(01-06-2017 12:56 PM)cb4029 Wrote:  I'M pretty sure they will start a war with us before they pay a dime. I feel a giant FU will be coming from Mexico soon.

Mejico?!?

Start a war with the United States?

That'd last about the time it takes for a cup of coffee.

And he's been pretty clear about what "paying" for the wall would look like. No, they probably aren't going to be scratching us a check, it is supposed to look like a surcharge on monies being sent back "home", or reduction in Aid handed out by Congress or whatever else. I think there is some provision to avoid any of that if they do pony up some cash up front, not sure I see that happening.

(01-06-2017 03:33 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 03:21 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I still want to know what Mexico is going to use to go to war with us.

Surface to air Sombrero's.

Huh.

And I always though Oddjob was Asian.

(01-06-2017 03:38 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 12:56 PM)cb4029 Wrote:  I'M pretty sure they will start a war with us before they pay a dime. I feel a giant FU will be coming from Mexico soon.

Mejico?!?

Start a war with the United States?

That'd last about the time it takes for a cup of coffee.

Yeah, cb has made some stupid posts of late but this one is beyond stupid.

(01-06-2017 03:33 PM)JOwl Wrote:  That's a load of garbage Hammy. What does "one-time payment" mean to you?

You didn't realize he had actually written that. That much is clear.

Wow... really?

I actually had... though It's on his actual site and not on 'the wayback machine'. When i saw that you had resorted to that, I amended my comment since I hadn't read the entire page you linked/compared it to his and can't/hadn't verified its authenticity or consistency in its entirety.


The comment is, It's an easy decision for Mexico: make a one-time payment of $5-10 billion to ensure that $24 billion continues to flow into their country year
after year.

1) Are we going to bill them before it is built? You'd think we could narrow it down a little better than $5-10byn if that is the case.
2) If we bill them afterwards, are we going to wait years to pay our contractors?

Of course not. It seems obvious to anyone without an agenda that this 'one time payment' means 'pay once for the wall'... and not the 'send one check' that you seem to want to imply/believe.

Trump seems perfectly willing to accept keeping $24byn/yr forever in this country in lieu of that 'one time payment' and only a complete moron would say that doing so (if mexico were that stupid) would make Trump out to be a liar, since they didn't make a one time payment, but instead they gave up hundreds of thousands of small transactions. That is precisely the threat he's making.


Seriously... If Mexico said 'go ahead and keep that money', and Trump said 'okay', would you consider this a broken campaign promise since it wouldn't be one payment and wouldn't come from the Mexican government, even though it was a LARGE multiple of the cost of the wall?

If instead of writing a check, Mexico 'negotiated' a 10yr, 10% tarriff on those monies meaning rather than getting $5-10byn one time, that we got $2.4byn/yr for 10 years... I mean again, Mexico would be foolish to do this, but they certainly COULD.... would you consider this a broken campaign promise since it wouldn't be one payment and wouldn't come from the Mexican government even though it was again a multiple of the cost of the wall?

If Mexico instead negotiated (again, I have no idea what they'd use for leverage, but humoring your side's fantasies) a $5-10byn reduction in the aid currently being sent to Mexico (already on the budgets) but spread out over say 5-10 years (perhaps even paid as the contractors were paid), would you consider this a broken campaign promise since it wouldn't be one payment and wouldn't come from the Mexican government even though it was again a multiple of the cost of the wall?

In each of those scenario's, Mexico would have unarguably 'paid' for the wall. In each of those scenarios, Mexico would be given a choice between two options and most likely chosen the less expensive for them option, which is to some way in some manner 'pay for the wall'.

Of course those aren't the only options. The options are technically unlimited. Maybe they offer us Baja.

Any claims that any of these solutions don't meet the campaign promise are purely pedantic.

(01-06-2017 03:33 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 03:21 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I still want to know what Mexico is going to use to go to war with us.

Surface to air Sombrero's.

Burrito launchers

(01-06-2017 01:00 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  First payment was those Carrier jobs that didn't leave. Second is these Ford Jobs.

Only a complete idiot expected us to send them a bill that they would write a check for.

Why you want to insult all his voters.

(01-06-2017 03:33 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 03:21 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I still want to know what Mexico is going to use to go to war with us.

Surface to air Sombrero's.

Chili Rellenos attack helicopters.
Guacamole grenades.
Margarita pistols.

(01-06-2017 04:44 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 03:33 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 03:21 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I still want to know what Mexico is going to use to go to war with us.

Surface to air Sombrero's.

Chili Rellenos attack helicopters.
Guacamole grenades.
Margarita pistols.

