(10-31-2016 06:18 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  According to Bailiff's press conference quotes, Granato is actually the second string QB, but didn't make the trip to Ruston because of the aforementioned wisdom teeth issue. I assume they must have been causing him a lot of pain to decide to have them removed in the middle of football season.

I would call it a season for Stehling---he had his chances and, at times, played well. But all our preseason goals are gone; let’s start on a new goal: get ready for next year. Start either Granato or Tyner and switch them up as necessary. What is the downside? Inconsistent offense, like so far?

BTW, I was pleasantly surprised by Tyner’s accuracy, quick release and run toughness vs LaTech.

I think Stehling gets the nod this week but if we don't win against FAU, then we'll go to someone else for the Charlotte game. I see where the OL is incredibly beat up and I actually think Stehling has been improving but that his hands are tied in some sense due to all the injuries. We're also beat up at running back so I'd like to see us with a 2 tight end lineup at times to shore up the blocking. Give Stehling a chance at a conference win this week I say and then if that doesn't happen, go to Granato and/or Tyner for Charlotte and UTEP.

(11-01-2016 06:46 AM)Viejobuho Wrote:  I would call it a season for Stehling---he had his chances and, at times, played well. But all our preseason goals are gone; let’s start on a new goal: get ready for next year. Start either Granato or Tyner and switch them up as necessary. What is the downside? Inconsistent offense, like so far?

BTW, I was pleasantly surprised by Tyner’s accuracy, quick release and run toughness vs LaTech.

Agreed. Sit Tyler down, let him know that we need to start prepping for 2017, and put him in a three man rotation with Granato and Tyner.

(11-01-2016 07:23 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I think Stehling gets the nod this week but if we don't win against FAU, then we'll go to someone else for the Charlotte game. I see where the OL is incredibly beat up and I actually think Stehling has been improving but that his hands are tied in some sense due to all the injuries. We're also beat up at running back so I'd like to see us with a 2 tight end lineup at times to shore up the blocking. Give Stehling a chance at a conference win this week I say and then if that doesn't happen, go to Granato and/or Tyner for Charlotte and UTEP.

I'm really concerned about the rash of injuries over the past three years. I could be wrong, but I don't think that it was this bad under Coach K or prior. I hope that Tedford is the answer.

(11-01-2016 06:46 AM)Viejobuho Wrote:  

(10-31-2016 06:18 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  According to Bailiff's press conference quotes, Granato is actually the second string QB, but didn't make the trip to Ruston because of the aforementioned wisdom teeth issue. I assume they must have been causing him a lot of pain to decide to have them removed in the middle of football season.

I would call it a season for Stehling---he had his chances and, at times, played well. But all our preseason goals are gone; let’s start on a new goal: get ready for next year. Start either Granato or Tyner and switch them up as necessary. What is the downside? Inconsistent offense, like so far?

BTW, I was pleasantly surprised by Tyner’s accuracy, quick release and run toughness vs LaTech.

There weren't many highlights for us in the LaTech game...and I realize it was late in the 4th Q and the Bulldogs weren't playing their defensive starters...but I was pleasantly surprised with Tyner, his speed and delivery.

(11-01-2016 11:02 AM)greyowl72 Wrote:  

(11-01-2016 06:46 AM)Viejobuho Wrote:  

(10-31-2016 06:18 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  According to Bailiff's press conference quotes, Granato is actually the second string QB, but didn't make the trip to Ruston because of the aforementioned wisdom teeth issue. I assume they must have been causing him a lot of pain to decide to have them removed in the middle of football season.

I would call it a season for Stehling---he had his chances and, at times, played well. But all our preseason goals are gone; let’s start on a new goal: get ready for next year. Start either Granato or Tyner and switch them up as necessary. What is the downside? Inconsistent offense, like so far?

BTW, I was pleasantly surprised by Tyner’s accuracy, quick release and run toughness vs LaTech.

There weren't many highlights for us in the LaTech game...and I realize it was late in the 4th Q and the Bulldogs weren't playing their defensive starters...but I was pleasantly surprised with Tyner, his speed and delivery.

Agree about both points, but in particulary the fact Tyner was working against Tech's bench. It's hard to imagine that Tech's first team defense, which sacked Stehling 5 times, wouldn't have had a field day with an inexperienced QB and a depleted OL.

maybe Rick, but I saw Tyner getting rid of the ball quickly and Stehling holding on/being indecisive. Stehling probably faced better coverage, and maybe Tyner throws into coverage for picks or holds on as well, but you don't know until you put him in and see, which is entirely the point of playing these guys when you can and letting them run the offense.

