(04-22-2014 09:52 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  UNC fans have tried to say that UNC and Clemson are rivals despite a very similar record.

Look more closely Kaplony.....did you see Clemson mentioned in Carolina's top 4?
Wishing and hoping on your part I suppose.

It now seems a given that the ACC proposal to de-regulate the way conferences larger than 11 may schedule and decide who plays in a Championship Game is going to pass. The Big 12 is co-sponsor, and the change would allow it to hold a Championship with just 10 teams, or 11 if they add 1.

For us, and I think for the Pac and Big Ten, the main issue is freedom to schedule other than based on 2 divisions that each play an annual round robin. It would mean we schedule with no divisions, cutting back the number of annual rivals so that everyone is played often.

In case you haven't thought about the problem, as the system now operates, we all will play Notre Dame more often than we play full members of ACC football who are not annual rivals. UNC, for example, will play ND more often than we play FSU and Clemson.

Going 8-10 years between meetings in conference games is not a good thing. And this change in NCAA regulations will allow us to make things better. It will keep the entire league refreshed, with new teams rotating on the ACC schedule at least every 2 years.

All signs indicate that we are keeping an 8 game conference schedule. If we each have 3 annual rivals, we will play the other 10 teams in the conference 2 times every 4 years. We will see every team at least twice every 4 years.

That seems to me to be close to ideal. None of us have more than 3 teams we must play each year. Each of us now plays annual games against 2 or 3 schools that our fans would not mind seeing less often, and each of us have fans who would greatly prefer to play a team or two or three more often than the old NCAA rules allow.

Below is my list of 3 annual rivals for each full member of ACC football. It starts with the MUST PLAY games, based on history(like The South's Oldest Rivalry and GT-Dook) and the need to maximize TV interests and deal with SEC rivalries (which is the reason I have FSU playing GT annually), and then taking account of Thanksgiving weekend season ending games.

All teams should play every Thanksgiving weekend so no one ever plays in the Championship after a bye week. We have 4 teams that will end the season versus SEC in-state rivals (FSU, GT, Clemson, and Louisville). UVA and VT must end the season. So must the 4 NC schools, though it might be interesting to have that rotate, so that in some years UNC closes with Dook while MooU closes with Wake, and in other years UNC closes with MooU while Dook closes with Wake.

I think that the 3 schools north of the Mason-Dixon line should play each other annually as part of maximizing northern interest in ACC football.

That leaves 4 teams who need an annual season ending game: Miami, Pitt, Syracuse, and BC. BC and Cuse, as border state schools, probably should close the season, which would leave Miami closing with Pitt.

With all that in mind, here is my list:

BC - Syracuse, Pitt, Wake
Syracuse - BC, Pitt, Louisville
Pitt - BC, Syracuse, Miami
Louisville - VT, Syracuse, UVA
UVA - UNC, VT, Louisville
VT - UVA, Louisville, Miami
UNC - UVA, Dook, MooU
Dook - UNC, Wake, GT
MooU - UNC, Wake, Clemson
Wake - Dook, MooU, BC
Clemson - GT, FSU, MooU
GT - Clemson, FSU, Dook
FSU - Miami, Clemson, GT
Miami - FSU, Pitt, VT

WoadBlue I like that list and it works perfect for the closing weekend games but I'm not sure if UVA & VT would be thrilled to have Louisville as a Rival. If they could live with it I think this setup is optimal for all the other teams.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

Give Louisville Syracuse, Pitt, and BC.

(04-23-2014 08:06 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 09:52 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  UNC fans have tried to say that UNC and Clemson are rivals despite a very similar record.

Look more closely Kaplony.....did you see Clemson mentioned in Carolina's top 4?
Wishing and hoping on your part I suppose.

Plenty of UNC fans have bemoaned the expanded ACC costing them their "rivalry" game with Clemson.

(04-23-2014 09:01 AM)WoadBlue Wrote:  It now seems a given that the ACC proposal to de-regulate the way conferences larger than 11 may schedule and decide who plays in a Championship Game is going to pass. The Big 12 is co-sponsor, and the change would allow it to hold a Championship with just 10 teams, or 11 if they add 1.

For us, and I think for the Pac and Big Ten, the main issue is freedom to schedule other than based on 2 divisions that each play an annual round robin. It would mean we schedule with no divisions, cutting back the number of annual rivals so that everyone is played often.

In case you haven't thought about the problem, as the system now operates, we all will play Notre Dame more often than we play full members of ACC football who are not annual rivals. UNC, for example, will play ND more often than we play FSU and Clemson.

