(06-11-2015 05:24 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  1. The high deductible policy issue has been reported on extensively in the media.

We need to keep bringing it up, because some people with grandfathered plans or who have never purchased insurance may not know what the new normal is for deductibles. You lose your coverage that you have had for years, and you will be in for a big-ass shock.

Quote:2. About 40% of the people that purchase policies pick high deductible plans (defined as over 1.5k individual, 3K family) according to the latest Kaiser survey. Interestingly enough a higher percentage of people in high deductible plans are those holding on to grandfathered policies.

Likely because they have a $10-$20 co-pay for standard office visits, and a much better drug plan. Also because the alternative in their area is an Obamacare plan with 2x-3x their current deductibles.

[/quote]

(06-11-2015 06:54 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 05:24 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  1. The high deductible policy issue has been reported on extensively in the media.

We need to keep bringing it up, because some people with grandfathered plans or who have never purchased insurance may not know what the new normal is for deductibles. You lose your coverage that you have had for years, and you will be in for a big-ass shock.

Quote:2. About 40% of the people that purchase policies pick high deductible plans (defined as over 1.5k individual, 3K family) according to the latest Kaiser survey. Interestingly enough a higher percentage of people in high deductible plans are those holding on to grandfathered policies.

Likely because they have a $10-$20 co-pay for standard office visits, and a much better drug plan. Also because the alternative in their area is an Obamacare plan with 2x-3x their current deductibles.

[/quote]

Did you missed the part about the grandfathered policies tending to be the ones that have higher deductibles?

Maybe you should read the report.

Im still hung up on the fact there are more Medicaid enrollments than qualified policies even when those forced off their plan and onto the exchange plans are counted.
Anybody with a functioning brain can tell this was not the way to improve health insurance coverage.

(06-11-2015 07:24 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 06:54 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 05:24 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  1. The high deductible policy issue has been reported on extensively in the media.

We need to keep bringing it up, because some people with grandfathered plans or who have never purchased insurance may not know what the new normal is for deductibles. You lose your coverage that you have had for years, and you will be in for a big-ass shock.

Quote:2. About 40% of the people that purchase policies pick high deductible plans (defined as over 1.5k individual, 3K family) according to the latest Kaiser survey. Interestingly enough a higher percentage of people in high deductible plans are those holding on to grandfathered policies.

Likely because they have a $10-$20 co-pay for standard office visits, and a much better drug plan. Also because the alternative in their area is an Obamacare plan with 2x-3x their current deductibles.

Did you missed the part about the grandfathered policies tending to be the ones that have higher deductibles?

Maybe you should read the report.
[/quote]

Did you read where a co-pay is not a deductible?

For instance, my last insurance policy prior to this obamacare compliant crap I have now was a $250/$500 deductible, but it had $15 copays for office visits.

That meant that if I needed to go to Campbells clinic for an Xray, it cost $15. I did not have to shell out more than that due to a deductible.

The piece of **** I have now would mean I would have to pay Campbells clinic a few hundred bucks for the visit and xray.

(06-11-2015 09:31 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 07:24 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 06:54 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 05:24 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  1. The high deductible policy issue has been reported on extensively in the media.

We need to keep bringing it up, because some people with grandfathered plans or who have never purchased insurance may not know what the new normal is for deductibles. You lose your coverage that you have had for years, and you will be in for a big-ass shock.

Quote:2. About 40% of the people that purchase policies pick high deductible plans (defined as over 1.5k individual, 3K family) according to the latest Kaiser survey. Interestingly enough a higher percentage of people in high deductible plans are those holding on to grandfathered policies.

Likely because they have a $10-$20 co-pay for standard office visits, and a much better drug plan. Also because the alternative in their area is an Obamacare plan with 2x-3x their current deductibles.

Did you missed the part about the grandfathered policies tending to be the ones that have higher deductibles?

Maybe you should read the report.

Did you read where a co-pay is not a deductible?

For instance, my last insurance policy prior to this obamacare compliant crap I have now was a $250/$500 deductible, but it had $15 copays for office visits.

