(08-12-2014 09:34 AM)PurpleStreamers Wrote:  I agree we're not headed anywhere close to even 25k again as long as we're in FCS, and playoff games (hoping we have them again) are unfortunately going to look like a joke in the new stadium when students are gone for break, but UVA/VT drawing away Virginia fans is no excuse. I hate to even bring it up, but ODU's gonna fill up whatever they build from day one.

I'm curious...define "anywhere close" for us. What number would that be in your mind?

Attendance since the new and improved Bridgeforth opened has been well over 20k, which seems pretty darn close to 25k to me...but then I'm not prone to spouting hyperbolic sh*t on a message board.

Oh, and checking the facts...JMU's avg. attendance was higher than ODU's last season. A friendly wager might be that JMU's avg. attendance in 2014 will once again be higher than ODUs...and will continue to be so until ODU's pie-in-sky new stadium is built.

But frankly, the last thing I'm thinking about when watching the Dukes play FB is what the attendance is at that overgrown commuter college. Honestly, who gives a flying flip about ODU? Are you that insecure?

Our attendance is good, regardless of whether there are 22k or 25k in the stadium. We 'll continue to sell out parents weekend, and homecoming is usually close . We have late season attendance challenges regardless of how well the season goes.

(08-12-2014 09:55 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 09:34 AM)PurpleStreamers Wrote:  I agree we're not headed anywhere close to even 25k again as long as we're in FCS, and playoff games (hoping we have them again) are unfortunately going to look like a joke in the new stadium when students are gone for break, but UVA/VT drawing away Virginia fans is no excuse. I hate to even bring it up, but ODU's gonna fill up whatever they build from day one.

I'm curious...define "anywhere close" for us. What number would that be in your mind?

Attendance since the new and improved Bridgeforth opened has been well over 20k, which seems pretty darn close to 25k to me...but then I'm not prone to spouting hyperbolic sh*t on a message board.

Oh, and checking the facts...JMU's avg. attendance was higher than ODU's last season. A friendly wager might be that JMU's avg. attendance in 2014 will once again be higher than ODUs...and will continue to be so until ODU's pie-in-sky new stadium is built.

But frankly, the last thing I'm thinking about when watching the Dukes play FB is what the attendance is at that overgrown commuter college. Honestly, who gives a flying flip about ODU? Are you that insecure?

Filling 80% capacity is about average for the NCAA; albiet low for 'winning' teams which draw about 88-90% capacity in this study, and top programs average 97% capacity (at the FBS level):

http://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress.c...-football/

Also the fact is as much as we all wish JMU were as popular as we think they should be, our average fans are fair weather fans (quite literally vs Charlotte), so we don't draw the 90%+ capacity crowds like the big boys.

Edit to add: The one problem we have is with PW & HC usually being sell outs the other 3-4 games are averaging only somewhere in the 65-70% capacity which is pretty abysmal, and is likely what PS was thinking about with not being close to being a 25000 number, and I would tend to agree. Heck even PW and HC may be sell outs but the butts in seats often leaves something to be desired.

I agree we don't have the demand necessary to justify building out the other side of the stadium just yet, and we likely won't until we move up and start playing a better home schedule (which ain't happening in FCS). Removing ODU and replacing them with Elon is not a recipe for increased demand. In my view, further expansion is (and should be) entirely dependent on that increased demand.

But my question (and sorry if I missed it) is how much would it cost to build out just the lower deck on the Godwin side? Right now, I just think it looks stupid, and given the location of the TV cameras, that crappy high school bleacher side is all anyone sees. Then later, if we actually need an upper deck on the Godwin side, we could do it.

(08-12-2014 09:18 AM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 08:52 AM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  

(08-11-2014 04:30 PM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  I dont think we will ever have that many honestly. It sucks being between VT and UVA. Their Tradition and ACC standing draws most of our crowd out of Hburg.

Unfortunately, I think you share the same vision as our leadership.

However, ECU (a school that brings almost 50,000 per game) has 4 ACC schools to compete as well as one of the top FCS programs in the country (now a Sun Belt school). They didn't have that attitude of "we can never compete" and today consistently draw one of the largest football crowds in the state.

You're kidding yourself if you think a state like VA and a school like JMU couldn't draw 40,000+ with the appropriate leadership and vision for our athletic program.

