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What to do in Afghanistan?
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #41
RE: What to do in Afghanistan?
(08-22-2017 09:41 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(08-21-2017 08:41 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Bumped due to Trumps speech tonight.

Ill say this. I agree with him on several of his points...and I paraphrase... "We will not give the enemy our game plan"....."We will not engage in nation building"...."We will give our armed forces the tools to win."

Looks like we are going to ramp up in Afghanistan and put pressure on the Packis to help in this effort.

You had me until the bold part.

The problem from the beginning - the decision to start a war in Afghanistan in the first place - is that there was never a way in which we could win in the sense that "winning" means for most Americans. And as a result, all subsequent shifts in strategy have tended to be made so "American soldiers will not have died in vain".

But they did die in vain, and there is no changing that. And now, we are asking more soldiers to give their lives (and parents to give their children's lives) until the inevitable day that we finally say we are leaving. It makes tactical sense for us not to announce to the opposition when that will be. But we have now made explicit to them that they need only be patient and they will prevail.

That was as true 15 years ago as it is today.

Thats what China believes about our capitalistic democracy. Same with Russia. Freedom comes with a never ending cost. It must be vigilantly defended or it will be taken away. Our presence in Afghanistan will, like our presence in Korea, be long lasting and near permanent because that is what is required to keep the US safe. The key is to keep the cost in blood and treasure as low as humanly possible. Its not a great solution---but it is the only solution.

Trump hated our involvement there---and yet---once he has been briefed completely on the Afghan situation and the threats to our nation---he has reluctantly reached the conclusion we have to remain there until the situation changes. We both know the situation will never change enough to bring our boys home. Hopefully, it will change enough that we can bring most of them home and those that are there face minimal danger (like a Korean or German situation). Thats probably the best long term outcome. 04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 08-22-2017 02:19 PM by Attackcoog.)
08-22-2017 02:14 PM
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olliebaba Offline
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Post: #42
RE: What to do in Afghanistan?
(08-22-2017 01:28 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(08-22-2017 11:34 AM)olliebaba Wrote:  
(08-22-2017 09:41 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(08-21-2017 08:41 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Bumped due to Trumps speech tonight.

Ill say this. I agree with him on several of his points...and I paraphrase... "We will not give the enemy our game plan"....."We will not engage in nation building"...."We will give our armed forces the tools to win."

Looks like we are going to ramp up in Afghanistan and put pressure on the Packis to help in this effort.

You had me until the bold part.

The problem from the beginning - the decision to start a war in Afghanistan in the first place - is that there was never a way in which we could win in the sense that "winning" means for most Americans. And as a result, all subsequent shifts in strategy have tended to be made so "American soldiers will not have died in vain".

But they did die in vain, and there is no changing that. And now, we are asking more soldiers to give their lives (and parents to give their children's lives) until the inevitable day that we finally say we are leaving. It makes tactical sense for us not to announce to the opposition when that will be. But we have now made explicit to them that they need only be patient and they will prevail.

That was as true 15 years ago as it is today.


Those kids aren't like you Kenny. The minute that they (we) sign(ed) up it's common knowledge that that's what it will be asked of us. That is, fight for our country and perhaps even die. Some parents know this and are proud and some want to coddle theirs. 4 out of 5 brothers in my family knew what we were getting into and signed up to serve. One didn't because he had flat feet that's what he said so I'll take him at his word but he did go to the recruiting station and that's more than many coddled babies nowadays do. I count my neighbors kids in that, too coddled. You must be a liberal, right?

Not to many liberals are in the military, it's probably fear that keeps them from joining.

Your post could not possibly have been more offensive or condescending. It doesn't deserve a response.


But, yet you did.

Truth hurts.
08-22-2017 02:19 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #43
RE: What to do in Afghanistan?
(08-22-2017 01:32 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(08-22-2017 01:28 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(08-22-2017 11:34 AM)olliebaba Wrote:  
(08-22-2017 09:41 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(08-21-2017 08:41 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Bumped due to Trumps speech tonight.

