(08-31-2015 09:44 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(08-31-2015 09:34 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-31-2015 06:47 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(08-31-2015 09:25 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  There is no "plan"

Now if an irrefutable opportunity presented itself, like the SEC getting a pair of NC/VA schools from the ACC or ND decides to join the ACC full time or @Austin wants to join the PAC etc THEN movement might happen but there will be no big secret backroom deal "plan" to make it happen all once

Actually there is. People don't want to believe that and that is ok but I have a different perspective on it. I also have been here watching the change happening. Concepts and ideas that people called me crazy for are now commonplace talking points.

That is part of the plan, dragging the slow to change traditionalists along.

The only aspects up for debate still are details but the general plan is known and understood. Everyone knows who is in the know because the money is just too great to pass up on.

There is no plan that the P5 - or a subset of the P5 - is working from. There is no collusion between the conferences. What I see is game theory involving rational actors who are working for their self interest only. The theories and ideas are post hoc rationalizations to explain what is happening - a "Realignment God" of the gaps belief.

OSU and UM mystique is on the rise; therefore, Delaney...

Your attempt to attach ridiculous notions to the concept does not make the concept ridiculous, it just makes you ridiculous. Your personal concept of a "Plan" is simply childish and "conspiratorial".

Marx turning Hegel on his head...LOL

(09-01-2015 06:38 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-31-2015 09:44 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(08-31-2015 09:34 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-31-2015 06:47 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(08-31-2015 09:25 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  There is no "plan"

Now if an irrefutable opportunity presented itself, like the SEC getting a pair of NC/VA schools from the ACC or ND decides to join the ACC full time or @Austin wants to join the PAC etc THEN movement might happen but there will be no big secret backroom deal "plan" to make it happen all once

Actually there is. People don't want to believe that and that is ok but I have a different perspective on it. I also have been here watching the change happening. Concepts and ideas that people called me crazy for are now commonplace talking points.

That is part of the plan, dragging the slow to change traditionalists along.

The only aspects up for debate still are details but the general plan is known and understood. Everyone knows who is in the know because the money is just too great to pass up on.

There is no plan that the P5 - or a subset of the P5 - is working from. There is no collusion between the conferences. What I see is game theory involving rational actors who are working for their self interest only. The theories and ideas are post hoc rationalizations to explain what is happening - a "Realignment God" of the gaps belief.

OSU and UM mystique is on the rise; therefore, Delaney...

Your attempt to attach ridiculous notions to the concept does not make the concept ridiculous, it just makes you ridiculous. Your personal concept of a "Plan" is simply childish and "conspiratorial".

Marx turning Hegel on his head...LOL

Adding more ridiculousness to ridiculousness does not make less ridiculousness.

(09-01-2015 06:31 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 05:43 AM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  

(08-31-2015 09:34 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-31-2015 06:47 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(08-31-2015 09:25 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  There is no "plan"

Now if an irrefutable opportunity presented itself, like the SEC getting a pair of NC/VA schools from the ACC or ND decides to join the ACC full time or @Austin wants to join the PAC etc THEN movement might happen but there will be no big secret backroom deal "plan" to make it happen all once

Actually there is. People don't want to believe that and that is ok but I have a different perspective on it. I also have been here watching the change happening. Concepts and ideas that people called me crazy for are now commonplace talking points.

That is part of the plan, dragging the slow to change traditionalists along.

The only aspects up for debate still are details but the general plan is known and understood. Everyone knows who is in the know because the money is just too great to pass up on.

There is no plan that the P5 - or a subset of the P5 - is working from. There is no collusion between the conferences. What I see is game theory involving rational actors who are working for their self interest only. The theories and ideas are post hoc rationalizations to explain what is happening - a "Realignment God" of the gaps belief.

OSU and UM mystique is on the rise; therefore, Delaney...

What if I told you that cooperation amongst conferences WAS in their best interest, and that the ends would justify the means?

OK. Did you know that American oil companies colluding with OPEC is in the best interest of the world oil industry, and arguably for other parts of the economy that interact with petroleum? Or that collusion among these entities makes it more feasible for green energy initiatives to become viable?

Won't happen though, because competition is needed for consumers to have access to cheaper energy. Also, collusion breeds a lack of trust amongst the colluding parties that ultimately results in the Prisoners Dilemma being observed. SEC does not trust B1G, PAC doesn't trust Big12, etc... There is no trust between these conferences. And if there were binding agreements among the conferences, then that would be illegal because of collusion.

Nice strawman. Bringing up corporate competition in an attempt to compare non profit Universities in a similar fashion? Ridiculous.

Universities cooperate more than they compete.

(09-01-2015 07:32 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 06:31 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 05:43 AM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  

(08-31-2015 09:34 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-31-2015 06:47 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Actually there is. People don't want to believe that and that is ok but I have a different perspective on it. I also have been here watching the change happening. Concepts and ideas that people called me crazy for are now commonplace talking points.

That is part of the plan, dragging the slow to change traditionalists along.

The only aspects up for debate still are details but the general plan is known and understood. Everyone knows who is in the know because the money is just too great to pass up on.

There is no plan that the P5 - or a subset of the P5 - is working from. There is no collusion between the conferences. What I see is game theory involving rational actors who are working for their self interest only. The theories and ideas are post hoc rationalizations to explain what is happening - a "Realignment God" of the gaps belief.

