Of all people, Newt Gingrich said that if Trump ends DACA, he would be using the undocumented immigrants as hostages to force the hand of Congress.

(09-05-2017 10:18 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Of all people, Newt Gingrich said that if Trump ends DACA, he would be using the undocumented immigrants as hostages to force the hand of Congress.

I like Newt----but thats just dumb. Hostages? Nobody is holding them hostage. Hostages are held against thier will. It's like somebody has snuck into your spare bedroom and refused to leave. Turns out your 8 year old son said it was ok. Now, they demand to stay even though the 8 year old didn't really have the authority to let them live there. Hardly a "hostage".

Obama caused this problem when he promised them something he didn't have the power to deliver. The kids parents caused this problem when they brought thier children here illegally. The kids themselves, many of whom are adults, are also at fault as they chose to build a life in country where they knew they were not legal citizens.

In the end, Either the congress makes it law or it doesn't. There is plenty of blame to go around. Comparing it to a hostage situation couldn't be a less relavent analogy.

(09-05-2017 10:42 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 10:18 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Of all people, Newt Gingrich said that if Trump ends DACA, he would be using the undocumented immigrants as hostages to force the hand of Congress.

I like Newt----but thats just dumb. Hostages? Nobody is holding them hostage. Hostages are held against thier will. It's like somebody has snuck into your spare bedroom and refused to leave. Turns out your 8 year old son said it was ok. Now, they demand to stay even though the 8 year old didn't really have the authority to let them live there. Hardly a "hostage".

Obama caused this problem when he promised them something he didn't have the power to deliver. The kids parents caused this problem when they brought thier children here illegally. The kids themselves, many of whom are adults, are also at fault as they chose to build a life in country where they knew they were not legal citizens.

In the end, Either the congress makes it law or it doesn't. There is plenty of blame to go around. Comparing it to a hostage situation couldn't be a less relavent analogy.

But many of these children actually grew up no knowing they were themselves illegal. They grew up speaking English, went to public schools and even some went to and finished college.

That is a lot of tax payer money. Why would we send them back when we as tax payers invested so much into making them productive.

It doesn't make any sense. We should be allowing them to stay and work here and pay taxes.

But how do you justify sending a kid to a country he has never been to and doesn't even know the language?
[/quote from Fit]



That is a crock of shite and you know it. Most parents of these kids don't speak anything but Spanish so that idea just went out the window. I know because I know A LOT of people that came to the US and never really learned English. Heck, you can see them on TV here in El Paso speaking Spanish when interviewed. These kids KNOW Spanish otherwise they wouldn't be able to communicate with their parents. The children are truly bi-lingual, the parents for the most part, NO.

Personally, I do feel for the kids though. It's not their fault that they were brought here by their parents and yes it would pose a minor problem because even though they are cultured into our society they might feel a little "alienated" (there's that word again) into a Mexican repatriation. Those kids have aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc. etc. so they wouldn't be entirely lost in a Mexican, Central American, etc. society.

So after all this what course of action would I take? Let those kids that have proven to be good Americans, let them carry identification so that others wanting in at this time don't get a chance to intermingle with the current crop of Dreamers. In other words creating a barrier against more wanna-be-dreamers. Those that have committed crimes should be sent back, too bad-so sad, you're going back.

(09-05-2017 12:23 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  But how do you justify sending a kid to a country he has never been to and doesn't even know the language?

That is a crock of shite and you know it. Most parents of these kids don't speak anything but Spanish so that idea just went out the window. I know because I know A LOT of people that came to the US and never really learned English. Heck, you can see them on TV here in El Paso speaking Spanish when interviewed. These kids KNOW Spanish otherwise they wouldn't be able to communicate with their parents. The children are truly bi-lingual, the parents for the most part, NO.