I've actually been top a few parties where those were being used.

Good times...

(01-06-2017 04:47 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 04:44 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 03:33 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 03:21 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I still want to know what Mexico is going to use to go to war with us.

Surface to air Sombrero's.

Chili Rellenos attack helicopters.
Guacamole grenades.
Margarita pistols.

I've actually been top a few parties where those were being used.

Good times...

Supposedly I have to. There's video evidence but damn if I remember it.

(01-06-2017 04:42 PM)Paul M Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 01:00 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  First payment was those Carrier jobs that didn't leave. Second is these Ford Jobs.

Only a complete idiot expected us to send them a bill that they would write a check for.

Why you want to insult all his voters.

On the contrary, I think Ham was trying to give Trump supporters a way out. A way to say they never really believed that he would build a wall anyway or that Mexico would actually pay for it.

(01-06-2017 04:01 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 03:38 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 12:56 PM)cb4029 Wrote:  I'M pretty sure they will start a war with us before they pay a dime. I feel a giant FU will be coming from Mexico soon.

Mejico?!?

Start a war with the United States?

That'd last about the time it takes for a cup of coffee.

Yeah, cb has made some stupid posts of late but this one is beyond stupid.

Only a short bus rider like you would believe I was being serious with that comment.

I do love the responses though. lol.
Hey Tuskegee.

(01-06-2017 05:02 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 04:42 PM)Paul M Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 01:00 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  First payment was those Carrier jobs that didn't leave. Second is these Ford Jobs.

Only a complete idiot expected us to send them a bill that they would write a check for.

Why you want to insult all his voters.

On the contrary, I think Ham was trying to give Trump supporters a way out. A way to say they never really believed that he would build a wall anyway or that Mexico would actually pay for it.

Well, I guess that shows that 'stupid' doesn't only apply to the issue at hand.

I'm quite obviously saying that only morons think that he has changed his position. Very few of his supporters think he has, and most of those who do are idiots who think that an actual physical wall is practical or appropriate for the entire border (including rivers) or that they have to 'write a check' to 'pay' for something and that I suppose we'd invade them to force them to pay at gunpoint.

Most of us are smarter than that... whether or not we supported Trump OR the 'wall'. He apparently still intends to build a wall... and he apparently still intends to (in one way or another) reduce the number of US dollars that go to Mexico or get some of them back in order to pay for it.

I've seen nothing from any of you that refutes that

(01-06-2017 05:15 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 05:02 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 04:42 PM)Paul M Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 01:00 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  First payment was those Carrier jobs that didn't leave. Second is these Ford Jobs.

Only a complete idiot expected us to send them a bill that they would write a check for.

Why you want to insult all his voters.

On the contrary, I think Ham was trying to give Trump supporters a way out. A way to say they never really believed that he would build a wall anyway or that Mexico would actually pay for it.

Well, I guess that shows that 'stupid' doesn't only apply to the issue at hand.

I'm quite obviously saying that only morons think that he has changed his position. Very few of his supporters think he has, and most of those who do are idiots who think that an actual physical wall is practical or appropriate for the entire border (including rivers) or that they have to 'write a check' to 'pay' for something and that I suppose we'd invade them to force them to pay at gunpoint.

Most of us are smarter than that... whether or not we supported Trump OR the 'wall'.

I can't speak for some of you.

So you are going to double down on this?


That's very Trumpish of you.

(01-06-2017 05:08 PM)cb4029 Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 04:01 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 03:38 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 12:56 PM)cb4029 Wrote:  I'M pretty sure they will start a war with us before they pay a dime. I feel a giant FU will be coming from Mexico soon.

Mejico?!?

Start a war with the United States?

That'd last about the time it takes for a cup of coffee.

Yeah, cb has made some stupid posts of late but this one is beyond stupid.

Only a short bus rider like you would believe I was being serious with that comment.

I do love the responses though. lol.
Hey Tuskegee.

Only a window licker like yourself would think that anybody here takes you serious at all.

(01-06-2017 03:32 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 03:22 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 03:15 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  I wonder how much money (taxes) we'll receive from aliens sending money to Mexico and elsewhere? A tax on that dough should be a tidy sum, it should be implemented immediately. At least it will help offset the amount that is spent on health care for aliens in this country and especially in El Paso where all they need is a passport. It happens every time, as even the government authorities have taken illegals aliens to the hospital themselves.

I think it's illegal to deny someone medical aid regardless of immigration status.

It is (life saving anyway) but that isn't what he suggested.