Ill say this. I agree with him on several of his points...and I paraphrase... "We will not give the enemy our game plan"....."We will not engage in nation building"...."We will give our armed forces the tools to win."

Looks like we are going to ramp up in Afghanistan and put pressure on the Packis to help in this effort.

You had me until the bold part.

The problem from the beginning - the decision to start a war in Afghanistan in the first place - is that there was never a way in which we could win in the sense that "winning" means for most Americans. And as a result, all subsequent shifts in strategy have tended to be made so "American soldiers will not have died in vain".

But they did die in vain, and there is no changing that. And now, we are asking more soldiers to give their lives (and parents to give their children's lives) until the inevitable day that we finally say we are leaving. It makes tactical sense for us not to announce to the opposition when that will be. But we have now made explicit to them that they need only be patient and they will prevail.

That was as true 15 years ago as it is today.


Those kids aren't like you Kenny. The minute that they (we) sign(ed) up it's common knowledge that that's what it will be asked of us. That is, fight for our country and perhaps even die. Some parents know this and are proud and some want to coddle theirs. 4 out of 5 brothers in my family knew what we were getting into and signed up to serve. One didn't because he had flat feet that's what he said so I'll take him at his word but he did go to the recruiting station and that's more than many coddled babies nowadays do. I count my neighbors kids in that, too coddled. You must be a liberal, right?

Not to many liberals are in the military, it's probably fear that keeps them from joining.

Your post could not possibly have been more offensive or condescending.
It doesn't deserve a response.

The truth does that at times.

I don't expect you to recognize truth. You are, after all, a conservative.

Now that we both have the snark out of the way, maybe we could talk about Afghanistan policy.

It is very hard to deny that we will leave Afghanistan without anything looking like a military victory. It's also hard to imagine that in the next few years we will be able to ensure an Afghan government that will survive for long.

How long are we willing to stay there? 10 more years? 20? 30? Are we willing to continue to send American soldiers to die for no discernible purpose or American strategic interest? Are we likely to be honest enough to tell our soldiers and their families that this is what we are asking of them?

If I thought for a minute that our stated goal of "killing terrorists" would make America and Americans safer, I would be behind it 100%. But if we kill 1,000 terrorists, and in the process spawn 2,000 more to take their place, will we be safer? We've been killing terrorists in that region by the thousands for years. Has that prevented terrorism from reaching our shores, or the borders of our allies?

I am old enough to recall the arguments that we were fighting in Vietnam to prevent the spread of communism. The premise was that if North Vietnam won, dominoes would begin to fall until we were fighting the Russians and/or Chinese on American soil. That didn't happen either. No American interests were harmed. So it was hard for me then to justify the sacrifice of thousands of young American lives, many of them my friends, neighbors and colleagues. And it's even harder to justify it for the questionable rationale behind the war we started in Afghanistan.
08-22-2017 02:33 PM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #44
RE: What to do in Afghanistan?
(08-22-2017 02:33 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(08-22-2017 01:32 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(08-22-2017 01:28 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(08-22-2017 11:34 AM)olliebaba Wrote:  
(08-22-2017 09:41 AM)ken d Wrote:  You had me until the bold part.

The problem from the beginning - the decision to start a war in Afghanistan in the first place - is that there was never a way in which we could win in the sense that "winning" means for most Americans. And as a result, all subsequent shifts in strategy have tended to be made so "American soldiers will not have died in vain".

But they did die in vain, and there is no changing that. And now, we are asking more soldiers to give their lives (and parents to give their children's lives) until the inevitable day that we finally say we are leaving. It makes tactical sense for us not to announce to the opposition when that will be. But we have now made explicit to them that they need only be patient and they will prevail.

That was as true 15 years ago as it is today.


Those kids aren't like you Kenny. The minute that they (we) sign(ed) up it's common knowledge that that's what it will be asked of us. That is, fight for our country and perhaps even die. Some parents know this and are proud and some want to coddle theirs. 4 out of 5 brothers in my family knew what we were getting into and signed up to serve. One didn't because he had flat feet that's what he said so I'll take him at his word but he did go to the recruiting station and that's more than many coddled babies nowadays do. I count my neighbors kids in that, too coddled. You must be a liberal, right?

