Agreed. The PAC-12 is strong, but is without a true top level team.

(11-17-2015 03:03 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 01:22 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 01:00 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 12:18 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 10:20 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  Amazing no team more than 10 miles west of I-35 has less than 2 losses with a month to play.

I'd be curious to know how that compares to previous seasons at the same point in the season.

We might only be talking about a range of 0 - 3 teams.

3 in 2014, 3 in 2013, FWIW. Usually there is 2 or so PAC-12 teams and 1 MWC team with 1 or fewer losses at this point. To have none in either is unusual.

It's a down year for the PAC ...

But it's not. Both Massey Composite and Sagarin say the PAC is the 3rd best conference, ahead of the B1G and ACC.

Playoffs are about teams, not conferences. A conference can be abjectly bad (e.g., the ACC) and yet have a playoff worthy team. Conversely, a conference can be far better (the PAC) and yet cannibalize itself and not be in the playoff running.

Northwestern 16
Top PAC 12 team 6

That's all you need to know about the PAC 12 this year

(11-17-2015 03:45 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 03:03 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 01:22 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 01:00 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 12:18 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  I'd be curious to know how that compares to previous seasons at the same point in the season.

We might only be talking about a range of 0 - 3 teams.

3 in 2014, 3 in 2013, FWIW. Usually there is 2 or so PAC-12 teams and 1 MWC team with 1 or fewer losses at this point. To have none in either is unusual.

It's a down year for the PAC ...

But it's not. Both Massey Composite and Sagarin say the PAC is the 3rd best conference, ahead of the B1G and ACC.

Playoffs are about teams, not conferences. A conference can be abjectly bad (e.g., the ACC) and yet have a playoff worthy team. Conversely, a conference can be far better (the PAC) and yet cannibalize itself and not be in the playoff running.

Northwestern 16
Top PAC 12 team 6

That's all you need to know about the PAC 12 this year

But it's not. Plenty of other games have been played.

(11-17-2015 04:30 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 03:45 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  Northwestern 16
Top PAC 12 team 6

That's all you need to know about the PAC 12 this year

But it's not. Plenty of other games have been played.

FCS Portland State 24
PAC 12 North #T2 17

(11-17-2015 04:59 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 04:30 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 03:45 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  Northwestern 16
Top PAC 12 team 6

That's all you need to know about the PAC 12 this year

But it's not. Plenty of other games have been played.

FCS Portland State 24
PAC 12 North #T2 17

SEC West #T5 38
PAC South #4 17

(11-17-2015 05:01 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 04:59 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 04:30 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 03:45 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  Northwestern 16
Top PAC 12 team 6

That's all you need to know about the PAC 12 this year

But it's not. Plenty of other games have been played.

FCS Portland State 24
PAC 12 North #T2 17

SEC West #T5 38
PAC South #4 17

(2-9) MWC West #6 28
Colorado 20

(11-17-2015 05:02 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 05:01 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 04:59 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 04:30 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 03:45 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  Northwestern 16
Top PAC 12 team 6

That's all you need to know about the PAC 12 this year

But it's not. Plenty of other games have been played.

FCS Portland State 24
PAC 12 North #T2 17

SEC West #T5 38
PAC South #4 17

(2-9) MWC West #6 28
Colorado 20

... says the fan whose own team lost last week to a team that is 1-5 in the SEC and headed straight for 1-7.

(11-17-2015 03:03 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 01:22 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 01:00 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 12:18 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 10:20 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  Amazing no team more than 10 miles west of I-35 has less than 2 losses with a month to play.

I'd be curious to know how that compares to previous seasons at the same point in the season.

We might only be talking about a range of 0 - 3 teams.

3 in 2014, 3 in 2013, FWIW. Usually there is 2 or so PAC-12 teams and 1 MWC team with 1 or fewer losses at this point. To have none in either is unusual.

It's a down year for the PAC ...

But it's not. Both Massey Composite and Sagarin say the PAC is the 3rd best conference, ahead of the B1G and ACC.

Playoffs are about teams, not conferences. A conference can be abjectly bad (e.g., the ACC) and yet have a playoff worthy team. Conversely, a conference can be far better (the PAC) and yet cannibalize itself and not be in the playoff running.

i) who gives a rat turd what some dumba__ computer says??

ii) the thread is about the playoff (ie, "PAC 12 is done [from the playoff]"). So the comment about being down was in regards to having playoff contending teams.

(11-17-2015 05:27 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 03:03 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 01:22 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 01:00 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 12:18 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  I'd be curious to know how that compares to previous seasons at the same point in the season.