Personally, I do feel for the kids though. It's not their fault that they were brought here by their parents and yes it would pose a minor problem because even though they are cultured into our society they might feel a little "alienated" (there's that word again) into a Mexican repatriation. Those kids have aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc. etc. so they wouldn't be entirely lost in a Mexican, Central American, etc. society.

So after all this what course of action would I take? Let those kids that have proven to be good Americans, let them carry identification so that others wanting in at this time don't get a chance to intermingle with the current crop of Dreamers. In other words creating a barrier against more wanna-be-dreamers. Those that have committed crimes should be sent back, too bad-so sad, you're going back.
[/quote]
A bunch of them came willingly. There is no my parents brought me when I was 3 years old requirement in DACA.

Superfly, that was a Fit quote not mine. I'll make my quoting better next time.

Let's put responsibility where it belongs, the parents of these poorly named "Dreamers."

The only people anybody should be mad at are them.

I see the US as having zero moral responsibility to those individuals.

(09-05-2017 12:13 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 10:42 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 10:18 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Of all people, Newt Gingrich said that if Trump ends DACA, he would be using the undocumented immigrants as hostages to force the hand of Congress.

I like Newt----but thats just dumb. Hostages? Nobody is holding them hostage. Hostages are held against thier will. It's like somebody has snuck into your spare bedroom and refused to leave. Turns out your 8 year old son said it was ok. Now, they demand to stay even though the 8 year old didn't really have the authority to let them live there. Hardly a "hostage".

Obama caused this problem when he promised them something he didn't have the power to deliver. The kids parents caused this problem when they brought thier children here illegally. The kids themselves, many of whom are adults, are also at fault as they chose to build a life in country where they knew they were not legal citizens.

In the end, Either the congress makes it law or it doesn't. There is plenty of blame to go around. Comparing it to a hostage situation couldn't be a less relavent analogy.

But many of these children actually grew up no knowing they were themselves illegal. They grew up speaking English, went to public schools and even some went to and finished college.

That is a lot of tax payer money. Why would we send them back when we as tax payers invested so much into making them productive.

It doesn't make any sense. We should be allowing them to stay and work here and pay taxes.

So, because we broke the law for 20 years, why shouldnt we continue to break the law? Let me ask you this---Should Trump have maintained the travel bans that the courts struck down simply because he wanted to?

As Ive said, I personally think something will be worked out, but this isnt a monarchy. Obama treated this decision as if he were a king and not a president. Thats how we got into this mess. More of the same is not the answer. Congress either keeps them or they get sent home to their proper country. Its not a edict that the president can make on his own. Congress is the only body with the power to fix this.

(09-05-2017 12:30 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  Superfly, that was a Fit quote not mine. I'll make my quoting better next time.

(09-05-2017 12:49 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Let's put responsibility where it belongs, the parents of these poorly named "Dreamers."

The only people anybody should be mad at are them.

I see the US as having zero moral responsibility to those individuals.

I guess if youre brown or black, you can punish the kids for the parents' crimes, is the thinking here.

Trump is a racist/white supremacist and that really the beginning and end of it. There's no need to really try to analyze it further.

And lets not even start on obeying procedure, after his pardoning of Arpaio's racism in Arizona.

BTW, some of y'all in here got really upset when I complained about the GOP Congress/Trump providing permanent residence status to a white foreign child for purposes of getting medical treatment. But then again, that child was white. And therefore, in Trump's estimation, worthy of accommodation. In other words, whites are supreme in Trumpland.

(09-05-2017 02:06 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 12:49 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Let's put responsibility where it belongs, the parents of these poorly named "Dreamers."

The only people anybody should be mad at are them.

I see the US as having zero moral responsibility to those individuals.

I guess if youre brown or black, you can punish the kids for the parents' crimes, is the thinking here.

Trump is a racist/white supremacist and that really the beginning and end of it. There's no need to really try to analyze it further.

And lets not even start on obeying procedure, after his pardoning of Arpaio's racism in Arizona.

