Robert E. Lee was a great American.

The Civil War came at a great cost. States rights were forever, wrongly, seen as unneeded.

95% of the kids, parents, teachers, and administrators had no idea who most of the schools were named after, and 95% probably don't know who the new namesakes are either.

(08-12-2016 02:31 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  95% of the kids, parents, teachers, and administrators had no idea who most of the schools were named after, and 95% probably don't know who the new namesakes are either.

dont tell Tom that!

(08-12-2016 02:37 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 02:31 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  95% of the kids, parents, teachers, and administrators had no idea who most of the schools were named after, and 95% probably don't know who the new namesakes are either.

dont tell Tom that!

Funny thing is this...you guys seem to be very concerned about the names. Meh, let them spend the 80k or so on name changes. Its not your damn school system. HISD is a net CONTRIBUTOR in Texas state funding. So if you don't personally live in HISD, then its not your business. If they want to name a school after Malcolm X, tough. If you do live in HISD, you're welcome to run for school board or ask your elected representative to intervene on your behalf.

Remember those schools were named at a time when minorities weren't getting their names and histories venerated. Makes sense to even things up a bit.

(08-12-2016 02:41 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 02:37 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 02:31 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  95% of the kids, parents, teachers, and administrators had no idea who most of the schools were named after, and 95% probably don't know who the new namesakes are either.

dont tell Tom that!

Funny thing is this...you guys seem to be very concerned about the names. Meh, let them spend the 80k or so on name changes. Its not your damn school system. HISD is a net CONTRIBUTOR in Texas state funding. So if you don't personally live in HISD, then its not your business. If they want to name a school after Malcolm X, tough.

Remember those schools were named at a time when minorities weren't getting their names and histories venerated. Makes sense to even things up a bit.

$80k was for the 4 high schools to get their band uniforms changed. Good try though!



and I do live in HISD, so it is my business...

but make sure to take your own advice when something outside of Houston happens and you decide to butt in.

(08-12-2016 02:09 PM)john01992 Wrote:  ah. so basically what you are saying is that there should be more benedict arnold high schools.

If someone wants to go make a brand new school in New York and call it the Benedict Arnold high school , then they can go right ahead and try to convince the public they should do that.

But for a school board to just go off and say... "nope, we have money, we're renaming it".

Note that nowhere in the article does it say this was approved by the public (In fact they link to a video that says Parents disapprove of the renaming).

(08-12-2016 02:17 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 02:07 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 02:06 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 12:36 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 10:20 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  http://abc13.com/education/hisd-approves...s/1466632/

Such a waste.

And its not just the Confederacy they are pretending didn't exist.

AS Johnston, a general killed at Shiloh, was a Texas Revolution hero.

John Reagan, the Confederate Postmaster General, was a prominent citizen and Texas Revolution hero.

Sidney Lanier was much better known as a poet than for his time as a Confederate soldier.

Dick Dowling was known for being a soldier, but unlike Lee, Jackson and Davis, he was a Houstonian and Texan. And his story was inspiring. He lead 50 men at the Battle of Sabine Pass and stopped a Yankee invasion fleet with 5000 men.

I think this is the part that pisses me off more than anything..

Everyone on this list pretty much fought in the Mexican-American war for the States and for Texas, I believe. Were they on the Confederate side of the Civil war? Yes.. but does that completely overshadow what they did do for Texas at the time?

The truth is this isn't about what these people did or did not do nor is it about who they were.

Exactly! This is about liberals getting triggered at the sight of something that they dont agree on.

I'd go a step further. When it comes to things of the South there is flat our culture genocide.

(08-12-2016 02:31 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  95% of the kids, parents, teachers, and administrators had no idea who most of the schools were named after, and 95% probably don't know who the new namesakes are either.

Probably 100% don't know who the new ones are.

Lee had already dropped "Robert E." from its name.

In the past, they did let you know who the school was named after. I don't know if they do that anymore.

(08-12-2016 02:41 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 02:37 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 02:31 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  95% of the kids, parents, teachers, and administrators had no idea who most of the schools were named after, and 95% probably don't know who the new namesakes are either.

dont tell Tom that!

Funny thing is this...you guys seem to be very concerned about the names. Meh, let them spend the 80k or so on name changes. Its not your damn school system. HISD is a net CONTRIBUTOR in Texas state funding. So if you don't personally live in HISD, then its not your business. If they want to name a school after Malcolm X, tough. If you do live in HISD, you're welcome to run for school board or ask your elected representative to intervene on your behalf.

