(05-09-2016 04:30 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 04:27 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  The State is the entity that has residual sovereignty and is the constituent part of the union. So its not unusual for a State to reserve powers to itself and not grant them to cities/counties

I personally think this should be left to the local jurisdiction....but its not some unusual tactic. States restrict local governments all the time.

The City of Charlotte overstepped its power when it enacted its law. The legislature had every right to slap them on the wrist. The SJWs in Charlotte tried to fix a problem where there was not one. No one gave a good GD about this issue but them.

We had a similar state/city confrontation here. Our hyper-hippie commune tourist town passed a measure and the State jumped in to try to quell it.

Now personally, I don't have a problem with Weirdville passing its own laws and living as they please as long as they also don't try to use the State to try to overrule the voters of my town and make me live how they please too.

That isn't usually the case though.

(05-09-2016 04:40 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 04:39 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 04:30 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 04:27 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  The State is the entity that has residual sovereignty and is the constituent part of the union. So its not unusual for a State to reserve powers to itself and not grant them to cities/counties

I personally think this should be left to the local jurisdiction....but its not some unusual tactic. States restrict local governments all the time.

The City of Charlotte overstepped its power when it enacted its law. The legislature had every right to slap them on the wrist. The SJWs in Charlotte tried to fix a problem where there was not one. No one gave a good GD about this issue but them.

No, they just did something that white Republicans didn't want. That's apparently 'overstepping their power'. In Michigan its the same..

BS Tom. This has been gone over ad nauseam. The city over reached their power.

Its a reach. Its certainly a novel idea that no city in North Carolina can challenge anything that white conservatives don't want. But you're free to opine about it.

(05-09-2016 04:47 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 04:40 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 04:39 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 04:30 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 04:27 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  The State is the entity that has residual sovereignty and is the constituent part of the union. So its not unusual for a State to reserve powers to itself and not grant them to cities/counties

I personally think this should be left to the local jurisdiction....but its not some unusual tactic. States restrict local governments all the time.

The City of Charlotte overstepped its power when it enacted its law. The legislature had every right to slap them on the wrist. The SJWs in Charlotte tried to fix a problem where there was not one. No one gave a good GD about this issue but them.

No, they just did something that white Republicans didn't want. That's apparently 'overstepping their power'. In Michigan its the same..

BS Tom. This has been gone over ad nauseam. The city over reached their power.

Its a reach. Its certainly a novel idea that no city in North Carolina can challenge anything that white conservatives don't want. But you're free to opine about it.

It ain't like progressives have never used the power of the State to force their moral and social views on others who disagree.

C'mon man.

(05-09-2016 04:51 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 04:47 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 04:40 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 04:39 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 04:30 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  The City of Charlotte overstepped its power when it enacted its law. The legislature had every right to slap them on the wrist. The SJWs in Charlotte tried to fix a problem where there was not one. No one gave a good GD about this issue but them.

No, they just did something that white Republicans didn't want. That's apparently 'overstepping their power'. In Michigan its the same..

BS Tom. This has been gone over ad nauseam. The city over reached their power.

Its a reach. Its certainly a novel idea that no city in North Carolina can challenge anything that white conservatives don't want. But you're free to opine about it.

It ain't like progressives have never used the power of the State to force their moral and social views on others who disagree.

C'mon man.

This is pretty new. Basically, cities have traditionally (EVEN IN NC) been able to supplement state laws so long as they don't cancel out the state law. This has changed once the GOP took over in some states in off year elections. In Michigan, it appears to be de facto illegal for any Black Democrat to hold any power in any municipal context if they are voted for by Black people. In North Carolina, the legislature has decided to attempt to remove all powers of any city to ever "talk back' to white straight cisgendered males.

This is a new tactic, using a newly discovered theory, by a gerrymandered GOP legislature with a percentage of representation far in excess of its percentage of votes. They passed a bill to ALLOW and AFFIRM firing of LGBT persons by private businesses and taxpayer funded entities based upon zero debate, hearings or input.

And now, North Carolina will pay a stiff price for their legislature's use of these 'novel' theories and its use of legislative gay bashing. They're going to lose the Governor's mansion. I think Burr loses his Senate seat. And Hillary is going to win NC in the fall.

