(04-20-2015 11:00 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 10:56 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

Quote:I only ask for equal standing for all explanations and viewpoints in any forum.

You think Rice science classes should teach young earth creationism alongside evolution???

Goodness. Not in those classes, obviously. But the topic should be broached in some forum somewhere on campus, assuming there is demand for such inquiry.

C'mon man, now you're just manufacturing absurdities. Get off it.

So you've no objection to it being presented, per se. Then what's it to you if a private university 1000+ miles away is the "some forum somewhere"? We'd be playing their football team once a year, not doing student exchanges.

(04-20-2015 11:02 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 10:59 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  And I never said you said it. I only asked the question.

Nice comeback. "No surprise, coming from you". You don't know me or what I believe.

Did you have a problem with Rice playing Notre Dame last season?

I've seen enough from you over the years to make a pretty good approximation of where you stand. Let's just say that we won't be having drinks anytime soon.

I'm really not cool with Rice playing Notre Dame either, but... Notre Dame is not Liberty. Not by a long shot.

Wow. Just wow.

Losing to Liberty, that would be unappealing. Losing to ODU was bad enough.

Why not invite an established FBS program, or better yet, leave well enough alone? I thought the idea now was add a team only if it improves per-program revenue.

What a strange thread this evolved into!

"The Liberty Half Time Show"

Ahhhh - some meat for the old bones.

Theme from "Barney"...
Theme from "Jurassic Park"…
What else?

(04-21-2015 05:47 AM)Grungy Wrote:  "The Liberty Half Time Show"

Ahhhh - some meat for the old bones.

Theme from "Barney"...
Theme from "Jurassic Park"…
What else?

"Sympathy for the Devil "

(04-21-2015 06:31 AM)Da.Owl Wrote:  

(04-21-2015 05:47 AM)Grungy Wrote:  "The Liberty Half Time Show"

Ahhhh - some meat for the old bones.

Theme from "Barney"...
Theme from "Jurassic Park"…
What else?

"Sympathy for the Devil "

Careful what you wish for. I made most of an arrangement of Sympathy for the Devil a little while ago. Always imagined playing it for Baylor, but if the opportunity presented itself...

- Sympathy for the Devil
- Another Brick in the Wall
- Only the Good Die Young

Yes, yes. Just need to get the MOB some arrangements of truly sacrilegious music from The Book of Mormon and we'll be in business. Hasa diga eebowai!

(04-21-2015 12:14 AM)mrbig Wrote:  What a strange thread this evolved into!

Can you substantiate this statement of yours with proven observable facts or is this just your theory?

(04-20-2015 10:28 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 10:26 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  As an elite secular institution of higher learning, we have to draw the line somewhere. Young-earth creationism being taught at a university at the expense of the theory of evolution seems like a good place to start.

Why?
What relevance does that have to athletic competition?

Because we are a university with the highest of callings ("dedicated to the advancement of liberal and technical learning and the PROGRESS of mankind in letters, science and art") that also fields athletic teams. We are not a football team that happens to be affiliated with a school.
Liberty (I will not add the "U" word) is not an institution of higher learning in any sense. It was developed for the sole purpose of legitimizing the far right-wing political and fundamentalist theocratic ideas of its founders - whose intent was and is to indoctrinate, not educate. By competing with them, we raise that bogus legitimacy to heights they couldn't possibly have ever dreamed of.

I'm very proud of my alma mater, but that's just over the top.

But if so, why begrudge others their basking in our glow? It can only make them better.

(04-21-2015 01:20 PM)Barney Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 10:28 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 10:26 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  As an elite secular institution of higher learning, we have to draw the line somewhere. Young-earth creationism being taught at a university at the expense of the theory of evolution seems like a good place to start.

Why?
What relevance does that have to athletic competition?