OSU and UM mystique is on the rise; therefore, Delaney...

What if I told you that cooperation amongst conferences WAS in their best interest, and that the ends would justify the means?

OK. Did you know that American oil companies colluding with OPEC is in the best interest of the world oil industry, and arguably for other parts of the economy that interact with petroleum? Or that collusion among these entities makes it more feasible for green energy initiatives to become viable?

Won't happen though, because competition is needed for consumers to have access to cheaper energy. Also, collusion breeds a lack of trust amongst the colluding parties that ultimately results in the Prisoners Dilemma being observed. SEC does not trust B1G, PAC doesn't trust Big12, etc... There is no trust between these conferences. And if there were binding agreements among the conferences, then that would be illegal because of collusion.

Nice strawman. Bringing up corporate competition in an attempt to compare non profit Universities in a similar fashion? Ridiculous.

Universities cooperate more than they compete.

Playing the non-profit card for college athletics... LOL. The athletic conferences are just like private enterprises. The SEC does not sacrifice for the greater good of the entire Div1A schools, for example.

Sure, universities cooperate and collaborate on projects for research dollars. But even here, the collaborative groups still compete with other collaborating groups so that there are winners and losers on the research dollar side. And if you seriously believe that universities are colluding together to divvy up the research fund pie, you're cracked.

You imply that non-profits do not compete, and because of the non-profit status they routinely collude. I know it's your schtick to play the contrarian plus build the conspiracy web of backroom deals, but I'm tired of playing the games on the realignment forum. It's been fun for awhile, and I sure as hell played the game to stir the pot like others - and I was pretty good at it - but I'm done with that stuff. I spend a lot more time in the spin room forum anymore. You should stop by when you get a chance.

Mathematically the only move that makes sense given the discussion of a new P4 is to go to 18 then invite 6 G5 teams to the SEC, B10, P12, and ACC. The B12 would be absorbed. The CFP becomes an 8 team playoff with 1 spot going to a G5 Champ/Highest ranked. 3 wild card.

BYU already counts as a P5 for scheduling purposes with the Future P4 conferences as does Notre Dame. So 5 or 6 G5 teams will get promoted eventually.

That will leave 5 remaining G5 leagues unless the B12 decides to backfill from the best of the American and MWC creating the 6th and strongest G6 League. Then the dominos fall and eventually the Sun Belt or CUSA have to limp along.

Then There will be 3 tiers:

P4-ACC, P12, SEC, B10

G6Class A-B12

G6 Class B-American, MWC, CUSA, MAC, Sun Belt

(09-01-2015 06:28 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-31-2015 09:40 PM)gassman Wrote:  The only thing that creates movement is more money in the till.

The only way to do that is increase revenue or decrease costs.

With new softness in ESPN subscriptions being reported and consumers cord cutting and demanding new "skinny" non sports bundles I honestly believe we have reached the peak of sports rights fees going up.

if that is the case most of the movement we see in the future is going to be among the G5 and is going to involve regionalization to lower costs.

This will be resisted at first by many in the G5 such as ECU, UCONN, Cinci, etc but eventually falling revenues will force reality upon the G5 and they will be forced to cut costs to survive.

You will see waves of regionalization as broadcasters start paying a "non P5" rate that is homogenized across conference boundaries.

During this regionalization wave you will see a few stronger FCS teams move up into the G5 along lines of similar size, markets and fan support.

But all movement will make sense in ways to reduce costs and hopefully build more close regional rivalries that can pack stadiums on a yearly basis.

App and Charlotte are the perfect example of this.

They are a couple of hours apart and would pack their stadiums for this game every two years. There is more money to be had in this type of game than flying football and all the Olympics to Texas.

There are probably lots of situations like this all over the country.

Mark it. It will happen.

The problem that you have with your statement is that P5 schools do value some of the G5 and FCS schools more than you think. Might be long history or something like that?

The service academy are valued by all the P5 schools. The long history and prestiged in those schools.
BYU is like the Notre Dame of the west. Not on a larger scale, but they are similar.
Cincinnati, Memphis, East Carolina, UCF, USF, SMU, Houston, Rice, Northern Illinois, Toledo, Ohio U. Arkansas State, Colorado State, Boise State, San Diego State, Wyoming, UNLV, Fresno State, Hawaii, UNR, UTEP, and rising of Georgia Southern, Appalachian State, North Dakota State, Eastern Washington and UTSA could reach the million viewership ratings mark soon.
As long as the top G5 schools get an average of more than a million tv ratings, there would be money be made right there.
That is why many G5 schools are being looked at for P5 spots.

The problem with schools like in the Big 12 is that many of their schools overlapped each other, and can't be telling of a long run of a viewer average until they add no markets. People would tune in to see a rematch between Oklahoma and Boise State if Boise State becomes a member of the Big 12. If both teams play the same way like they did in the Fiesta Bowl? People will tune in every year.
East Carolina is earning more than Duke and Wake Forest right now in ticket sales. So, East Carolina could do even better in a P5, and be number 3 college and University in the state of North Carolina in football. They could be the number 1 football team better than all 4 of the ACC schools right now.