(05-09-2016 02:00 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 01:56 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 01:53 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 01:18 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 01:10 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Thanks
It's not as clear cut as you imply it to be.

Like I mentioned in my previous post, Title IX doesn't mention sexual identity at all. This courts ruling will eventually find its way to the SC. To me, this is a separate issue and has nothing to do with Title IX. We will have to wait and see.

I don't think were going to be doing much waiting. Besides, the NC legislature passed this mess in one day with virtually no debate. So its not like waiting is going to need to happen. Just cut off the funding. Besides, Berger would probably pass a law prohibiting Trans people from entering the state, he's such a hateful bigot. There's no point of waiting on the NC legislature. They won't act. Just yank the funding.

Saw McCrory's press conference (well it was billed as a press conference, but he didn't allow any questions). He now wants time. But he gave the LGBT people no time when the legislature acted. He claimed that this wasn't his doing. It was Bergers'. But it was still his decision to put NC in this position. He didn't mention the fact that it made it legal to fire people for being Gay at all. And didn't call on the legislature to remedy that fact. He didn't mandate a non-humiliating option for Trans persons be enacted before any bathroom rules go into effect (probably because the cost of such a plan would be around 50 million bucks and take years). There's been no advocacy of opening up the law to account for post-op Trans Males who cannot get their birth certificates changed. He then appeared to call for the end of all employment protections (because his call to have the GOP House of Reps come up with a global non-discrimination policy would mean the end of any employment protections for anyone not white, a gun owner, a motorcycle rider, Christian, and straight).

(05-09-2016 01:18 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Just cut off the funding.

On what basis? If funding is tied to Title IX and it hasn't been clearly established that Title IX was violated, then there is no precedent to 'yank the funding' as you put it.

(05-09-2016 01:18 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  He didn't mention the fact that it made it legal to fire people for being Gay at all.

For the billionth time, this law didn't suddenly make it legal to fire gay people overnight. Sexual orientation was not a protected class before HB2, however, McCrory's executive action on HB2 expands the state's employment policy to cover sexual orientation and gender identity for state employees. One would think this would please you.

Enacting some temporary and toothless 'protections' for 12 people at the expense of 100,000 people in Charlotte isn't a win.

Anyone else see the irony in this statement?

Like a big, wide, red asss staring me in the face.

Holy schnikey... hahaha

Just saw Obama's Attorney General say that this is about treating all Americans with dignity and respect. So perverts that want to go into the little girls bathroom need to be treated with dignity and respect? The libs have f'd up this country so bad, not sure it can be made right again.

(05-09-2016 03:34 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 03:21 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 03:14 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 03:06 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 02:59 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  This is not just about restrooms, but about employment non-discrimination for cisgendered Gay men and Lesbians.

Update: DOJ has asked a Federal Judge to block HB 2. Waiting to see if they're doing anything else. My guess is that they'll get an emergency injunction stopping enforcement.

Boy, the anti-Gays really are gonna miss Scalia. 4-4 tie goes to the Circuit.

Boy those goal posts keep on moving. Mind posting evidence of all those gays and lesbians that have been fired or denied service?

Not moving the goalposts. That vitally important Charlotte employment protections have been noted since HB 2 was passed. You might have forgotten it, but we never did.

If you feel that the employment discrimination issue isn't important, then why did the NC legislature remove those protections? Because they obviously want to discriminate against LGBT persons in private employment or in employment subsidized by taxpayer dollars.

The fact that the legislature removed employment non-discrimination protections for LGBT persons is pretty compelling evidence that HB 2 was motivated purely by anti-LGBT animus.

Great speech by Loretta Lynch by the way.

Quote the section of HB2 that removes state-wide protections. Want a hint? THERE ISN"T ONE. Local ordinances were in violation of the state constitution. If you want to pick that fight, separate it from the bathroom issue. Sexual orientation was not a protected class in NC before HB2 was passed. The only thing the bill 'removed' was suing in state court, which McCrory included in his executive action and want the GA to restore.

HB 2 removed employment protections for LGBT persons in North Carolina's largest city.

It was the most important part of the bill.

The GOP in NC is reading something new into the law about cities not having any powers at all. Had the anti-Gay GOP legislature not specifically written legislation removing those protections, it would be illegal for people to be fired simply because they are LGBT.

