(08-09-2016 03:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 03:17 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 03:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 01:48 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  I must be missing something, but it seems as Tom thinks membership in FCA is mandatory to play sports in high school.

Read the article I linked to. The coaches are putting ministry ahead of the team. In the public schools. And that is the FCA model.

And good luck getting into HS coaching in some parts if you rightly don't allow outside fundy groups special access to cram evangelical religion down the players throats using the implied authority of the coaches.

Is this a recent phenomenon running rampant across the nation's high schools these days? I remember FCA back in high school, lots of kids were members but never did religion come up during practices/games other than a simple prayer every now and then and there was never any evangelizing, etc. Unless things have done a 180 this seems to be nothing more than ANOTHER example of folks making mountains out of molehills, etc.

Maybe in Virginia, coaches don't try to steer players to the FCA. Not my experience in Alabama.

Whats wrong with that? Just decline.

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(08-09-2016 06:41 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 03:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 03:17 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 03:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 01:48 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  I must be missing something, but it seems as Tom thinks membership in FCA is mandatory to play sports in high school.

Read the article I linked to. The coaches are putting ministry ahead of the team. In the public schools. And that is the FCA model.

And good luck getting into HS coaching in some parts if you rightly don't allow outside fundy groups special access to cram evangelical religion down the players throats using the implied authority of the coaches.

Is this a recent phenomenon running rampant across the nation's high schools these days? I remember FCA back in high school, lots of kids were members but never did religion come up during practices/games other than a simple prayer every now and then and there was never any evangelizing, etc. Unless things have done a 180 this seems to be nothing more than ANOTHER example of folks making mountains out of molehills, etc.

Maybe in Virginia, coaches don't try to steer players to the FCA. Not my experience in Alabama.

Whats wrong with that? Just decline.

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If you're the star player, of course you can do that. Less easy when you're a marginal player fighting for PT. And also, remember, that these are frequently presented as team activities. The implication is also that if you don't participate, you're not being a team player. In my personal experience, these implications were not corrected by the coaches. In the attached article, it appears that the practices of pushing the FCA on players continues.

It is wrong to steer public school players to any religion.

(08-09-2016 06:49 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 06:41 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 03:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 03:17 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 03:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Read the article I linked to. The coaches are putting ministry ahead of the team. In the public schools. And that is the FCA model.

And good luck getting into HS coaching in some parts if you rightly don't allow outside fundy groups special access to cram evangelical religion down the players throats using the implied authority of the coaches.

Is this a recent phenomenon running rampant across the nation's high schools these days? I remember FCA back in high school, lots of kids were members but never did religion come up during practices/games other than a simple prayer every now and then and there was never any evangelizing, etc. Unless things have done a 180 this seems to be nothing more than ANOTHER example of folks making mountains out of molehills, etc.

Maybe in Virginia, coaches don't try to steer players to the FCA. Not my experience in Alabama.

Whats wrong with that? Just decline.

Sent from my VS980 4G using CSNbbs mobile app

If you're the star player, of course you can do that. Less easy when you're a marginal player fighting for PT. And also, remember, that these are frequently presented as team activities. The implication is also that if you don't participate, you're not being a team player. In my personal experience, these implications were not corrected by the coaches. In the attached article, it appears that the practices of pushing the FCA on players continues.

It is wrong to steer public school players to any religion.

Lol. Ok. So they force kids into FCA in Alabama. Why have the group at all if you cant ask people to join?

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(08-09-2016 06:49 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 06:41 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 03:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 03:17 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 03:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Read the article I linked to. The coaches are putting ministry ahead of the team. In the public schools. And that is the FCA model.

And good luck getting into HS coaching in some parts if you rightly don't allow outside fundy groups special access to cram evangelical religion down the players throats using the implied authority of the coaches.

Is this a recent phenomenon running rampant across the nation's high schools these days? I remember FCA back in high school, lots of kids were members but never did religion come up during practices/games other than a simple prayer every now and then and there was never any evangelizing, etc. Unless things have done a 180 this seems to be nothing more than ANOTHER example of folks making mountains out of molehills, etc.

Maybe in Virginia, coaches don't try to steer players to the FCA. Not my experience in Alabama.

Whats wrong with that? Just decline.

Sent from my VS980 4G using CSNbbs mobile app

If you're the star player, of course you can do that. Less easy when you're a marginal player fighting for PT. And also, remember, that these are frequently presented as team activities. The implication is also that if you don't participate, you're not being a team player. In my personal experience, these implications were not corrected by the coaches. In the attached article, it appears that the practices of pushing the FCA on players continues.

It is wrong to steer public school players to any religion.

I can see your point about implicit requirements but I don't necessarily agree with your conclusions.

If you would engage my hypothetical i would be appreciative.