Not to many liberals are in the military, it's probably fear that keeps them from joining.

Your post could not possibly have been more offensive or condescending.
It doesn't deserve a response.

The truth does that at times.

I don't expect you to recognize truth. You are, after all, a conservative.

Now that we both have the snark out of the way, maybe we could talk about Afghanistan policy.

It is very hard to deny that we will leave Afghanistan without anything looking like a military victory. It's also hard to imagine that in the next few years we will be able to ensure an Afghan government that will survive for long.

How long are we willing to stay there? 10 more years? 20? 30? Are we willing to continue to send American soldiers to die for no discernible purpose or American strategic interest? Are we likely to be honest enough to tell our soldiers and their families that this is what we are asking of them?

If I thought for a minute that our stated goal of "killing terrorists" would make America and Americans safer, I would be behind it 100%. But if we kill 1,000 terrorists, and in the process spawn 2,000 more to take their place, will we be safer? We've been killing terrorists in that region by the thousands for years. Has that prevented terrorism from reaching our shores, or the borders of our allies?

I am old enough to recall the arguments that we were fighting in Vietnam to prevent the spread of communism. The premise was that if North Vietnam won, dominoes would begin to fall until we were fighting the Russians and/or Chinese on American soil. That didn't happen either. No American interests were harmed. So it was hard for me then to justify the sacrifice of thousands of young American lives, many of them my friends, neighbors and colleagues. And it's even harder to justify it for the questionable rationale behind the war we started in Afghanistan.

Questionable rationale?????
3 numbers----911
Yours is one of the most mind-numbingly stupid comments ever on this board.
You can argue whether continuing is justified or worth the cost, but questioning the beginning rationale is just beyond reason.
It makes the TDSers with their Russian conspiracy look reasonable.
08-22-2017 02:49 PM
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cb4029 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: What to do in Afghanistan?
Osama is dead. Isn't he the reason we started this. Killed by Obama a long time ago. Let's go home.
08-22-2017 02:55 PM
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olliebaba Offline
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Post: #46
RE: What to do in Afghanistan?
The truth does that at times.
[/quote]

I don't expect you to recognize truth. You are, after all, a conservative.

{"Oh my God, a Conservative! Hide the women and children, lock the doors! I don't expect you to recognize the truth, only YOUR truth, after all you're a Liberal.}

Now that we both have the snark out of the way, maybe we could talk about Afghanistan policy.

It is very hard to deny that we will leave Afghanistan without anything looking like a military victory. It's also hard to imagine that in the next few years we will be able to ensure an Afghan government that will survive for long.

{You do realize that that region of the world is a hornet's nest of terrorists groups or have you been watching the MSM only?}

How long are we willing to stay there? 10 more years? 20? 30? Are we willing to continue to send American soldiers to die for no discernible purpose or American strategic interest? Are we likely to be honest enough to tell our soldiers and their families that this is what we are asking of them?

{As long as it takes. How long have we been in SK? How long have we been in Germany and other parts of Europe? As for the sending of our children (military) they (like I stated before) know that they may be sent into harms way. Everyone of us that have been in the military KNOW this. Yet, we still signed on the dotted line and didn't want to depend on basement dwellers to protect us, God forbid.}

If I thought for a minute that our stated goal of "killing terrorists" would make America and Americans safer, I would be behind it 100%. But if we kill 1,000 terrorists, and in the process spawn 2,000 more to take their place, will we be safer? We've been killing terrorists in that region by the thousands for years. Has that prevented terrorism from reaching our shores, or the borders of our allies?