Wait, I thought the most important part of this insanely trivial entire charade was potty preferences for dudes that want to wear dresses?

Which is it? And if you're in favor of Cities and Towns just making up their own laws as they see fit, you won't object if other municipalities enact laws you disagree with, correct?

Or, is it really all about the special rights we all know it's about?

(05-09-2016 05:14 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  Just saw Obama's Attorney General say that this is about treating all Americans with dignity and respect. So perverts that want to go into the little girls bathroom need to be treated with dignity and respect? The libs have f'd up this country so bad, not sure it can be made right again.

(sneering sarcasm)
Nah, no animus towards transgendered persons in Mississippi. None at all. I can't imagine why anyone would think that Mississippi's SB 1523 was just motivated by hatred of LGBT persons.

(end sarcasm)

Remember when Houston tried to do the same and it backfired on the Mayor? That should be a lesson...

(05-09-2016 05:31 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  Remember when Houston tried to do the same and it backfired on the Mayor? That should be a lesson...

We weren't ready. We had bad leaders running the HERO campaign. Mayor Parker had little to do with the law.

We've learned. How to WIN. And we will win in North Carolina and Mississippi very shortly. Texas will happen shortly too.

(05-09-2016 04:59 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 04:51 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 04:47 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 04:40 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 04:39 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  No, they just did something that white Republicans didn't want. That's apparently 'overstepping their power'. In Michigan its the same..

BS Tom. This has been gone over ad nauseam. The city over reached their power.

Its a reach. Its certainly a novel idea that no city in North Carolina can challenge anything that white conservatives don't want. But you're free to opine about it.

It ain't like progressives have never used the power of the State to force their moral and social views on others who disagree.

C'mon man.

This is pretty new. Basically, cities have traditionally (EVEN IN NC) been able to supplement state laws so long as they don't cancel out the state law. This has changed once the GOP took over in some states in off year elections. In Michigan, it appears to be de facto illegal for any Black Democrat to hold any power in any municipal context if they are voted for by Black people. In North Carolina, the legislature has decided to attempt to remove all powers of any city to ever "talk back' to white straight cisgendered males.

This is a new tactic, using a newly discovered theory, by a gerrymandered GOP legislature with a percentage of representation far in excess of its percentage of votes. They passed a bill to ALLOW and AFFIRM firing of LGBT persons by private businesses and taxpayer funded entities based upon zero debate, hearings or input.

And now, North Carolina will pay a stiff price for their legislature's use of these 'novel' theories and its use of legislative gay bashing. They're going to lose the Governor's mansion. I think Burr loses his Senate seat. And Hillary is going to win NC in the fall.

Well, I'm not steeped in the history of progressive legislation at the State level in North Carolina so I won't pretend. But I do know in general that progressives do prefer to lean more on the judicial activism to impose their social and moral philosophies...and maybe conservatives rely more on the legislative branch. But it still is a mutual effort to use the power of the State to centralize authority and override local objection to things.

You want to make one not like the other...but they pretty much are depending on who is being told what they have to choke down.

Now personally I do not care for prostitution and gambling but...I don't live in Nevada so I don't try to get Federal laws imposed to stop them. They want it....I don't live there....no skin off my nose. I feel pretty much the same about preferring local school boards and...to be consistent....local bathroom police. If Charlotte wants drag queens in the girls bathroom....and Wilmington wants drag queens in the boys bathroom...well....sounds like a local fight to me.

(05-09-2016 05:43 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 04:59 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 04:51 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 04:47 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 04:40 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  BS Tom. This has been gone over ad nauseam. The city over reached their power.

Its a reach. Its certainly a novel idea that no city in North Carolina can challenge anything that white conservatives don't want. But you're free to opine about it.

It ain't like progressives have never used the power of the State to force their moral and social views on others who disagree.

C'mon man.

This is pretty new. Basically, cities have traditionally (EVEN IN NC) been able to supplement state laws so long as they don't cancel out the state law. This has changed once the GOP took over in some states in off year elections. In Michigan, it appears to be de facto illegal for any Black Democrat to hold any power in any municipal context if they are voted for by Black people. In North Carolina, the legislature has decided to attempt to remove all powers of any city to ever "talk back' to white straight cisgendered males.