What he suggested is a tax on money sent back to Mexico, often by people here illegally. They already pay a wire fee. And then to use that money to partially offset the care that we're providing to them.

Trump's suggestion was essentially purported to be that we not allow people not here legally to use our banking system to wire money unarguably EARNED illegally back overseas AT ALL. Under this plan, mexico loses $24byn or so. Under the tax plan, they perhaps lose $2.4byn/yr forever (a 10% tax) but they keep $21.6byn.

Mexico wouldn't be writing any checks, but they'd certainly be 'paying'... and only a hack would argue that the distinction was meaningful.

Taxing remittances, especially when there's a land border is really difficult. They'll just remit the money to Canada, or get a buddy to do it, using cash at a Western Union, then a Canadian will remit it to Mexico. Sure it will be illegal, but its hard to stop.

Also, we have zero outgoing border controls. Are you going to spend 20 billion on search stations at our land border crossings to check people leaving the US?

And if something like that is announced, watch for 100's of billions to be repatriated to Mexico all at once. And watch every other minority group do the same. All at once. It would be very bad for our financial system.

Every illegal would immediately remove themselves from our financial system. Many LEGAL immigrants would do the same. Many foreign investors would too. How much of our debt is held overseas? Do you really want to scare all of them too? By the way, many CITIZENS will send money overseas too. I've told my advisor, that sorry if he comes after anyone in our financial system, much of my money is going to Panama (I won't leave in a US custodial account).

DJT can try to do it, but he will raise very little and he'll end up costing the US economy billions upon billions more than he gains.

(01-06-2017 04:05 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 03:33 PM)JOwl Wrote:  That's a load of garbage Hammy. What does "one-time payment" mean to you?

You didn't realize he had actually written that. That much is clear.

Wow... really?

I actually had... though It's on his actual site and not on 'the wayback machine'. When i saw that you had resorted to that, I amended my comment since I hadn't read the entire page you linked/compared it to his and can't/hadn't verified its authenticity or consistency in its entirety.


The comment is, It's an easy decision for Mexico: make a one-time payment of $5-10 billion to ensure that $24 billion continues to flow into their country year
after year.

1) Are we going to bill them before it is built? You'd think we could narrow it down a little better than $5-10byn if that is the case.
2) If we bill them afterwards, are we going to wait years to pay our contractors?

Of course not. It seems obvious to anyone without an agenda that this 'one time payment' means 'pay once for the wall'... and not the 'send one check' that you seem to want to imply/believe.

Trump seems perfectly willing to accept keeping $24byn/yr forever in this country in lieu of that 'one time payment' and only a complete moron would say that doing so (if mexico were that stupid) would make Trump out to be a liar, since they didn't make a one time payment, but instead they gave up hundreds of thousands of small transactions. That is precisely the threat he's making.


Seriously... If Mexico said 'go ahead and keep that money', and Trump said 'okay', would you consider this a broken campaign promise since it wouldn't be one payment and wouldn't come from the Mexican government, even though it was a LARGE multiple of the cost of the wall?

If instead of writing a check, Mexico 'negotiated' a 10yr, 10% tarriff on those monies meaning rather than getting $5-10byn one time, that we got $2.4byn/yr for 10 years... I mean again, Mexico would be foolish to do this, but they certainly COULD.... would you consider this a broken campaign promise since it wouldn't be one payment and wouldn't come from the Mexican government even though it was again a multiple of the cost of the wall?

If Mexico instead negotiated (again, I have no idea what they'd use for leverage, but humoring your side's fantasies) a $5-10byn reduction in the aid currently being sent to Mexico (already on the budgets) but spread out over say 5-10 years (perhaps even paid as the contractors were paid), would you consider this a broken campaign promise since it wouldn't be one payment and wouldn't come from the Mexican government even though it was again a multiple of the cost of the wall?

In each of those scenario's, Mexico would have unarguably 'paid' for the wall. In each of those scenarios, Mexico would be given a choice between two options and most likely chosen the less expensive for them option, which is to some way in some manner 'pay for the wall'.

Of course those aren't the only options. The options are technically unlimited. Maybe they offer us Baja.

Any claims that any of these solutions don't meet the campaign promise are purely pedantic.

Whoa whoa whoa. Try not to trip over yourself back pedaling.

Your first comment was that we've already started to receive those payments in the form of Ford and Carrier jobs, and only a complete idiot expected us to get a check from Mexico.

All this stuff where Trump says we're going to receive actual cash to cover the actual costs of the wall runs entirely counter to your original claim. Unless of course your point is that Trump is a complete idiot (fair assessment).