{And...do you really think that if we don't kill those 1,000 terrorists there won't be another 2,000 to take their place? You're living in La-La Land if you do believe this. Their intent is destruction of the Western Way of Life, be it in the USA or a European country. You're thinking that if you don't kill the rats in your house they won't send another army to gobble your chow in your pantry. Kill the Infidel is their motto, you do understand what that means, I hope. You're the Infidel and no coddling will change their minds it will just embolden them further because in their minds we're weak.}

I am old enough to recall the arguments that we were fighting in Vietnam to prevent the spread of communism. The premise was that if North Vietnam won, dominoes would begin to fall until we were fighting the Russians and/or Chinese on American soil. That didn't happen either. No American interests were harmed. So it was hard for me then to justify the sacrifice of thousands of young American lives, many of them my friends, neighbors and colleagues. And it's even harder to justify it for the questionable rationale behind the war we started in Afghanistan.
[/quote]

{So you want to compare Viet Nam to Islamist Terrorists? That's a bona fide stupid example. How many Viet Namese terrorist acts have they committed. Zero. I urge you to read "The Ten Thousand Day War. Viet Nam 1945-1975" by Michael MaClear if you really want to know why we were in Viet Nam. I admit it was a fiasco and some of us were in the military so thus we were expected to fight the war. The only thing Ho Chi Minh wanted was a united Viet Nam and that's all he wanted. Viet Nam, though, was not, and is not a very good example of what we have in Afghanistan. It's like comparing a mouse to a lion, completely different animals.}

{But, my question still stands. How many Liberals on this site have been in the military fighting for their families freedoms? Have you?}
08-22-2017 03:03 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #47
RE: What to do in Afghanistan?
(08-22-2017 02:49 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(08-22-2017 02:33 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(08-22-2017 01:32 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(08-22-2017 01:28 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(08-22-2017 11:34 AM)olliebaba Wrote:  Those kids aren't like you Kenny. The minute that they (we) sign(ed) up it's common knowledge that that's what it will be asked of us. That is, fight for our country and perhaps even die. Some parents know this and are proud and some want to coddle theirs. 4 out of 5 brothers in my family knew what we were getting into and signed up to serve. One didn't because he had flat feet that's what he said so I'll take him at his word but he did go to the recruiting station and that's more than many coddled babies nowadays do. I count my neighbors kids in that, too coddled. You must be a liberal, right?

Not to many liberals are in the military, it's probably fear that keeps them from joining.

Your post could not possibly have been more offensive or condescending.
It doesn't deserve a response.

The truth does that at times.

I don't expect you to recognize truth. You are, after all, a conservative.

Now that we both have the snark out of the way, maybe we could talk about Afghanistan policy.

It is very hard to deny that we will leave Afghanistan without anything looking like a military victory. It's also hard to imagine that in the next few years we will be able to ensure an Afghan government that will survive for long.

How long are we willing to stay there? 10 more years? 20? 30? Are we willing to continue to send American soldiers to die for no discernible purpose or American strategic interest? Are we likely to be honest enough to tell our soldiers and their families that this is what we are asking of them?

If I thought for a minute that our stated goal of "killing terrorists" would make America and Americans safer, I would be behind it 100%. But if we kill 1,000 terrorists, and in the process spawn 2,000 more to take their place, will we be safer? We've been killing terrorists in that region by the thousands for years. Has that prevented terrorism from reaching our shores, or the borders of our allies?

I am old enough to recall the arguments that we were fighting in Vietnam to prevent the spread of communism. The premise was that if North Vietnam won, dominoes would begin to fall until we were fighting the Russians and/or Chinese on American soil. That didn't happen either. No American interests were harmed. So it was hard for me then to justify the sacrifice of thousands of young American lives, many of them my friends, neighbors and colleagues. And it's even harder to justify it for the questionable rationale behind the war we started in Afghanistan.

Questionable rationale?????
3 numbers----911
Yours is one of the most mind-numbingly stupid comments ever on this board.
You can argue whether continuing is justified or worth the cost, but questioning the beginning rationale is just beyond reason.
It makes the TDSers with their Russian conspiracy look reasonable.

The decision to expand the war into Afghanistan had nothing to do with 9/11. We had a legitimate interest and justification for pursuing Osama bin Laden into that country. But the pursuit of the architect of 9/11 quickly became secondary. Now we have spent some 15 years in a futile attempt at nation building in a part of the world we don't understand, and all we have to show for it is an enemy we have made stronger.