This is a new tactic, using a newly discovered theory, by a gerrymandered GOP legislature with a percentage of representation far in excess of its percentage of votes. They passed a bill to ALLOW and AFFIRM firing of LGBT persons by private businesses and taxpayer funded entities based upon zero debate, hearings or input.

And now, North Carolina will pay a stiff price for their legislature's use of these 'novel' theories and its use of legislative gay bashing. They're going to lose the Governor's mansion. I think Burr loses his Senate seat. And Hillary is going to win NC in the fall.

Well, I'm not steeped in the history of progressive legislation at the State level in North Carolina so I won't pretend. But I do know in general that progressives do prefer to lean more on the judicial activism to impose their social and moral philosophies...and maybe conservatives rely more on the legislative branch. But it still is a mutual effort to use the power of the State to centralize authority and override local objection to things.

You want to make one not like the other...but they pretty much are depending on who is being told what they have to choke down.

Now personally I do not care for prostitution and gambling but...I don't live in Nevada so I don't try to get Federal laws imposed to stop them. They want it....I don't live there....no skin off my nose. I feel pretty much the same about preferring local school boards and...to be consistent....local bathroom police. If Charlotte wants drag queens in the girls bathroom....and Wilmington wants drag queens in the boys bathroom...well....sounds like a local fight to me.

Why are you talking about Drag Queens? They aren't Transgendered. Nor are Drag Queens demanding access to any particular restroom. Drag Queens are usually males who dress as women occasionally as performance art. They aren't Trans nor do they have gender identity issues. They are cisgendered males that put on a costume. Hope this helps

(05-09-2016 05:50 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 05:43 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 04:59 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 04:51 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 04:47 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Its a reach. Its certainly a novel idea that no city in North Carolina can challenge anything that white conservatives don't want. But you're free to opine about it.

It ain't like progressives have never used the power of the State to force their moral and social views on others who disagree.

C'mon man.

This is pretty new. Basically, cities have traditionally (EVEN IN NC) been able to supplement state laws so long as they don't cancel out the state law. This has changed once the GOP took over in some states in off year elections. In Michigan, it appears to be de facto illegal for any Black Democrat to hold any power in any municipal context if they are voted for by Black people. In North Carolina, the legislature has decided to attempt to remove all powers of any city to ever "talk back' to white straight cisgendered males.

This is a new tactic, using a newly discovered theory, by a gerrymandered GOP legislature with a percentage of representation far in excess of its percentage of votes. They passed a bill to ALLOW and AFFIRM firing of LGBT persons by private businesses and taxpayer funded entities based upon zero debate, hearings or input.

And now, North Carolina will pay a stiff price for their legislature's use of these 'novel' theories and its use of legislative gay bashing. They're going to lose the Governor's mansion. I think Burr loses his Senate seat. And Hillary is going to win NC in the fall.

Well, I'm not steeped in the history of progressive legislation at the State level in North Carolina so I won't pretend. But I do know in general that progressives do prefer to lean more on the judicial activism to impose their social and moral philosophies...and maybe conservatives rely more on the legislative branch. But it still is a mutual effort to use the power of the State to centralize authority and override local objection to things.

You want to make one not like the other...but they pretty much are depending on who is being told what they have to choke down.

Now personally I do not care for prostitution and gambling but...I don't live in Nevada so I don't try to get Federal laws imposed to stop them. They want it....I don't live there....no skin off my nose. I feel pretty much the same about preferring local school boards and...to be consistent....local bathroom police. If Charlotte wants drag queens in the girls bathroom....and Wilmington wants drag queens in the boys bathroom...well....sounds like a local fight to me.

Why are you talking about Drag Queens? They aren't Transgendered. Nor are Drag Queens demanding access to any particular restroom. Drag Queens are usually males who dress as women occasionally as performance art. They aren't Trans nor do they have gender identity issues. They are cisgendered males that put on a costume. Hope this helps

Nothing to do with my point. But thanks for the info.

(05-09-2016 05:42 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 05:31 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  Remember when Houston tried to do the same and it backfired on the Mayor? That should be a lesson...

We weren't ready. We had bad leaders running the HERO campaign. Mayor Parker had little to do with the law.

We've learned. How to WIN. And we will win in North Carolina and Mississippi very shortly. Texas will happen shortly too.

