(09-15-2017 10:38 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:34 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  And that is the problem. Too many in this country care more about laws than they do about people.
If that continues, we are lost as a country.

Basically you want a lawless nation as long as it gives you warm fuzzies inside.

That's about the size of most leftist thinking.

(09-14-2017 04:10 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(09-14-2017 01:48 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  More of a compromise and reach across the isle guy than Obama ever was.

Well I'm sure you think Trump can walk on water so it's probably not hard for him to reach across an isle.
Funny how he finally starts trying to work with Democrats and the conservative Republicans are freaking out.
There is hope for the Supreme Court after all.

Frankly, I think Trump and most of the republicans are pretty much worthless. That does not make them worse than democrats, though.

The Rs and Ds give me a choice between someone that I disagree with 90% of the time, or someone that I disagree with 99% of the time. No thanks to either.

(09-15-2017 10:42 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:40 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Why not make a deal with the dreamers.
Have them build the wall in exchange for citizenship.

I have a better deal. How about they pack their **** and go back to their home country.

But here's the problem with that. You send 10 million back to Mexico and it becomes a failed state. Do we really want Somalia on our southern border? We send bad the bad actors, and give work permits to the ones we want to keep because they bring useful skills. Nobody gets a path to citizenship without speaking English and either 1) coming here legally or 2) serving honorably in the military.

(09-15-2017 11:28 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:38 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:34 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  And that is the problem. Too many in this country care more about laws than they do about people.
If that continues, we are lost as a country.

Basically you want a lawless nation as long as it gives you warm fuzzies inside.

That's about the size of most leftist thinking.

Man was not made for the laws but laws for man.

(09-15-2017 11:39 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 11:28 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:38 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:34 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  And that is the problem. Too many in this country care more about laws than they do about people.
If that continues, we are lost as a country.

Basically you want a lawless nation as long as it gives you warm fuzzies inside.

That's about the size of most leftist thinking.

Man was not made for the laws but laws for man.

And those laws help man (and woman) most when they are observed. Places--and the people who live in those places--do better when they respect the rule of law.

(09-15-2017 11:39 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 11:28 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:38 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:34 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  And that is the problem. Too many in this country care more about laws than they do about people.
If that continues, we are lost as a country.

Basically you want a lawless nation as long as it gives you warm fuzzies inside.

That's about the size of most leftist thinking.

Man was not made for the laws but laws for man.

where did you copy this from?
Will you feel the same way when your wife gets mugged by an illegal.

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The laws are made democratically. You don't believe in a nation of laws...you don't believe in democracy.

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(09-15-2017 11:51 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 11:39 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 11:28 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:38 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:34 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  And that is the problem. Too many in this country care more about laws than they do about people.
If that continues, we are lost as a country.

Basically you want a lawless nation as long as it gives you warm fuzzies inside.

That's about the size of most leftist thinking.

Man was not made for the laws but laws for man.

And those laws help man (and woman) most when they are observed. Places--and the people who live in those places--do better when they respect the rule of law.

I agree. No one here is saying we should stop obeying laws. We are talking about making exceptions for people for which the law was never intended.

(09-15-2017 12:22 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 11:51 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 11:39 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 11:28 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:38 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  Basically you want a lawless nation as long as it gives you warm fuzzies inside.

That's about the size of most leftist thinking.

Man was not made for the laws but laws for man.

And those laws help man (and woman) most when they are observed. Places--and the people who live in those places--do better when they respect the rule of law.

I agree. No one here is saying we should stop obeying laws. We are talking about making exceptions for people for which the law was never intended.

What? Laws about illegal immigration and deportation are intended for illegal immigrants.

(09-15-2017 11:14 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:53 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  Look, trump said during the campaign he was not after the Dreamers... He wanted an unconstitutional move by obama sticken and congress to act. The GOP wants to drag their damn feet so he will work with the dems.

Am I concerned that the dems will eventually just snap at the hand that's feeding them? Yes.
Do I think the dems are right on immigration? No.