9/11 was never a reason for starting the Afghan war. It was only an excuse.
08-22-2017 05:11 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: What to do in Afghanistan?
We never were in Afghanistan to win--nor in Iraq of Vietnam, among others. And if we're not going to be in to win, then we need to stay out. GTFO and Stay TFO.

We need to get out of the nation-building business and stay out of it. Trump's denial to the contrary, that's what we are doing there. Suppose we could win the hearts and minds of 90% of the people. That sounds like a wonderful goal, albeit IMO not doable. But if we did, then where are the other 10%? Down at the nearest al-Qaeda recruiting office. And that's the problem.
(This post was last modified: 08-22-2017 05:37 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
08-22-2017 05:33 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #49
RE: What to do in Afghanistan?
We didn't declare war on just Osama Bin Laden and al Qaeda, we declared war on terrorists and those that support them.

The Taliban, the ruling party in Afghanistan at the time, gave support to al Qaeda. Both the Taliba and al Qaeda are still active in Afghanistan.

The defeatist attitude I'm reading isn't shocking, especially once you realize it's mostly coming from the left. I agree had we kept doing what we were doing.....handcuffing our military with non-military jobs like building schools and roads while civilian idiots micromanaged the war from DC that we can't win. But the numerous articles I have read about the changes made in the fight against ISIS under Trump give me hope. Our civilian leaders are going to now do what they are supposed to do: give our military leaders a goal to accomplish and get the hell out of the way while they do it.

Our troops want to go kill terrorists.....the generation serving today has spent much of their life under the realty that terrorism can strike us even here. Russia isn't their enemy like it was for the generation before because Russia can't threaten us anymore. Terrorists can and do. They'd much rather be stacking up terrorist bodies in Kabul than digging through rubble pulling out American bodies on American soil. My son talks about how during every training exercise they do they to a man wish they were in Iraq or Syria killing ISIS instead of shooting blanks and laser beams at friendly troops. He talks about a renewed feeling of energy within the troops because of the changes that have been made in how their leaders are being allowed more freedom to conduct operations. No longer do they have to ask permission from unqualified civilians before they conduct a mission. As history has shown time and time again there isn't much of anything that can stand in the way of an enthusiastic American military.
08-22-2017 05:51 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #50
RE: What to do in Afghanistan?
(08-22-2017 05:11 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(08-22-2017 02:49 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(08-22-2017 02:33 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(08-22-2017 01:32 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(08-22-2017 01:28 PM)ken d Wrote:  
Your post could not possibly have been more offensive or condescending.
It doesn't deserve a response.

The truth does that at times.

I don't expect you to recognize truth. You are, after all, a conservative.

Now that we both have the snark out of the way, maybe we could talk about Afghanistan policy.

It is very hard to deny that we will leave Afghanistan without anything looking like a military victory. It's also hard to imagine that in the next few years we will be able to ensure an Afghan government that will survive for long.

How long are we willing to stay there? 10 more years? 20? 30? Are we willing to continue to send American soldiers to die for no discernible purpose or American strategic interest? Are we likely to be honest enough to tell our soldiers and their families that this is what we are asking of them?

If I thought for a minute that our stated goal of "killing terrorists" would make America and Americans safer, I would be behind it 100%. But if we kill 1,000 terrorists, and in the process spawn 2,000 more to take their place, will we be safer? We've been killing terrorists in that region by the thousands for years. Has that prevented terrorism from reaching our shores, or the borders of our allies?

I am old enough to recall the arguments that we were fighting in Vietnam to prevent the spread of communism. The premise was that if North Vietnam won, dominoes would begin to fall until we were fighting the Russians and/or Chinese on American soil. That didn't happen either. No American interests were harmed. So it was hard for me then to justify the sacrifice of thousands of young American lives, many of them my friends, neighbors and colleagues. And it's even harder to justify it for the questionable rationale behind the war we started in Afghanistan.

