(07-10-2017 09:19 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote: They rewarded the XDSUs with adding South Dakota and now with North Dakota.
Absolutely. And especially in the recent case of taking UND to go to 11, which probably means two Dakota away trips for some subset of non-Dakota MVFC schools every year. They've clearly seen the value in the Dakota flagships' financial commitment to athletics and particularly football.
(07-10-2017 09:31 PM)Hammersmith Wrote: A slight expansion/clarification about UNC: ...
Member since 2014 ...... 15 posts. Damned. Shame.
(07-10-2017 09:31 PM)Hammersmith Wrote: UNC had always been a cultural and geographic outlier in the NCC. The Big Sky was much more attractive to them, but an invite was not imminent.
Interesting to look at the history. UNC was part of the RMAC conference for many decades ... and that conference had a much higher profile of membership in its earlier years, up to the late 1930's. Montana St was still a member through the late 1950's.
The Big Sky was founded with ID, ID St, MT, MT St, Weber, and Gonzaga (non-football), with Boise and NAU joining a few years later (and Nevada few years after that). UNC would've been ripe for the picking, from day one, if the Big Sky had wanted to include them. Wonder why they weren't included from the start? (honest question)
UNC finally left the RMAC after massive changes in membership in the early 1970's, went independent for a few years, and then joined the NCC in the late 1970's. Arguable, UNC has had its best athletic success in the NCC, winning two national DII football titles in the 1990's. It hasn't really done jack in the Big Sky, since moving up, I don't believe.
(07-11-2017 08:43 AM)johnbragg Wrote: Nobody blocked you. For most of that time, independents could transitioin to Division I. "It wasn't by choice that we were consigned to DII." Yeah, you just weren't willing to do anything to get into D-I. That's a you problem.
As others have mentioned, UND was very, very content with being a national power in DI (men's ice) hockey, while being in the DII NCC for everything else. Annual football game against NDSU, other sports played NDSU, and all bus trips to other upper midwest schools.
Then particularly in the 90's and early 2000's, UND became a national power in DII football, winning title in 2001 and runner up in 2003. They had overtaken NDSU in football, by that time. Attendance at the Fargodome for games outside the UND game wasn't great. That was the absolute peak, for UND fans. And many viewed NDSU wanting to move to DI as "running away".
Only when NDSU's move to DI revitalized the football program, bringing attendance soaring, finding success in the Great West conference, even being ranked #1 in DI-AA for most of 2007 (though ineligible for playoffs), after a fantastic 2006 season where the new Fargodome attendance record was set for the conference winning game over SDSU, did UND finally realize "wow ... this is for real ...", and decide to start taking a look at moving themselves.
(07-11-2017 08:43 AM)johnbragg Wrote: This actually makes a ton of sense. There is definitely an argument based on academic prestige and profile to group the northern-border flagships-and-landgrants together, and Denver (USNWR #86) and UMKC (#210) is a valuable addition on that score. (UNO lags, but people have heard of Omaha).
Like I said to NoDak, this probably would've happened decades ago if NDSU and UND were on the other side of North Dakota (which is the Mountain timezone). The Great Plains is a massive divide of the country. Fargo and Grand Forks are practically in Minnesota, which is where many of their students and athletes come from (in addition to the Dakotas and Wisconsin, among other places).
If the Dakota and Montana flagships could've gotten together with Wyoming, Colorado St, Idaho, Boise, from much earlier on, perhaps around the 1960's or 1970's ... who knows. That's what would've needed to happen ... but it never worked out that way, partly due to that massive divide the splits the country in the middle. Another interesting thing would've been if N Dak, S Dak, and Montana would've each stuck with a single public flagship for the state, putting the agriculture college at the U of ____ instead of making a separate school ... that would've been interesting to see where those schools would've ended up. Again, maybe with Wyoming. But alas, did not happen.