If he held it against the back-ups, you move him to another position.

Given the situation (we aren't going anywhere and 1-11 vs 3-9 against this remaining crew isn't meaningfully different), I'd be okay with starting Stehling as a Senior and giving Tyner or Granato the opportunity to 'see what they're doing' for one series this week and maybe going forward depending on how it goes, but we need to see what we have.

Going 3-9 with Stehling doesn't tell you anything about next year, but going 3-9 with Tyner and/or Granato might.

Maybe the players we are recruiting or not tough enough for Div I or Bailiff is treating them like babies.

(11-01-2016 10:39 AM)Pan95 Wrote:  

(11-01-2016 06:46 AM)Viejobuho Wrote:  I would call it a season for Stehling---he had his chances and, at times, played well. But all our preseason goals are gone; let’s start on a new goal: get ready for next year. Start either Granato or Tyner and switch them up as necessary. What is the downside? Inconsistent offense, like so far?

BTW, I was pleasantly surprised by Tyner’s accuracy, quick release and run toughness vs LaTech.

Agreed. Sit Tyler down, let him know that we need to start prepping for 2017, and put him in a three man rotation with Granato and Tyner.

(11-01-2016 07:23 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I think Stehling gets the nod this week but if we don't win against FAU, then we'll go to someone else for the Charlotte game. I see where the OL is incredibly beat up and I actually think Stehling has been improving but that his hands are tied in some sense due to all the injuries. We're also beat up at running back so I'd like to see us with a 2 tight end lineup at times to shore up the blocking. Give Stehling a chance at a conference win this week I say and then if that doesn't happen, go to Granato and/or Tyner for Charlotte and UTEP.

I'm really concerned about the rash of injuries over the past three years. I could be wrong, but I don't think that it was this bad under Coach K or prior. I hope that Tedford is the answer.

(11-01-2016 12:42 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  maybe Rick, but I saw Tyner getting rid of the ball quickly and Stehling holding on/being indecisive. Stehling probably faced better coverage, and maybe Tyner throws into coverage for picks or holds on as well, but you don't know until you put him in and see, which is entirely the point of playing these guys when you can and letting them run the offense.

If he held it against the back-ups, you move him to another position.

Given the situation (we aren't going anywhere and 1-11 vs 3-9 against this remaining crew isn't meaningfully different), I'd be okay with starting Stehling as a Senior and giving Tyner or Granato the opportunity to 'see what they're doing' for one series this week and maybe going forward depending on how it goes, but we need to see what we have.

Going 3-9 with Stehling doesn't tell you anythingh about next year, but going 3-9 with Tyner and/or Granato might.

I certainly wasn't arguing against giving Granato or Yyner snaps/playing time. Just saying that his TD drive, while a nice surprise isn't the same as if he had engineered the drive against the Tech first string coming after him with their ears pinned back. Hopefully we build a big lead in one or more of our remaining games and he or Granato (or both) gets some time against a starting defense.

(11-01-2016 01:18 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(11-01-2016 12:42 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  maybe Rick, but I saw Tyner getting rid of the ball quickly and Stehling holding on/being indecisive. Stehling probably faced better coverage, and maybe Tyner throws into coverage for picks or holds on as well, but you don't know until you put him in and see, which is entirely the point of playing these guys when you can and letting them run the offense.

If he held it against the back-ups, you move him to another position.

Given the situation (we aren't going anywhere and 1-11 vs 3-9 against this remaining crew isn't meaningfully different), I'd be okay with starting Stehling as a Senior and giving Tyner or Granato the opportunity to 'see what they're doing' for one series this week and maybe going forward depending on how it goes, but we need to see what we have.

Going 3-9 with Stehling doesn't tell you anythingh about next year, but going 3-9 with Tyner and/or Granato might.

I certainly wasn't arguing against giving Granato or Yyner snaps/playing time. Just saying that his TD drive, while a nice surprise isn't the same as if he had engineered the drive against the Tech first string coming after him with their ears pinned back. Hopefully we build a big lead in one or more of our remaining games and he or Granato (or both) gets some time against a starting defense.