I hope this wakes up the GOP establishment to the fact Trump is not beholden to them.

Nor is he patient or willing to take the bad PR hit from the extreme stream media. He'll work with damn near anyone to "get something done", even if that something is likely the wrong thing.

It's almost as if the establishment GOP has joined the "resist" movement, only silently and from the other side.
Problem for them is the Rep voters will toss them too, like we did Cantor In Va. Not applaud their efforts like the left does.

How they don't see this is beyond me. Signing their own death certificate.

Some fake news site reported a fake news about an email from Paul Ryan that he was in cahoots with Hillary Clinton to get her win over Trump. Also involved McConnell and several other Republicans that are establishment. As it is, there is a movement in both parties that are against the establishment leaders. There are movements on both sides want to remove Pelosi and Ryan, and some movement in the Senate to remove Schumer and McConnell. If that is true? McCain, Collins and Murkowski saved Trump from signing a disastrous healthcare bill that was put together by Ryan and McConnell.

(09-15-2017 11:38 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:42 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:40 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Why not make a deal with the dreamers.
Have them build the wall in exchange for citizenship.

I have a better deal. How about they pack their **** and go back to their home country.

But here's the problem with that. You send 10 million back to Mexico and it becomes a failed state. Do we really want Somalia on our southern border? We send bad the bad actors, and give work permits to the ones we want to keep because they bring useful skills. Nobody gets a path to citizenship without speaking English and either 1) coming here legally or 2) serving honorably in the military.

News flash....Mexico IS a failed state. The cartels run that corrupt country, not the government. The government is for sale to the highest bidder.

Send their ass home and if Mexico fails we militarize the border and serve notice anybody coming across is a threat to our national security and will be treated as such.

(09-15-2017 11:38 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:42 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:40 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Why not make a deal with the dreamers.
Have them build the wall in exchange for citizenship.

I have a better deal. How about they pack their **** and go back to their home country.

But here's the problem with that. You send 10 million back to Mexico and it becomes a failed state. Do we really want Somalia on our southern border? We send bad the bad actors, and give work permits to the ones we want to keep because they bring useful skills. Nobody gets a path to citizenship without speaking English and either 1) coming here legally or 2) serving honorably in the military.

I wouldn't have a problem with that. Most of these dreamers already know English anyway.

(09-15-2017 01:06 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 11:38 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:42 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:40 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Why not make a deal with the dreamers.
Have them build the wall in exchange for citizenship.

I have a better deal. How about they pack their **** and go back to their home country.

But here's the problem with that. You send 10 million back to Mexico and it becomes a failed state. Do we really want Somalia on our southern border? We send bad the bad actors, and give work permits to the ones we want to keep because they bring useful skills. Nobody gets a path to citizenship without speaking English and either 1) coming here legally or 2) serving honorably in the military.

News flash....Mexico IS a failed state. The cartels run that corrupt country, not the government. The government is for sale to the highest bidder.

Send their ass home and if Mexico fails we militarize the border and serve notice anybody coming across is a threat to our national security and will be treated as such.

Nailed it as usual Kap. +1

(09-15-2017 01:06 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 11:38 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:42 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:40 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Why not make a deal with the dreamers.
Have them build the wall in exchange for citizenship.

I have a better deal. How about they pack their **** and go back to their home country.

But here's the problem with that. You send 10 million back to Mexico and it becomes a failed state. Do we really want Somalia on our southern border? We send bad the bad actors, and give work permits to the ones we want to keep because they bring useful skills. Nobody gets a path to citizenship without speaking English and either 1) coming here legally or 2) serving honorably in the military.

News flash....Mexico IS a failed state. The cartels run that corrupt country, not the government. The government is for sale to the highest bidder.

Send their ass home and if Mexico fails we militarize the border and serve notice anybody coming across is a threat to our national security and will be treated as such.

If I was elected President as a Democrat? I add more money to Border Patrol enforcement officers and moved troops to the border of Mexico to Patrol. It is cheaper than buying a fricken expensive wall and the upkeep of it. This could spur the leaders of Mexico to crack down on their corrupt police officers and the military who are on the payroll of the cartel.