Unless a new P5 member adds $ to the TV contracts they will not expand.

Yes ECU could be the number 1 team in NC easily. If they had the TV money and the exposure against better schools but that is NEVER going to happen.

They are locked out of the party just like the rest of the G5.

The only G5 that gets included is going to be if a P5 school willingly drops out due to ethical reasons or if the B12 needs to add more to get a championship game.

That's it.

(09-01-2015 07:46 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 07:32 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 06:31 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 05:43 AM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  

(08-31-2015 09:34 PM)miko33 Wrote:  There is no plan that the P5 - or a subset of the P5 - is working from. There is no collusion between the conferences. What I see is game theory involving rational actors who are working for their self interest only. The theories and ideas are post hoc rationalizations to explain what is happening - a "Realignment God" of the gaps belief.

OSU and UM mystique is on the rise; therefore, Delaney...

What if I told you that cooperation amongst conferences WAS in their best interest, and that the ends would justify the means?

OK. Did you know that American oil companies colluding with OPEC is in the best interest of the world oil industry, and arguably for other parts of the economy that interact with petroleum? Or that collusion among these entities makes it more feasible for green energy initiatives to become viable?

Won't happen though, because competition is needed for consumers to have access to cheaper energy. Also, collusion breeds a lack of trust amongst the colluding parties that ultimately results in the Prisoners Dilemma being observed. SEC does not trust B1G, PAC doesn't trust Big12, etc... There is no trust between these conferences. And if there were binding agreements among the conferences, then that would be illegal because of collusion.

Nice strawman. Bringing up corporate competition in an attempt to compare non profit Universities in a similar fashion? Ridiculous.

Universities cooperate more than they compete.

Playing the non-profit card for college athletics... LOL. The athletic conferences are just like private enterprises. The SEC does not sacrifice for the greater good of the entire Div1A schools, for example.

Sure, universities cooperate and collaborate on projects for research dollars. But even here, the collaborative groups still compete with other collaborating groups so that there are winners and losers on the research dollar side. And if you seriously believe that universities are colluding together to divvy up the research fund pie, you're cracked.

You imply that non-profits do not compete, and because of the non-profit status they routinely collude. I know it's your schtick to play the contrarian plus build the conspiracy web of backroom deals, but I'm tired of playing the games on the realignment forum. It's been fun for awhile, and I sure as hell played the game to stir the pot like others - and I was pretty good at it - but I'm done with that stuff. I spend a lot more time in the spin room forum anymore. You should stop by when you get a chance.

The only one playing the contrarian conspiracy garbage is you. A conspiracy includes a crime so for you to use that term just shows you are playing to the ignorant crowd or you are simply ignorant yourself, you choose.

I sometimes play games, I sometimes play it serious. Monetary interests that coincide makes cooperation very easy to do. All your dancing around is meant to subvert that very simple truth.

That is what "The Plan" is about. It is no conspiracy, it's simply a plan to increase the money coming in to these athletic departments because the amount of money going out is about to increase and they all want to be in the black instead of taking money from other departments of the University.

It's simple and all you are doing is trying to complicate the issue.

I do stop by the Spin Room from time to time. I usually look at a thread or two, laugh and then go about my business. Sharing my opinion on something with so little actual value, such as with conference realignment, is no big deal to me. Sharing my opinion on topics that matter much more and are closer to the heart for me? That's probably not going to happen. On occasion I share my actual opinion and come out from behind the He1nousone garb as I did recently but that isn't going to happen very often.

This isn't going to be about the SEC competing with the B1G, or PAC, or ACC...it's about the college game competing against other live sports and forms of entertainment. Die hard fans are going to follow regardless, so streamlining the model to the P4/Conference Champs model makes it easier for the layman to follow. THAT is where the growth is going to be for college sports. It doesn't hurt that by adopting that model, you're also giving something the vast majority of diehards want as well.

(09-01-2015 07:12 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  This isn't going to be about the SEC competing with the B1G, or PAC, or ACC...it's about the college game competing against other live sports and forms of entertainment. Die hard fans are going to follow regardless, so streamlining the model to the P4/Conference Champs model makes it easier for the layman to follow. THAT is where the growth is going to be for college sports. It doesn't hurt that by adopting that model, you're also giving something the vast majority of diehards want as well.

Just look at the post season scheduling issue coming up. New Year's Day 2017 falls on a Sunday. The Bowls don't want to take on the NFL that day but the CFP wants to. The bigger battle isn't within the NCAA. It is branching out now and challenging other entities. They want to build a product that doesn't have to bend a knee. That requires cooperation on a level never before seen within the NCAA.

To the doubters? They can keep on doubting as they have been continuously. They also have been continuously wrong when going against what I have been telling them.

(09-01-2015 07:16 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 07:12 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  This isn't going to be about the SEC competing with the B1G, or PAC, or ACC...it's about the college game competing against other live sports and forms of entertainment. Die hard fans are going to follow regardless, so streamlining the model to the P4/Conference Champs model makes it easier for the layman to follow. THAT is where the growth is going to be for college sports. It doesn't hurt that by adopting that model, you're also giving something the vast majority of diehards want as well.

