(04-06-2014 01:59 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The private system failed for millions of Americans.

And this system is failing for all those who have to pay more $$$ for worse coverage and less options. Obama originally said that there were over 40 million people without insurance but calls selling only 7 million Obamacare policies a success. The numbers for Obamacare are starting to fall apart. And just wait until the illegals find a way to get in and the bleeding hearts who will let them.

(04-06-2014 03:21 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:15 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 02:11 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  It is a damn good thing that this whole ACA debacle can be repealed with a simple majority in the senate. Thank you dirty harry for opening that door.

Veto

A republican president won't veto it.

It can't be repealed by a simple majority in the senate. The earliest a repeal bill would have a change of going through both houses and be placed on the President's desk and signed would be some time in2017.

(04-06-2014 03:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:21 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:15 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 02:11 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  It is a damn good thing that this whole ACA debacle can be repealed with a simple majority in the senate. Thank you dirty harry for opening that door.

Veto

A republican president won't veto it.

It can't be repealed by a simple majority in the senate. The earliest a repeal bill would have a change of going through both houses and be placed on the President's desk and signed would be some time in2017.

Why couldn't a republican president just do the executive order things his first day in office in 2017 and bypass Congress all together? If Obama can change the law over 30 times then surely another president can change it once.

(04-06-2014 03:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:21 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:15 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 02:11 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  It is a damn good thing that this whole ACA debacle can be repealed with a simple majority in the senate. Thank you dirty harry for opening that door.

Veto

A republican president won't veto it.

It can't be repealed by a simple majority in the senate. The earliest a repeal bill would have a change of going through both houses and be placed on the President's desk and signed would be some time in2017.

Dirty Harry gave us the nuclear option

(04-06-2014 01:56 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 01:47 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 12:27 PM)pharaoh0 Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 12:24 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 11:49 AM)GoodOwl Wrote:  and never will. Eat it Obama.

Good for you. I hope your health remains good and you have no accidents. If you do I hope you have plenty of savings to pay your medical bills.

Nah, he can just sign up when stuff happens. No pre-existing conditions...remember.

You can rake up a lot of bills between then and January 1st of the next year. You can't just sign up anytime unless you have a life changing event like lose of a job, marriage, divorce etc.

I didn't bother with that argument. But he's just one injury/illness from losing everything. But most people with assets to protect will have insurance, so there's probably not much for him to risk.

Do you people even read the bs your fearless leader puts out there. I know it changes day by day, but he can still get covered through certain marketplace plans, medicaid, or he can say he tried to get it but the system didn't work.

(04-06-2014 03:28 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 01:59 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The private system failed for millions of Americans.

And this system is failing for all those who have to pay more $$$ for worse coverage and less options. Obama originally said that there were over 40 million people without insurance but calls selling only 7 million Obamacare policies a success. The numbers for Obamacare are starting to fall apart. And just wait until the illegals find a way to get in and the bleeding hearts who will let them.

What is a success is reaching and surpassing first year projections for the exchange. It is just one part of determining success or failure of the ACA. Obviously getting the previously uninsured covered is a major objective and the first year seems to have moved the needle in the positive direction. If only 2.5 million of the exchange QHP's are formerly uninsured, 1 million of the off exchange are formerly uninsured and there are only 7 million expanded Medicaid we are over 10 million. Those are conservative estimations and in all likelihood the number will be significantly higher. Then there are all the people that had policies that didn't cover pre existing conditions and now they do. There are the 1.6 to 3.1 million sub26ers that are now covered. There are the people with long term medical conditions that were nearing their yearly and/or lifetime max on coverage and now there is no max. Let's don't forget the canceled policies that occur each year that have nothing to do with the ACA that were not canceled this year because of the ACA. There are also the preventive and diagnostic tests that have no copay that just might save a few people's lives this year.

Things are getting better whether the detractors are willing to accept that fact or not.

(04-06-2014 03:35 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:21 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:15 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 02:11 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  It is a damn good thing that this whole ACA debacle can be repealed with a simple majority in the senate. Thank you dirty harry for opening that door.

Veto

A republican president won't veto it.

It can't be repealed by a simple majority in the senate. The earliest a repeal bill would have a change of going through both houses and be placed on the President's desk and signed would be some time in2017.

Why couldn't a republican president just do the executive order things his first day in office in 2017 and bypass Congress all together? If Obama can change the law over 30 times then surely another president can change it once.

You will just have to read up on you constitutional law. The executive branch has the authority is make adjustments in order to carry out the law. It doesn't have authority to repeal it.

(04-06-2014 03:57 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:35 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:21 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:15 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Veto

A republican president won't veto it.