That meant that if I needed to go to Campbells clinic for an Xray, it cost $15. I did not have to shell out more than that due to a deductible.

The piece of **** I have now would mean I would have to pay Campbells clinic a few hundred bucks for the visit and xray.
[/quote]

No point in trying to point out the obvious to dawg. Clearly the ACA is the highlight of his life and the greatest legislation ever to him.

(06-11-2015 05:24 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  1. The high deductible policy issue has been reported on extensively in the media.

2. About 40% of the people that purchase policies pick high deductible plans (defined as over 1.5k individual, 3K family) according to the latest Kaiser survey. Interestingly enough a higher percentage of people in high deductible plans are those holding on to grandfathered policies.

Those aren't high deductible policies by any measure. Those would all be 'gold' exchange policies. I understand that it can be framed that way, but that is because 'high' is a relative and not an absolute term. Yes it is covered by Kaiser and reported on in the media, but that doesn't make it somehow free from interpretation bias. Simplest example... using your last comment... if you moved those figures to say $4000 for an individual and maybe $10,000 for a family, you'd probably find that the higher percentage is a vastly different group.

So you go from implying that most grandfathered policies have high deductibles, to implying that most exchange plans have high deductibles merely by changing the definition of 'high'. Kaiser reports the figures and i don't doubt their numbers... but that doesn't make them an authority on 'high'.... and i doubt (as I deal with their data every day) that they are actually trying to claim that 4k for a family is 'high'.

Quote:5. There are plenty of people / groups out there looking at all of this and it is covered extensively in the media. Kaiser covers much of this, and Kaiser reports are covered all over the MSM.

http://kff.org/health-reform/poll-findin...es-wave-2/

Again, it's the interpretation by the media and other groups... not the data itself. I find your sources of interpretation to be specious... but rather than debate them, since you're only reading what other people write and I'm living it, I'll just let it go. the data is generally accurate, but that doesn't make the implications from that data correct.

(06-11-2015 08:07 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Im still hung up on the fact there are more Medicaid enrollments than qualified policies even when those forced off their plan and onto the exchange plans are counted.
Anybody with a functioning brain can tell this was not the way to improve health insurance coverage.

Unfotunately, lots of voters don't have functioning brains. The bigger problem is that we've made something that is actually fairly straightforward so complicated that few can understand it... so all someone with bad intentions has to do is come up with a plausible story and then when someone with good intentions tries to explain the truth, they act like you're 'confusing'. It IS intentionally confusing and the government wants it that way. Simple lies are easier to sell than complicated truths.

(06-11-2015 07:24 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 06:54 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 05:24 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  1. The high deductible policy issue has been reported on extensively in the media.

We need to keep bringing it up, because some people with grandfathered plans or who have never purchased insurance may not know what the new normal is for deductibles. You lose your coverage that you have had for years, and you will be in for a big-ass shock.

Quote:2. About 40% of the people that purchase policies pick high deductible plans (defined as over 1.5k individual, 3K family) according to the latest Kaiser survey. Interestingly enough a higher percentage of people in high deductible plans are those holding on to grandfathered policies.

Likely because they have a $10-$20 co-pay for standard office visits, and a much better drug plan. Also because the alternative in their area is an Obamacare plan with 2x-3x their current deductibles.

Did you missed the part about the grandfathered policies tending to be the ones that have higher deductibles?

Maybe you should read the report.

After thinking about this again last night, I have come to the conclusion that there is no way you could possibly understand how bad many people have it now. You really dont seem to grasp the concept of co-pay's, or how they are different than deductibles. Without that knowledge, you couldnt understand that people prior to Obamacare could get basic office visit services for $10-$20 a visit. Xrays, shots, bloodwork. None of that invoked the deductible.

And for those who lost their previous plan, they no longer have the co-pay option. All they likely have is a high deductible option.

You see, there is a big difference between policies that have a $2000 deductible and a $20 office co-pay, and a policy that simply has a $2000 deductible. The difference for many people equates to having to spend upwards of an additional $1900 a year for care, or they have to simply skip the care.

