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Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
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SDHornet Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
(06-25-2017 11:00 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(06-24-2017 02:07 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  How so? Roughly half of NDSU's roster comes from out of state.

And??? The Dakotas, and ever increasingly N Iowa, have proven to be more than capable of each taking between 10-20 high FCS level football athletes from high schools in Minnesota and Wisconsin, every year.

And those teams make the playoffs every year, using those players. That is not any thing even close to "limited recruits", in any way, shape, or form. It was a silly comment, and you were dead wrong.

(06-24-2017 02:07 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  The idea of having the Montana's joining the Dakota cabal and competing for the limited recruits in the area would be a poor move for them...and as Stu pointed out would not align with their current recruiting strategy/pipelines.

Now that you're moving the goalposts -- I never said anything about Montana schools recruiting Minn and Wisc. Even if they were in a league with Dakota schools ... they wouldn't do that. They recruit the West, which is just fine.

The point is the Montanas don't want to be scrounging around the upper Midwest for FB recruits when it can cover recruiting within the state and hit up a few large metro areas on the west coast (that they visit during conference play). No brainer decision by Montanas to stay put.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2017 03:14 PM by SDHornet.)
07-01-2017 03:10 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
(07-01-2017 03:10 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  ... it can cover recruiting within the state and hit up a few large metro areas on the west coast ... No brainer decision by Montanas to stay put.

These two things have nothing to do with each other.

If Montana's moved to a conference with the Dakotas and Idaho ...... the Dakotas would continue to recruit the Dakotas, Minn, and Wisc, and the Montana's and Idaho would continue to recruit those two states plus recruits from the West.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2017 04:37 PM by MplsBison.)
07-01-2017 04:36 PM
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Jjoey52 Offline
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Post: #63
Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
Montana is NOT moving east.


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07-01-2017 04:50 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
Agreed.

And that actually has nothing to do with the thread topic. The answer to the thread topic is no one, for now. Which I believe was given many posts ago.
07-01-2017 05:12 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
The answer is nobody replaces UND

Sac State will continue to eye a chance to join the Big West --if the Big Sky will let them keep football in the league-- which would bring the Big Sky back down to 10.

Football may get a 14th in the next five years if Asuza Pacific decides to join the WAC. That could trigger two 7 team divisions in football

Eventually the Big Sky may move to a 20 game Basketball schedule, in which case 11 works fine.
07-01-2017 06:21 PM
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SDHornet Offline
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RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
(07-01-2017 06:21 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The answer is nobody replaces UND

Sac State will continue to eye a chance to join the Big West --if the Big Sky will let them keep football in the league-- which would bring the Big Sky back down to 10.

Football may get a 14th in the next five years if Asuza Pacific decides to join the WAC. That could trigger two 7 team divisions in football

Eventually the Big Sky may move to a 20 game Basketball schedule, in which case 11 works fine.

One has to wonder that if the BW wants UCSD bad enough, is Sac State the CSU school paired up with their addition? Clearly the BW doesn't want Bako otherwise that move would have happened this last vote.

I think APU would be better of going "non-scholarship" and parking its FB in the Pioneer. But who knows at this point.
07-04-2017 02:04 AM
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SDHornet Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
(07-01-2017 04:36 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(07-01-2017 03:10 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  ... it can cover recruiting within the state and hit up a few large metro areas on the west coast ... No brainer decision by Montanas to stay put.

These two things have nothing to do with each other.

If Montana's moved to a conference with the Dakotas and Idaho ...... the Dakotas would continue to recruit the Dakotas, Minn, and Wisc, and the Montana's and Idaho would continue to recruit those two states plus recruits from the West.

So their recruiting budgets would significantly increase to cover the areas they will be playing in plus the areas they use to play in? Sure.
07-04-2017 02:06 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
(07-04-2017 02:04 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  Clearly the BW doesn't want Bako otherwise that move would have happened this last vote.

That assumes that option was on the table, at that vote. Don't think it was ... think vote was up or down on UCSD alone.


(07-04-2017 02:06 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  So their recruiting budgets would significantly increase to cover the areas they will be playing in plus the areas they use to play in?

"those two states" was obviously referring to Montana and Idaho. That means the same areas they recruit now.
07-04-2017 09:38 AM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
Holy mackerel -- you guys are still having this argument?

For Idaho -- we've been in 8 zillion conferences over the past 2 decades, with and without California schools. Wherever we've been, we've recruited heavily in California, Washington and Idaho. We've been a destination for West Coast kids who didn't like their potential circumstances on PAC12 or MWC teams. It hasn't changed much, whether Big West, WAC, Sun Belt, Independent, or ?????.

