Why don't pro choice Republicans ever speak up. Do they get drowned out?

(08-14-2015 09:46 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Lets get back to the op. A lot of physicians say the research is invaluable. Absolutely critical. So critical Dr. Carson used it. Should we be able to use the tissue or will the pro life contingent with their mega phones drown out the debate? The other angle of this. Has anybody changed their minds on this?

Lets put this Non sequitur to bed right now shall we..

Medical students research on cadavers all the time. Some likely had living wills, some were suicides, some died on the way to work. None of them was legally butchered.

If that statement is correct than one can believe that fetal stem cell research is valuable and should be allowed while still believing people should not kill a viable fetus in the womb.

About 10 to 20 percent of known pregnancies end in miscarriage, and around 20 percent of these losses happen after 12 weeks. Add in situations where Abortion might be proper (like the literal life of the mother is at stake) and you have a source for such material.

So we don't need planned parenthood ghouls selling tissue in hopes of luxury sports cars or bragging how their body parts operation is a major source of revenue for the organization.

(08-14-2015 10:35 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-14-2015 10:00 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(08-14-2015 01:23 AM)Leargh! Wrote:  I haven't read the entire thread because I just don't have the patience...

So, let let me just say, yes... SJW here, and I don't give a flying f*ck... My body, my uterus, my choice.

If you don't like the idea of abortion... Don't ******* get one... It is really that simple.
HIIPA, Seriously, it really is that simple.

If I have something that isn't normal for me... I go to my doctor, he says, you're pregnant. I decide what should be done. (Not a simple choice... One that MAY require input from the father.... If I deem him worthy) I make a decision, and I... Me... One person... Not you!. Not your ******* God, not your mother, not your ....whatever.... I.... Make a decision that I live with... So, **** off and quit trying to decide for me.

Whew!!! I feel so much better now.

Sorry. If you want to show me vids of little precious baby parts.... It has no effect on me. I really don't give a ****.... They are just parts. Save your morral righteousness for someone who gives a ****....

DERRRRRRRRRRRRRP BLLLLLLLLLLLLLAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

It is your uterus, your choice. YOU MADE THE CHOICE TO HAVE SEX. SEX CREATES BABIES. Why are you idiots so shocked when sex creates life? It's the natural purpose of the act. Take responsibility for yourself for once, SJW. Life is bigger than YOU. YOU CHOSE to create the life. Your own self-hatred and resentment toward the defenseless and innocent life you created is not justification for killing it.

If you don't like the idea of murder, don't do it. If you don't like the idea of rape, don't do it. Typical stupid logic spewed by your crowd.

Of course it has no effect on you. You're a savage. This is how you operate. Been saying this for 10 pages now.

Does sex always create a baby?
Is it illegal to have sex?
Does contraception ever fail?
Is abortion illegal?

No. But every single time you have sex, you might make a baby. Maybe every male should stamp that disclaimer on their dick to inform the female of this revelation.
No. No one said any nonsense of the sort.
Yes. Any idiot knows that and should take that into account.
No.

(08-14-2015 10:46 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-14-2015 09:46 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Lets get back to the op. A lot of physicians say the research is invaluable. Absolutely critical. So critical Dr. Carson used it. Should we be able to use the tissue or will the pro life contingent with their mega phones drown out the debate? The other angle of this. Has anybody changed their minds on this?

Lets put this Non sequitur to bed right now shall we..

Medical students research on cadavers all the time. Some likely had living wills, some were suicides, some died on the way to work. None of them was legally butchered.

If that statement is correct than one can believe that fetal stem cell research is valuable and should be allowed while still believing people should not kill a viable fetus in the womb.

About 10 to 20 percent of known pregnancies end in miscarriage, and around 20 percent of these losses happen after 12 weeks. Add in situations where Abortion might be proper (like the literal life of the mother is at stake) and you have a source for such material.