Just look at the post season scheduling issue coming up. New Year's Day 2017 falls on a Sunday. The Bowls don't want to take on the NFL that day but the CFP wants to. The bigger battle isn't within the NCAA. It is branching out now and challenging other entities. They want to build a product that doesn't have to bend a knee. That requires cooperation on a level never before seen within the NCAA.

To the doubters? They can keep on doubting as they have been continuously. They also have been continuously wrong when going against what I have been telling them.

CFB will lose that game. No sport in the U.S. will be able to take on the NFL. If CFB tries to take the NFL on regularly, what you'll end up seeing is CFB losing it's national appeal. No one will choose NFL lite over the real deal - especially in New England, Mid Atlantic, Chicago, Green Bay.

(09-01-2015 09:41 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 07:16 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 07:12 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  This isn't going to be about the SEC competing with the B1G, or PAC, or ACC...it's about the college game competing against other live sports and forms of entertainment. Die hard fans are going to follow regardless, so streamlining the model to the P4/Conference Champs model makes it easier for the layman to follow. THAT is where the growth is going to be for college sports. It doesn't hurt that by adopting that model, you're also giving something the vast majority of diehards want as well.

Just look at the post season scheduling issue coming up. New Year's Day 2017 falls on a Sunday. The Bowls don't want to take on the NFL that day but the CFP wants to. The bigger battle isn't within the NCAA. It is branching out now and challenging other entities. They want to build a product that doesn't have to bend a knee. That requires cooperation on a level never before seen within the NCAA.

To the doubters? They can keep on doubting as they have been continuously. They also have been continuously wrong when going against what I have been telling them.

CFB will lose that game. No sport in the U.S. will be able to take on the NFL. If CFB tries to take the NFL on regularly, what you'll end up seeing is CFB losing it's national appeal. No one will choose NFL lite over the real deal - especially in New England, Mid Atlantic, Chicago, Green Bay.

You can say that all you want but that is the battle they are being sold by ESPN and Fox. As the NFL takes more and more of it's content to it's own Network, that is leaving ESPN and Fox on the outside looking in more than ever in regards to the NFL.

What they have on their side of the argument is the 18 rating that the CFP championship game received.

(09-01-2015 06:55 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 07:46 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 07:32 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 06:31 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 05:43 AM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  What if I told you that cooperation amongst conferences WAS in their best interest, and that the ends would justify the means?

OK. Did you know that American oil companies colluding with OPEC is in the best interest of the world oil industry, and arguably for other parts of the economy that interact with petroleum? Or that collusion among these entities makes it more feasible for green energy initiatives to become viable?

Won't happen though, because competition is needed for consumers to have access to cheaper energy. Also, collusion breeds a lack of trust amongst the colluding parties that ultimately results in the Prisoners Dilemma being observed. SEC does not trust B1G, PAC doesn't trust Big12, etc... There is no trust between these conferences. And if there were binding agreements among the conferences, then that would be illegal because of collusion.

Nice strawman. Bringing up corporate competition in an attempt to compare non profit Universities in a similar fashion? Ridiculous.

Universities cooperate more than they compete.

Playing the non-profit card for college athletics... LOL. The athletic conferences are just like private enterprises. The SEC does not sacrifice for the greater good of the entire Div1A schools, for example.

Sure, universities cooperate and collaborate on projects for research dollars. But even here, the collaborative groups still compete with other collaborating groups so that there are winners and losers on the research dollar side. And if you seriously believe that universities are colluding together to divvy up the research fund pie, you're cracked.

You imply that non-profits do not compete, and because of the non-profit status they routinely collude. I know it's your schtick to play the contrarian plus build the conspiracy web of backroom deals, but I'm tired of playing the games on the realignment forum. It's been fun for awhile, and I sure as hell played the game to stir the pot like others - and I was pretty good at it - but I'm done with that stuff. I spend a lot more time in the spin room forum anymore. You should stop by when you get a chance.

The only one playing the contrarian conspiracy garbage is you. A conspiracy includes a crime so for you to use that term just shows you are playing to the ignorant crowd or you are simply ignorant yourself, you choose.

I sometimes play games, I sometimes play it serious. Monetary interests that coincide makes cooperation very easy to do. All your dancing around is meant to subvert that very simple truth.

That is what "The Plan" is about. It is no conspiracy, it's simply a plan to increase the money coming in to these athletic departments because the amount of money going out is about to increase and they all want to be in the black instead of taking money from other departments of the University.

It's simple and all you are doing is trying to complicate the issue.

I do stop by the Spin Room from time to time. I usually look at a thread or two, laugh and then go about my business. Sharing my opinion on something with so little actual value, such as with conference realignment, is no big deal to me. Sharing my opinion on topics that matter much more and are closer to the heart for me? That's probably not going to happen. On occasion I share my actual opinion and come out from behind the He1nousone garb as I did recently but that isn't going to happen very often.

"The Plan" assumes that enough entities will collude enough to maximize revenues. I don't see it happening. As I stated earlier, I expect game theory to take over and for a subset of the group - or even individual schools - will upset the apple cart and screw up "The Plan". Even within the P5, there is too much heterogeneity present amongst the schools that would make it impossible for collusion to take place over the long term.