There's a simpler way of getting Tyner some time against a starting defense. Just put him in. I'm not saying bench Stehling, but why not give Tyner some real experience? There's nothing at stake now.

I think Tyner/Granato should be getting significant time (at least two quarters, but probably more)to allow the new coach to have some game film on them. A few plays here and there isn't going to cut it.

(11-01-2016 01:38 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  I think Tyner/Granato should be getting significant time (at least two quarters, but probably more)to allow the new coach to have some game film on them. A few plays here and there isn't going to cut it.

That should be a minimum requirement for DB getting to keep his job until the end of the season. If he's unwilling to do so, but someone in place who will.

(11-01-2016 12:42 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  maybe Rick, but I saw Tyner getting rid of the ball quickly and Stehling holding on/being indecisive. Stehling probably faced better coverage, and maybe Tyner throws into coverage for picks or holds on as well, but you don't know until you put him in and see, which is entirely the point of playing these guys when you can and letting them run the offense.

If he held it against the back-ups, you move him to another position.

Given the situation (we aren't going anywhere and 1-11 vs 3-9 against this remaining crew isn't meaningfully different), I'd be okay with starting Stehling as a Senior and giving Tyner or Granato the opportunity to 'see what they're doing' for one series this week and maybe going forward depending on how it goes, but we need to see what we have.

Going 3-9 with Stehling doesn't tell you anything about next year, but going 3-9 with Tyner and/or Granato might.

3-9 vs 1-11 is a big difference to the AD. If it's 3-9, he will spin it that Rice started 0-6 but finished 3-3 and that gives hope for next year and not fire Bailiff...

The excuses are already popping up on the athletic website, the youth, flu, and injuries....

(11-01-2016 03:07 PM)WIowl Wrote:  

(11-01-2016 12:42 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  maybe Rick, but I saw Tyner getting rid of the ball quickly and Stehling holding on/being indecisive. Stehling probably faced better coverage, and maybe Tyner throws into coverage for picks or holds on as well, but you don't know until you put him in and see, which is entirely the point of playing these guys when you can and letting them run the offense.

If he held it against the back-ups, you move him to another position.

Given the situation (we aren't going anywhere and 1-11 vs 3-9 against this remaining crew isn't meaningfully different), I'd be okay with starting Stehling as a Senior and giving Tyner or Granato the opportunity to 'see what they're doing' for one series this week and maybe going forward depending on how it goes, but we need to see what we have.

Going 3-9 with Stehling doesn't tell you anything about next year, but going 3-9 with Tyner and/or Granato might.

3-9 vs 1-11 is a big difference to the AD. If it's 3-9, he will spin it that Rice started 0-6 but finished 3-3 and that gives hope for next year and not fire Bailiff...

The excuses are already popping up on the athletic website, the youth, flu, and injuries....

I'm with you, WI. if we win two or three of our remaining games, against horrid competition, we will hear DB has turned the corner and is going in the right direction. We just needed to have patience. Patience has been rewarded. DB will continue leading Rice to its unprecedented level of success.

Don't let this happen. Fire him now.

(11-01-2016 03:16 PM)Ranger Wrote:  

(11-01-2016 03:07 PM)WIowl Wrote:  3-9 vs 1-11 is a big difference to the AD. If it's 3-9, he will spin it that Rice started 0-6 but finished 3-3 and that gives hope for next year and not fire Bailiff...

The excuses are already popping up on the athletic website, the youth, flu, and injuries....

I'm with you, WI. if we win two or three of our remaining games, against horrid competition, we will hear DB has turned the corner and is going in the right direction. We just needed to have patience. Patience has been rewarded. DB will continue leading Rice to its unprecedented level of success.

Don't let this happen. Fire him now.

I doubt it. Little risk to JK to fire DB. If his replacement doesn't work out, he can argue that he wanted someone else but his hands were financially tied. If he keeps him, he shares his record.

Sure he'll spin that it's showing improvement, that things aren't as bad as they seem, but that isn't necessarily to defend Bailiff. Why would he want to do that?

Best thing for JK would be to fire DB and have the new guy pull a TG in terms of 'turnaround' with all that returning and now (supposedly) healthy talent. Fire a guy who goes 3-9 and replace him with a guy who immediately goes 6-5 and a bowl? That's far better than keeping a guy who goes 6-5 and a bowl.