So we don't need planned parenthood ghouls selling tissue in hopes of luxury sports cars or bragging how their body parts operation is a major source of revenue for the organization.

Yes...make sure you work in words like butcher...that always help further the discussion.

But your last sentence is where you fall off the rails. You really need to take the emotion out of this and look at what's actually happening. There is no evidence of any PP office making money from tissue donation. And abortions only account for around 3% of PP services to begin with...and not all of them result in tissue donation anyway. It's hardly a financial boon even if they were actually selling tissue for a profit. Again, something an Indiana investigation called by a Republican governor found no evidence of.

Finally, sure...use the tissue from the miscarriages as an alternative...I don't see anyone against that. However, you would still need the consent of the mother, so supplies of viable tissue will still be minimal.

(08-14-2015 11:16 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-14-2015 10:46 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-14-2015 09:46 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Lets get back to the op. A lot of physicians say the research is invaluable. Absolutely critical. So critical Dr. Carson used it. Should we be able to use the tissue or will the pro life contingent with their mega phones drown out the debate? The other angle of this. Has anybody changed their minds on this?

Lets put this Non sequitur to bed right now shall we..

Medical students research on cadavers all the time. Some likely had living wills, some were suicides, some died on the way to work. None of them was legally butchered.

If that statement is correct than one can believe that fetal stem cell research is valuable and should be allowed while still believing people should not kill a viable fetus in the womb.

About 10 to 20 percent of known pregnancies end in miscarriage, and around 20 percent of these losses happen after 12 weeks. Add in situations where Abortion might be proper (like the literal life of the mother is at stake) and you have a source for such material.

So we don't need planned parenthood ghouls selling tissue in hopes of luxury sports cars or bragging how their body parts operation is a major source of revenue for the organization.

Yes...make sure you work in words like butcher...that always help further the discussion.

But your last sentence is where you fall off the rails. You really need to take the emotion out of this and look at what's actually happening. There is no evidence of any PP office making money from tissue donation. And abortions only account for around 3% of PP services to begin with...and not all of them result in tissue donation anyway. It's hardly a financial boon even if they were actually selling tissue for a profit. Again, something an Indiana investigation called by a Republican governor found no evidence of.

Finally, sure...use the tissue from the miscarriages as an alternative...I don't see anyone against that. However, you would still need the consent of the mother, so supplies of viable tissue will still be minimal.

Here we go again with wanting to throw the baby out with the bath water. No pun intended.

Bull I know your passionate about the subject but RWT brings up a good point. Are you able to leave the emotion out of it? Do you think good people can disagree with you on these subjects? Are there good people on both sides of this debate. To me I can unequivocally say Yes.

(08-14-2015 11:16 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-14-2015 10:46 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-14-2015 09:46 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Lets get back to the op. A lot of physicians say the research is invaluable. Absolutely critical. So critical Dr. Carson used it. Should we be able to use the tissue or will the pro life contingent with their mega phones drown out the debate? The other angle of this. Has anybody changed their minds on this?

Lets put this Non sequitur to bed right now shall we..

Medical students research on cadavers all the time. Some likely had living wills, some were suicides, some died on the way to work. None of them was legally butchered.

If that statement is correct than one can believe that fetal stem cell research is valuable and should be allowed while still believing people should not kill a viable fetus in the womb.

About 10 to 20 percent of known pregnancies end in miscarriage, and around 20 percent of these losses happen after 12 weeks. Add in situations where Abortion might be proper (like the literal life of the mother is at stake) and you have a source for such material.

So we don't need planned parenthood ghouls selling tissue in hopes of luxury sports cars or bragging how their body parts operation is a major source of revenue for the organization.

There is no evidence of any PP office making money from tissue donation.

Other than haggling over prices and "market rates"... Yea no evidence at all..

Dr. Carson has refuted the claim that he did research on fetal tissue as patently false.

"Dr. Ben Carson
14 hrs ·

I wanted to use our time tonight to directly deal with an attack launched on me today by the left and the media. A couple questions came in on this subject, so I want to address it head on.