Take the Eurozone as a case study. In theory, a unified currency provides a number of significant benefits to the member nations. However, by unifying on one currency, it removes policy levers previously available to these countries and centralizes that power with a European Central Bank. In a sense, their central banking policies end up aligning most closely with what Germany wants while other nations may suffer. Over a long enough horizon, perhaps all the Eurozone nations converge and become similar in their economies. In practice, that isn't panning out since there is a distinct possibility of one or more PIIGS being booted out of the Eurozone.

The conference realignment pattern is similar to other patterns observed in the world, and so long as human nature is what it is, your belief in a plan is most likely misplaced.

Look, Miko, there is absolutely something to what you are saying. If there wasn't then this would all be done already. It absolutely is difficult and it absolutely is complicated. In the end though, the money opportunity is just too large to pass up. It isn't the general concept that is up for debate at this point, it is the details.

Persons such as yourself condemning and saying no way is all I have heard around here from day one. Everything that has happened that I said would happen was never accepted and embraced around here immediately. I have personally watched the general consensus around here move rather drastically.

My "crazy" ideas are now for the most part accepted to the point that no one even remembers when they would get ugly with their criticisms and insults thrown at me. So, it's not a big deal to me that you disbelieve and want to debate as if your debate is going to change the eventual outcome. It's not because this is all quite simple. It's about money.

(09-01-2015 12:03 PM)gassman Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 06:28 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-31-2015 09:40 PM)gassman Wrote:  The only thing that creates movement is more money in the till.

The only way to do that is increase revenue or decrease costs.

With new softness in ESPN subscriptions being reported and consumers cord cutting and demanding new "skinny" non sports bundles I honestly believe we have reached the peak of sports rights fees going up.

if that is the case most of the movement we see in the future is going to be among the G5 and is going to involve regionalization to lower costs.

This will be resisted at first by many in the G5 such as ECU, UCONN, Cinci, etc but eventually falling revenues will force reality upon the G5 and they will be forced to cut costs to survive.

You will see waves of regionalization as broadcasters start paying a "non P5" rate that is homogenized across conference boundaries.

During this regionalization wave you will see a few stronger FCS teams move up into the G5 along lines of similar size, markets and fan support.

But all movement will make sense in ways to reduce costs and hopefully build more close regional rivalries that can pack stadiums on a yearly basis.

App and Charlotte are the perfect example of this.

They are a couple of hours apart and would pack their stadiums for this game every two years. There is more money to be had in this type of game than flying football and all the Olympics to Texas.

There are probably lots of situations like this all over the country.

Mark it. It will happen.

The problem that you have with your statement is that P5 schools do value some of the G5 and FCS schools more than you think. Might be long history or something like that?

The service academy are valued by all the P5 schools. The long history and prestiged in those schools.
BYU is like the Notre Dame of the west. Not on a larger scale, but they are similar.
Cincinnati, Memphis, East Carolina, UCF, USF, SMU, Houston, Rice, Northern Illinois, Toledo, Ohio U. Arkansas State, Colorado State, Boise State, San Diego State, Wyoming, UNLV, Fresno State, Hawaii, UNR, UTEP, and rising of Georgia Southern, Appalachian State, North Dakota State, Eastern Washington and UTSA could reach the million viewership ratings mark soon.
As long as the top G5 schools get an average of more than a million tv ratings, there would be money be made right there.
That is why many G5 schools are being looked at for P5 spots.

The problem with schools like in the Big 12 is that many of their schools overlapped each other, and can't be telling of a long run of a viewer average until they add no markets. People would tune in to see a rematch between Oklahoma and Boise State if Boise State becomes a member of the Big 12. If both teams play the same way like they did in the Fiesta Bowl? People will tune in every year.
East Carolina is earning more than Duke and Wake Forest right now in ticket sales. So, East Carolina could do even better in a P5, and be number 3 college and University in the state of North Carolina in football. They could be the number 1 football team better than all 4 of the ACC schools right now.

Unless a new P5 member adds $ to the TV contracts they will not expand.

Yes ECU could be the number 1 team in NC easily. If they had the TV money and the exposure against better schools but that is NEVER going to happen.

They are locked out of the party just like the rest of the G5.

The only G5 that gets included is going to be if a P5 school willingly drops out due to ethical reasons or if the B12 needs to add more to get a championship game.

That's it.

ECU is the currently the most successful team in NC right now notwithstanding the 'G5' status if you will. If you take into account what really matters: (1) on the field product and (2) fan support then ECU is currently the #1 football program in the state. ECU has consistently competed with the ACC teams for years and that won't stop for a variety of reasons. Most importantly it's because the football culture is too deep and the support too great to permit such blasphemy. That's something a startup program doesn't have. That's also the reason why some start up program's fans simply can't comprehend/refuse to acknowledge the importance of history and tradition.

ECU has been a player in 'major' CFB since the division 1 split in '78 and our current coach helped lead that '78 team to an Independence bowl victory that same year. ECU finished in the top 20 way back in '83, has finished ranked as high as #9, and was the only G5 program to crack the inaugural CFB Playoff poll last year. We've been around, we're still relevant, and we're not going anywhere so deal with it. There will always be a place for us whether it's as a member of the club one day or as an outside competitor that defies the odds. We fill a vital cog. ECU has not taken the easy way and continues to play tough non-conference schedules and regularly beats the P5 (4 in a row over the ACC right now). The BCS system attempted to thwart ECU's ability to compete but the Pirates are still a program on the rise. This stability and sustainability is yielded fruit from seeds sown years ago.