Since 1999 VT has been one of the best teams in the Big EAST and ACC. UVA has a very good tradition and still draws a deep crowd out of the Valley. And do you know what JMUs leadership vision is ? ECU also has about 10k more students then JMU. And NC has about one million more people in its state. And after attending JMU games the last 12 years I can't see us getting 25K in the stands 6-7 weekends a season. Sorry

We can't disagree with Hotrod here(bold), nobody seems to know what the JMU administration has planned for JMU athletics, not for lack of thousands of us asking over 3 years.

I've been saying it all along, that the current season's attendance is a product of the previous one or two season's performance. I'm glad that study backed up that claim.
We'll see a boost this year, but it's due to a new coach and the interest it generates. Had Mickey stayed, this year would've averaged 18k.

(08-12-2014 09:50 AM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  When was the last time we had 25K in the place any way?

Last season Albany game 25201

In 2012 Towson 25077.

Winning = sellouts. Add Fbs even if SB (which it won't be) and we are easily selling out at least 2 games a year minimum with 40k seats


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

(08-12-2014 09:18 AM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 08:52 AM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  

(08-11-2014 04:30 PM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  I dont think we will ever have that many honestly. It sucks being between VT and UVA. Their Tradition and ACC standing draws most of our crowd out of Hburg.

Unfortunately, I think you share the same vision as our leadership.

However, ECU (a school that brings almost 50,000 per game) has 4 ACC schools to compete as well as one of the top FCS programs in the country (now a Sun Belt school). They didn't have that attitude of "we can never compete" and today consistently draw one of the largest football crowds in the state.

You're kidding yourself if you think a state like VA and a school like JMU couldn't draw 40,000+ with the appropriate leadership and vision for our athletic program.

Since 1999 VT has been one of the best teams in the Big EAST and ACC. UVA has a very good tradition and still draws a deep crowd out of the Valley. And do you know what JMUs leadership vision is ? ECU also has about 10k more students then JMU. And NC has about one million more people in its state. And after attending JMU games the last 12 years I can't see us getting 25K in the stands 6-7 weekends a season. Sorry

ECU: 21,589
JMU: 19,927

Even if you add grad students (which have more allegiance to their undergrads more than likely) that number grows by 5,000 for ECU and 2,000 for JMU. Hardly an advantage.

NC has a million more people but also has 6 FBS schools to VA's 3. Less competition for people's support...

So aside from just throwing out a bunch of excuses, your numbers do not support your argument.

A successful FBS program at JMU would have the same potential as an ECU. Unfortunately, I don't think we will ever get that shot.

(08-12-2014 04:55 PM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 09:18 AM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 08:52 AM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  

(08-11-2014 04:30 PM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  I dont think we will ever have that many honestly. It sucks being between VT and UVA. Their Tradition and ACC standing draws most of our crowd out of Hburg.

Unfortunately, I think you share the same vision as our leadership.

However, ECU (a school that brings almost 50,000 per game) has 4 ACC schools to compete as well as one of the top FCS programs in the country (now a Sun Belt school). They didn't have that attitude of "we can never compete" and today consistently draw one of the largest football crowds in the state.

You're kidding yourself if you think a state like VA and a school like JMU couldn't draw 40,000+ with the appropriate leadership and vision for our athletic program.

Since 1999 VT has been one of the best teams in the Big EAST and ACC. UVA has a very good tradition and still draws a deep crowd out of the Valley. And do you know what JMUs leadership vision is ? ECU also has about 10k more students then JMU. And NC has about one million more people in its state. And after attending JMU games the last 12 years I can't see us getting 25K in the stands 6-7 weekends a season. Sorry

ECU: 21,589
JMU: 19,927

Even if you add grad students (which have more allegiance to their undergrads more than likely) that number grows by 5,000 for ECU and 2,000 for JMU. Hardly an advantage.

NC has a million more people but also has 6 FBS schools to VA's 3. Less competition for people's support...

So aside from just throwing out a bunch of excuses, your numbers do not support your argument.

A successful FBS program at JMU would have the same potential as an ECU. Unfortunately, I don't think we will ever get that shot.

Yes ECU has 28k to JMUs 20k , to say those extra tickets don't matter , I wouldn't agree. And I'm not making excuses , the NC programs , during my times have not had the success of the VA programs ( I can't count app state as FBS yet).

