McCain's approach
https://medium.com/@SenatorJohnMcCain/a-...f7b6c71e0e
Mostly gobbledy-gook. But one really good provision:
"Imposing graduated diplomatic, military, and economic costs on Pakistan as long as it continues to provide support and sanctuary to terrorist and insurgent groups, including the Taliban and the Haqqani Network, while simultaneously outlining the potential benefits of a long-term U.S.-Pakistan strategic partnership that could result from Pakistan’s cessation of support for all terrorist and insurgent groups and constructive role in bringing about a peaceful resolution of the conflict in Afghanistan; and"
Walk away and don't look back.
Prolly should have a candle light vigil
(08-16-2017 08:40 AM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.thecipherbrief.com/column/ex...stan-years
Article questions a "surge" in Afghanistan. Doesn't answer the question, but does raise questions about some of the solutions.
Solutions.
Hunh.
Makes one wonder if such a thing even exists over there.
This is pretty clearly a 4th world territory, open to the highest bidder willing to deal with the local tribal leader. This is NOT a Nation/State.
More akin to an unsettled territory and survival instincts remain. Schools, Churches, Mosques, Hospitals even navigable roads don't matter as much as the next meal or bucket of water. Thats when you sell to the highest bidder, supposed gov'ment be damned. People have to eat first.
Time to just get out, keep a close eye on "camps" and maybe send some of them AID to ease their troubles. 16 years, longer than my kids lifetime thus far is enough.
In it to win it, or just stop. We bailed on NK and Vietnam, shoulda taken out Sadamn in the first place during Kuwait.
A lot of this could have been either stopped or avoided.
(08-16-2017 09:50 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: [ -> ]Walk away and don't look back.
Turn over to the Taliban and Al Queda again? Remember the last time we walked away from Afghanistan?
(08-17-2017 07:56 AM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2017 09:50 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: [ -> ]Walk away and don't look back.
Turn over to the Taliban and Al Queda again? Remember the last time we walked away from Afghanistan?
It's the way we walked away that got us into this mess. We were not an occupying force then. We used them as a tool to bring down the USSR with promises of aid and improvements to their infrastructure. They were told we would build roads, hospitals, schools, modernize utilities etc etc. At that time there was no Taliban to speak of. And then we simply walked away, leaving them to their own inadequate devices.
It was that abandonment that gave rise to the Taliban and later to Al-Qaeda. Walking away this time removes an occupying force from their midst. There's a difference. Over-simplified of course but that's the gist of the current situation.
We've been there 15 years. WTF have we accomplished?
Killing bin Laden? Took us 8 years to do what should have been Step 1.
Anything else?
Go in full-bore or don't go in. And if you're not willing to go full-bore, then GTFO. And stay TFO.
(08-17-2017 08:39 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ]We've been there 15 years. WTF have we accomplished?
Killing bin Laden? Took us 8 years to do what should have been Step 1.
Anything else?
Go in full-bore or don't go in. And if you're not willing to go full-bore, then GTFO. And stay TFO.
We've bred an entire new generation of West hating juvenile future terrorists?
(08-17-2017 07:56 AM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2017 09:50 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: [ -> ]Walk away and don't look back.
Turn over to the Taliban and Al Queda again? Remember the last time we walked away from Afghanistan?
I'm not for leaving thousands of young Americans in harms way in order to satisfy a very narrow fear.
(08-17-2017 09:19 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: [ -> ] (08-17-2017 07:56 AM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2017 09:50 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: [ -> ]Walk away and don't look back.
Turn over to the Taliban and Al Queda again? Remember the last time we walked away from Afghanistan?
I'm not for leaving thousands of young Americans in harms way in order to satisfy a very narrow fear.
Particularly when the best way to minimize that fear is probably to quit meddling in their business.
The problem is all the American sympathizers there will be murdered in mass.
My proposal is this. We announce our intention to leave.
Each city we plan to leave we build a hospital and or school. Fix the roads. Identify the friendlies and record who they are.
Move back to the next city and repeat.
Eventually we leave with a set of schools, hospitals, and roads as our legacy.
Then, each time a person on the friendly list is killed, we bomb one of the things we built and everyone in it. No apologies. No remorse. No mercy.
(08-17-2017 10:48 PM)Claw Wrote: [ -> ]The problem is all the American sympathizers there will be murdered in mass.
My proposal is this. We announce our intention to leave.
Each city we plan to leave we build a hospital and or school. Fix the roads. Identify the friendlies and record who they are.
Move back to the next city and repeat.
Eventually we leave with a set of schools, hospitals, and roads as our legacy.
Then, each time a person on the friendly list is killed, we bomb one of the things we built and everyone in it. No apologies. No remorse. No mercy.
Well, we've already built a lot of those schools and hospitals and roads. To do it on a truly massive scale is probably more expensive that the war has been, at least in dollars, probably not lives and limbs.
I think we have to leave whoever are in charge with the idea that if they screw up, we'll be back to kill them. The problem is that's pretty hard when we've spent 15 years there under the rules of engagement that we've had. I don't think we are willing to do what we have to there.
(08-17-2017 10:57 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-17-2017 10:48 PM)Claw Wrote: [ -> ]The problem is all the American sympathizers there will be murdered in mass.
My proposal is this. We announce our intention to leave.
Each city we plan to leave we build a hospital and or school. Fix the roads. Identify the friendlies and record who they are.
Move back to the next city and repeat.
Eventually we leave with a set of schools, hospitals, and roads as our legacy.
Then, each time a person on the friendly list is killed, we bomb one of the things we built and everyone in it. No apologies. No remorse. No mercy.
Well, we've already built a lot of those schools and hospitals and roads. To do it on a truly massive scale is probably more expensive that the war has been, at least in dollars, probably not lives and limbs.
I think we have to leave whoever are in charge with the idea that if they screw up, we'll be back to kill them. The problem is that's pretty hard when we've spent 15 years there under the rules of engagement that we've had. I don't think we are willing to do what we have to there.
So all they have to do is remove the women's restrooms from the schools and they are good to go then.
When you are in a hole, stop digging. Get the hell out and leave those people to their own misery. We have spent far too much blood and treasure there. Plus Obama said it was the right war and he was wrong about most things.
(08-16-2017 09:50 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: [ -> ]Walk away and don't look back.
We did that and that is how the Taliban came to be able to pull off the things they did.
We can't win there but we need to keep our eye on it.
(08-16-2017 09:50 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: [ -> ]Walk away and don't look back.
Yep.
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