A player knows his coach is super politically active and wants the team to attend a rally in support of marriage equality. The player does not feel comfortable going because of his religious beliefs. The player is afraid to express this though because he does not want to upset the coach and is afraid of being singled out. What should he do

(08-09-2016 07:12 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 06:49 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 06:41 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 03:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 03:17 PM)VA49er Wrote:  Is this a recent phenomenon running rampant across the nation's high schools these days? I remember FCA back in high school, lots of kids were members but never did religion come up during practices/games other than a simple prayer every now and then and there was never any evangelizing, etc. Unless things have done a 180 this seems to be nothing more than ANOTHER example of folks making mountains out of molehills, etc.

Maybe in Virginia, coaches don't try to steer players to the FCA. Not my experience in Alabama.

Whats wrong with that? Just decline.

Sent from my VS980 4G using CSNbbs mobile app

If you're the star player, of course you can do that. Less easy when you're a marginal player fighting for PT. And also, remember, that these are frequently presented as team activities. The implication is also that if you don't participate, you're not being a team player. In my personal experience, these implications were not corrected by the coaches. In the attached article, it appears that the practices of pushing the FCA on players continues.

It is wrong to steer public school players to any religion.

I can see your point about implicit requirements but I don't necessarily agree with your conclusions.

If you would engage my hypothetical i would be appreciative.

A player knows his coach is super politically active and wants the team to attend a rally in support of marriage equality. The player does not feel comfortable going because of his religious beliefs. The player is afraid to express this though because he does not want to upset the coach and is afraid of being singled out. What should he do

It would inappropriate for a coach to encourage his charges to go to a church service, attend a political rally, etc. It would also be inappropriate for a teacher to do that as well

Look, lets not pretend that the FCA doesn't have an agenda.

In our case, the non-evangelicals just picked other sports and went to individual sports and soccer.

Sue, and you're being a 'whiner'. People don't make claims lightly. That's why they shouldn't be dismissed easily.

So where is the appropriate environment to ask somebody to join FCA?

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(08-09-2016 07:55 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  So where is the appropriate environment to ask somebody to join FCA?

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At their church.

(08-09-2016 07:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 07:55 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  So where is the appropriate environment to ask somebody to join FCA?

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At their church.

So students cannot have a religious student group at school in middle or high school?

(08-09-2016 07:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 07:55 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  So where is the appropriate environment to ask somebody to join FCA?

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At their church.

So not where the athletes are actually located.

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(08-09-2016 03:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 03:17 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 03:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 01:48 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  I must be missing something, but it seems as Tom thinks membership in FCA is mandatory to play sports in high school.

Read the article I linked to. The coaches are putting ministry ahead of the team. In the public schools. And that is the FCA model.

And good luck getting into HS coaching in some parts if you rightly don't allow outside fundy groups special access to cram evangelical religion down the players throats using the implied authority of the coaches.

Is this a recent phenomenon running rampant across the nation's high schools these days? I remember FCA back in high school, lots of kids were members but never did religion come up during practices/games other than a simple prayer every now and then and there was never any evangelizing, etc. Unless things have done a 180 this seems to be nothing more than ANOTHER example of folks making mountains out of molehills, etc.

Maybe in Virginia, coaches don't try to steer players to the FCA. Not my experience in Alabama.

I played in Alabama at the college level and I faced no pressure to join our FCA group. Sure our coaches hired motivational speakers some of them had religious tone to the message but none were gay bashing as you claim or if I did not participate I received no less or more PT for it.

Most places are based on how you preform not what you believe. This is a nonissue. Especially at college level but still applies at high school level.

(08-09-2016 08:06 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 07:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 07:55 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  So where is the appropriate environment to ask somebody to join FCA?

Sent from my VS980 4G using CSNbbs mobile app

At their church.

So students cannot have a religious student group at school in middle or high school?

Students can. But it shouldn't be run by coaches and it shouldn't be tied to the athletic program. The FCA pretty much does both.

(08-09-2016 09:34 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 08:06 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 07:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 07:55 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  So where is the appropriate environment to ask somebody to join FCA?

Sent from my VS980 4G using CSNbbs mobile app

At their church.

So students cannot have a religious student group at school in middle or high school?

Students can. But it shouldn't be run by coaches and it shouldn't be tied to the athletic program. The FCA pretty much does both.

So athletes cannot have a Christian athletic group with a coach as the adult sponsor?

(08-09-2016 09:36 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 09:34 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 08:06 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 07:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 07:55 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  So where is the appropriate environment to ask somebody to join FCA?

Sent from my VS980 4G using CSNbbs mobile app

At their church.

So students cannot have a religious student group at school in middle or high school?

Students can. But it shouldn't be run by coaches and it shouldn't be tied to the athletic program. The FCA pretty much does both.

So athletes cannot have a Christian athletic group with a coach as the adult sponsor?

If the club is for athletes only, then the appropriate sponsor should not be a coach. Easy way to keep coercion down. Actually the FCA's policy of limiting inclusion to lettermen/women makes it very easy to avoid coercion.

(08-09-2016 09:40 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 09:36 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 09:34 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 08:06 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 07:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  At their church.

So students cannot have a religious student group at school in middle or high school?