Today I was accused by the press as having done research on fetal tissue. It simply is not true. The study they distributed by an anonymous source was done in 1992. The study was about tumors. I won’t bore you with the science. There were four doctors' names on the study. One was mine. I spent my life studying brain tumors and removing them. My only involvement in this study was supplying tumors that I had removed from my patients. Those tissue samples were compared to other tissue samples under a microscope. Pathologists do this work to gain clues about tumors.

I, nor any of the doctors involved with this study, had anything to do with abortion or what Planned Parenthood has been doing. Research hospitals across the country have microscope slides of all kinds of tissue to compare and contrast. The fetal tissue that was viewed in this study by others was not collected for this study.

I am sickened by the attack that I, after having spent my entire life caring for children, had something to do with aborting a child and harvesting organs. My medical specialty is the human brain and even I am amazed at what it is capable of doing. Please know these attacks are pathetic attempts to blunt our progress."

https://www.facebook.com/realbencarson/p...0902197714

It is nice to read a flat out, full scale, non-equivocating rebuttal by someone in politics rather than the typical obfuscating and word-smithing. No "depends on what the definition of is is."

(08-14-2015 11:21 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Bull I know your passionate about the subject but RWT brings up a good point. Are you able to leave the emotion out of it? Do you think good people can disagree with you on these subjects? Are there good people on both sides of this debate. To me I can unequivocally say Yes.

I'll tell you what... When the pro choice crowd here (1) stops calling people anti choice and (2) stops pretending pro lifers aim is to control women. Then you can lecture about emotion and hyberole.

I think good people can disagree. I also there is a line where you go from a good person with an honest disagreement to a ghoul...

You think that its not a human being until 20 weeks? ok I think you're wrong but respect that.

You think that choice for choice sake is a viable reason then you're a ghoul.

(08-14-2015 11:21 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-14-2015 11:16 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-14-2015 10:46 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-14-2015 09:46 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Lets get back to the op. A lot of physicians say the research is invaluable. Absolutely critical. So critical Dr. Carson used it. Should we be able to use the tissue or will the pro life contingent with their mega phones drown out the debate? The other angle of this. Has anybody changed their minds on this?

Lets put this Non sequitur to bed right now shall we..

Medical students research on cadavers all the time. Some likely had living wills, some were suicides, some died on the way to work. None of them was legally butchered.

If that statement is correct than one can believe that fetal stem cell research is valuable and should be allowed while still believing people should not kill a viable fetus in the womb.

About 10 to 20 percent of known pregnancies end in miscarriage, and around 20 percent of these losses happen after 12 weeks. Add in situations where Abortion might be proper (like the literal life of the mother is at stake) and you have a source for such material.

So we don't need planned parenthood ghouls selling tissue in hopes of luxury sports cars or bragging how their body parts operation is a major source of revenue for the organization.

There is no evidence of any PP office making money from tissue donation.

Other than haggling over prices and "market rates"... Yea no evidence at all..

That is not evidence of making money. The tissue just doesn't move from Point A to Points B and C free of charge. It has to be kept viable and there is a cost associated with that.

(08-14-2015 12:20 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-14-2015 11:21 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  Other than haggling over prices and "market rates"... Yea no evidence at all..

That is not evidence of making money. The tissue just doesn't move from Point A to Points B and C free of charge. It has to be kept viable and there is a cost associated with that.

If all you're doing is covering costs tom then you do not care about market rates. We've been over this but you're playing dumb because it's easier to carry water that way.

(08-14-2015 12:47 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-14-2015 12:20 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-14-2015 11:21 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  Other than haggling over prices and "market rates"... Yea no evidence at all..

That is not evidence of making money. The tissue just doesn't move from Point A to Points B and C free of charge. It has to be kept viable and there is a cost associated with that.