We might only be talking about a range of 0 - 3 teams.

3 in 2014, 3 in 2013, FWIW. Usually there is 2 or so PAC-12 teams and 1 MWC team with 1 or fewer losses at this point. To have none in either is unusual.

It's a down year for the PAC ...

But it's not. Both Massey Composite and Sagarin say the PAC is the 3rd best conference, ahead of the B1G and ACC.

Playoffs are about teams, not conferences. A conference can be abjectly bad (e.g., the ACC) and yet have a playoff worthy team. Conversely, a conference can be far better (the PAC) and yet cannibalize itself and not be in the playoff running.

i) who gives a rat turd what some dumba__ computer says??

ii) the thread is about the playoff (ie, "PAC 12 is done [from the playoff]"). So the comment about being down was in regards to having playoff contending teams.

When you said it was a down year for the PAC, you screwed up. Embrace that fact for a moment, learn from it, then move forward a better man for it

(11-17-2015 06:08 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 05:27 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 03:03 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 01:22 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 01:00 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  3 in 2014, 3 in 2013, FWIW. Usually there is 2 or so PAC-12 teams and 1 MWC team with 1 or fewer losses at this point. To have none in either is unusual.

It's a down year for the PAC ...

But it's not. Both Massey Composite and Sagarin say the PAC is the 3rd best conference, ahead of the B1G and ACC.

Playoffs are about teams, not conferences. A conference can be abjectly bad (e.g., the ACC) and yet have a playoff worthy team. Conversely, a conference can be far better (the PAC) and yet cannibalize itself and not be in the playoff running.

i) who gives a rat turd what some dumba__ computer says??

ii) the thread is about the playoff (ie, "PAC 12 is done [from the playoff]"). So the comment about being down was in regards to having playoff contending teams.

When you said it was a down year for the PAC, you screwed up. Embrace that fact for a moment, learn from it, then move forward a better man for it

I was not incorrect in the slightest.

You wrongly assumed I made a mistake, based on your own misunderstanding and rushing to conclusion.

(11-17-2015 05:13 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 05:02 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 05:01 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 04:59 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 04:30 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  But it's not. Plenty of other games have been played.

FCS Portland State 24
PAC 12 North #T2 17

SEC West #T5 38
PAC South #4 17

(2-9) MWC West #6 28
Colorado 20

... says the fan whose own team lost last week to a team that is 1-5 in the SEC and headed straight for 1-7.

Who almost beat UCLA in Pasadena. Thank you for helping me make my point!

(11-17-2015 06:35 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 05:13 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 05:02 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 05:01 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 04:59 PM)YNot Wrote:  FCS Portland State 24
PAC 12 North #T2 17

SEC West #T5 38
PAC South #4 17

(2-9) MWC West #6 28
Colorado 20

... says the fan whose own team lost last week to a team that is 1-5 in the SEC and headed straight for 1-7.

Who almost beat UCLA in Pasadena. Thank you for helping me make my point!

Maybe in some parallel universe you get wins for "almost", but in this universe, almost gets you .

(11-17-2015 06:43 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 06:35 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 05:13 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 05:02 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 05:01 PM)YNot Wrote:  SEC West #T5 38
PAC South #4 17

(2-9) MWC West #6 28
Colorado 20

... says the fan whose own team lost last week to a team that is 1-5 in the SEC and headed straight for 1-7.

Who almost beat UCLA in Pasadena. Thank you for helping me make my point!

Maybe in some parallel universe you get wins for "almost", but in this universe, almost gets you .

You are correct about BYU. But, you're bringing BYU into the discussion actually is extremely relevant to the PAC 12 discussion. UCLA's 1-point win over BYU at home is probably the PAC 12's second best OOC win on the season (besides Utah's win over Michigan).

Now, look at your post about BYU's loss last weekend to Missouri.

Now let that sink in.

Western football is really down this year. MWC is terrible, Pac has slipped significantly from the past few years, and BYU just let the worst offense in college football convert 13 third downs. Terrible football all around.


The one saving grace on Western football is New Mexico State and Idaho are not winless.

As far as the PAC 12 being done, LSU made the BCS championship game several years back with two losses, after a crazy final couple of weeks. That is with only two possible teams. So I don't know if any power conference team with 1 or 2 losses and still alive for their conference championship is truly "done."