Going 8-10 years between meetings in conference games is not a good thing. And this change in NCAA regulations will allow us to make things better. It will keep the entire league refreshed, with new teams rotating on the ACC schedule at least every 2 years.

All signs indicate that we are keeping an 8 game conference schedule. If we each have 3 annual rivals, we will play the other 10 teams in the conference 2 times every 4 years. We will see every team at least twice every 4 years.

That seems to me to be close to ideal. None of us have more than 3 teams we must play each year. Each of us now plays annual games against 2 or 3 schools that our fans would not mind seeing less often, and each of us have fans who would greatly prefer to play a team or two or three more often than the old NCAA rules allow.

Below is my list of 3 annual rivals for each full member of ACC football. It starts with the MUST PLAY games, based on history(like The South's Oldest Rivalry and GT-Dook) and the need to maximize TV interests and deal with SEC rivalries (which is the reason I have FSU playing GT annually), and then taking account of Thanksgiving weekend season ending games.

All teams should play every Thanksgiving weekend so no one ever plays in the Championship after a bye week. We have 4 teams that will end the season versus SEC in-state rivals (FSU, GT, Clemson, and Louisville). UVA and VT must end the season. So must the 4 NC schools, though it might be interesting to have that rotate, so that in some years UNC closes with Dook while MooU closes with Wake, and in other years UNC closes with MooU while Dook closes with Wake.

I think that the 3 schools north of the Mason-Dixon line should play each other annually as part of maximizing northern interest in ACC football.

That leaves 4 teams who need an annual season ending game: Miami, Pitt, Syracuse, and BC. BC and Cuse, as border state schools, probably should close the season, which would leave Miami closing with Pitt.

With all that in mind, here is my list:

BC - Syracuse, Pitt, Wake
Syracuse - BC, Pitt, Louisville
Pitt - BC, Syracuse, Miami
Louisville - VT, Syracuse, UVA
UVA - UNC, VT, Louisville
VT - UVA, Louisville, Miami
UNC - UVA, Dook, MooU
Dook - UNC, Wake, GT
MooU - UNC, Wake, Clemson
Wake - Dook, MooU, BC
Clemson - GT, FSU, MooU
GT - Clemson, FSU, Dook
FSU - Miami, Clemson, GT
Miami - FSU, Pitt, VT

Good to hear from you again Woad. As always, thanks for your insight.

Wake would prefer
1. NC State
2. Duke
3. UNC

But UVa will get the Heels over us, so BC is fine for the third slot and better than most.

(04-23-2014 07:03 PM)XLance Wrote:  Good to hear from you again Woad. As always, thanks for your insight.

For once we agree. Good to see Woad post here as he is the only UNC poster on any board I have ever seen who has a realistic view on football matters.

I looked up GT-Duke's history after Woad mentioned that's a matchup to maintain and I didn't realize they had played every year since 1933 even through all the conference changing. After realizing that I agree that should be maintained if possible.

(04-23-2014 11:57 PM)MKPitt Wrote:  I looked up GT-Duke's history after Woad mentioned that's a matchup to maintain and I didn't realize they had played every year since 1933 even through all the conference changing. After realizing that I agree that should be maintained if possible.

Dook is the only ACC school with which GT has a really old history. I think GT would take playing Dook annually over FSU, because that history means a good deal to GT fans.

(04-24-2014 08:06 AM)WoadBlue Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 11:57 PM)MKPitt Wrote:  I looked up GT-Duke's history after Woad mentioned that's a matchup to maintain and I didn't realize they had played every year since 1933 even through all the conference changing. After realizing that I agree that should be maintained if possible.

Dook is the only ACC school with which GT has a really old history. I think GT would take playing Dook annually over FSU, because that history means a good deal to GT fans.

Well. that and because Duke isn't as hard to beat.

(04-23-2014 11:46 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 07:03 PM)XLance Wrote:  Good to hear from you again Woad. As always, thanks for your insight.

For once we agree. Good to see Woad post here as he is the only UNC poster on any board I have ever seen who has a realistic view on football matters.

Surely not the only one.

What I bring that is different is growing up in SEC country surrounded by SEC fans and SEC football. I see things naturally that many who grew up in NC or VA and are UNC or Dook or UVA fans have great trouble imagining.

The ACC does have handicaps. But the handicaps are central to why I prefer the ACC, why I know that college football needs the ACC to be successful in football too. So I think we have to be flexible in working with our handicaps.