Because we are a university with the highest of callings ("dedicated to the advancement of liberal and technical learning and the PROGRESS of mankind in letters, science and art") that also fields athletic teams. We are not a football team that happens to be affiliated with a school.
Liberty (I will not add the "U" word) is not an institution of higher learning in any sense. It was developed for the sole purpose of legitimizing the far right-wing political and fundamentalist theocratic ideas of its founders - whose intent was and is to indoctrinate, not educate. By competing with them, we raise that bogus legitimacy to heights they couldn't possibly have ever dreamed of.

(04-21-2015 01:20 PM)Barney Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 10:28 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 10:26 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  As an elite secular institution of higher learning, we have to draw the line somewhere. Young-earth creationism being taught at a university at the expense of the theory of evolution seems like a good place to start.

Why?
What relevance does that have to athletic competition?

Because we are a university with the highest of callings ("dedicated to the advancement of liberal and technical learning and the PROGRESS of mankind in letters, science and art") that also fields athletic teams. We are not a football team that happens to be affiliated with a school.
Liberty (I will not add the "U" word) is not an institution of higher learning in any sense. It was developed for the sole purpose of legitimizing the far right-wing political and fundamentalist theocratic ideas of its founders - whose intent was and is to indoctrinate, not educate. By competing with them, we raise that bogus legitimacy to heights they couldn't possibly have ever dreamed of.

Preach!

(04-21-2015 01:20 PM)Barney Wrote:  It was developed for the sole purpose of legitimizing the far right-wing political and fundamentalist theocratic ideas of its founders - whose intent was and is to indoctrinate, not educate.

I have little interest in the ideologies of Liberty's founders, but the fact that it's accredited is enough. My preference is for Rice be associated with secular universities, but the kind of thing that I really find objectionable is competing on athletic fields with programs that bring in one-and-done players with no real interest in graduating the players or having players associated with a four year university. To wit, I have a much bigger problem with LaTech than I do with Liberty at this stage.

(04-21-2015 01:20 PM)Barney Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 10:28 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 10:26 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  As an elite secular institution of higher learning, we have to draw the line somewhere. Young-earth creationism being taught at a university at the expense of the theory of evolution seems like a good place to start.

Yes, we should only associate with those schools that mirror our particular viewpoint. But wait, what is Rice's particular viewpoint? If there is one, I object to it.




Why?
What relevance does that have to athletic competition?

Because we are a university with the highest of callings ("dedicated to the advancement of liberal and technical learning and the PROGRESS of mankind in letters, science and art") that also fields athletic teams. We are not a football team that happens to be affiliated with a school.
Liberty (I will not add the "U" word) is not an institution of higher learning in any sense. It was developed for the sole purpose of legitimizing the far right-wing political and fundamentalist theocratic ideas of its founders - whose intent was and is to indoctrinate, not educate. By competing with them, we raise that bogus legitimacy to heights they couldn't possibly have ever dreamed of.

(04-21-2015 05:47 AM)Grungy Wrote:  "The Liberty Half Time Show"

Ahhhh - some meat for the old bones.

Theme from "Barney"...
Theme from "Jurassic Park"…
What else?

Don't you recall the 1987 Arkansas show? (Dang, it's still not up. I thought it was there at one point.) Plenty of irreverence in that one, that got the fundamentalists without a sense of humor all bunched up. Pretty sure Only the Good Die Young was one of the tunes.

And on Halloween, too!

(04-21-2015 01:20 PM)Barney Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 10:28 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 10:26 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  As an elite secular institution of higher learning, we have to draw the line somewhere. Young-earth creationism being taught at a university at the expense of the theory of evolution seems like a good place to start.

Why?
What relevance does that have to athletic competition?

Because we are a university with the highest of callings ("dedicated to the advancement of liberal and technical learning and the PROGRESS of mankind in letters, science and art") that also fields athletic teams. We are not a football team that happens to be affiliated with a school.
Liberty (I will not add the "U" word) is not an institution of higher learning in any sense. It was developed for the sole purpose of legitimizing the far right-wing political and fundamentalist theocratic ideas of its founders - whose intent was and is to indoctrinate, not educate. By competing with them, we raise that bogus legitimacy to heights they couldn't possibly have ever dreamed of.