BTW, some of y'all in here got really upset when I complained about the GOP Congress/Trump providing permanent residence status to a white foreign child for purposes of getting medical treatment. But then again, that child was white. And therefore, in Trump's estimation, worthy of accommodation. In other words, whites are supreme in Trumpland.

Virtually all immigration to the USA, since 65', has come from Black and Brown countries. Why is the USA so racist against White Europeans?

(09-05-2017 12:49 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Let's put responsibility where it belongs, the parents of these poorly named "Dreamers."

The only people anybody should be mad at are them.

I see the US as having zero moral responsibility to those individuals.

We don't have a moral responsibility to these "dreamers" but what about the investment?

Think of it in mostly business terms. We invested a lot of taxpayer money into educating these kids. It makes financial sense that we allow them to stay and pay back in taxes what they got in free education and other welfare programs.

It makes no sense to harbor these individuals when they were completely dependent on the government and let them go back now that we have properly educated them and they have the ability to contribute to society.

(09-05-2017 02:22 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 12:49 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Let's put responsibility where it belongs, the parents of these poorly named "Dreamers."

The only people anybody should be mad at are them.

I see the US as having zero moral responsibility to those individuals.

We don't have a moral responsibility to these "dreamers" but what about the investment?

Think of it in mostly business terms. We invested a lot of taxpayer money into educating these kids. It makes financial sense that we allow them to stay and pay back in taxes what they got in free education and other welfare programs.

It makes no sense to harbor these individuals when they were completely dependent on the government and let them go back now that we have properly educated them and they have the ability to contribute to society.

That's some warped logic.

We gave them something they didn't deserve so now we have to give them more of something they don't deserve?

American millenials have been dealt a hard blow, now this--giving illegal aliens a leg up and moral cover.

Besides, a great deal of these illegals are on assistance of some kind.

(09-05-2017 02:06 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Trump is a racist/white supremacist and that really the beginning and end of it.

Yeah, that schtick is old. Time to find some new material.

(09-05-2017 02:22 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 12:49 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Let's put responsibility where it belongs, the parents of these poorly named "Dreamers."

The only people anybody should be mad at are them.

I see the US as having zero moral responsibility to those individuals.

We don't have a moral responsibility to these "dreamers" but what about the investment?

Think of it in mostly business terms. We invested a lot of taxpayer money into educating these kids. It makes financial sense that we allow them to stay and pay back in taxes what they got in free education and other welfare programs.

It makes no sense to harbor these individuals when they were completely dependent on the government and let them go back now that we have properly educated them and they have the ability to contribute to society.

When you mention investing taxpayer $$$ in educating them I assume you're talking about public education. If that's the case, I'm not too hopeful about the quality of education they received.

We should be ashamed of ourselves for letting our public education degrade to its current state.

(09-05-2017 02:31 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 02:22 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 12:49 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Let's put responsibility where it belongs, the parents of these poorly named "Dreamers."

The only people anybody should be mad at are them.

I see the US as having zero moral responsibility to those individuals.

We don't have a moral responsibility to these "dreamers" but what about the investment?

Think of it in mostly business terms. We invested a lot of taxpayer money into educating these kids. It makes financial sense that we allow them to stay and pay back in taxes what they got in free education and other welfare programs.

It makes no sense to harbor these individuals when they were completely dependent on the government and let them go back now that we have properly educated them and they have the ability to contribute to society.

That's some warped logic.

We gave them something they didn't deserve so now we have to give them more of something they don't deserve?

American millenials have been dealt a hard blow, now this--giving illegal aliens a leg up and moral cover.

Besides, a great deal of these illegals are on assistance of some kind.

We invested in their future. We should be getting a return on that investment.

Unless of course there is another reason we want them out?

(09-05-2017 02:36 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 02:31 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 02:22 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 12:49 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Let's put responsibility where it belongs, the parents of these poorly named "Dreamers."

The only people anybody should be mad at are them.