Thats how bad this sh*t is now.

(06-12-2015 10:26 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 07:24 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 06:54 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 05:24 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  1. The high deductible policy issue has been reported on extensively in the media.

We need to keep bringing it up, because some people with grandfathered plans or who have never purchased insurance may not know what the new normal is for deductibles. You lose your coverage that you have had for years, and you will be in for a big-ass shock.

Quote:2. About 40% of the people that purchase policies pick high deductible plans (defined as over 1.5k individual, 3K family) according to the latest Kaiser survey. Interestingly enough a higher percentage of people in high deductible plans are those holding on to grandfathered policies.

Likely because they have a $10-$20 co-pay for standard office visits, and a much better drug plan. Also because the alternative in their area is an Obamacare plan with 2x-3x their current deductibles.

Did you missed the part about the grandfathered policies tending to be the ones that have higher deductibles?

Maybe you should read the report.

After thinking about this again last night, I have come to the conclusion that there is no way you could possibly understand how bad many people have it now. You really dont seem to grasp the concept of co-pay's, or how they are different than deductibles. Without that knowledge, you couldnt understand that people prior to Obamacare could get basic office visit services for $10-$20 a visit. Xrays, shots, bloodwork. None of that invoked the deductible.

And for those who lost their previous plan, they no longer have the co-pay option. All they likely have is a high deductible option.

You see, there is a big difference between policies that have a $2000 deductible and a $20 office co-pay, and a policy that simply has a $2000 deductible. The difference for many people equates to having to spend upwards of an additional $1900 a year for care, or they have to simply skip the care.

Thats how bad this sh*t is now.

I will give you a real life example of the change in my insurance pre-ACA to now. Prior to 2014 I had health insurance with a $300 family deductible and a $20 office co-pay. If we got sick or injured we didn't think twice about making an appt with our PCP or going to urgent care or the ER for an emergency.

Since 2014, our premiums are just slightly higher than pre-ACA but our family deductible is now $3000 and our co-pay $25. We have used $800 in care so far in 2015 so before anything (beyond covered preventative like pap smears) is covered we are still on the hook for $2200.

Two Mondays ago I fell on our steps and torqued my left shin. It swelled up but I could still walk on it and bear weight so I figured it would probably be bruised and hurt but would heal. Flash forward to today. It's still swollen, badly bruised in the area of contact and in other places on my shin. I'm wondering if I might have a hairline fracture since it is still swollen.

In 2013 I would've already gone to the doctor to have it checked and not thought twice about it.

In 2015 if I go to the doctor I am on the hook for all of the care up to $2200 — you know they will order xrays, maybe a scan to check for soft tissue damage, maybe a visit to an orthoped...and I might rack up a pretty good bill…and still not meet my deductible.

$2200 is a lot of money so I sit with my leg elevated, applying heat/ice and hoping the swelling goes away so that it heals without medical intervention.

Thanks ACA!

(06-12-2015 10:54 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  I will give you a real life example of the change in my insurance pre-ACA to now. Prior to 2014 I had health insurance with a $300 family deductible and a $20 office co-pay. If we got sick or injured we didn't think twice about making an appt with our PCP or going to urgent care or the ER for an emergency.

Since 2014, our premiums are just slightly higher than pre-ACA but our family deductible is now $3000 and our co-pay $25. We have used $800 in care so far in 2015 so before anything (beyond covered preventative like pap smears) is covered we are still on the hook for $2200.

Two Mondays ago I fell on our steps and torqued my left shin. It swelled up but I could still walk on it and bear weight so I figured it would probably be bruised and hurt but would heal. Flash forward to today. It's still swollen, badly bruised in the area of contact and in other places on my shin. I'm wondering if I might have a hairline fracture since it is still swollen.

In 2013 I would've already gone to the doctor to have it checked and not thought twice about it.

In 2015 if I go to the doctor I am on the hook for all of the care up to $2200 — you know they will order xrays, maybe a scan to check for soft tissue damage, maybe a visit to an orthoped...and I might rack up a pretty good bill…and still not meet my deductible.