Tradition means so much in CFB for a reason. ECU consistently get's home and home series with teams like WVU, VT, UNC, NCSU, South Carolina, BYU, etc. directly because of tradition (relationships established long ago) and also due to the support provided by a loyal fan base (we carry our own weight). It's a standard that was set many years ago and at ECU it will simply not be tolerated for the program to fail to adequately compete with the ACC and other regional P5 teams in football no matter how much collusion exists and no matter how many bureaucratic methodologies, paradigms, and hegemonic systems are employed in an effort to marginalize ECU's status in CFB.

It's a numbers game and too many people care about ECU to allow the program to become uncompetitive. Even though we make much less in TV revenue than our ACC counterparts, ECU is making more than ever directly off of the football program and is getting more national exposure than ever before. I think that is a recipe that will allow us to flourish moving forward. Many of these same sentiments also ring true for other schools in the AAC and MWC.

(09-01-2015 09:41 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 07:16 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 07:12 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  This isn't going to be about the SEC competing with the B1G, or PAC, or ACC...it's about the college game competing against other live sports and forms of entertainment. Die hard fans are going to follow regardless, so streamlining the model to the P4/Conference Champs model makes it easier for the layman to follow. THAT is where the growth is going to be for college sports. It doesn't hurt that by adopting that model, you're also giving something the vast majority of diehards want as well.

Just look at the post season scheduling issue coming up. New Year's Day 2017 falls on a Sunday. The Bowls don't want to take on the NFL that day but the CFP wants to. The bigger battle isn't within the NCAA. It is branching out now and challenging other entities. They want to build a product that doesn't have to bend a knee. That requires cooperation on a level never before seen within the NCAA.

To the doubters? They can keep on doubting as they have been continuously. They also have been continuously wrong when going against what I have been telling them.

CFB will lose that game. No sport in the U.S. will be able to take on the NFL. If CFB tries to take the NFL on regularly, what you'll end up seeing is CFB losing it's national appeal. No one will choose NFL lite over the real deal - especially in New England, Mid Atlantic, Chicago, Green Bay.

Agreed.

If CFB is arrogant enough to openly challenge the NFL the NFL is going to react by playing NFL games all weekend long. CFB will win in the south but lose everywhere else.

(09-01-2015 12:03 PM)gassman Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 06:28 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-31-2015 09:40 PM)gassman Wrote:  The only thing that creates movement is more money in the till.

The only way to do that is increase revenue or decrease costs.

With new softness in ESPN subscriptions being reported and consumers cord cutting and demanding new "skinny" non sports bundles I honestly believe we have reached the peak of sports rights fees going up.

if that is the case most of the movement we see in the future is going to be among the G5 and is going to involve regionalization to lower costs.

This will be resisted at first by many in the G5 such as ECU, UCONN, Cinci, etc but eventually falling revenues will force reality upon the G5 and they will be forced to cut costs to survive.

You will see waves of regionalization as broadcasters start paying a "non P5" rate that is homogenized across conference boundaries.

During this regionalization wave you will see a few stronger FCS teams move up into the G5 along lines of similar size, markets and fan support.

But all movement will make sense in ways to reduce costs and hopefully build more close regional rivalries that can pack stadiums on a yearly basis.

App and Charlotte are the perfect example of this.

They are a couple of hours apart and would pack their stadiums for this game every two years. There is more money to be had in this type of game than flying football and all the Olympics to Texas.

There are probably lots of situations like this all over the country.

Mark it. It will happen.

The problem that you have with your statement is that P5 schools do value some of the G5 and FCS schools more than you think. Might be long history or something like that?

The service academy are valued by all the P5 schools. The long history and prestiged in those schools.
BYU is like the Notre Dame of the west. Not on a larger scale, but they are similar.
Cincinnati, Memphis, East Carolina, UCF, USF, SMU, Houston, Rice, Northern Illinois, Toledo, Ohio U. Arkansas State, Colorado State, Boise State, San Diego State, Wyoming, UNLV, Fresno State, Hawaii, UNR, UTEP, and rising of Georgia Southern, Appalachian State, North Dakota State, Eastern Washington and UTSA could reach the million viewership ratings mark soon.
As long as the top G5 schools get an average of more than a million tv ratings, there would be money be made right there.
That is why many G5 schools are being looked at for P5 spots.

The problem with schools like in the Big 12 is that many of their schools overlapped each other, and can't be telling of a long run of a viewer average until they add no markets. People would tune in to see a rematch between Oklahoma and Boise State if Boise State becomes a member of the Big 12. If both teams play the same way like they did in the Fiesta Bowl? People will tune in every year.
East Carolina is earning more than Duke and Wake Forest right now in ticket sales. So, East Carolina could do even better in a P5, and be number 3 college and University in the state of North Carolina in football. They could be the number 1 football team better than all 4 of the ACC schools right now.

Unless a new P5 member adds $ to the TV contracts they will not expand.

Yes ECU could be the number 1 team in NC easily. If they had the TV money and the exposure against better schools but that is NEVER going to happen.

They are locked out of the party just like the rest of the G5.