It can't be repealed by a simple majority in the senate. The earliest a repeal bill would have a change of going through both houses and be placed on the President's desk and signed would be some time in2017.

Why couldn't a republican president just do the executive order things his first day in office in 2017 and bypass Congress all together? If Obama can change the law over 30 times then surely another president can change it once.

You will just have to read up on you constitutional law. The executive branch has the authority is make adjustments in order to carry out the law. It doesn't have authority to repeal it.

As Obama has shown us, the prez has the authority to not enforce it. Thank Zero for showing the way to circumvent the constitution. Thank Reid for showing the way to repeal it.

(04-06-2014 03:44 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:21 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:15 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 02:11 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  It is a damn good thing that this whole ACA debacle can be repealed with a simple majority in the senate. Thank you dirty harry for opening that door.

Veto

A republican president won't veto it.

It can't be repealed by a simple majority in the senate. The earliest a repeal bill would have a change of going through both houses and be placed on the President's desk and signed would be some time in2017.

Dirty Harry gave us the nuclear option

The "nuclear option" is getting something through the senate. That is just one step. School House rock does an excellent job in explaining how a bill becomes a law. Check it out on you tube.

(04-06-2014 03:15 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 02:11 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  It is a damn good thing that this whole ACA debacle can be repealed with a simple majority in the senate. Thank you dirty harry for opening that door.

Veto

after the pasting that the dems are about to take in the midterms, I wouldn't be surprised if enough of the dems that survived defected to the repeal/replace side. Enough to override a veto.

sooner or later, dems are going to realize the Obama is in it for Obama, and couldn't possibly care less how many of them get slaughtered for his law, which is his sole achievement for his place on mt Rushmore.

(04-06-2014 04:03 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:44 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:21 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:15 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Veto

A republican president won't veto it.

It can't be repealed by a simple majority in the senate. The earliest a repeal bill would have a change of going through both houses and be placed on the President's desk and signed would be some time in2017.

Dirty Harry gave us the nuclear option

The "nuclear option" is getting something through the senate. That is just one step. School House rock does an excellent job in explaining how a bill becomes a law. Check it out on you tube.

The nuclear option means that the minority party might as well stay home and not even show up. Just like it is now for the Republicans. Changing over 200 years of senate procedure. Thanks Dirty Harry. The you tube was before the nuclear Reid.

(04-06-2014 04:06 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:15 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 02:11 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  It is a damn good thing that this whole ACA debacle can be repealed with a simple majority in the senate. Thank you dirty harry for opening that door.

Veto

after the pasting that the dems are about to take in the midterms, I wouldn't be surprised if enough of the dems that survived defected to the repeal/replace side. Enough to override a veto.

sooner or later, dems are going to realize the Obama is in it for Obama, and couldn't possibly care less how many of them get slaughtered for his law, which is his sole achievement for his place on mt Rushmore.

I'm not expecting much going the Democrats way in the mid terms, but I'm not sure that in 6 or 7 months the ACA is going to be a major issue.

(04-06-2014 04:09 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 04:03 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:44 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:21 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  A republican president won't veto it.

It can't be repealed by a simple majority in the senate. The earliest a repeal bill would have a change of going through both houses and be placed on the President's desk and signed would be some time in2017.

Dirty Harry gave us the nuclear option

The "nuclear option" is getting something through the senate. That is just one step. School House rock does an excellent job in explaining how a bill becomes a law. Check it out on you tube.

The nuclear option means that the minority party might as well stay home and not even show up. Just like it is now for the Republicans. Changing over 200 years of senate procedure. Thanks Dirty Harry. The you tube was before the nuclear Reid.

The steps to turn a bill into a law haven't changed. I'm sure you know that.

(04-06-2014 03:57 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:35 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:21 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:15 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Veto

A republican president won't veto it.

It can't be repealed by a simple majority in the senate. The earliest a repeal bill would have a change of going through both houses and be placed on the President's desk and signed would be some time in2017.

Why couldn't a republican president just do the executive order things his first day in office in 2017 and bypass Congress all together? If Obama can change the law over 30 times then surely another president can change it once.

You will just have to read up on you constitutional law. The executive branch has the authority is make adjustments in order to carry out the law. It doesn't have authority to repeal it.

The new president can just give a waiver to everyone and an extension for 100 years, it would be the same exact thing Obama did.

(04-06-2014 04:15 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 04:09 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 04:03 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:44 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  It can't be repealed by a simple majority in the senate. The earliest a repeal bill would have a change of going through both houses and be placed on the President's desk and signed would be some time in2017.