$2200 is a lot of money so I sit with my leg elevated, applying heat/ice and hoping the swelling goes away so that it heals without medical intervention.

Thanks ACA!

Of course this is anecdotal, so it will be dismissed by 'the left', but then they will proceed to trot out the 'straw man' of the poor person who didn't have insurance so they didn't get check-ups for their type 2 diabetes and smoking and drinking related issues caused primarily by their poor life choices... who suddenly now will not only take off work to make that appointment, but despite knowing all along that he needed to make better choices and intentionally not doing so, suddenly because he has insurance, he's going to make better choices and eat and drink and smoke less and exercise more. 'YAY ACA".

The important thing to note about your example is that you are utilizing LESS healthcare as a result of changes to the ACA. While this certainly does open up a slot for someone else to get healthcare instead, it is merely re-allocating the existing care. Their available care goes up and yours goes down. That is precisely how the ACA works.

(06-12-2015 10:54 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  I will give you a real life example of the change in my insurance pre-ACA to now. Prior to 2014 I had health insurance with a $300 family deductible and a $20 office co-pay. If we got sick or injured we didn't think twice about making an appt with our PCP or going to urgent care or the ER for an emergency.

Since 2014, our premiums are just slightly higher than pre-ACA but our family deductible is now $3000 and our co-pay $25. We have used $800 in care so far in 2015 so before anything (beyond covered preventative like pap smears) is covered we are still on the hook for $2200.

Two Mondays ago I fell on our steps and torqued my left shin. It swelled up but I could still walk on it and bear weight so I figured it would probably be bruised and hurt but would heal. Flash forward to today. It's still swollen, badly bruised in the area of contact and in other places on my shin. I'm wondering if I might have a hairline fracture since it is still swollen.

In 2013 I would've already gone to the doctor to have it checked and not thought twice about it.

In 2015 if I go to the doctor I am on the hook for all of the care up to $2200 — you know they will order xrays, maybe a scan to check for soft tissue damage, maybe a visit to an orthoped...and I might rack up a pretty good bill…and still not meet my deductible.

$2200 is a lot of money so I sit with my leg elevated, applying heat/ice and hoping the swelling goes away so that it heals without medical intervention.

Thanks ACA!

Prior to the ACA, were you buying the insurance yourself or was it provided through your employer. And what is it after the ACA? The same?

Finally, I would suggest going to one of those after hours places. We have them all over in my town now...they normally cost around $50 to $100 for the doctor to look at you. Certainly cheaper than the ER or your primary care physician. At least you'd know if it's something severe or not.

(06-12-2015 12:00 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-12-2015 10:54 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  I will give you a real life example of the change in my insurance pre-ACA to now. Prior to 2014 I had health insurance with a $300 family deductible and a $20 office co-pay. If we got sick or injured we didn't think twice about making an appt with our PCP or going to urgent care or the ER for an emergency.

Since 2014, our premiums are just slightly higher than pre-ACA but our family deductible is now $3000 and our co-pay $25. We have used $800 in care so far in 2015 so before anything (beyond covered preventative like pap smears) is covered we are still on the hook for $2200.

Two Mondays ago I fell on our steps and torqued my left shin. It swelled up but I could still walk on it and bear weight so I figured it would probably be bruised and hurt but would heal. Flash forward to today. It's still swollen, badly bruised in the area of contact and in other places on my shin. I'm wondering if I might have a hairline fracture since it is still swollen.

In 2013 I would've already gone to the doctor to have it checked and not thought twice about it.

In 2015 if I go to the doctor I am on the hook for all of the care up to $2200 — you know they will order xrays, maybe a scan to check for soft tissue damage, maybe a visit to an orthoped...and I might rack up a pretty good bill…and still not meet my deductible.

$2200 is a lot of money so I sit with my leg elevated, applying heat/ice and hoping the swelling goes away so that it heals without medical intervention.

Thanks ACA!

Prior to the ACA, were you buying the insurance yourself or was it provided through your employer. And what is it after the ACA? The same?

