I realize these are just rates that are being submitted to state insurance agencies for review, but in some cases, the numbers are staggering. Here's a sampling:

Quote:In New Mexico, market leader Health Care Service Corp. is asking for an average jump of 51.6% in premiums for 2016. The biggest insurer in Tennessee, BlueCross BlueShield of Tennessee, has requested an average 36.3% increase. In Maryland, market leader CareFirst BlueCross BlueShield wants to raise rates 30.4% across its products. Moda Health, the largest insurer on the Oregon health exchange, seeks an average boost of around 25%. .......

Anthem Inc., in Virginia, wants an average increase of 13.2%. Blue Care Network, part of Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, applied for a 10% average increase.

In Washington state and Vermont, the market leaders have sought relatively modest average increases, akin to those proposed last year, of 9.6% and 8.4%, respectively. In Indiana and Connecticut, the leading plans want 3.8% and 2% boosts. So far, Maine is the only state where the market leader proposed keeping rates generally flat.

When you qualify 9.6% as modest, in a low inflationary environment, that says something.

I remember before ObamaCare our premiums would go up more than 9.6% a year. Heck one year in the late 90's our premiums when up 16%. This isn't a new phenomena Socratic.

(05-22-2015 07:42 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I remember before ObamaCare our premiums would go up more than 9.6% a year. Heck one year in the late 90's our premiums when up 16%. This isn't a new phenomena Socratic.

Wasn't Obamacare supposed to put the brakes on increases?

(05-22-2015 07:42 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I remember before ObamaCare our premiums would go up more than 9.6% a year. Heck one year in the late 90's our premiums when up 16%. This isn't a new phenomena Socratic.

Not for high deductible policies. You might be talking about real insurance, but not the crap that gets passed off as insurance under Obamacare.

that is only for people who don't work. those of us in the middle class have to pay for everyone else.

(05-22-2015 07:45 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(05-22-2015 07:42 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I remember before ObamaCare our premiums would go up more than 9.6% a year. Heck one year in the late 90's our premiums when up 16%. This isn't a new phenomena Socratic.

Not for high deductible policies. You might be talking about real insurance, but not the crap that gets passed off as insurance under Obamacare.

Yeah, that's the kicker. High premiums AND high deductibles.

Only complete idiots thought that millions could be added to health insurance rolls and Medicaid and cost increases would be tempered. These type of increases are unavoidable and will only grow exponentially once Obamacare is fully implemented. Wait till this time next year when the 2017 rate increases are proposed.

Complete idiots? Come on. By putting young adults and through federal subsidies yes reasonable people could see that. Why do people continually try to degrade the conversation. We can talk about this and it's relevant.

Everything continues double digit increases except wages. No surprise. Big business and campaign donors for the establishment democrats and republicans are happy. That's all that matters. Congratulations ClintonBushObama. Yeah globalization! New World Order! America's chickens have come home to roost. Phuck the "everyday American", right Hillary? A la mierda lo "cotidiano estadounidense", Jebbie ¿verdad?

(05-22-2015 08:23 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Complete idiots? Come on. By putting young adults and through federal subsidies yes reasonable people could see that. Why do people continually try to degrade the conversation. We can talk about this and it's relevant.

You want me to post the Gruber videos again?

"The stupidity of the American voter"

Gruber was talking directly about the American voters who supported Obamacare. Thats not a conservative calling you stupid. That is Obama's arcitect for Obamacare. In order to get that piech of sh*t passed, he counted on some of us to be stupid. He got his wish.

In many cases, people are better off paying the penalty, I mean tax, no wait...it's really a penalty....nooooo, Supreme Courty-worty sez it's really a tax and self-paying the rest. This stupid government program is textbook making problems worse for most Americans by its unnatural intervention in what should be a private market.

Would have been much better for them if they merely sought to give everyone a "free' catastrophic policy from the market instead of shoving the liberal agenda down everyone's throats with this thing. Just a matter of time, yeah, maybe unfortunately one term of Hilliary to boot, but this program fundamentally will implode of it's own volition, sooner or later.

(05-22-2015 12:25 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  In many cases, people are better off paying the penalty, I mean tax,

For now it probably has been. There were better options out there for those who were forced to the exchanges. Pay the tax, and join some other non-Obamacare compliant option. Far less expensive, and real insurance and healthcare involved.

However, that tax keeps increasing every year. So I dont know when the opt-out would no longer be financially viable.