3+5 (5) scheduling - meaning 3 annual rivalries and 2 groups of 5 that rotate to = 8 league games per year - will go a very long way toward overcoming scheduling handicaps by making almost everything new over and over.

If you have a larger football fan base, playing Wake or Dook every year will get boring and become drudgery. If you are fully Deep South, playing BC or Cuse and maybe Pitt every year will become drudgery.

Almost all of us have a couple of league games we now play annually that we would love to dump. There is no way to 'fix' the divisions to end that problem.

But we can ameliorate the problems by rotating constantly. I would not want to play Syracuse every year and certainly would not want to play at Syracuse every other year. But 1 trip to the Carrier Dome every 4 years can be a nice new experience. At the least, it does not happen often enough to become drudgery.

Add to that making certain the Championship Game always has the 2nd best team, and you have set up ACC football very well for the long haul.

(04-22-2014 03:59 PM)XLance Wrote:  These are the rivals the ACC will assign to Carolina

UVa
Dook
NC State

These are the rivals that we would prefer to play

UVa
Dook
Georgia Tech

If we could pick 4 instead of three we would add Wake Forest.

Something tells me that the "we" of "we would prefer to play" does not consist of all UNC fans, or even most UNC fans. I really doubt it would be the choice of UNC coaches.

I could understand Wake Forest. You beat them a lot. But why Georgia Tech? Because you think if you play them often enough, eventually you will figure out how to beat them? Someone here said it's because UNC recruits heavily in Georgia. Does it help that recruiting that Carolina hasn't won in Atlanta since Mack Brown left? And has only won twice in Chapel Hill in that time?

And wouldn't it hurt recruiting in North Carolina if it appears that you are ducking NC State?

(04-24-2014 08:52 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 03:59 PM)XLance Wrote:  These are the rivals the ACC will assign to Carolina

UVa
Dook
NC State

These are the rivals that we would prefer to play

UVa
Dook
Georgia Tech

If we could pick 4 instead of three we would add Wake Forest.

Something tells me that the "we" of "we would prefer to play" does not consist of all UNC fans, or even most UNC fans. I really doubt it would be the choice of UNC coaches.

I could understand Wake Forest. You beat them a lot. But why Georgia Tech? Because you think if you play them often enough, eventually you will figure out how to beat them? Someone here said it's because UNC recruits heavily in Georgia. Does it help that recruiting that Carolina hasn't won in Atlanta since Mack Brown left? And has only won twice in Chapel Hill in that time?

And wouldn't it hurt recruiting in North Carolina if it appears that you are ducking NC State?

Wake is because the 1st game was in 1888 and we have played them more than we have played MooU.

GT is because the Atlanta TV market has a very large number of UNC alums.

A desire to drop Moo is because increasingly we have been forced to see that the average Wuffie is as nuts and vicious as the average WVU fan. At some point, you just want to get away from such people.

(04-24-2014 09:12 AM)WoadBlue Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 08:52 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 03:59 PM)XLance Wrote:  These are the rivals the ACC will assign to Carolina

UVa
Dook
NC State

These are the rivals that we would prefer to play

UVa
Dook
Georgia Tech

If we could pick 4 instead of three we would add Wake Forest.

Something tells me that the "we" of "we would prefer to play" does not consist of all UNC fans, or even most UNC fans. I really doubt it would be the choice of UNC coaches.

I could understand Wake Forest. You beat them a lot. But why Georgia Tech? Because you think if you play them often enough, eventually you will figure out how to beat them? Someone here said it's because UNC recruits heavily in Georgia. Does it help that recruiting that Carolina hasn't won in Atlanta since Mack Brown left? And has only won twice in Chapel Hill in that time?

And wouldn't it hurt recruiting in North Carolina if it appears that you are ducking NC State?

Wake is because the 1st game was in 1888 and we have played them more than we have played MooU.

GT is because the Atlanta TV market has a very large number of UNC alums.

A desire to drop Moo is because increasingly we have been forced to see that the average Wuffie is as nuts and vicious as the average WVU fan. At some point, you just want to get away from such people.

See, I think that hatred is what makes it fun. WVU fans are awful as everyone knows but that's what makes beating them so much more fun. They are delusional and unless Pitt plays them every year they can say whatever they want. At least when Pitt played them annually they had the chance to ruin their season. 2007 was incredible when Pitt ended WVU's national championship season. Losing PSU and now WVU made me realize that football seasons are hollow unless you're playing your hated rivals.