I see the US as having zero moral responsibility to those individuals.

We don't have a moral responsibility to these "dreamers" but what about the investment?

Think of it in mostly business terms. We invested a lot of taxpayer money into educating these kids. It makes financial sense that we allow them to stay and pay back in taxes what they got in free education and other welfare programs.

It makes no sense to harbor these individuals when they were completely dependent on the government and let them go back now that we have properly educated them and they have the ability to contribute to society.

That's some warped logic.

We gave them something they didn't deserve so now we have to give them more of something they don't deserve?

American millenials have been dealt a hard blow, now this--giving illegal aliens a leg up and moral cover.

Besides, a great deal of these illegals are on assistance of some kind.

We invested in their future. We should be getting a return on that investment.

Unless of course there is another reason we want them out?

You lost, so insinuate racism!

(09-05-2017 02:06 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I guess if youre brown or black, you can punish the kids for the parents' crimes, is the thinking here.

Maybe in your warped mind.

As I posted earlier.....the child of the embezzler doesn't get to continue to sleep in the house paid for with the ill-gained loot.

The child of a drug dealer doesn't get to keep the car bought for with illicit cash.

These children, also criminals BTW, should not be able to benefit from the criminal behavior of their parents.

The only person making this a race issue is you.

(09-05-2017 02:39 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 02:36 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 02:31 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 02:22 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 12:49 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Let's put responsibility where it belongs, the parents of these poorly named "Dreamers."

The only people anybody should be mad at are them.

I see the US as having zero moral responsibility to those individuals.

We don't have a moral responsibility to these "dreamers" but what about the investment?

Think of it in mostly business terms. We invested a lot of taxpayer money into educating these kids. It makes financial sense that we allow them to stay and pay back in taxes what they got in free education and other welfare programs.

It makes no sense to harbor these individuals when they were completely dependent on the government and let them go back now that we have properly educated them and they have the ability to contribute to society.

That's some warped logic.

We gave them something they didn't deserve so now we have to give them more of something they don't deserve?

American millenials have been dealt a hard blow, now this--giving illegal aliens a leg up and moral cover.

Besides, a great deal of these illegals are on assistance of some kind.

We invested in their future. We should be getting a return on that investment.

Unless of course there is another reason we want them out?

You lost, so insinuate racism!

I have done no such thing. I have simply proven why it doesn't make financial sense to deport them.

The notion that they should be deported because they are criminals has also been dispelled.

So I ask you again. What good reason do you have for wanting to have them all deported?

(09-05-2017 02:51 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 02:39 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 02:36 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 02:31 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 02:22 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  We don't have a moral responsibility to these "dreamers" but what about the investment?

Think of it in mostly business terms. We invested a lot of taxpayer money into educating these kids. It makes financial sense that we allow them to stay and pay back in taxes what they got in free education and other welfare programs.

It makes no sense to harbor these individuals when they were completely dependent on the government and let them go back now that we have properly educated them and they have the ability to contribute to society.

That's some warped logic.

We gave them something they didn't deserve so now we have to give them more of something they don't deserve?

American millenials have been dealt a hard blow, now this--giving illegal aliens a leg up and moral cover.

Besides, a great deal of these illegals are on assistance of some kind.

We invested in their future. We should be getting a return on that investment.

Unless of course there is another reason we want them out?

You lost, so insinuate racism!

I have done no such thing. I have simply proven why it doesn't make financial sense to deport them.

The notion that they should be deported because they are criminals has also been dispelled.

So I ask you again. What good reason do you have for wanting to have them all deported?

1. You should be man enough to stand by your comments.

2. Read my comment, many are welfare recipients. Your sunshine and rainbow hallucinations about who we are talking about is just that, a hallucination.

3. That's moronic. They are by definition criminals. Anything or anybody that says otherwise is completely ignorant.

4. See above.

5. Stick to calling people racists. You have nothing else to add.