As a refresher, in 2007 this is what the rankings looked like in Week 12, after most teams had played 10 games:

2007 Week 12 BCS
BCS Standings
RK Team Rec Trend

1 LSU 9-1 1
2 Oregon 8-1 1
3 Kansas 10-0 1
4 Oklahoma 9-1 1
5 Missouri 9-1 1
6 West Virginia 8-1 1
7 Ohio State 10-1 6
8 Arizona State 9-1 1
9 Georgia 8-2 1
10 Virginia Tech 8-2 1
11 USC 8-2 6
12 Florida 7-3 3
13 Texas 9-2 1
14 Virginia 9-2 5


this is how they finished

2007 Final BCS
BCS Standings
RK Team Rec Trend


1 Ohio State 11-1 2
2 LSU 11-2 5
3 Virginia Tech 11-2 3
4 Oklahoma 11-2 5
5 Georgia 10-2 1
6 Missouri 11-2 5
7 USC 10-2 1
8 Kansas 11-1 3
9 West Virginia 10-2 7
10 Hawaii 12-0 2
11 Arizona State 10-2 2
12 Florida 9-3 2
13 Illinois 9-3 2
14 Boston College 10-3 3

(11-18-2015 09:08 AM)HawkeyeCoug Wrote:  Western football is really down this year. MWC is terrible, Pac has slipped significantly from the past few years, and BYU just let the worst offense in college football convert 13 third downs. Terrible football all around.


The one saving grace on Western football is New Mexico State and Idaho are not winless.

There is not a dominate flashy team, but overall, it is very good football. They are beating up on each other.

(11-18-2015 05:25 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  There is not a dominate flashy team, but overall, it is very good football. They are beating up on each other.

Actually, I stick with my contention that the West is down in football this year, though I will use the Pac 12 to illustrate. For this purpose, I will count "Western Teams" as the Pac 12, MWC, and BYU. It is possible they are beating each other up, so I will eliminate all such games from consideration and only consider games the Pac 12 plays against non-Western teams. FCS teams don't count unless there is a loss. To remove bias, I will initially list only the ranks of the teams they have played, using the latest Massey composite (111 rankings)

First, wins (10):

14 Home
65 Home
67 Away
81 Home
89 Away
111 Home
112 Home
113 Home
117 Home
125 Home

Look at this - only a single win over a team currently in the top half of the rankings. Also, only two victories on the road. That is pretty bad. Normally, they would have games against good BYU and MWC teams to fill in the resume gaps, but if you reference earlier posts in this thread about BYU and the MWC, you will see we aren't doing so hot either. Teams in rank order are Mich, Ark St, TX, VA, Rutgers, Georgia St, Umass, Idaho, UTSA, UCF.

Now, let's look at the losses:

5 Away
11 Away
14 Away
28 Away
34 Away/Neutral
100+ (FCS) Home

Most of these losses are not bad - on the road to teams in the top third of college football. However, there is one really bad FCS loss, and that FCS team is rated 100+ depending on your overall rating, and has lost two FCS games. That bad loss likely makes up for several "good" losses, especially since it was at home. Teams were ND, Mich St, Mich, NW, A&M, and Port St (FCs).

So, to find a middle ground, take away the outliers - terrible loss, and pretty good win. You are left with only wins over average and bad teams, and only losses to good teams. For a conference that wants to be elite and qualify teams for playoffs, that simply doesn't cut it. You have to have wins over good teams, and the Pac 12 only has a single victory over a top-third team outside the west, and one more over a team inside the west (BYU). That is a pretty thin resume for an entire conference.

I would invite people to do this for other conferences as well. I've spent more time analyzing this than I should have.

(11-18-2015 09:08 AM)HawkeyeCoug Wrote:  Western football is really down this year. MWC is terrible, Pac has slipped significantly from the past few years, and BYU just let the worst offense in college football convert 13 third downs. Terrible football all around.


The one saving grace on Western football is New Mexico State and Idaho are not winless.

Bob Davie is having a hell of year at New Mexico, sitting at 6-4.

I think that this impressive showing should land him the Southern Cal gig with a seven year contract.......

(11-19-2015 11:07 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(11-18-2015 09:08 AM)HawkeyeCoug Wrote:  Western football is really down this year. MWC is terrible, Pac has slipped significantly from the past few years, and BYU just let the worst offense in college football convert 13 third downs. Terrible football all around.


The one saving grace on Western football is New Mexico State and Idaho are not winless.

Bob Davie is having a hell of year at New Mexico, sitting at 6-4.

I think that this impressive showing should land him the Southern Cal gig with a seven year contract.......

Are you guys still paying him too, or is that just Charlie?