I think it would be smart to give all 3 QBs 2-3 drives, then rotate. The guy who is playing best finishes the game and Stehling gets dropped from the rotation if he is being out-played by Granato/Tyner. Give Stehling the first 2-3 drives so he remains the "starter" unless he is outplayed.

(11-01-2016 01:48 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(11-01-2016 01:38 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  I think Tyner/Granato should be getting significant time (at least two quarters, but probably more)to allow the new coach to have some game film on them. A few plays here and there isn't going to cut it.

That should be a minimum requirement for DB getting to keep his job until the end of the season. If he's unwilling to do so, but someone in place who will.

100% agree. Otherwise he is sabotaging the football team's future.

(11-01-2016 01:38 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  I think Tyner/Granato should be getting significant time (at least two quarters, but probably more)to allow the new coach to have some game film on them. A few plays here and there isn't going to cut it.

Hypothetical: Suppose the AD ordered DB to do precisely that. Suppose he refused. Would that constitute insubordination? Would it be grounds for termination with cause? Would it create any negotiating leverage to reduce the buyout? I doubt it, but I haven't seen his contract.

(11-01-2016 01:18 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  I certainly wasn't arguing against giving Granato or Yyner snaps/playing time. Just saying that his TD drive, while a nice surprise isn't the same as if he had engineered the drive against the Tech first string coming after him with their ears pinned back. Hopefully we build a big lead in one or more of our remaining games and he or Granato (or both) gets some time against a starting defense.

I understand you weren't, and of course it's different, but my point was that we learned all we can learn about Tyner against second teamers, and IMO he passed. He ran the offense, he threw the ball in rhythm and didn't hang on too long... so unless he made some horrible reads, I want to see if he has the same rhythm against better competition, which you don't get in a blowout in either direction. I suspect that Stehling looked similarly smooth against our scout team, but he holds on too long against better defenses. These are precisely the things we need to know

I just don't care enough about the difference between 1-11 and 3-9 (especially against this competition) to worry about putting lipstick on this pig. I want to make NEXT years team one first down per game better (at least) by giving these guys some REAL time. If we want to 'start' Stehling, that's fine... I just don't want to get so caught up in it.

The guys are right, and those who played when I did know it... that there IS value in 'losing' the right way... and PART of using it the right way is to build for the future.

(11-01-2016 07:11 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-01-2016 01:38 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  I think Tyner/Granato should be getting significant time (at least two quarters, but probably more)to allow the new coach to have some game film on them. A few plays here and there isn't going to cut it.

Hypothetical: Suppose the AD ordered DB to do precisely that. Suppose he refused. Would that constitute insubordination? Would it be grounds for termination with cause? Would it create any negotiating leverage to reduce the buyout? I doubt it, but I haven't seen his contract.

Fair point. In that case, regardless of whether it is legaly defined as insubordination in his contract, I would assume that Bailiff is financially incentivized to continue his tenure as coach (assuming his buyout money if he was fired today is less than the sum of his salary for last four games and his buyout as a result of being terminated at end of season). Therefore, I could see a scenario where Karlgaard allows him to stay on through end of season (better financial situation for Bailiff) in return for Bailiff playing the younger QBs (benefit for future coach). But obviously just supposition on my part regarding that.

(11-01-2016 08:57 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  

(11-01-2016 07:11 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-01-2016 01:38 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  I think Tyner/Granato should be getting significant time (at least two quarters, but probably more)to allow the new coach to have some game film on them. A few plays here and there isn't going to cut it.

Hypothetical: Suppose the AD ordered DB to do precisely that. Suppose he refused. Would that constitute insubordination? Would it be grounds for termination with cause? Would it create any negotiating leverage to reduce the buyout? I doubt it, but I haven't seen his contract.

Fair point. In that case, regardless of whether it is legaly defined as insubordination in his contract, I would assume that Bailiff is financially incentivized to continue his tenure as coach (assuming his buyout money if he was fired today is less than the sum of his salary for last four games and his buyout as a result of being terminated at end of season). Therefore, I could see a scenario where Karlgaard allows him to stay on through end of season (better financial situation for Bailiff) in return for Bailiff playing the younger QBs (benefit for future coach). But obviously just supposition on my part regarding that.

I don't know where some of you guys are dreaming this stuff up. JK and no other AD worth his salt is going to dictate to a head coach who plays or even who his assistant coaches are. Rather, he holds the head coach accountable. Period.