If all you're doing is covering costs tom then you do not care about market rates. We've been over this but you're playing dumb because it's easier to carry water that way.

Sorry BIE, I'm not playing dumb. And I'm not playing emotional. I'm playing rational and properly.

Factually document that PP is making money from the tissue, an illegal activity, and I'll 100% condemn them.

Until then, you're just a clanging gong.

Illegally obtained or deceptively edited videos is proof of nothing. It's the same thing with Lil Jimmy O...when you obtain information this way, it all gets thrown out as garbage.

Again, Indiana investigated PP and found no evidence of wrong doing. I can't help the fact that you think the rule of law and due process should be cast on it's ear just because you just don't happen to agree with the concept of a legal abortion.

The whole, unedited videos are available. You are unbelievably dense. Quit using that tired old crap.

(08-14-2015 07:31 AM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  

(08-14-2015 01:23 AM)Leargh! Wrote:  Sorry. If you want to show me vids of little precious baby parts.... It has no effect on me. I really don't give a ****.... They are just parts. Save your morral righteousness for someone who gives a ****....

Take note everyone, this is the logical conclusion of the pro choice argument. Selfish nihilism

This is the part of her post she really needed to re-phrase.

(08-14-2015 10:00 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(08-14-2015 01:23 AM)Leargh! Wrote:  I haven't read the entire thread because I just don't have the patience...

So, let let me just say, yes... SJW here, and I don't give a flying f*ck... My body, my uterus, my choice.

If you don't like the idea of abortion... Don't ******* get one... It is really that simple.
HIIPA, Seriously, it really is that simple.

If I have something that isn't normal for me... I go to my doctor, he says, you're pregnant. I decide what should be done. (Not a simple choice... One that MAY require input from the father.... If I deem him worthy) I make a decision, and I... Me... One person... Not you!. Not your ******* God, not your mother, not your ....whatever.... I.... Make a decision that I live with... So, **** off and quit trying to decide for me.

Whew!!! I feel so much better now.

Sorry. If you want to show me vids of little precious baby parts.... It has no effect on me. I really don't give a ****.... They are just parts. Save your morral righteousness for someone who gives a ****....

DERRRRRRRRRRRRRP BLLLLLLLLLLLLLAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

It is your uterus, your choice. YOU MADE THE CHOICE TO HAVE SEX. SEX CREATES BABIES. Why are you idiots so shocked when sex creates life? It's the natural purpose of the act. Take responsibility for yourself for once, SJW. Life is bigger than YOU. YOU CHOSE to create the life. Your own self-hatred and resentment toward the defenseless and innocent life you created is not justification for killing it.

If you don't like the idea of murder, don't do it. If you don't like the idea of rape, don't do it. Typical stupid logic spewed by your crowd.

Of course it has no effect on you. You're a savage. This is how you operate. Been saying this for 10 pages now.

How do you know that she chose to have sex? Maybe it wasn't her choice at all?

(08-14-2015 01:01 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(08-14-2015 10:00 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(08-14-2015 01:23 AM)Leargh! Wrote:  I haven't read the entire thread because I just don't have the patience...

So, let let me just say, yes... SJW here, and I don't give a flying f*ck... My body, my uterus, my choice.

If you don't like the idea of abortion... Don't ******* get one... It is really that simple.
HIIPA, Seriously, it really is that simple.

If I have something that isn't normal for me... I go to my doctor, he says, you're pregnant. I decide what should be done. (Not a simple choice... One that MAY require input from the father.... If I deem him worthy) I make a decision, and I... Me... One person... Not you!. Not your ******* God, not your mother, not your ....whatever.... I.... Make a decision that I live with... So, **** off and quit trying to decide for me.

Whew!!! I feel so much better now.

Sorry. If you want to show me vids of little precious baby parts.... It has no effect on me. I really don't give a ****.... They are just parts. Save your morral righteousness for someone who gives a ****....