(05-22-2015 12:29 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(05-22-2015 12:25 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  In many cases, people are better off paying the penalty, I mean tax,

For now it probably has been. There were better options out there for those who were forced to the exchanges. Pay the tax, and join some other non-Obamacare compliant option. Far less expensive, and real insurance and healthcare involved.

However, that tax keeps increasing every year. So I don't know when the opt-out would no longer be financially viable.

Unfortunately, with the way the rates and deductibles and co-pays keep increasing every year, they will never catch up for a lot more people than you'd think.


I don't disagree that something needed to be done in the healthcare and insurance arena. I strongly disagree that ACA is helping most people. It is neither heathcare nor Insurance. It is just putting the money you've earned in a box and sending it to Obama never to be heard from again. That is ridiculous, and I'm not participating.

(05-22-2015 07:42 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I remember before ObamaCare our premiums would go up more than 9.6% a year. Heck one year in the late 90's our premiums when up 16%. This isn't a new phenomena Socratic.

Actually it is. The pre-Obamacare increases for group policies was something closer to 5%. The only policies that really went up by 10% or more were individual policies... and they were going up based on the characteristics of the insured... In other words, your costs went up because they were losing money/you were using more care than you were paying for.

This is another example where something like 70% of the population (those in group policies and those without premiums at all) is seeing their policies go up by more (10% instead of 5%), and something like 10% of the population is seeing them go up, but not by as much (10% instead of 20%). The reason is simply because the differences in the ways the cost increases are distributed have been changed, and not because Obamacare really is controlling any costs.

The BIGGER issue is about to hit with bundled payments.

Let me give you an example... and this is not meant to be a real example, merely representative of the process and the problems... You present to the ER with the flu. Now typically, the flu lasts 3 days for the average person and other than making sure that your immune system is healthy, time is the key component that fixes you. So the ACA/Medicare decides that this 3 day stay for the flu is worth $5,000. That's it for the ER, the hospital, the doctors, the nurse, the kitchen, sanitation, advil, thermometer caps, radiology, bedpans, sheets, air conditioning.... That's it. If you have to stay 5 days, no more money. If you need more tylenol, no more money. If they get you out in 2, they still get $5,000, but again, no more.

Now, what can any of you think of as ways/things that could result from this? Do you think they might prefer 'certain' types of patients and eschew others? What might those types be? How thorough do you think they're going to be, knowing that being thorough doesn't pay a dime more than doing the minimum.

Now, as I said.... this isn't an actual example, but it IS the gyst of 'bundled payments'.... and there are thousands of nuances that attempt to 'solve' all of the problems...

but this is a disaster waiting to happen, especially for rural areas and the least fortunate among us, imo.

I often think about what PJ O'Rourke said:

"If you think health care is expensive now, just wait until it's free".

(05-22-2015 12:25 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  In many cases, people are better off paying the penalty, I mean tax, no wait...it's really a penalty....nooooo, Supreme Courty-worty sez it's really a tax and self-paying the rest. This stupid government program is textbook making problems worse for most Americans by its unnatural intervention in what should be a private market.

Would have been much better for them if they merely sought to give everyone a "free' catastrophic policy from the market instead of shoving the liberal agenda down everyone's throats with this thing. Just a matter of time, yeah, maybe unfortunately one term of Hilliary to boot, but this program fundamentally will implode of it's own volition, sooner or later.

I paid the fine, but gonna have to break down and buy insurance soon because i have a knee that needs a little work.

Cue Dawgital to call BS on this.

My policy was a group policy and ours went up more than 10% many times before Obamacare. I think you guys have selective memory.

(05-23-2015 08:03 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  My policy was a group policy and ours went up more than 10% many times before Obamacare. I think you guys have selective memory.

You had a group catastrophic / high deductible policy prior to Obamacare that went up more than 10%?

I didnt think so....

(05-22-2015 07:28 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(05-22-2015 12:25 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  In many cases, people are better off paying the penalty, I mean tax, no wait...it's really a penalty....nooooo, Supreme Courty-worty sez it's really a tax and self-paying the rest. This stupid government program is textbook making problems worse for most Americans by its unnatural intervention in what should be a private market.

Would have been much better for them if they merely sought to give everyone a "free' catastrophic policy from the market instead of shoving the liberal agenda down everyone's throats with this thing. Just a matter of time, yeah, maybe unfortunately one term of Hilliary to boot, but this program fundamentally will implode of it's own volition, sooner or later.

I paid the fine, but gonna have to break down and buy insurance soon because i have a knee that needs a little work.

This is exactly the reason "preexisting conditions" were a staple of health insurance. A person can skip buying a policy until they need it. That's really a great way to raise others' rates.