Also, when Akey was coach he brought in a lot of Texas guys. Petrino recruits a lot in Florida. Coaches do what coaches do, and I highly doubt it has much to do with anyone's conference alignment decisions.
07-04-2017 10:50 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
(07-04-2017 10:50 AM)LatahCounty Wrote:  Wherever we've been, we've recruited heavily in California, Washington and Idaho.

Which is correct.

Wherever Montana would go, it would recruit Montana and the West.
07-05-2017 07:19 PM
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SDHornet Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
(07-04-2017 09:38 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(07-04-2017 02:04 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  Clearly the BW doesn't want Bako otherwise that move would have happened this last vote.

That assumes that option was on the table, at that vote. Don't think it was ... think vote was up or down on UCSD alone.

A phone call from the BW commish to the Bako Pres puts Bako on the table...that phone call (as far as we know) wasn't made. If there was any interest in Bako, they would have postponed the UCSD vote to make it happen (or worked to get Bako in the mix prior to the vote), and not straight up rejected UCSD until all the ducks were in a row.
07-08-2017 05:49 PM
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SDHornet Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
(07-05-2017 07:19 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(07-04-2017 10:50 AM)LatahCounty Wrote:  Wherever we've been, we've recruited heavily in California, Washington and Idaho.

Which is correct.

Wherever Montana would go, it would recruit Montana and the West.

*at added expense.
07-08-2017 05:50 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
(07-08-2017 05:49 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  If there was any interest in Bako, they would have postponed the UCSD vote to make it happen (or worked to get Bako in the mix prior to the vote), and not straight up rejected UCSD until all the ducks were in a row.

A reasonable guess, for sure ... but still just a guess. We don't know anything for sure. The BW presidents may have wanted to focus on UCSD, at that time.


(07-08-2017 05:50 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  *at added expense.

Very slight increase to the "recruiting budget", maybe, but overall a decrease in costs.
07-09-2017 08:56 AM
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SDHornet Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
(07-09-2017 08:56 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 05:49 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  If there was any interest in Bako, they would have postponed the UCSD vote to make it happen (or worked to get Bako in the mix prior to the vote), and not straight up rejected UCSD until all the ducks were in a row.

A reasonable guess, for sure ... but still just a guess. We don't know anything for sure. The BW presidents may have wanted to focus on UCSD, at that time.

Not much of a guess. You don't put UCSD publicly through the ringer if there was even the slightest interest in Bako that would result in bringing them both on board...especially knowing the timeline UCSD is on as mandated by the student referendum.
07-09-2017 05:08 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
You have no idea if the CSU schools were interested in Bakersfield, and what other factors might have prevented the BW CSU presidents from expressing their actual interest in Bakersfield during the meeting regarding UCSD's vote.

You're free to guess, all you like, and your guesses could be right. But none of us knows anything.
07-10-2017 09:19 AM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
(06-23-2017 07:25 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(06-23-2017 05:22 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  
(06-23-2017 01:11 AM)NoDak Wrote:  
(06-23-2017 12:30 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  
(06-22-2017 07:39 PM)NoDak Wrote:  The Governor of ND just was just profiled by Forbes as the politician who best understands the entrepreneurial worls. He started an accounting software firm in Fargo and sold it for billions to Microsoft. He resigned from several high tech boards to begin his political career. He is attempting to make state government and education must more accessible and communicative by using apps and other software. The future government blueprint may well be North Dakota, which is become very business and consumer responsive. The President of UND is a former congressman and business leader who is fully on board and dreams big. Cuts were necessary to show that government and education can become leaner and more efficient and even friendlier and less bureaucratic.

And a Dakota cabal FBS conference centered around a region with zero media markets, limited recruits, and limited fans while significantly increasing the athletic expenses fits that ideal?

Ok. You sold me.

By going FBS, the Dakotas and Montana show their no longer backwater regions that aren't with the times, like the Sacramento region, which cow tows miserably to the Bay Area. The Dakotas are growing for the first time in a century, their incomes have expanded more than other states this century, and they want more entertainment and other amenities that most of the US has.

Many of the majority Minnesotans at the NoDak schools stay in the state because it still has so many good paying jobs. Going FBS will only improve the schools stature.