Questionable rationale?????
3 numbers----911
Yours is one of the most mind-numbingly stupid comments ever on this board.
You can argue whether continuing is justified or worth the cost, but questioning the beginning rationale is just beyond reason.
It makes the TDSers with their Russian conspiracy look reasonable.

The decision to expand the war into Afghanistan had nothing to do with 9/11. We had a legitimate interest and justification for pursuing Osama bin Laden into that country. But the pursuit of the architect of 9/11 quickly became secondary. Now we have spent some 15 years in a futile attempt at nation building in a part of the world we don't understand, and all we have to show for it is an enemy we have made stronger.

9/11 was never a reason for starting the Afghan war. It was only an excuse.

No. We are in Afghanistan so it doesn't return to being a haven for training and planning for strikes against the mainland US. Groups on the run in Afghan territory dont accomplish much in the USA. Its the old adage---you can fight them there or you can fight them here. I'd much rather use our armed and trained fighting forces to battle them in Afghanistan (on our terms) than wait for them to strike our unarmed homeland civilian population on their terms.
(This post was last modified: 08-22-2017 09:24 PM by Attackcoog.)
08-22-2017 07:15 PM
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nutbushtiger Offline
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Post: #51
RE: What to do in Afghanistan?
What to do in Afghanistan? I think a lot of people use TripAdvisor when making plans to travel abroad.
08-22-2017 07:16 PM
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Post: #52
RE: What to do in Afghanistan?
Well if you use tripadvisor, you may note the biggest challenge to getting tough with Pakistan.

Afghanistan is bordered by Iran, 3 former Soviet xxxstans, a tiny sliver with China and Pakistan. So we are dependent on Russian allies and Pakistan for getting supplies in.
08-23-2017 08:48 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #53
RE: What to do in Afghanistan?
(08-23-2017 08:48 AM)bullet Wrote:  Well if you use tripadvisor, you may note the biggest challenge to getting tough with Pakistan.

Afghanistan is bordered by Iran, 3 former Soviet xxxstans, a tiny sliver with China and Pakistan. So we are dependent on Russian allies and Pakistan for getting supplies in.

Lol. Wait--we need to work WITH the Russians? CNN isn't going to like that.
08-23-2017 09:26 AM
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Post: #54
RE: What to do in Afghanistan?
(08-23-2017 09:26 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(08-23-2017 08:48 AM)bullet Wrote:  Well if you use tripadvisor, you may note the biggest challenge to getting tough with Pakistan.

Afghanistan is bordered by Iran, 3 former Soviet xxxstans, a tiny sliver with China and Pakistan. So we are dependent on Russian allies and Pakistan for getting supplies in.

Lol. Wait--we need to work WITH the Russians? CNN isn't going to like that.

Well Obama did. And W.

CNN wouldn't like it if Trump cured cancer. They've got an article titled something like "Trump's 57 most outrageous quotes from his Arizona speech." Talk about TDS! It takes hard work to get triggered 57 times in a single speech.
08-23-2017 09:52 AM
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olliebaba Offline
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Post: #55
RE: What to do in Afghanistan?
(08-23-2017 09:52 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(08-23-2017 09:26 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(08-23-2017 08:48 AM)bullet Wrote:  Well if you use tripadvisor, you may note the biggest challenge to getting tough with Pakistan.

Afghanistan is bordered by Iran, 3 former Soviet xxxstans, a tiny sliver with China and Pakistan. So we are dependent on Russian allies and Pakistan for getting supplies in.

Lol. Wait--we need to work WITH the Russians? CNN isn't going to like that.

Well Obama did. And W.

CNN wouldn't like it if Trump cured cancer. They've got an article titled something like "Trump's 57 most outrageous quotes from his Arizona speech." Talk about TDS! It takes hard work to get triggered 57 times in a single speech.


That just proves that what Trump said was right on. That is, to rile them up so much that they'll only have that against him. Keep pricking them with that plastic fork Donny. Be that mosquito in their bedroom that keeps them up.
08-23-2017 10:46 AM
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Post: #56
RE: What to do in Afghanistan?
http://www.realcleardefense.com/articles...12147.html

"...The president touched four bases in this speech, and in doing so, hit a home run.
First, he acknowledged the sacrifice of thousands of service men and women in the conflict, along with many Americans’ frustrations that the war has continued for so long, seemingly without a strategic vision or an articulated end goal.

