It recently came out that Yasser Arafets death was because he was poisoned.

IRA leader Michael Collins died under really mysterious circumstances and some believe he was killed by one of his own bodyguards who was with british intelligence.

It is amazing how little we know about history and the roles that various spy agencies have played.

Michael Collins was killed in an ambush, nothing mysterious about it. A Fianna Fáil upport shot him not far from where he was from near Cork.

The British were his close supporters, alone with Fine Gael. His enemies at the point when he was killed were people who didn't support the partition of the country.

(06-07-2014 09:53 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Michael Collins was killed in an ambush, nothing mysterious about it. A Fianna Fáil upport shot him not far from where he was from near Cork.

The British were his close supporters, alone with Fine Gael. His enemies at the point when he was killed were people who didn't support the partition of the country.

The ambushers fired and in the ensuing gun battle the ambushers started to retreat without any injuries. That is when collins & the soldiers started running after them and when Collins fell. There have been some questions raised about the wound being more consistent with a pistol shooting from behind than a long range rifle. plus other issues with how witness statements varied and proper handling of evidence. total JFK territory there

not saying it was a conspiracy but clearly in the category of "mysterious circumstances"

(06-07-2014 10:36 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(06-07-2014 09:53 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Michael Collins was killed in an ambush, nothing mysterious about it. A Fianna Fáil upport shot him not far from where he was from near Cork.

The British were his close supporters, alone with Fine Gael. His enemies at the point when he was killed were people who didn't support the partition of the country.

The ambushers fired and in the ensuing gun battle the ambushers started to retreat without any injuries. That is when collins & the soldiers started running after them and when Collins fell. There have been some questions raised about the wound being more consistent with a pistol shooting from behind than a long range rifle. plus other issues with how witness statements varied and proper handling of evidence. total JFK territory there

not saying it was a conspiracy but clearly in the category of "mysterious circumstances"

Loved the movie. Liam Neeson, Alan Rickman, I believe Stephen Rea (who was hot after The Crying Game), and lord knows how many great British actors that were in it.

I don't know where you got that. Michael Collins was killed during the fight when he tried to run to cover. The man who actually killed him went on to be a separatist hero of sorts.

I think the proof of it not being suspicious is the fact that nobody stood to gain from his death, most of all Eamon DeValera.

I wouldn't put Collins on the list of suspicious death folks out there.

I'd be willing to bet that most of what we know about history is actually incorrect. History is written by those in charge, and those not in charge have no say in the matter of official records.

What do we not know?

We don't know who Carly Simon was referring to in "You're So Vain."

(06-08-2014 11:20 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I'd be willing to bet that most of what we know about history is actually incorrect. History is written by those in charge, and those not in charge have no say in the matter of official records.

I'd chalk up most of the inaccuracy to the fact that most recorded history started out as verbal.

(06-10-2014 02:24 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(06-08-2014 11:20 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I'd be willing to bet that most of what we know about history is actually incorrect. History is written by those in charge, and those not in charge have no say in the matter of official records.

I'd chalk up most of the inaccuracy to the fact that most recorded history started out as verbal.

Including the Bible.

(06-10-2014 02:35 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-10-2014 02:24 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(06-08-2014 11:20 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I'd be willing to bet that most of what we know about history is actually incorrect. History is written by those in charge, and those not in charge have no say in the matter of official records.

I'd chalk up most of the inaccuracy to the fact that most recorded history started out as verbal.

Including the Bible.

Using The Bible as a history book is a dubious proposition in itself.

(06-10-2014 02:48 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(06-10-2014 02:35 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-10-2014 02:24 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(06-08-2014 11:20 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I'd be willing to bet that most of what we know about history is actually incorrect. History is written by those in charge, and those not in charge have no say in the matter of official records.

I'd chalk up most of the inaccuracy to the fact that most recorded history started out as verbal.

Including the Bible.

Using The Bible as a history book is a dubious proposition in itself.

That hasn't stopped Creationists and other similarly ignorant Christian groups from thinking that everything in that book is the literal truth.

(06-10-2014 02:58 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-10-2014 02:48 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(06-10-2014 02:35 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-10-2014 02:24 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(06-08-2014 11:20 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I'd be willing to bet that most of what we know about history is actually incorrect. History is written by those in charge, and those not in charge have no say in the matter of official records.

I'd chalk up most of the inaccuracy to the fact that most recorded history started out as verbal.

Including the Bible.

Using The Bible as a history book is a dubious proposition in itself.

That hasn't stopped Creationists and other similarly ignorant Christian groups from thinking that everything in that book is the literal truth.

I was just talking about this with my wife last Sunday. She dragged me to the church of her youth and it reminded me why I tend to say out of such places these days. The congregation believed that the KJV essentially was handed down by God himself and is literal truth. Its hard to get even Christians to acknowledge the basic historic truth about the creation of the Bible. to say nothing about the facts that the books' sole purpose is (if you believe) a guidebook for the salvation of your sole.

It's amazing how stupid people can be. Just look at the number of Bible versions published in England alone. And then think how many prior versions there were, each one of 'em different.

(06-07-2014 08:46 PM)john01992 Wrote:  It is amazing how little we know about history and the roles that various spy agencies have played.

I'm actually amazed at how much we do know or can find...through scholarly sources(not directed at you, speaking in general). Sometimes it just takes a lot of digging.

History is an enormous subject, many facts have been lost or recorded wrong or by the victors.

(06-10-2014 09:51 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  What do we not know?

We don't know who Carly Simon was referring to in "You're So Vain."

Roone Arledge knows.

(06-12-2014 04:28 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(06-10-2014 09:51 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  What do we not know?

We don't know who Carly Simon was referring to in "You're So Vain."

Roone Arledge knows.

Not any more.

(06-11-2014 12:21 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  History is an enormous subject, many facts have been lost or recorded wrong or by the victors.

There were 253 books edited out of the Bible to create the King James Bible. That includes the Book of Eve, which was removed because it might undermine the superiority of men.

(06-13-2014 12:20 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 12:21 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  History is an enormous subject, many facts have been lost or recorded wrong or by the victors.

There were 253 books edited out of the Bible to create the King James Bible. That includes the Book of Eve, which was removed because it might undermine the superiority of men.

I have to imagine that someone, somewhere, maybe The Queen, the Getty's, the Rothschilds, the Vatican or Colonel Sanders (before he went tits up) has all these books.

(06-13-2014 11:40 AM)UofM_Tiger Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 04:28 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(06-10-2014 09:51 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  What do we not know?

We don't know who Carly Simon was referring to in "You're So Vain."

Roone Arledge knows.

Not any more.

Oops.