Remember those schools were named at a time when minorities weren't getting their names and histories venerated. Makes sense to even things up a bit.

Well one of the elementaries that feeds Dick Dowling was named after a Black janitor who died saving some kids from a bomb in another HISD elementary school. Both were opened about the same time. So you are wrong again.

(08-12-2016 03:34 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 02:09 PM)john01992 Wrote:  ah. so basically what you are saying is that there should be more benedict arnold high schools.

If someone wants to go make a brand new school in New York and call it the Benedict Arnold high school , then they can go right ahead and try to convince the public they should do that.

But for a school board to just go off and say... "nope, we have money, we're renaming it".

Note that nowhere in the article does it say this was approved by the public (In fact they link to a video that says Parents disapprove of the renaming).

ah. so basically what you are saying is racism is okay because of popular sovereignty.

(08-12-2016 02:41 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 02:37 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 02:31 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  95% of the kids, parents, teachers, and administrators had no idea who most of the schools were named after, and 95% probably don't know who the new namesakes are either.

dont tell Tom that!

Funny thing is this...you guys seem to be very concerned about the names. Meh, let them spend the 80k or so on name changes. Its not your damn school system. HISD is a net CONTRIBUTOR in Texas state funding. So if you don't personally live in HISD, then its not your business. If they want to name a school after Malcolm X, tough. If you do live in HISD, you're welcome to run for school board or ask your elected representative to intervene on your behalf.

Remember those schools were named at a time when minorities weren't getting their names and histories venerated. Makes sense to even things up a bit.

And I paid taxes to HISD for a quarter century and went to one of those schools and my kids attended a different HISD school.

Stonewall Jackson doesn't have a lot of ties to Texas. Jeff Davis was a hero of the Mexican War, but other than that didn't have many ties to Texas and was a lousy president. Those two, ok. I don't agree with changing Lee and Dowling as both had inspiring stories, but their fame is primarily from the Civil War so the PC culture warriors at least have a reason. But changing the other 3 is just ridiculous. It displays the ignorance of the school board.

(08-12-2016 04:19 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 03:34 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 02:09 PM)john01992 Wrote:  ah. so basically what you are saying is that there should be more benedict arnold high schools.

If someone wants to go make a brand new school in New York and call it the Benedict Arnold high school , then they can go right ahead and try to convince the public they should do that.

But for a school board to just go off and say... "nope, we have money, we're renaming it".

Note that nowhere in the article does it say this was approved by the public (In fact they link to a video that says Parents disapprove of the renaming).

ah. so basically what you are saying is racism is okay because of popular sovereignty.

(08-12-2016 04:19 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 03:34 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 02:09 PM)john01992 Wrote:  ah. so basically what you are saying is that there should be more benedict arnold high schools.

If someone wants to go make a brand new school in New York and call it the Benedict Arnold high school , then they can go right ahead and try to convince the public they should do that.

But for a school board to just go off and say... "nope, we have money, we're renaming it".

Note that nowhere in the article does it say this was approved by the public (In fact they link to a video that says Parents disapprove of the renaming).

ah. so basically what you are saying is racism is okay because of popular sovereignty.

Pretty bizarre leap to racism.

Jeff Davis HS grads & parents were very opposed to changing the name. So were the Lanier parents. I believe Reagan HS grads and parents were opposed as well and possibly the AS Johnston parents. They initially delayed any action on 3 or 4 because of opposition. The others don't have very involved families.

john isn't going to reply to your actual words folks.

(08-12-2016 11:42 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Look, having a school named after an oppressor (for you Confederates - perceived oppressor if you'd like) can be very damaging to a school's mission. By the way, HISD is probably the BEST large urban school system in the country. Compared to its other urban peers and to those that have a 76 poverty rate of its students, it actually matches up well.

No white guilt here. Just a frank understanding that rebellion for the purpose of retaining/protecting slavery isn't something that should be venerated and is something that could harm the educational misson of HISD. Support for the Confederacy and veneration of its leaders was considered socially acceptable at one point. It really isn't now. Confederates were people of their age, with views of their age. Times change. And in this case, for the better. Besides, keeping those names up there probably cause more animosity towards those who wish to retain some historical context of the Civil War than they would have otherwise.