The only G5 that gets included is going to be if a P5 school willingly drops out due to ethical reasons or if the B12 needs to add more to get a championship game.

That's it.

Boise State got close to 10 million tv viewers when they played Arizona in the Fiesta Bowl. That is value which they are being looked at much more than before. BYU, Cincinnati, Colorado State, East Carolina, Memphis and UCF as well.

(09-01-2015 07:16 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 07:12 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  This isn't going to be about the SEC competing with the B1G, or PAC, or ACC...it's about the college game competing against other live sports and forms of entertainment. Die hard fans are going to follow regardless, so streamlining the model to the P4/Conference Champs model makes it easier for the layman to follow. THAT is where the growth is going to be for college sports. It doesn't hurt that by adopting that model, you're also giving something the vast majority of diehards want as well.

Just look at the post season scheduling issue coming up. New Year's Day 2017 falls on a Sunday. The Bowls don't want to take on the NFL that day but the CFP wants to. The bigger battle isn't within the NCAA. It is branching out now and challenging other entities. They want to build a product that doesn't have to bend a knee. That requires cooperation on a level never before seen within the NCAA.

To the doubters? They can keep on doubting as they have been continuously. They also have been continuously wrong when going against what I have been telling them.

No, the CFP doesn't want to take on the NFL. The New Year's Day Bowl games in 2017 will be on Jan 2, just like they always are whenever Jan 1 falls on a Sunday

http://www.collegefootballplayoff.com/fu...-schedules

(09-01-2015 10:52 PM)Indiana Bones Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 12:03 PM)gassman Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 06:28 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-31-2015 09:40 PM)gassman Wrote:  The only thing that creates movement is more money in the till.

The only way to do that is increase revenue or decrease costs.

With new softness in ESPN subscriptions being reported and consumers cord cutting and demanding new "skinny" non sports bundles I honestly believe we have reached the peak of sports rights fees going up.

if that is the case most of the movement we see in the future is going to be among the G5 and is going to involve regionalization to lower costs.

This will be resisted at first by many in the G5 such as ECU, UCONN, Cinci, etc but eventually falling revenues will force reality upon the G5 and they will be forced to cut costs to survive.

You will see waves of regionalization as broadcasters start paying a "non P5" rate that is homogenized across conference boundaries.

During this regionalization wave you will see a few stronger FCS teams move up into the G5 along lines of similar size, markets and fan support.

But all movement will make sense in ways to reduce costs and hopefully build more close regional rivalries that can pack stadiums on a yearly basis.

App and Charlotte are the perfect example of this.

They are a couple of hours apart and would pack their stadiums for this game every two years. There is more money to be had in this type of game than flying football and all the Olympics to Texas.

There are probably lots of situations like this all over the country.

Mark it. It will happen.

The problem that you have with your statement is that P5 schools do value some of the G5 and FCS schools more than you think. Might be long history or something like that?

The service academy are valued by all the P5 schools. The long history and prestiged in those schools.
BYU is like the Notre Dame of the west. Not on a larger scale, but they are similar.
Cincinnati, Memphis, East Carolina, UCF, USF, SMU, Houston, Rice, Northern Illinois, Toledo, Ohio U. Arkansas State, Colorado State, Boise State, San Diego State, Wyoming, UNLV, Fresno State, Hawaii, UNR, UTEP, and rising of Georgia Southern, Appalachian State, North Dakota State, Eastern Washington and UTSA could reach the million viewership ratings mark soon.
As long as the top G5 schools get an average of more than a million tv ratings, there would be money be made right there.
That is why many G5 schools are being looked at for P5 spots.

The problem with schools like in the Big 12 is that many of their schools overlapped each other, and can't be telling of a long run of a viewer average until they add no markets. People would tune in to see a rematch between Oklahoma and Boise State if Boise State becomes a member of the Big 12. If both teams play the same way like they did in the Fiesta Bowl? People will tune in every year.
East Carolina is earning more than Duke and Wake Forest right now in ticket sales. So, East Carolina could do even better in a P5, and be number 3 college and University in the state of North Carolina in football. They could be the number 1 football team better than all 4 of the ACC schools right now.

Unless a new P5 member adds $ to the TV contracts they will not expand.

Yes ECU could be the number 1 team in NC easily. If they had the TV money and the exposure against better schools but that is NEVER going to happen.

They are locked out of the party just like the rest of the G5.

The only G5 that gets included is going to be if a P5 school willingly drops out due to ethical reasons or if the B12 needs to add more to get a championship game.

That's it.

ECU is the currently the most successful team in NC right now notwithstanding the 'G5' status if you will. If you take into account what really matters: (1) on the field product and (2) fan support then ECU is currently the #1 football program in the state. ECU has consistently competed with the ACC teams for years and that won't stop for a variety of reasons. Most importantly it's because the football culture is too deep and the support too great to permit such blasphemy. That's something a startup program doesn't have. That's also the reason why some start up program's fans simply can't comprehend/refuse to acknowledge the importance of history and tradition.