Finally, I would suggest going to one of those after hours places. We have them all over in my town now...they normally cost around $50 to $100 for the doctor to look at you. Certainly cheaper than the ER or your primary care physician. At least you'd know if it's something severe or not.

Both pre and post ACA policies were employer provided (employer pays part and we pay part of the monthly premium for the policy). When the higher deductible happened (which coincided with the ACA requirements taking effect) our employer showed us a PPT that demonstrated that the insurance plan costs were increasing so they were increasing their employer contribution but that they had to go with the higher deductible in order to keep our portion of the premium about the same. Both employer and employee are sharing the burden...with the employee agreeing to a higher deductible to help keep the premium increase down to a manageable % and the employer picking up the increase in premium cost.

I will check and see if our coverage includes those Urgent Cares or Take Care clinics. I'm fearful of a referral from one of those not being covered.

(06-12-2015 12:00 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Finally, I would suggest going to one of those after hours places. We have them all over in my town now...they normally cost around $50 to $100 for the doctor to look at you. Certainly cheaper than the ER or your primary care physician. At least you'd know if it's something severe or not.

While I agree with you that this is the cost efficient thing to do, you realize that you just told him to intentionally NOT use the insurance that we've been told is so vital that we all have?

(06-12-2015 12:18 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  I will check and see if our coverage includes those Urgent Cares or Take Care clinics. I'm fearful of a referral from one of those not being covered.

If you have a PPO, All you really need to know is that it counts against your OOP. If an HMO, then they should have one or more of them on their list.

(06-12-2015 12:46 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(06-12-2015 12:00 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Finally, I would suggest going to one of those after hours places. We have them all over in my town now...they normally cost around $50 to $100 for the doctor to look at you. Certainly cheaper than the ER or your primary care physician. At least you'd know if it's something severe or not.

While I agree with you that this is the cost efficient thing to do, you realize that you just told him to intentionally NOT use the insurance that we've been told is so vital that we all have?

Yes, but those places will still run the claim through your insurance and apply the amount to your deductible, at least the one I use does. He has to pay for most all of it anyway, might as well pay less.

(06-12-2015 12:18 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(06-12-2015 12:00 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-12-2015 10:54 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  I will give you a real life example of the change in my insurance pre-ACA to now. Prior to 2014 I had health insurance with a $300 family deductible and a $20 office co-pay. If we got sick or injured we didn't think twice about making an appt with our PCP or going to urgent care or the ER for an emergency.

Since 2014, our premiums are just slightly higher than pre-ACA but our family deductible is now $3000 and our co-pay $25. We have used $800 in care so far in 2015 so before anything (beyond covered preventative like pap smears) is covered we are still on the hook for $2200.

Two Mondays ago I fell on our steps and torqued my left shin. It swelled up but I could still walk on it and bear weight so I figured it would probably be bruised and hurt but would heal. Flash forward to today. It's still swollen, badly bruised in the area of contact and in other places on my shin. I'm wondering if I might have a hairline fracture since it is still swollen.

In 2013 I would've already gone to the doctor to have it checked and not thought twice about it.

In 2015 if I go to the doctor I am on the hook for all of the care up to $2200 — you know they will order xrays, maybe a scan to check for soft tissue damage, maybe a visit to an orthoped...and I might rack up a pretty good bill…and still not meet my deductible.

$2200 is a lot of money so I sit with my leg elevated, applying heat/ice and hoping the swelling goes away so that it heals without medical intervention.

Thanks ACA!

Prior to the ACA, were you buying the insurance yourself or was it provided through your employer. And what is it after the ACA? The same?

Finally, I would suggest going to one of those after hours places. We have them all over in my town now...they normally cost around $50 to $100 for the doctor to look at you. Certainly cheaper than the ER or your primary care physician. At least you'd know if it's something severe or not.

Both pre and post ACA policies were employer provided (employer pays part and we pay part of the monthly premium for the policy). When the higher deductible happened (which coincided with the ACA requirements taking effect) our employer showed us a PPT that demonstrated that the insurance plan costs were increasing so they were increasing their employer contribution but that they had to go with the higher deductible in order to keep our portion of the premium about the same. Both employer and employee are sharing the burden...with the employee agreeing to a higher deductible to help keep the premium increase down to a manageable % and the employer picking up the increase in premium cost.