At some point, those names were going to be changed. So the money was going to spent eventually. 1.5 million out of a 1.8 billion dollar budget? For something that will be appreciated by thousands of the school students and opposed by virtually none of the stakeholders in HISD? No issue.

And I think some of y'all know that I'm a relative of at least one prominent target of the renaming controversy too. No issue with hauling the statues down and renaming the buildings. I'd love for them to put up something that all Southerners can be uplifted by in their stead. We have much to be proud of...why insist on divisive symbolism?

Ha! The only issue with this argument is that Lincoln hated the Blacks. And no where at any time stated he was fighting to free the slaves. No Congressional record no speech.

But hey carry on SJW.

As far as a divisive symbols go, that multi colored rainbai rag is a nasty as they come.

I'll probably never see this thread again, but wanted to mention that there's no way a new set of marching band uniforms for a 200-member band costs only $20k.

I went through the process of designing/ordering new band uniforms two years ago for a band of 80 students & that ran about $45k for a typical, modern uniform.

You don't buy 200 uniforms for 200 kids. You buy 275-300 uniforms because SIZING.

That $20k figure is not well-researched. I guarantee the cost for those bands is AT LEAST $50k if not higher.

(08-12-2016 04:02 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 02:17 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 02:07 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 02:06 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 12:36 PM)bullet Wrote:  Such a waste.

And its not just the Confederacy they are pretending didn't exist.

AS Johnston, a general killed at Shiloh, was a Texas Revolution hero.

John Reagan, the Confederate Postmaster General, was a prominent citizen and Texas Revolution hero.

Sidney Lanier was much better known as a poet than for his time as a Confederate soldier.

Dick Dowling was known for being a soldier, but unlike Lee, Jackson and Davis, he was a Houstonian and Texan. And his story was inspiring. He lead 50 men at the Battle of Sabine Pass and stopped a Yankee invasion fleet with 5000 men.

I think this is the part that pisses me off more than anything..

Everyone on this list pretty much fought in the Mexican-American war for the States and for Texas, I believe. Were they on the Confederate side of the Civil war? Yes.. but does that completely overshadow what they did do for Texas at the time?

The truth is this isn't about what these people did or did not do nor is it about who they were.

Exactly! This is about liberals getting triggered at the sight of something that they dont agree on.

I'd go a step further. When it comes to things of the South there is flat our culture genocide.

The South is an acceptable target.

(08-13-2016 10:57 AM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 04:02 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 02:17 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 02:07 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 02:06 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  I think this is the part that pisses me off more than anything..

Everyone on this list pretty much fought in the Mexican-American war for the States and for Texas, I believe. Were they on the Confederate side of the Civil war? Yes.. but does that completely overshadow what they did do for Texas at the time?

The truth is this isn't about what these people did or did not do nor is it about who they were.

Exactly! This is about liberals getting triggered at the sight of something that they dont agree on.

I'd go a step further. When it comes to things of the South there is flat our culture genocide.

The South is an acceptable target.

The South is not a target. The South is not the Confederacy

The Confederacy is problematic for many Southerners. Especially since Confederate symbols were frequently venerated and promulgated in order to show support for segregation in the 1960's and later.

There is a place for context of the Civil War. I don't think that public buildings are a correct place for that.

The American South is not a target.

(08-13-2016 11:36 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-13-2016 10:57 AM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 04:02 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 02:17 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  [quote='HeartOfDixie' pid='13467746' dateline='1471028849']

The truth is this isn't about what these people did or did not do nor is it about who they were.

Exactly! This is about liberals getting triggered at the sight of something that they dont agree on.

I'd go a step further. When it comes to things of the South there is flat our culture genocide.

The South is an acceptable target.

The South is not a target. The South is not the Confederacy

The Confederacy is problematic for many Southerners. Especially since Confederate symbols were frequently venerated and promulgated in order to show support for segregation in the 1960's and later.

There is a place for context of the Civil War. I don't think that public buildings are a correct place for that.

The American South is not a target.
[/qhen
then why remove Lanier, Reagan and AS Johnston? The South is a target.

Next will be Jesse Jones HS since he was a racist and James Madison HS since he owned slaves. Lamar HS also since he probably owned slaves as well and he drove the Cherokees out of Texas.