ECU has been a player in 'major' CFB since the division 1 split in '78 and our current coach helped lead that '78 team to an Independence bowl victory that same year. ECU finished in the top 20 way back in '83, has finished ranked as high as #9, and was the only G5 program to crack the inaugural CFB Playoff poll last year. We've been around, we're still relevant, and we're not going anywhere so deal with it. There will always be a place for us whether it's as a member of the club one day or as an outside competitor that defies the odds. We fill a vital cog. ECU has not taken the easy way and continues to play tough non-conference schedules and regularly beats the P5 (4 in a row over the ACC right now). The BCS system attempted to thwart ECU's ability to compete but the Pirates are still a program on the rise. This stability and sustainability is yielded fruit from seeds sown years ago.

Tradition means so much in CFB for a reason. ECU consistently get's home and home series with teams like WVU, VT, UNC, NCSU, South Carolina, BYU, etc. directly because of tradition (relationships established long ago) and also due to the support provided by a loyal fan base (we carry our own weight). It's a standard that was set many years ago and at ECU it will simply not be tolerated for the program to fail to adequately compete with the ACC and other regional P5 teams in football no matter how much collusion exists and no matter how many bureaucratic methodologies, paradigms, and hegemonic systems are employed in an effort to marginalize ECU's status in CFB.

It's a numbers game and too many people care about ECU to allow the program to become uncompetitive. Even though we make much less in TV revenue than our ACC counterparts, ECU is making more than ever directly off of the football program and is getting more national exposure than ever before. I think that is a recipe that will allow us to flourish moving forward. Many of these same sentiments also ring true for other schools in the AAC and MWC.

Well said! Go Pirates !

(09-01-2015 09:48 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 09:41 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 07:16 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 07:12 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  This isn't going to be about the SEC competing with the B1G, or PAC, or ACC...it's about the college game competing against other live sports and forms of entertainment. Die hard fans are going to follow regardless, so streamlining the model to the P4/Conference Champs model makes it easier for the layman to follow. THAT is where the growth is going to be for college sports. It doesn't hurt that by adopting that model, you're also giving something the vast majority of diehards want as well.

Just look at the post season scheduling issue coming up. New Year's Day 2017 falls on a Sunday. The Bowls don't want to take on the NFL that day but the CFP wants to. The bigger battle isn't within the NCAA. It is branching out now and challenging other entities. They want to build a product that doesn't have to bend a knee. That requires cooperation on a level never before seen within the NCAA.

To the doubters? They can keep on doubting as they have been continuously. They also have been continuously wrong when going against what I have been telling them.

CFB will lose that game. No sport in the U.S. will be able to take on the NFL. If CFB tries to take the NFL on regularly, what you'll end up seeing is CFB losing it's national appeal. No one will choose NFL lite over the real deal - especially in New England, Mid Atlantic, Chicago, Green Bay.

You can say that all you want but that is the battle they are being sold by ESPN and Fox. As the NFL takes more and more of it's content to it's own Network, that is leaving ESPN and Fox on the outside looking in more than ever in regards to the NFL.

What they have on their side of the argument is the 18 rating that the CFP championship game received.

I don't know that it's necessarily to directly go head to head with the NFL so much as it is about being more competitive in the entertainment market. Perhaps I didn't word my response correctly. Ultimately though, we're saying pretty much the same thing...This is more about strengthening CFB as a more national product than it currently is.

(09-02-2015 06:04 AM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 09:48 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 09:41 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 07:16 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 07:12 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  This isn't going to be about the SEC competing with the B1G, or PAC, or ACC...it's about the college game competing against other live sports and forms of entertainment. Die hard fans are going to follow regardless, so streamlining the model to the P4/Conference Champs model makes it easier for the layman to follow. THAT is where the growth is going to be for college sports. It doesn't hurt that by adopting that model, you're also giving something the vast majority of diehards want as well.

Just look at the post season scheduling issue coming up. New Year's Day 2017 falls on a Sunday. The Bowls don't want to take on the NFL that day but the CFP wants to. The bigger battle isn't within the NCAA. It is branching out now and challenging other entities. They want to build a product that doesn't have to bend a knee. That requires cooperation on a level never before seen within the NCAA.

To the doubters? They can keep on doubting as they have been continuously. They also have been continuously wrong when going against what I have been telling them.

CFB will lose that game. No sport in the U.S. will be able to take on the NFL. If CFB tries to take the NFL on regularly, what you'll end up seeing is CFB losing it's national appeal. No one will choose NFL lite over the real deal - especially in New England, Mid Atlantic, Chicago, Green Bay.

You can say that all you want but that is the battle they are being sold by ESPN and Fox. As the NFL takes more and more of it's content to it's own Network, that is leaving ESPN and Fox on the outside looking in more than ever in regards to the NFL.

What they have on their side of the argument is the 18 rating that the CFP championship game received.

I don't know that it's necessarily to directly go head to head with the NFL so much as it is about being more competitive in the entertainment market. Perhaps I didn't word my response correctly. Ultimately though, we're saying pretty much the same thing...This is more about strengthening CFB as a more national product than it currently is.

People are comparing apples and oranges though in a very simplistic and not too bright fashion. We are not talking about competing with regular season games against regular season games.

We are talking about the CFP competing with it's massive ratings against a week of the regular season in the NFL. It's not a fair comparison and it actually favors College Football.

Folks like Miko are jumping onto the generalization bandwagon so it doesn't matter how hard they try to sound smart about it, they are immediately going down the wrong path with a logical fallacy.