Second, he made the effective case that the “consequences of a rapid exit are both predictable and unacceptable,” and that the United States must continue to support the vital security mission in Afghanistan. Importantly, he stressed that strategic decisions will be made based on conditions on the ground, not via politically motivated judgments determined by election cycles.

Third, he reframed the U.S. strategy in Afghanistan as a regional one, highlighting how we must revamp our approach to South Asia as a whole. This will include pressuring Pakistan on its, at best, lukewarm approach to combatting terrorism, and reaffirming and strengthening alliances with key partners like India.

Fourth, and finally, he articulated a vision for victory, not just how to avoid outright defeat. He stressed the relaxation of restrictive rules of engagement and connected a secure Afghanistan with America’s own national security...."
08-25-2017 09:30 AM
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Hood-rich Offline
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Post: #57
RE: What to do in Afghanistan?
(08-25-2017 09:30 AM)bullet Wrote:  http://www.realcleardefense.com/articles...12147.html

"...The president touched four bases in this speech, and in doing so, hit a home run.
First, he acknowledged the sacrifice of thousands of service men and women in the conflict, along with many Americans’ frustrations that the war has continued for so long, seemingly without a strategic vision or an articulated end goal.

Second, he made the effective case that the “consequences of a rapid exit are both predictable and unacceptable,” and that the United States must continue to support the vital security mission in Afghanistan. Importantly, he stressed that strategic decisions will be made based on conditions on the ground, not via politically motivated judgments determined by election cycles.

Third, he reframed the U.S. strategy in Afghanistan as a regional one, highlighting how we must revamp our approach to South Asia as a whole. This will include pressuring Pakistan on its, at best, lukewarm approach to combatting terrorism, and reaffirming and strengthening alliances with key partners like India.

Fourth, and finally, he articulated a vision for victory, not just how to avoid outright defeat. He stressed the relaxation of restrictive rules of engagement and connected a secure Afghanistan with America’s own national security...."

"Rapid exit"? We've been there for 16 ******* years.
08-25-2017 09:35 AM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Balance of Power Contest
Post: #58
RE: What to do in Afghanistan?
(08-25-2017 09:30 AM)bullet Wrote:  http://www.realcleardefense.com/articles...12147.html

"...The president touched four bases in this speech, and in doing so, hit a home run.
First, he acknowledged the sacrifice of thousands of service men and women in the conflict, along with many Americans’ frustrations that the war has continued for so long, seemingly without a strategic vision or an articulated end goal.

Second, he made the effective case that the “consequences of a rapid exit are both predictable and unacceptable,” and that the United States must continue to support the vital security mission in Afghanistan. Importantly, he stressed that strategic decisions will be made based on conditions on the ground, not via politically motivated judgments determined by election cycles.

Third, he reframed the U.S. strategy in Afghanistan as a regional one, highlighting how we must revamp our approach to South Asia as a whole. This will include pressuring Pakistan on its, at best, lukewarm approach to combatting terrorism, and reaffirming and strengthening alliances with key partners like India.

Fourth, and finally, he articulated a vision for victory, not just how to avoid outright defeat. He stressed the relaxation of restrictive rules of engagement and connected a secure Afghanistan with America’s own national security...."

I thought it was a speech steeped in advice from real military experts in the field. Not some gushy ass policy made by politicians. Ive been in the camp of leaving NOW...but..if we are going to stay? This seems like a valid strategy.
08-25-2017 11:36 AM
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No Bull Offline
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Post: #59
RE: What to do in Afghanistan?
(08-16-2017 08:40 AM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.thecipherbrief.com/column/ex...stan-years

Article questions a "surge" in Afghanistan. Doesn't answer the question, but does raise questions about some of the solutions.

Boys and girls...can you say Daisy Cutter?

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08-25-2017 04:01 PM
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