Dirty Harry gave us the nuclear option

The "nuclear option" is getting something through the senate. That is just one step. School House rock does an excellent job in explaining how a bill becomes a law. Check it out on you tube.

The nuclear option means that the minority party might as well stay home and not even show up. Just like it is now for the Republicans. Changing over 200 years of senate procedure. Thanks Dirty Harry. The you tube was before the nuclear Reid.

The steps to turn a bill into a law haven't changed. I'm sure you know that.

What I know is the rules can now be changed at will to allow 51 votes in stead of 60 for cloture.

(04-06-2014 04:13 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 04:06 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:15 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 02:11 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  It is a damn good thing that this whole ACA debacle can be repealed with a simple majority in the senate. Thank you dirty harry for opening that door.

Veto

after the pasting that the dems are about to take in the midterms, I wouldn't be surprised if enough of the dems that survived defected to the repeal/replace side. Enough to override a veto.

sooner or later, dems are going to realize the Obama is in it for Obama, and couldn't possibly care less how many of them get slaughtered for his law, which is his sole achievement for his place on mt Rushmore.

I'm not expecting much going the Democrats way in the mid terms, but I'm not sure that in 6 or 7 months the ACA is going to be a major issue.

Delaying the effective date for the employer mandate, which would have set off another tsunami of many millions of insurance policy cancellations, will certainly make it less of an issue than it would have been otherwise -- you know, if the administration had a shred of honesty anywhere in them.

It pretty sad when you have to gut your own law to keep it from killing you in the next election, but that's what they have been doing for the past 5 years -- sneaking in phases of the law around election days.

(04-06-2014 04:27 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 04:15 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 04:09 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 04:03 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:44 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Dirty Harry gave us the nuclear option

The "nuclear option" is getting something through the senate. That is just one step. School House rock does an excellent job in explaining how a bill becomes a law. Check it out on you tube.

The nuclear option means that the minority party might as well stay home and not even show up. Just like it is now for the Republicans. Changing over 200 years of senate procedure. Thanks Dirty Harry. The you tube was before the nuclear Reid.

The steps to turn a bill into a law haven't changed. I'm sure you know that.

What I know is the rules can now be changed at will to allow 51 votes in stead of 60 for cloture.

I presume that anything passed under reconciliation can be repealed under reconciliation.

(04-06-2014 01:59 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The private system failed for millions of Americans.

And its not appropriate to assume efficient markets when it comes to healthcare. Demand responses to price changes is highly inelastic. That's why a Libertarian response cannot work. There either have to be constraints to stop the health care oligopoly from exploiting that price inelasticity (which they've been doing as can be evidenced by the premium costs versus the overall level of inflation) or massive government intervention to ensure affordability. I'd argue for both.

There was no true private system. There was a crony capitalism method where insurance got in bed with government to **** everybody over as much as possible. But at least there was SOME competition. You couldn't buy across state lines. All the tax incentives were to provide insurance through your employer instead of you shopping for what you need. All the tax incentives were AGAINST anything other that full comprehensive insurance, thus divorcing price from the transactions of health care providers and buyers.

The liberal "solution" to that unholy union ... was to have the government try to FORCE everybody into it. BRILLIANT! Competition is now even LOWER, we're further burdening the bankrupt (and crappy) medicare and medicaid enrollments. And we're expecting young people with few total assets, student loan debt, and mortgage debt to pay for the health care of people with hundreds of thousands and even millions of dollars with or equity and assets and property who don't have student loan debt and who have much lower or no mortgage debt. And by the way while the young people are getting ****ed by that system, they are also paying into social security, medicare, and medicaid programs that will be bankrupt long before they're able to use them. BRILLIANT!

(04-06-2014 12:24 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 11:49 AM)GoodOwl Wrote:  and never will. Eat it Obama.

Good for you. I hope your health remains good and you have no accidents. If you do I hope you have plenty of savings to pay your medical bills.

How is he *any* less responsable than someone taking out a heavily subsidzed plan?

(04-06-2014 04:15 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 04:09 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 04:03 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:44 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(04-06-2014 03:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  It can't be repealed by a simple majority in the senate. The earliest a repeal bill would have a change of going through both houses and be placed on the President's desk and signed would be some time in2017.

Dirty Harry gave us the nuclear option

The "nuclear option" is getting something through the senate. That is just one step. School House rock does an excellent job in explaining how a bill becomes a law. Check it out on you tube.

The nuclear option means that the minority party might as well stay home and not even show up. Just like it is now for the Republicans. Changing over 200 years of senate procedure. Thanks Dirty Harry. The you tube was before the nuclear Reid.

The steps to turn a bill into a law haven't changed. I'm sure you know that.

Obama creates legislation in press conferences.