You're welcome to your beliefs (as am I, and that course just wouldn't fly with me either), but the Rice and Liberty are accredited exactly the same and by the same standards by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools Commission on Colleges (http://www.sacscoc.org/searchResults.asp ). Its Engineering school is accredited by the exact same board as Rice's (ABET).

Interestingly, I couldn't find any true science programs (definitely no degrees, other than the Creation Science minor, one course of which was noted above). Hard to tell what's in what few 1st and 2nd year programs they do offer in biology, etc. Probably not something you would get at Rice in some aspects.

Both institutions meet the same standards for accreditation, which are minimal but not insignificant. And in reality, these people are mostly well-grounded. They can perform just as well in their professional pursuits - I see it every day. They may think I'm misguided, believing in evolution, and some may even think I'm going to Hell because of it, but none of them ever wear it on their sleeve in their interactions with me.

Liberty, for better or for worse, is another up and coming school. It may or may not make sense in CUSA (probably not for me - just further proof of being a rung barely above FCS), but Liberty is a school that is embracing the future (its online education program is huge) and knows where it wants to go. And it apparently believes FBS has to be a part of it. Kinda of like how some around here view UTSA.

(04-21-2015 01:20 PM)Barney Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 10:28 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 10:26 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  As an elite secular institution of higher learning, we have to draw the line somewhere. Young-earth creationism being taught at a university at the expense of the theory of evolution seems like a good place to start.

Why?
What relevance does that have to athletic competition?

Because we are a university with the highest of callings ("dedicated to the advancement of liberal and technical learning and the PROGRESS of mankind in letters, science and art") that also fields athletic teams. We are not a football team that happens to be affiliated with a school.
Liberty (I will not add the "U" word) is not an institution of higher learning in any sense. It was developed for the sole purpose of legitimizing the far right-wing political and fundamentalist theocratic ideas of its founders - whose intent was and is to indoctrinate, not educate. By competing with them, we raise that bogus legitimacy to heights they couldn't possibly have ever dreamed of.

It's been my experience that most university professors indoctrinate their students toward the theory of evolution unless that university is indeed a parochial institution. Liberty may look at Rice people as a bunch of atheist, but who cares?

(04-21-2015 03:40 PM)gsloth Wrote:  ...got the fundamentalists without a sense of humor all bunched up. Pretty sure Only the Good Die Young was one of the tunes.

And on Halloween, too!

I don't know why fundamentalists would object to "Only the Good Die Young", which is one of the most decidedly Protestant songs ever written. It spoofs not Christianity in general but Roman Catholic liturgy and ritual in particular. Dutch Calvinists, Scottish Presbyterians and English Puritans -- the forebears of much of American Christianity -- all would have found much to like in it. What could be more Protestant than that?

People often project onto Christianity an intolerance that doesn't exist. Most Christians may not believe in evolution, but it is in no way a prerequisite for salvation. Take a look at Dr. Vinson's writing for a case in point. http://biologos.org/blog/author/vinson-david

(04-21-2015 04:39 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(04-21-2015 03:40 PM)gsloth Wrote:  ...got the fundamentalists without a sense of humor all bunched up. Pretty sure Only the Good Die Young was one of the tunes.

And on Halloween, too!

I don't know why fundamentalists would object to "Only the Good Die Young", which is one of the most decidedly Protestant songs ever written. It spoofs not Christianity in general but Roman Catholic liturgy and ritual in particular. Dutch Calvinists, Scottish Presbyterians and English Puritans -- the forebears of much of American Christianity -- all would have found much to like in it. What could be more Protestant than that?

I think you're stretching things a bit... (though I agree it parodies Catholicism)

Billy Joel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Joel Wrote:Joel was born to non-observant Jewish parents and considers himself a cultural Jew.
...
During a 2010 interview, Joel reiterated his atheism.

(04-20-2015 10:48 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  Well I guess we should shut down all religious studies classes at Rice as well?

I stand by my original post on the subject. You are entitled to your beliefs and opinions just like those at the schools you belittle. But your intolerance for beliefs and opinions different than yours is sad.

Peace.

+1