Dolly, you have done some homework and it is appreciated. Did you happen to see how ECU's Male : Female ratio stacks up? I'm thinking they may be a little closer to an even split, but still favoring the girls.

You are very much appreciated, but I can easily see any similar school to JMU in most categories, would still have a significant FB attendance advantage if there M:F ratio is closer to 50:50 or even weighted towards males.

(08-12-2014 05:45 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  Dolly, you have done some homework and it is appreciated. Did you happen to see how ECU's Male : Female ratio stacks up? I'm thinking they may be a little closer to an even split, but still favoring the girls.

You are very much appreciated, but I can easily see any similar school to JMU in most categories, would still have a significant FB attendance advantage if there M:F ratio is closer to 50:50 or even weighted towards males.

Nope. Very similar to JMU. 59% female 41% male.

http://www.forbes.com/colleges/east-caro...niversity/

(08-12-2014 06:15 PM)atljmualum Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 05:45 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  Dolly, you have done some homework and it is appreciated. Did you happen to see how ECU's Male : Female ratio stacks up? I'm thinking they may be a little closer to an even split, but still favoring the girls.

You are very much appreciated, but I can easily see any similar school to JMU in most categories, would still have a significant FB attendance advantage if there M:F ratio is closer to 50:50 or even weighted towards males.

Nope. Very similar to JMU. 59% female 41% male.

http://www.forbes.com/colleges/east-caro...niversity/

Well then, I'd say Dolly's points are valid. I'm sure ECU didn't get their support overnight, but with a similar thought process we should have parallel results.

I do know from first hand experience that the support they get east of 95 and north of Wilmington is not surpassed by even the mighty Heels. Its a very rural area, but a lot of square miles.

I wonder if we could get Terry to give a few thoughts on the subject? It does sort of kill me knowing that we were once linked together. The same can be said of UConn. Today they both seem so far away with regards to athletic competition.

(08-12-2014 07:42 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 06:15 PM)atljmualum Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 05:45 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  Dolly, you have done some homework and it is appreciated. Did you happen to see how ECU's Male : Female ratio stacks up? I'm thinking they may be a little closer to an even split, but still favoring the girls.

You are very much appreciated, but I can easily see any similar school to JMU in most categories, would still have a significant FB attendance advantage if there M:F ratio is closer to 50:50 or even weighted towards males.

Nope. Very similar to JMU. 59% female 41% male.

http://www.forbes.com/colleges/east-caro...niversity/

Well then, I'd say Dolly's points are valid. I'm sure ECU didn't get their support overnight, but with a similar thought process we should have parallel results.

I do know from first hand experience that the support they get east of 95 and north of Wilmington is not surpassed by even the mighty Heels. Its a very rural area, but a lot of square miles.

I wonder if we could get Terry to give a few thoughts on the subject? It does sort of kill me knowing that we were once linked together. The same can be said of UConn. Today they both seem so far away with regards to athletic competition.

We are comparing a guy going into his senior yr to a guy going into his Junior yr. a four star guy who has been talking to big time media for a while , to a guy who was being interviewed by the breeze and Stoss.........

Hotrod:

ECU has 26,500 students and JMU 21,000. Why are you making the population difference larger than this?

JMU would equal ECU in attendence if we were in the AAC. Alumni love the school and would flock back to H'burg if the teams JMU played were worthy of the trip. Right now, folks come back for the school, friends and a beautiful day in the valley. Football is secondary for most at this time. JMU does a great job of creating an entertaining and enjoyable gameday atmosphere.

(08-12-2014 10:50 AM)91Alum Wrote:  I agree we don't have the demand necessary to justify building out the other side of the stadium just yet, and we likely won't until we move up and start playing a better home schedule (which ain't happening in FCS). Removing ODU and replacing them with Elon is not a recipe for increased demand. In my view, further expansion is (and should be) entirely dependent on that increased demand.

But my question (and sorry if I missed it) is how much would it cost to build out just the lower deck on the Godwin side? Right now, I just think it looks stupid, and given the location of the TV cameras, that crappy high school bleacher side is all anyone sees. Then later, if we actually need an upper deck on the Godwin side, we could do it.

The complete deal (upper and lower) is approx. $45,000,000-$52,000,000. It's my understanding that the increased cost is based on the amount of re-wiring that will need to happen. Quite a bit of the complex wiring for the university is under Godwin.