I will check and see if our coverage includes those Urgent Cares or Take Care clinics. I'm fearful of a referral from one of those not being covered.

Granted, I work for a pretty large company...but my deductibles were always pretty high (pre and post-ACA) and my monthly out of pocket cost for the insurance changed very little after the ACA.

How much of the total cost of insurance was your company picking up pre-ACA to get your deductible so low? It sounds like they were picking up quite a bit.

And how much are they picking up now?

(06-12-2015 02:04 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-12-2015 12:46 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(06-12-2015 12:00 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Finally, I would suggest going to one of those after hours places. We have them all over in my town now...they normally cost around $50 to $100 for the doctor to look at you. Certainly cheaper than the ER or your primary care physician. At least you'd know if it's something severe or not.

While I agree with you that this is the cost efficient thing to do, you realize that you just told him to intentionally NOT use the insurance that we've been told is so vital that we all have?

Yes, but those places will still run the claim through your insurance and apply the amount to your deductible, at least the one I use does. He has to pay for most all of it anyway, might as well pay less.

Like I said... agree 100%. I'm only pointing out that having 'insurance' doesn't mean you don't have to pay a lot out of pocket. My suggestion on healthcare was always to cover this sort of stuff because it is cheap... make wealthier pay a little OOP, no problem.... But then make the MAJOR OOP, especially for poor people based on making good as opposed to bad decisions. i.e. we will pay for you to get a check-up for your doctor to tell you to eat less, exercise more, stop smoking and take your meds... and we will pay for your meds... but if you DON'T eat less, exercise more, stop smoking or take your meds, you have to pay a little more OOP. If you break your leg in an accident, you are covered... If you break your leg doing something stupid for youtube, you pay a little more OOP.

My point is that we shouldn't be discouraging people from getting care. We should instead discourage them from doing stupid things.

(06-12-2015 02:08 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Granted, I work for a pretty large company...but my deductibles were always pretty high (pre and post-ACA) and my monthly out of pocket cost for the insurance changed very little after the ACA.

Right... and really, it shouldn't. Large companies cover all sorts of PECs and because they are large, their 'universe' looks very much like the rest of the country. While a few people may hit their lifetime caps, most won't and some won't spend a dime. This is precisely why and where Obama came up with the comment that the ACA would save the average person $2500 (or something to that effect... not trying to make a direct quote).... because it doesn't really cost more to deliver you care than before... and they don't need to add much to your costs, especially if they are actually reducing your utilization and giving that visit to someone else.

It's all the rules about requiring young healthy people to pay $4,000+/yr for $300 in healthcare, doctors to get paid based on patient surveys and corporations to dump people onto exchanges to avoid fines etc etc etc that causes all the problems.

Just a point of clarification: The $2,500 comments from Obama were made WAY before the ACA took final shape and was based on stuff that didn't come anywhere close to what was in the final bill.

These were made back in 2008 before he was even president...and on most occasions, he said up to or as much as $2,500 per year. In a few, he did say an average of $2,500. I know I read how they were calculating that amount at one point, but I can't find the story as of yet.

(06-12-2015 03:08 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Just a point of clarification: The $2,500 comments from Obama were made WAY before the ACA took final shape and was based on stuff that didn't come anywhere close to what was in the final bill.

These were made back in 2008 before he was even president...and on most occasions, he said up to or as much as $2,500 per year. In a few, he did say an average of $2,500. I know I read how they were calculating that amount at one point, but I can't find the story as of yet.

Got it. He lied.

(06-11-2015 10:46 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 05:24 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  1. The high deductible policy issue has been reported on extensively in the media.

2. About 40% of the people that purchase policies pick high deductible plans (defined as over 1.5k individual, 3K family) according to the latest Kaiser survey. Interestingly enough a higher percentage of people in high deductible plans are those holding on to grandfathered policies.