There is nothing to win. You already have the same rights as everyone else and the law protects you just like everyone else. What you seek is "special" treatment. It is plain as the nose on your face Tom. Just a bunch of selfish children needing attention.

As the lifelong resident of a state that seems to draw perverse pleasure in getting its ass handed to it by the federal courts, let me just say, welcome to the club, NC.

(05-09-2016 06:36 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 05:42 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 05:31 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  Remember when Houston tried to do the same and it backfired on the Mayor? That should be a lesson...

We weren't ready. We had bad leaders running the HERO campaign. Mayor Parker had little to do with the law.

We've learned. How to WIN. And we will win in North Carolina and Mississippi very shortly. Texas will happen shortly too.

There is nothing to win. You already have the same rights as everyone else and the law protects you just like everyone else. What you seek is "special" treatment. It is plain as the nose on your face Tom. Just a bunch of selfish children needing attention.

I am banned from executive employment at about a third of the taxpayer supported hospitals (Ascension, St Josephs, Cristus, etc.), many taxpayer subsidized schools etc., and many state supported social work groups simply because I am Gay. Discrimination exists, and it is far wider reaching than you think.

All we demand is the same protections that our persecutors have. If it is illegal for a person to fire someone for being a member of an anti-Gay religious group, then it should be illegal for a Gay or Trans person to be fired simply because they are Gay and sexually active and/or Trans.

If you think that adding Gays to existing non-discrimination ordinances covering religious persons is no big deal. Then why are y'all so opposed to adding us to those protections.

(05-09-2016 05:22 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 05:14 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  Just saw Obama's Attorney General say that this is about treating all Americans with dignity and respect. So perverts that want to go into the little girls bathroom need to be treated with dignity and respect? The libs have f'd up this country so bad, not sure it can be made right again.

(sneering sarcasm)
Nah, no animus towards transgendered persons in Mississippi. None at all. I can't imagine why anyone would think that Mississippi's SB 1523 was just motivated by hatred of LGBT persons.

(end sarcasm)

Yea, Mississippi is just a terrible place because we want women to use the women's bathroom and men to use the men's bathroom. Damn, how much more hateful could we be.

(05-09-2016 04:39 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 04:30 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 04:27 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  The State is the entity that has residual sovereignty and is the constituent part of the union. So its not unusual for a State to reserve powers to itself and not grant them to cities/counties

I personally think this should be left to the local jurisdiction....but its not some unusual tactic. States restrict local governments all the time.

The City of Charlotte overstepped its power when it enacted its law. The legislature had every right to slap them on the wrist. The SJWs in Charlotte tried to fix a problem where there was not one. No one gave a good GD about this issue but them.

No, they just did something that white Republicans didn't want. That's apparently 'overstepping their power'. In Michigan its the same..

Why are you such a racist, sexist, heterophobe? Your kind of intolerance is only permitted in the USA. You should be thankful to be living here.

(05-09-2016 10:38 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  McCrory has proven he was worth my vote dozens of times over. I could not be more proud of the job he's done, and that he's standing up to the insanely corrupt DOJ and our lame duck President. Even if it costs him re-election (which I'm not convinced it will) it will have been worth it. In time, McCrory will be looked back on as one of the best Governor's NC has ever had.

Now that is funny right there! McCrory has been in over his head since he arrived in Raleigh. I can not believe even the most loyal McCrory supporter could say that with a straight face!

(05-09-2016 11:59 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 11:49 AM)fsquid Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 11:42 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 10:56 AM)fsquid Wrote:  So the state has no money for teacher raises, but money for this?

False, McCrory has pitched a 5% increase in salary and an average 3.5% bonus this year.

Only a decade late.

Well that would put the responsibility back on the Demos' plates then. They had run the show in NC for nearly a century.

The GOP has run the state since 2011. They own anything that has happened for the last six years, including the huge cuts in education funding. We are 47th in the nation in education spending, 42nd in teacher pay and eliminated due process for those that didn't have it by 2013, ended master's pay for those that didn't already have it, eliminated the teaching fellows program, eliminated huge numbers of teacher assistant positions and tried to eliminate the driver's Ed program before parent backlash caused them to retreat. The list goes on and on. The are running k-12 schools into the ground!