Based on the above, if only the lower deck is done, it will be approx. $25,000,000 - $35,000,000. This is not a cheap project by any means but it needs to be part of an overall athletic plan.

(08-12-2014 09:18 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  Hotrod:

ECU has 26,500 students and JMU 21,000. Why are you making the population difference larger than this?

JMU would equal ECU in attendence if we were in the AAC. Alumni love the school and would flock back to H'burg if the teams JMU played were worthy of the trip. Right now, folks come back for the school, friends and a beautiful day in the valley. Football is secondary for most at this time. JMU does a great job of creating an entertaining and enjoyable gameday atmosphere.

http://www.ecu.edu/cs-admin/mktg/points_east.cfm

ECU’s service mission and continual commitment to excellence have made the university one of the fastest-growing institutions in the nation. The university boasts a student population of more than 27,000, including more than 21,000 undergraduate students, about 6,000 graduate and doctoral students, and more than 300 medical students. Almost 61 percent of students are females and 39 percent are males. More than 20 percent of students are minorities, and 12 percent are from out of state. The students’ potential, combined with the promise of expanding services such as the East Carolina Heart Institute and the School of Dental Medicine, help ECU make an extraordinary difference in the region and beyond.


And I agree an AAC move would get us more numbers.

You said ECU had 28k and JMU 20K which distorted the numbers 1k up for ECU and 1k down for JMU. The fact is that the undergrad populations at both schools are almost identical. ECU has a larger grad school. While this "rounding" seems small, you were using it to make an argument that is not factually correct.

I visited ECU with my son when we were checking out colleges. I also spent a week there in banking school 25 years ago. I have always felt ECU and JMU were very similar schools. The support ECU gets for football would be mirrored at JMU if our administrations had be more proactive about moving up to FBS two decades ago. There is absolutely no reason for a 21k student university located in the south to not be FBS. IMO, JMU has put too much emphasis over the years on its relationship with W&M and UR both small colleges.

(08-13-2014 07:32 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  You said ECU had 28k and JMU 20K which distorted the numbers 1k up for ECU and 1k down for JMU. The fact is that the undergrad populations at both schools are almost identical. ECU has a larger grad school. While this "rounding" seems small, you were using it to make an argument that is not factually correct.

I visited ECU with my son when we were checking out colleges. I also spent a week there in banking school 25 years ago. I have always felt ECU and JMU were very similar schools. The support ECU gets for football would be mirrored at JMU if our administrations had be more proactive about moving up to FBS two decades ago. There is absolutely no reason for a 21k student university located in the south to not be FBS. IMO, JMU has put too much emphasis over the years on its relationship with W&M and UR both small colleges.

So ECUs website is not factually correct when they state they have more than 27k. My mistake for rounding lol .

(08-13-2014 07:52 AM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 07:32 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  You said ECU had 28k and JMU 20K which distorted the numbers 1k up for ECU and 1k down for JMU. The fact is that the undergrad populations at both schools are almost identical. ECU has a larger grad school. While this "rounding" seems small, you were using it to make an argument that is not factually correct.

I visited ECU with my son when we were checking out colleges. I also spent a week there in banking school 25 years ago. I have always felt ECU and JMU were very similar schools. The support ECU gets for football would be mirrored at JMU if our administrations had be more proactive about moving up to FBS two decades ago. There is absolutely no reason for a 21k student university located in the south to not be FBS. IMO, JMU has put too much emphasis over the years on its relationship with W&M and UR both small colleges.

So ECUs website is not factually correct when they state they have more than 27k. My mistake for rounding lol .

The number WITH ALL STUDENTS (which again, adding in grad students really skews your numbers since those students aligh with their undergrad like I previously stated) is

JMU - 21,727
ECU - 27,386

A difference of 5,659 in fvaor of ECU

Without grad students the difference is 1,662 in favor of ECU

Regardless of how you try to skew the numbers it doesn't account for ECU having double the amount of people in their stadium as JMU does on game days with 5 other FBS schools to compete with including 4 of them being ACC schools.

ANYWAYS, MY POINT IS.........

Some schools like ECU (and ODU) don't accept "can't"

At JMU we seem to live by it...

"We can't get an FBS invite"
"We can't take care of all our sports"
"We can't afford the move"
"We can't find a conference with academic peers"
"We can't find a conference with geographic peers"
"We can't find a conference with [insert excuse]"