Those aren't high deductible policies by any measure. Those would all be 'gold' exchange policies. I understand that it can be framed that way, but that is because 'high' is a relative and not an absolute term. Yes it is covered by Kaiser and reported on in the media, but that doesn't make it somehow free from interpretation bias. Simplest example... using your last comment... if you moved those figures to say $4000 for an individual and maybe $10,000 for a family, you'd probably find that the higher percentage is a vastly different group.

So you go from implying that most grandfathered policies have high deductibles, to implying that most exchange plans have high deductibles merely by changing the definition of 'high'. Kaiser reports the figures and i don't doubt their numbers... but that doesn't make them an authority on 'high'.... and i doubt (as I deal with their data every day) that they are actually trying to claim that 4k for a family is 'high'.

Quote:5. There are plenty of people / groups out there looking at all of this and it is covered extensively in the media. Kaiser covers much of this, and Kaiser reports are covered all over the MSM.

http://kff.org/health-reform/poll-findin...es-wave-2/

Again, it's the interpretation by the media and other groups... not the data itself. I find your sources of interpretation to be specious... but rather than debate them, since you're only reading what other people write and I'm living it, I'll just let it go. the data is generally accurate, but that doesn't make the implications from that data correct.

(06-11-2015 08:07 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Im still hung up on the fact there are more Medicaid enrollments than qualified policies even when those forced off their plan and onto the exchange plans are counted.
Anybody with a functioning brain can tell this was not the way to improve health insurance coverage.

Unfotunately, lots of voters don't have functioning brains. The bigger problem is that we've made something that is actually fairly straightforward so complicated that few can understand it... so all someone with bad intentions has to do is come up with a plausible story and then when someone with good intentions tries to explain the truth, they act like you're 'confusing'. It IS intentionally confusing and the government wants it that way. Simple lies are easier to sell than complicated truths.

The anti-ACA spin is that all that are out there are high out of pocket policies and now you are saying that what Kaiser considers for the purposes of their survey to be high deductible policies aren't high at all! If that is the case it serves to dispute that claim. That means that less than 40% of the people buying individual policies (grandfathered and ACA compliant) are buying high deductible plans. That is certainly a positive.

Here are some averages regarding deductibles and OOP maximums for various plans.

For group / employer plans deductibles average 1.2K, out of pocket maximums average 3k, PCP visits $24, and specialists $36. Hospital visits average $280.

For ACA Platinum plans deductibles average $400, out of pocket maximums average 2k, PCP visits $18, and specialists $29. Hospital visits average $330.

For ACA Gold plans deductibles average 1.4k, out of pocket maximums average 4.5k, PCP visits $22, and specialists $44. Hospital visits average $330.

For ACA Silver plans deductibles average 3.4k, out of pocket maximums average 5.8k, PCP visits $28, and specialists $56. Hospital visits average $500.

For ACA Bronze plans deductibles average 6k, out of pocket maximums average 6.6k, PCP visits $38, and specialists $65. Hospital visits average $450.

(06-12-2015 03:08 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Just a point of clarification: The $2,500 comments from Obama were made WAY before the ACA took final shape and was based on stuff that didn't come anywhere close to what was in the final bill.

These were made back in 2008 before he was even president...and on most occasions, he said up to or as much as $2,500 per year. In a few, he did say an average of $2,500. I know I read how they were calculating that amount at one point, but I can't find the story as of yet.

So Obama shouldnt have been making those claims since it was clear he hadn't read the bill. Oh yeah i guess he was just like everybody else, he didnt know what was in the bill because we had to pass the bill to find out.

He either knowingly lied, or made statements without knowing what was in his own healthcare bill. I can't decide which is worse.

(06-12-2015 06:01 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  So Obama shouldnt have been making those claims since it was clear he hadn't read the bill. Oh yeah i guess he was just like everybody else, he didn't know what was in the bill because we had to pass the bill to find out.
He either knowingly lied, or made statements without knowing what was in his own healthcare bill. I can't decide which is worse.

Neither is worse. He's the Messiah, remember?