(04-24-2014 09:12 AM)WoadBlue Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 08:52 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 03:59 PM)XLance Wrote:  These are the rivals the ACC will assign to Carolina

UVa
Dook
NC State

These are the rivals that we would prefer to play

UVa
Dook
Georgia Tech

If we could pick 4 instead of three we would add Wake Forest.

Something tells me that the "we" of "we would prefer to play" does not consist of all UNC fans, or even most UNC fans. I really doubt it would be the choice of UNC coaches.

I could understand Wake Forest. You beat them a lot. But why Georgia Tech? Because you think if you play them often enough, eventually you will figure out how to beat them? Someone here said it's because UNC recruits heavily in Georgia. Does it help that recruiting that Carolina hasn't won in Atlanta since Mack Brown left? And has only won twice in Chapel Hill in that time?

And wouldn't it hurt recruiting in North Carolina if it appears that you are ducking NC State?

Wake is because the 1st game was in 1888 and we have played them more than we have played MooU.

GT is because the Atlanta TV market has a very large number of UNC alums.

A desire to drop Moo is because increasingly we have been forced to see that the average Wuffie is as nuts and vicious as the average WVU fan. At some point, you just want to get away from such people.

At first I thought you were saying that just to prove that Kaplony was wrong in describing you as a rare reasonable Carolina fan. Then it occurred to me that he probably shares your opinion of NC State.

(04-24-2014 10:23 AM)MKPitt Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 09:12 AM)WoadBlue Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 08:52 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 03:59 PM)XLance Wrote:  These are the rivals the ACC will assign to Carolina

UVa
Dook
NC State

These are the rivals that we would prefer to play

UVa
Dook
Georgia Tech

If we could pick 4 instead of three we would add Wake Forest.

Something tells me that the "we" of "we would prefer to play" does not consist of all UNC fans, or even most UNC fans. I really doubt it would be the choice of UNC coaches.

I could understand Wake Forest. You beat them a lot. But why Georgia Tech? Because you think if you play them often enough, eventually you will figure out how to beat them? Someone here said it's because UNC recruits heavily in Georgia. Does it help that recruiting that Carolina hasn't won in Atlanta since Mack Brown left? And has only won twice in Chapel Hill in that time?

And wouldn't it hurt recruiting in North Carolina if it appears that you are ducking NC State?

Wake is because the 1st game was in 1888 and we have played them more than we have played MooU.

GT is because the Atlanta TV market has a very large number of UNC alums.

A desire to drop Moo is because increasingly we have been forced to see that the average Wuffie is as nuts and vicious as the average WVU fan. At some point, you just want to get away from such people.

See, I think that hatred is what makes it fun. WVU fans are awful as everyone knows but that's what makes beating them so much more fun. They are delusional and unless Pitt plays them every year they can say whatever they want. At least when Pitt played them annually they had the chance to ruin their season. 2007 was incredible when Pitt ended WVU's national championship season. Losing PSU and now WVU made me realize that football seasons are hollow unless you're playing your hated rivals.

I hated Pitt that year for beating WV and knocking them out of the national championship game. The BE was reeling then and it needed someone to represent it in the NC game. Now as I reflect back on that Brawl, and the way that many WV fans have behaved the last few years along with the WV administration bad mojo, I love Pitt for crashing their hopes and dreams.

(04-24-2014 10:23 AM)MKPitt Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 09:12 AM)WoadBlue Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 08:52 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 03:59 PM)XLance Wrote:  These are the rivals the ACC will assign to Carolina

UVa
Dook
NC State

These are the rivals that we would prefer to play

UVa
Dook
Georgia Tech

If we could pick 4 instead of three we would add Wake Forest.

Something tells me that the "we" of "we would prefer to play" does not consist of all UNC fans, or even most UNC fans. I really doubt it would be the choice of UNC coaches.

I could understand Wake Forest. You beat them a lot. But why Georgia Tech? Because you think if you play them often enough, eventually you will figure out how to beat them? Someone here said it's because UNC recruits heavily in Georgia. Does it help that recruiting that Carolina hasn't won in Atlanta since Mack Brown left? And has only won twice in Chapel Hill in that time?

And wouldn't it hurt recruiting in North Carolina if it appears that you are ducking NC State?

Wake is because the 1st game was in 1888 and we have played them more than we have played MooU.

GT is because the Atlanta TV market has a very large number of UNC alums.

A desire to drop Moo is because increasingly we have been forced to see that the average Wuffie is as nuts and vicious as the average WVU fan. At some point, you just want to get away from such people.

