teams with a "handful" of bad seasons, but no bad seasons were sustained....hey, how about that!

What???? None of those winning percentages are good. ODU is the only one that is even decent.

(11-01-2017 01:36 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I'm confused about why some people seem to think losing to Towson is some sort of scarlet-letter moment. They could end up winning the CAA, and while I think conference RPI is a dodgy way to determine the quality of a conference or the difficulty in winning it, the CAA has been consistently higher in that metric than CUSA. ODU has suffered far more embarrassing losses in the past few years just in conference play.

Put another way: If ODU wins, and they should certainly expect to win at home, then there's a distinct possibility that they'll have a top-100 win on their resume. Even if it's a program that lost 41 straight a few years ago.

Because pre-BT meltdown we were at a level that we should not have lost to even a "good" Towson team. I am not willing to accept a new normal and start making comparisons based on what we are now, rather than what we have been when we aligned our resources correctly.

(11-01-2017 02:07 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 01:24 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 12:34 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 10:20 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 10:18 AM)757ODU Wrote:  Recruiting points to that it is happening. Now, will the coaching style allow this progress? Every head coach needs to either 1). Recruit players that fit your system...or 2) Adapt to the players that you have recruited that don't fit your system. Will Jones adapt? These guys are GREAT in transition. Let them go coach.

The other thing to consider is that he has had a handful of very good teams over is 20 years, but always returns to mediocrity in the long run. Are we just seeing one of those occasional good cycles? I sure hope not, because 1 or 2 good years getting us another 5 bad years would be the worst possible scenario to me. I would rather suck for one more year and make a change than just see him do enough to keep his job then revert back to mediocrity.

Also, the recruiting has been solid, and compared to what we have seen up until the last 2 classes is very good, but it is still not ranked at the top of CUSA. I guess we will see where we are after the most recent commit, but prior to that, this year's class was 4th. That is not killing it unless you only compare it to his previous classes.

... and this

I don't even know what this means? Is the long run the last year he coached? He had a 58% win percentage at UVA, 54% at American, and 64% at ODU. He's consistently coached good teams with a "handful" of bad seasons, but no bad seasons were sustained....hey, how about that!

What???? None of those winning percentages are good. ODU is the only one that is even decent.

He inherited a top 10 program at UVA and it took the program 20 years to recover from the damage he did. I'll grant him that he was still in his 20s or early 30s at the time and had some growing up to do and really don't take anything from that. It is easy to win with top recruits falling in your lap and it is also easy to let it get to your head and get into trouble at ~30 years old. For American, he did a relatively decent job at a place with no expectations and an environment where the competition was all above board in recruiting. This is a different animal here. He isn't somewhere at a 10 10 program with recruits falling in his lap and he isn't at a place with no expectations and an environment where the competition was all above board in recruiting. We'll see what happens. Results have been mediocre thus far, but I'll grant him that I am more optimistic about the future now than I have been since his NIT run. We really need a good year, especially after this football season. And by good, I mean if not the NCAAs then another NIT run AND preseason #1 in the CUSA the following season.

(11-01-2017 02:05 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 01:45 PM)odu09 Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 01:39 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 01:36 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I'm confused about why some people seem to think losing to Towson is some sort of scarlet-letter moment. They could end up winning the CAA, and while I think conference RPI is a dodgy way to determine the quality of a conference or the difficulty in winning it, the CAA has been consistently higher in that metric than CUSA. ODU has suffered far more embarrassing losses in the past few years just in conference play.

Put another way: If ODU wins, and they should certainly expect to win at home, then there's a distinct possibility that they'll have a top-100 win on their resume. Even if it's a program that lost 41 straight a few years ago.

That's all fine and dandy, but at least wait until we do in fact lose before making excuses.

Is letting everyone know that this team is better than they realize an excuse?

No, but it was put in the context of an excuse:

Quote:Towson might actually be pretty good this year too. Just want to say it here first in case we lose the home opener that we all don't completely lose our minds in early November. Some have picked them to win CAA

Alright. I guess I just don't understand where the excuse is, but it's all good. I would also rather not lose to Towson.

(11-01-2017 02:10 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 01:36 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I'm confused about why some people seem to think losing to Towson is some sort of scarlet-letter moment. They could end up winning the CAA, and while I think conference RPI is a dodgy way to determine the quality of a conference or the difficulty in winning it, the CAA has been consistently higher in that metric than CUSA. ODU has suffered far more embarrassing losses in the past few years just in conference play.

Put another way: If ODU wins, and they should certainly expect to win at home, then there's a distinct possibility that they'll have a top-100 win on their resume. Even if it's a program that lost 41 straight a few years ago.

Because pre-BT meltdown we were at a level that we should not have lost to even a "good" Towson team. I am not willing to accept a new normal and start making comparisons based on what we are now, rather than what we have been when we aligned our resources correctly.

Now you've raised a whole other point. Are you in the "we put too much into football" camp, should have stayed I-AA, and it's hurting MBB and WBB? If that's the case, the new "normal" is that unless some people drop a whole bunch of money committed to MBB, our resources in that sport and WBB aren't going to be the same as when BT was coach. You may know more about how we align our resources than I do; If you say you do, I'll give you that. I'm of the opinion they;re doing the best they can at the moment, and working hard to be better, more affluent.

How was UVA a top 10 program?

They won 13 games ( no tourney), 22 (5 seed), and 20 games (7 seed) the 3 prior years. They weren't even ranked in the top 25 in the 7 years prior to win Jeff Jones took over. They were then ranked in the top 25 the first year he took over and 3 additional years out of the 8 years he was at UVA.

I have to smile, some will just never give JJ his due. I agree we can always aspire for more, but he has gotten it done with these last two classes. If he is half the in game coach everyone says he is we will be just fine

(11-01-2017 02:36 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  I have to smile, some will just never give JJ his due. I agree we can always aspire for more, but he has gotten it done with these last two classes. If he is half the in game coach everyone says he is we will be just fine

I gave him his due. I excused his UVA tenure due to his age and inexperience, I said he did a decent job at American given the circumstances, and I am more optimistic about the future now than I have been since his NIT run. What more do you want exactly? Comparisons to Coach K and Dean Smith? Yes, he is recruiting better the last 2 classes. We still have to perform.