Sorry, but this is hilarious, the Dakota schools just got out of D2 a few years ago. They are doing well in FCS, but over time in FBS, they would get destroyed.
The NoDaks had entertained DI for 40 years as DII teams. The Big Sky blocked us, other than the Montanas and UNI left us for greener pastures of DI, and none of the other Midcontinent teams wanted us either. It wasn't by choice that we were consigned to DII.

That is incorrect

Happen till about 10 years ago you did not need a conference invite go to Division I

Look at the coders could've chosen to go division one at any time in their existence no school was blocking them


To the coaches had a choice would northern Colorado with division one without a conference invite they could have joined them probably got in Omaha at the same time and maybe one of the Minnesota or South Dakota private schools to go in the north-central could've gone up as a unit and you would've had an automatic bid within two years

Decision not to go to the vision one was purely North Dakota's decision You are lying when you say otherwise
07-10-2017 10:28 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
There was talk amongst the NCC presidents about moving up as a unit. I can not recall to a certainty that these talks happened before or after N Colorado made its move ... but would think before. It may have even been N Colo that tried to get the ball rolling. After all, they won DII football national titles in the mid 90's.

But most of the schools were not interested or perhaps just couldn't make the numbers work. NDSU and SDSU were the first to "get serious" after N Colorado left, then followed by UND and USD.

That led the Minnesota schools and Augie to get swallowed by the NSIC, where they remain, while I believe Omaha went to the MIAA for a brief time before deciding to drop football and go DI itself.
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2017 10:42 AM by MplsBison.)
07-10-2017 10:40 AM
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NoDak Offline
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RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
(07-10-2017 10:28 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(06-23-2017 07:25 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(06-23-2017 05:22 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  
(06-23-2017 01:11 AM)NoDak Wrote:  
(06-23-2017 12:30 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  And a Dakota cabal FBS conference centered around a region with zero media markets, limited recruits, and limited fans while significantly increasing the athletic expenses fits that ideal?

Ok. You sold me.

By going FBS, the Dakotas and Montana show their no longer backwater regions that aren't with the times, like the Sacramento region, which cow tows miserably to the Bay Area. The Dakotas are growing for the first time in a century, their incomes have expanded more than other states this century, and they want more entertainment and other amenities that most of the US has.

Many of the majority Minnesotans at the NoDak schools stay in the state because it still has so many good paying jobs. Going FBS will only improve the schools stature.

Sorry, but this is hilarious, the Dakota schools just got out of D2 a few years ago. They are doing well in FCS, but over time in FBS, they would get destroyed.
The NoDaks had entertained DI for 40 years as DII teams. The Big Sky blocked us, other than the Montanas and UNI left us for greener pastures of DI, and none of the other Midcontinent teams wanted us either. It wasn't by choice that we were consigned to DII.

That is incorrect

Happen till about 10 years ago you did not need a conference invite go to Division I

Look at the coders could've chosen to go division one at any time in their existence no school was blocking them


To the coaches had a choice would northern Colorado with division one without a conference invite they could have joined them probably got in Omaha at the same time and maybe one of the Minnesota or South Dakota private schools to go in the north-central could've gone up as a unit and you would've had an automatic bid within two years

Decision not to go to the vision one was purely North Dakota's decision You are lying when you say otherwise

You have no clue what you are talking about and you compensate for it by accusing me of lying.

ND is very conservative economically and SD even more. Moving to DI would have been very expensive without a conference. The Mid-Con at that time wasn't the least bit interested.

Look up archives in ND newspapers as it all there. Specifically in the 70's when the college division split into DII and DIII and when the Big Sky lost Nevada, Boise, and Idaho. The Big Sky wrongly chose weak west coast schools instead of stronger Northern Great Plains ones because they were so entranced by markets, and not competition and academics.
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2017 12:10 PM by NoDak.)
07-10-2017 10:50 AM
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NoDak Offline
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RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
(07-10-2017 10:40 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  There was talk amongst the NCC presidents about moving up as a unit. I can not recall to a certainty that these talks happened before or after N Colorado made its move ... but would think before. It may have even been N Colo that tried to get the ball rolling. After all, they won DII football national titles in the mid 90's.

But most of the schools were not interested or perhaps just couldn't make the numbers work. NDSU and SDSU were the first to "get serious" after N Colorado left, then followed by UND and USD.

That led the Minnesota schools and Augie to get swallowed by the NSIC, where they remain, while I believe Omaha went to the MIAA for a brief time before deciding to drop football and go DI itself.