(01-06-2017 06:01 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 03:32 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 03:22 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 03:15 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  I wonder how much money (taxes) we'll receive from aliens sending money to Mexico and elsewhere? A tax on that dough should be a tidy sum, it should be implemented immediately. At least it will help offset the amount that is spent on health care for aliens in this country and especially in El Paso where all they need is a passport. It happens every time, as even the government authorities have taken illegals aliens to the hospital themselves.

I think it's illegal to deny someone medical aid regardless of immigration status.

It is (life saving anyway) but that isn't what he suggested.

What he suggested is a tax on money sent back to Mexico, often by people here illegally. They already pay a wire fee. And then to use that money to partially offset the care that we're providing to them.

Trump's suggestion was essentially purported to be that we not allow people not here legally to use our banking system to wire money unarguably EARNED illegally back overseas AT ALL. Under this plan, mexico loses $24byn or so. Under the tax plan, they perhaps lose $2.4byn/yr forever (a 10% tax) but they keep $21.6byn.

Mexico wouldn't be writing any checks, but they'd certainly be 'paying'... and only a hack would argue that the distinction was meaningful.

Taxing remittances, especially when there's a land border is really difficult. They'll just remit the money to Canada, or get a buddy to do it, using cash at a Western Union, then a Canadian will remit it to Mexico. Sure it will be illegal, but its hard to stop.

Also, we have zero outgoing border controls. Are you going to spend 20 billion on search stations at our land border crossings to check people leaving the US?

And if something like that is announced, watch for 100's of billions to be repatriated to Mexico all at once. And watch every other minority group do the same. All at once. It would be very bad for our financial system.

Every illegal would immediately remove themselves from our financial system. Many LEGAL immigrants would do the same. Many foreign investors would too. How much of our debt is held overseas? Do you really want to scare all of them too?

DJT can try to do it, but he will raise very little and he'll end up costing the US economy billions upon billions more than he gains.

Shhhhhhhh. Just let it happen.

They actually think it's going to happen.

(01-06-2017 06:08 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 06:01 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 03:32 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 03:22 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-06-2017 03:15 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  I wonder how much money (taxes) we'll receive from aliens sending money to Mexico and elsewhere? A tax on that dough should be a tidy sum, it should be implemented immediately. At least it will help offset the amount that is spent on health care for aliens in this country and especially in El Paso where all they need is a passport. It happens every time, as even the government authorities have taken illegals aliens to the hospital themselves.

I think it's illegal to deny someone medical aid regardless of immigration status.

It is (life saving anyway) but that isn't what he suggested.

What he suggested is a tax on money sent back to Mexico, often by people here illegally. They already pay a wire fee. And then to use that money to partially offset the care that we're providing to them.

Trump's suggestion was essentially purported to be that we not allow people not here legally to use our banking system to wire money unarguably EARNED illegally back overseas AT ALL. Under this plan, mexico loses $24byn or so. Under the tax plan, they perhaps lose $2.4byn/yr forever (a 10% tax) but they keep $21.6byn.

Mexico wouldn't be writing any checks, but they'd certainly be 'paying'... and only a hack would argue that the distinction was meaningful.

Taxing remittances, especially when there's a land border is really difficult. They'll just remit the money to Canada, or get a buddy to do it, using cash at a Western Union, then a Canadian will remit it to Mexico. Sure it will be illegal, but its hard to stop.

Also, we have zero outgoing border controls. Are you going to spend 20 billion on search stations at our land border crossings to check people leaving the US?

And if something like that is announced, watch for 100's of billions to be repatriated to Mexico all at once. And watch every other minority group do the same. All at once. It would be very bad for our financial system.

Every illegal would immediately remove themselves from our financial system. Many LEGAL immigrants would do the same. Many foreign investors would too. How much of our debt is held overseas? Do you really want to scare all of them too?

DJT can try to do it, but he will raise very little and he'll end up costing the US economy billions upon billions more than he gains.

Shhhhhhhh. Just let it happen.

They actually think it's going to happen.

The problem is that .. Trump really means what he said. BTW, Panama is a decent enough place to open an account for quick funding if you're looking for a place to move your money when he starts doing crazy stuff. I don't have much there, just enough to keep it open in case I need to protect myself.

Currency controls would destroy our economy in about 1 week.

I wonder what it would do for the economy. What about manifestos?

(01-06-2017 06:17 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I wonder what it would do for the economy. What about manifestos?

Great! I had forgotten about manifestos. I'll talk to Trump about removing that benefit that only benefits Mexicans.

Thanks Fit, you're alright.