Students can. But it shouldn't be run by coaches and it shouldn't be tied to the athletic program. The FCA pretty much does both.

So athletes cannot have a Christian athletic group with a coach as the adult sponsor?

If the club is for athletes only, then the appropriate sponsor should not be a coach. Easy way to keep coercion down. Actually the FCA's policy of limiting inclusion to lettermen/women makes it very easy to avoid coercion.

The fca has such a policy?

Also don't you think it's a bit unfair that a coach cannot sponsor a religious group but can sponsor a political one

(08-09-2016 09:46 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 09:40 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 09:36 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 09:34 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 08:06 PM)solohawks Wrote:  So students cannot have a religious student group at school in middle or high school?

Students can. But it shouldn't be run by coaches and it shouldn't be tied to the athletic program. The FCA pretty much does both.

So athletes cannot have a Christian athletic group with a coach as the adult sponsor?

If the club is for athletes only, then the appropriate sponsor should not be a coach. Easy way to keep coercion down. Actually the FCA's policy of limiting inclusion to lettermen/women makes it very easy to avoid coercion.

The fca has such a policy?

Also don't you think it's a bit unfair that a coach cannot sponsor a religious group but can sponsor a political one

I believe the FCA has that policy. I think the a central tenet would be that if it is a political or religious group, that extreme care should be used to ensure that it is really being driven by the students.

For athleticly geared groups, the sponsor should NOT be a coach. Actually the coach shouldn't be involved at all with it. The dean of the school shouldn't be a sponsor of a political group either.

The only exception would be if no other person is willing to sponsor the group. At many schools, finding an evangelical staff member or non-athletic teacher would not present a problem.

Under no circumstances should the group be promoted during team activities.

But that's kind of the FCA's MO. Get the coach to sponsor the group and then cram it down all the athletes throats. Blur the line between team activities and FCA activities. Invite players to church services, etc.

The position of coach at a public school should NEVER be used as an opportunity to evangelize.

He's going to lose. The law is very clear on this. As a former coach, we were repeatedly warned about this.

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Question: Were schools better or worse than now... when prayer was in them?

(08-09-2016 11:14 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 09:46 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 09:40 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 09:36 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 09:34 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Students can. But it shouldn't be run by coaches and it shouldn't be tied to the athletic program. The FCA pretty much does both.

So athletes cannot have a Christian athletic group with a coach as the adult sponsor?

If the club is for athletes only, then the appropriate sponsor should not be a coach. Easy way to keep coercion down. Actually the FCA's policy of limiting inclusion to lettermen/women makes it very easy to avoid coercion.

The fca has such a policy?

Also don't you think it's a bit unfair that a coach cannot sponsor a religious group but can sponsor a political one

I believe the FCA has that policy. I think the a central tenet would be that if it is a political or religious group, that extreme care should be used to ensure that it is really being driven by the students.

For athleticly geared groups, the sponsor should NOT be a coach. Actually the coach shouldn't be involved at all with it. The dean of the school shouldn't be a sponsor of a political group either.

The only exception would be if no other person is willing to sponsor the group. At many schools, finding an evangelical staff member or non-athletic teacher would not present a problem.

Under no circumstances should the group be promoted during team activities.

But that's kind of the FCA's MO. Get the coach to sponsor the group and then cram it down all the athletes throats. Blur the line between team activities and FCA activities. Invite players to church services, etc.

The position of coach at a public school should NEVER be used as an opportunity to evangelize.

Team activities is kind of a broad term. Is hanging out in the locker room after practice a team activity? Are students not allowed to talk about the group during practice? Slippery slope

(08-09-2016 01:27 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 01:12 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 01:06 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 01:03 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 01:01 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I'm sure there are non-FCA affiliated coaches at that school. LOL.

I am sure you can provide concrete evidence that all coaches at that school are FCA affiliated...

Dude, read the article. http://highschoolsports.al.com/news/arti...-football/

I did, where does it say that every coach in Kennedy's school is FCA affiliated?

You miss the point.

I've never met a non-FCA affiliated assistant or head football coach in high school in Alabama. Nary a one.

Basically, my starting point is that if the head guy is FCA, then I'll bet you that every single person in his reporting group is too.

As someone who played 2 sports in Alabama's largest classification I can say that I was never invited to a FCA meeting by a single coach and it was never mentioned to me once. Both my baseball and wrestling coaches were assistant football coaches as well.

(08-09-2016 09:34 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 08:06 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 07:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 07:55 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  So where is the appropriate environment to ask somebody to join FCA?

Sent from my VS980 4G using CSNbbs mobile app

At their church.

So students cannot have a religious student group at school in middle or high school?

Students can. But it shouldn't be run by coaches and it shouldn't be tied to the athletic program. The FCA pretty much does both.

Only it isn't. Coaches are there in a supervisory role. If you really understood FCA you would know that the students initiate lead the activities. Furthermore, this is a student group made up at athletes. It is, by definition tied to athletics only is as much as it's members are athletes. There is no sponsorship by a schools athletic department.