DERRRRRRRRRRRRRP BLLLLLLLLLLLLLAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

It is your uterus, your choice. YOU MADE THE CHOICE TO HAVE SEX. SEX CREATES BABIES. Why are you idiots so shocked when sex creates life? It's the natural purpose of the act. Take responsibility for yourself for once, SJW. Life is bigger than YOU. YOU CHOSE to create the life. Your own self-hatred and resentment toward the defenseless and innocent life you created is not justification for killing it.

If you don't like the idea of murder, don't do it. If you don't like the idea of rape, don't do it. Typical stupid logic spewed by your crowd.

Of course it has no effect on you. You're a savage. This is how you operate. Been saying this for 10 pages now.

How do you know that she chose to have sex? Maybe it wasn't her choice at all?

Oh, the tiny percentage of abortions that result from rape.

Great, this again.

(08-14-2015 12:56 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  The whole, unedited videos are available. You are unbelievably dense. Quit using that tired old crap.

Yes. But why then release the edited ones to begin with? And why show them to congressional Republicans weeks before their release?

And I don't have the time (or the desire really) to watch them. But I've read the reports from those who have and the unbiased ones say they prove little.

(08-14-2015 01:03 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(08-14-2015 01:01 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(08-14-2015 10:00 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(08-14-2015 01:23 AM)Leargh! Wrote:  I haven't read the entire thread because I just don't have the patience...

So, let let me just say, yes... SJW here, and I don't give a flying f*ck... My body, my uterus, my choice.

If you don't like the idea of abortion... Don't ******* get one... It is really that simple.
HIIPA, Seriously, it really is that simple.

If I have something that isn't normal for me... I go to my doctor, he says, you're pregnant. I decide what should be done. (Not a simple choice... One that MAY require input from the father.... If I deem him worthy) I make a decision, and I... Me... One person... Not you!. Not your ******* God, not your mother, not your ....whatever.... I.... Make a decision that I live with... So, **** off and quit trying to decide for me.

Whew!!! I feel so much better now.

Sorry. If you want to show me vids of little precious baby parts.... It has no effect on me. I really don't give a ****.... They are just parts. Save your morral righteousness for someone who gives a ****....

DERRRRRRRRRRRRRP BLLLLLLLLLLLLLAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

It is your uterus, your choice. YOU MADE THE CHOICE TO HAVE SEX. SEX CREATES BABIES. Why are you idiots so shocked when sex creates life? It's the natural purpose of the act. Take responsibility for yourself for once, SJW. Life is bigger than YOU. YOU CHOSE to create the life. Your own self-hatred and resentment toward the defenseless and innocent life you created is not justification for killing it.

If you don't like the idea of murder, don't do it. If you don't like the idea of rape, don't do it. Typical stupid logic spewed by your crowd.

Of course it has no effect on you. You're a savage. This is how you operate. Been saying this for 10 pages now.

How do you know that she chose to have sex? Maybe it wasn't her choice at all?

Oh, the tiny percentage of abortions that result from rape.

Great, this again.

1% is the estimate of abortions on rape victims.
http://www.abort73.com/abortion_facts/us...tatistics/

(08-14-2015 12:54 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-14-2015 12:47 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-14-2015 12:20 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-14-2015 11:21 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  Other than haggling over prices and "market rates"... Yea no evidence at all..

That is not evidence of making money. The tissue just doesn't move from Point A to Points B and C free of charge. It has to be kept viable and there is a cost associated with that.

If all you're doing is covering costs tom then you do not care about market rates. We've been over this but you're playing dumb because it's easier to carry water that way.

Sorry BIE, I'm not playing dumb. And I'm not playing emotional. I'm playing rational and properly.

Factually document that PP is making money from the tissue, an illegal activity, and I'll 100% condemn them.

No. You would not. You're not intellectually honest enough. I think Mach might but not you.

You've been perpetuating this argument for how long and you haven't even watched the damn videos?

I guess it's easier just to keep your head buried in the sand.