The move-up the whole NCC was blocked by the Minnesota schools, who wouldn't do it. Don't think Omaha and Augie at the time we're in favor of it either. Rule changes around 2000 didn't allow a whole conference to move up, like the Big South, Mid-Con and Transamerica conferences did earlier. Recognize that some of those weren't DII conferences, but just an amalgation of DII's that wanted a higher profile. The Dakota schools couldn't get enough numbers to go DI as a conference. DI was weary of that happening again, so they changed the rules by not allowing new transitioning conferences to form.
07-10-2017 12:27 PM
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jacksfan29 Offline
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RE: Who replaces North Dakota in BIG SKY in 2019?
(07-10-2017 10:50 AM)NoDak Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 10:28 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(06-23-2017 07:25 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(06-23-2017 05:22 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  
(06-23-2017 01:11 AM)NoDak Wrote:  By going FBS, the Dakotas and Montana show their no longer backwater regions that aren't with the times, like the Sacramento region, which cow tows miserably to the Bay Area. The Dakotas are growing for the first time in a century, their incomes have expanded more than other states this century, and they want more entertainment and other amenities that most of the US has.

Many of the majority Minnesotans at the NoDak schools stay in the state because it still has so many good paying jobs. Going FBS will only improve the schools stature.

Sorry, but this is hilarious, the Dakota schools just got out of D2 a few years ago. They are doing well in FCS, but over time in FBS, they would get destroyed.
The NoDaks had entertained DI for 40 years as DII teams. The Big Sky blocked us, other than the Montanas and UNI left us for greener pastures of DI, and none of the other Midcontinent teams wanted us either. It wasn't by choice that we were consigned to DII.

That is incorrect

Happen till about 10 years ago you did not need a conference invite go to Division I

Look at the coders could've chosen to go division one at any time in their existence no school was blocking them


To the coaches had a choice would northern Colorado with division one without a conference invite they could have joined them probably got in Omaha at the same time and maybe one of the Minnesota or South Dakota private schools to go in the north-central could've gone up as a unit and you would've had an automatic bid within two years

Decision not to go to the vision one was purely North Dakota's decision You are lying when you say otherwise

You have no clue what you are talking about and you compensate for it by accusing me of lying.

ND is very conservative economically and SD even more. Moving to DI would have been very expensive without a conference. The Mid-Con at that time wasn't the least bit interested.

Look up archives in ND newspapers as it all there. Specifically in the 70's when the college division split into DII and DIII and when the Big Sky lost Nevada, Boise, and Idaho. The Big Sky wrongly chose weak west coast schools instead of stronger Northern Great Plains ones because they were so entranced by markets, and not competition and academics.

(07-10-2017 12:27 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 10:40 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  There was talk amongst the NCC presidents about moving up as a unit. I can not recall to a certainty that these talks happened before or after N Colorado made its move ... but would think before. It may have even been N Colo that tried to get the ball rolling. After all, they won DII football national titles in the mid 90's.

But most of the schools were not interested or perhaps just couldn't make the numbers work. NDSU and SDSU were the first to "get serious" after N Colorado left, then followed by UND and USD.

That led the Minnesota schools and Augie to get swallowed by the NSIC, where they remain, while I believe Omaha went to the MIAA for a brief time before deciding to drop football and go DI itself.

The move-up the whole NCC was blocked by the Minnesota schools, who wouldn't do it. Don't think Omaha and Augie at the time we're in favor of it either. Rule changes around 2000 didn't allow a whole conference to move up, like the Big South, Mid-Con and Transamerica conferences did earlier. Recognize that some of those weren't DII conferences, but just an amalgation of DII's that wanted a higher profile. The Dakota schools couldn't get enough numbers to go DI as a conference. DI was weary of that happening again, so they changed the rules by not allowing new transitioning conferences to form.

Where do you get this stuff. The entire history is well known. At the league meeting in Northern MN, following the departure of UND, the President's of SDSU and NDSU pushed for the entire league to move up. USD were in favor of it while the rest of the league, led by UND fought the effort.

What ended up happening instead is that SDSU and NDSU joined together to move up alone. USD only wanted to go if the entire NCC moved up. UND, very publicly ridiculed the move by the XDSU's. Year's later, once UND realized that NDSU were going to be successful and that they were being left behind, they chose to move up with USD.

As for the Western schools and UNI blocking UND from moving up. That also isn't true. All four Dakota schools were pretty small thinkers back in the 70s and 80s. All four were happy in D2 during that time period. There was no talk of moving up, by any of the four, at any time until UNC moved up and D2 became watered down.
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2017 01:23 PM by jacksfan29.)
07-10-2017 01:23 PM
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