See, I think that hatred is what makes it fun. WVU fans are awful as everyone knows but that's what makes beating them so much more fun. They are delusional and unless Pitt plays them every year they can say whatever they want. At least when Pitt played them annually they had the chance to ruin their season. 2007 was incredible when Pitt ended WVU's national championship season. Losing PSU and now WVU made me realize that football seasons are hollow unless you're playing your hated rivals.

A State fan's passion is fueled by hatred (mostly for Carolina) , while most other fan's passion is the result of the love for their school.
I don't know anything about WVU fans, but they couldn't spew any more venom than a State fan. For a while it's flattering to be despised I suppose, but after a while one really gets tired of having to put up with that **** all of the time. That is NOT fun. You will learn. After a while you might even gain a new respect for WVU and their fans and move them off of the bottom of your list.

(04-24-2014 10:45 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 09:12 AM)WoadBlue Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 08:52 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 03:59 PM)XLance Wrote:  These are the rivals the ACC will assign to Carolina

UVa
Dook
NC State

These are the rivals that we would prefer to play

UVa
Dook
Georgia Tech

If we could pick 4 instead of three we would add Wake Forest.

Something tells me that the "we" of "we would prefer to play" does not consist of all UNC fans, or even most UNC fans. I really doubt it would be the choice of UNC coaches.

I could understand Wake Forest. You beat them a lot. But why Georgia Tech? Because you think if you play them often enough, eventually you will figure out how to beat them? Someone here said it's because UNC recruits heavily in Georgia. Does it help that recruiting that Carolina hasn't won in Atlanta since Mack Brown left? And has only won twice in Chapel Hill in that time?

And wouldn't it hurt recruiting in North Carolina if it appears that you are ducking NC State?

Wake is because the 1st game was in 1888 and we have played them more than we have played MooU.

GT is because the Atlanta TV market has a very large number of UNC alums.

A desire to drop Moo is because increasingly we have been forced to see that the average Wuffie is as nuts and vicious as the average WVU fan. At some point, you just want to get away from such people.

At first I thought you were saying that just to prove that Kaplony was wrong in describing you as a rare reasonable Carolina fan. Then it occurred to me that he probably shares your opinion of NC State.

If he knows many Wuffies and he has decent sense, his view of Moo fans is basically the same as mine.

I think you will find that going forward, many UNC fans will move to a position similar to mine: so revolted that we would prefer to never have to deal with NCSU again. I have despised the SEC longer than the internet has existed, and I have a long history of promoting the ACC as what conferences should be, because it is not all huge state schools. But now I would support UNC going to the SEC, as long as UVA and Dook came along, especially for our non-revenue sports.

(04-24-2014 03:23 PM)WoadBlue Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 10:45 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 09:12 AM)WoadBlue Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 08:52 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 03:59 PM)XLance Wrote:  These are the rivals the ACC will assign to Carolina

UVa
Dook
NC State

These are the rivals that we would prefer to play

UVa
Dook
Georgia Tech

If we could pick 4 instead of three we would add Wake Forest.

Something tells me that the "we" of "we would prefer to play" does not consist of all UNC fans, or even most UNC fans. I really doubt it would be the choice of UNC coaches.

I could understand Wake Forest. You beat them a lot. But why Georgia Tech? Because you think if you play them often enough, eventually you will figure out how to beat them? Someone here said it's because UNC recruits heavily in Georgia. Does it help that recruiting that Carolina hasn't won in Atlanta since Mack Brown left? And has only won twice in Chapel Hill in that time?

And wouldn't it hurt recruiting in North Carolina if it appears that you are ducking NC State?

Wake is because the 1st game was in 1888 and we have played them more than we have played MooU.

GT is because the Atlanta TV market has a very large number of UNC alums.

A desire to drop Moo is because increasingly we have been forced to see that the average Wuffie is as nuts and vicious as the average WVU fan. At some point, you just want to get away from such people.

At first I thought you were saying that just to prove that Kaplony was wrong in describing you as a rare reasonable Carolina fan. Then it occurred to me that he probably shares your opinion of NC State.

If he knows many Wuffies and he has decent sense, his view of Moo fans is basically the same as mine.

I think you will find that going forward, many UNC fans will move to a position similar to mine: so revolted that we would prefer to never have to deal with NCSU again. I have despised the SEC longer than the internet has existed, and I have a long history of promoting the ACC as what conferences should be, because it is not all huge state schools. But now I would support UNC going to the SEC, as long as UVA and Dook came along, especially for our non-revenue sports.

Why not just ship off NC State? We could trade them for Vanderbilt... or my personal choice: Auburn!