(09-15-2017 01:47 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  If I was elected President as a Democrat? I add more money to Border Patrol enforcement officers and moved troops to the border of Mexico to Patrol. It is cheaper than buying a fricken expensive wall and the upkeep of it. This could spur the leaders of Mexico to crack down on their corrupt police officers and the military who are on the payroll of the cartel.

That would be the logical thing to do.

You have to understand however that the people who want a border wall and want all the dreamers deported are not thinking logically but rather emotionally.

(09-15-2017 01:47 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  If I was elected President as a Democrat? I add more money to Border Patrol enforcement officers and moved troops to the border of Mexico to Patrol. It is cheaper than buying a fricken expensive wall and the upkeep of it. This could spur the leaders of Mexico to crack down on their corrupt police officers and the military who are on the payroll of the cartel.

Posse Comitatus will cause you issues with deploying troops. Border Patrol officers cannot be at every point on the border.

Physical barriers, drones, electronic sensors, CCTV systems are required to maximize coverage...essentially, a wall.

And before you start...no a wall cannot stop everyone. But it can raise the costs for Coyotes to the point where they can't make money on what border crossers are capable of paying...and border crossers will be increasingly unwilling to pay large amounts when the chance of failure is higher.



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(09-15-2017 02:23 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 01:47 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  If I was elected President as a Democrat? I add more money to Border Patrol enforcement officers and moved troops to the border of Mexico to Patrol. It is cheaper than buying a fricken expensive wall and the upkeep of it. This could spur the leaders of Mexico to crack down on their corrupt police officers and the military who are on the payroll of the cartel.

That would be the logical thing to do.

You have to understand however that the people who want a border wall and want all the dreamers deported are not thinking logically but rather emotionally.

I want the Dreamers deported because it caused a bigger issues with our out of control health care costs since the 1980s to the lack of jobs, plus the disastrous fair trade deals and the the biggest corporations and million and billionaires dodge to avoid paying taxes by moving their money offshores. Something needs to change, and even the Republicans seemed to not care for the American people who are struggling as well. Free market for health care have not worked for everybody for a long time. I do think smart business leaders do believe in a single payer option because they could pay one fee into it for their employees without having the headaches of trying to juggling running the businesses and all that. We are the only country not using that method. That is why we are way behind 2nd tier world countries on this issue. We need to have something fair and be treated equals, but there are many of us are being pushed down, and stayed down because of our politicians from both parties. The one issue is the amnesty of all the Illegals and their children. Anything to let Dreamers stay is amnesty.

(09-15-2017 01:47 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  If I was elected President as a Democrat? I add more money to Border Patrol enforcement officers and moved troops to the border of Mexico to Patrol.

Uggggg Troops can't act as police within the united states to enforce domestic polity. So you're saying if you were elected president as a democrat the first thing you would do is ignore federal law.

Kinda like the last democratic president we had..

(09-15-2017 02:42 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 01:47 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  If I was elected President as a Democrat? I add more money to Border Patrol enforcement officers and moved troops to the border of Mexico to Patrol. It is cheaper than buying a fricken expensive wall and the upkeep of it. This could spur the leaders of Mexico to crack down on their corrupt police officers and the military who are on the payroll of the cartel.

Posse Comitatus will cause you issues with deploying troops. Border Patrol officers cannot be at every point on the border.

Physical barriers, drones, electronic sensors, CCTV systems are required to maximize coverage...essentially, a wall.

And before you start...no a wall cannot stop everyone. But it can raise the costs for Coyotes to the point where they can't make money on what border crossers are capable of paying...and border crossers will be increasingly unwilling to pay large amounts when the chance of failure is higher.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

There is a way around that. You just buy or (seize if necessary) adequate amounts of adjacent land on our Southern border and declare it part of a military reservation. Then you simply do as any other military reservation by enforcing trespass laws and allowing or denying entry at checkpoints.