(11-16-2013 09:55 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  At work, we did an early renewal (December 1) to kick the Obama-can nine months further down the road, as going to the community rating means we would pay an additional 94% for our health insurance. Our carrier has already informed us we will not be able to keep our plan beyond November 30, 2014.

I've had the same HMO plan for more than 15 years. It worked great for my family. The family deductible was $200. It was canceled due to the new ACA coverage rules. I will now have a plan with a family deductible of $3000 and OOP of $6000. But hey I have complete maternity coverage!

The president knowingly LIED to the people of this country. Not once but over 30 times. He repeated the lie over and over to get re-elected and to keep his signature project going.

The fact that someone in this thread wrote that the President is "Allowing people to retain their coverage for the next year" should scare the crap out of people. He should not and does not have the power to "Allow" something that directly changes laws passed by Congress. Who does he think he is? He's not the freaking king of the USA...

Someone needs to challenge the legality of his change orders to the ACA...employer mandate and the restoration of canceled plans. By what authority can he unilaterally change laws?

(11-16-2013 12:51 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  The problem I see here is that you all focus too much on what the President says rather than what actually occurs.

I assure you that nothing that the President says affects you as much as what actually occurs.

So please tell me what you personally have actually experienced that has occured to you and perhaps we can further the discussion.

As for me, my health insurnace has not changed one bit.

So you are totally ok with the President knowingly lying directly to you? Not once, not twice but over 30 times. Wow.

Comrade Obama can do NO WRONG in the eyes of sychophant liberals like Fitbud, Scorp, and Robert. His "admission" of the problem does not justify his deliberate LYING to get re-elected. THis is Obama's pet project and it is blowing up big time.

Coming up in 2014:
- the penalties (tax) kick in
- major companies group health plans will come under "revision"; this will really wake people up who thus far have been insulated from the ObamaCare damage
- smaller companies who saw this coming LAST year will continue to keep payroll down and convert many positions to 29 hours or less to avoid the onerous guidelines of ObamaCare

Oh, and the mid terms next November. It is not an accident a lot of Dems are ducking and running; they anticipate major constituent blowback at the voting booth. Do I think the Republicans are going to seize full control of the Senate and extend their control of the House? Yes to the latter but I don't think they'll retake the Senate.

The bottom line is really quite simple - This POS healthcare boondoogle is going to KILL the US economy.

(11-16-2013 11:44 AM)boss man Wrote:  Comrade Obama can do NO WRONG in the eyes of sychophant liberals like Fitbud, Scorp, and Robert. His "admission" of the problem does not justify his deliberate LYING to get re-elected. THis is Obama's pet project and it is blowing up big time.

Coming up in 2014:
- the penalties (tax) kick in
- major companies group health plans will come under "revision"; this will really wake people up who thus far have been insulated from the ObamaCare damage
- smaller companies who saw this coming LAST year will continue to keep payroll down and convert many positions to 29 hours or less to avoid the onerous guidelines of ObamaCare

Oh, and the mid terms next November. It is not an accident a lot of Dems are ducking and running; they anticipate major constituent blowback at the voting booth. Do I think the Republicans are going to seize full control of the Senate and extend their control of the House? Yes to the latter but I don't think they'll retake the Senate.

The bottom line is really quite simple - This POS healthcare boondoogle is going to KILL the US economy.

To the point you made about killing the US Economy. Middle class Americans who drive the economy will be paying much more for their forced HC insurance. Except for the Insurance industry, what do you think putting much less money in the pockets of consumers is going to do? The consumer economy will fail. What happens when the FED stops printing money to monetize the debt. What is going to happen when inflation finally kicks in. But no concern, Zero will be out of office by then.

It was open enrollment for insurance this week where I work. My premiums went up 30% and the co-pay, drugs, deductible, and out of pocket costs went though the roof. Not only did these increased costs get blamed on Obamacare, but the enrollment form contained a link to the IRS website where some of the mandates were explained. My company made sure the employees knew the reason behind the sharp increases.

(11-16-2013 02:15 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  It was open enrollment for insurance this week where I work. My premiums went up 30% and the co-pay, drugs, deductible, and out of pocket costs went though the roof. Not only did these increased costs get blamed on Obamacare, but the enrollment form contained a link to the IRS website where some of the mandates were explained. My company made sure the employees knew the reason behind the sharp increases.

You really can't blame companies for being very transparent about the reasons behind the cost increases this year and wanting their employees to know that it was not the company's fault.

Companies budget a certain amount of dollars for employee benefits. When the cost of those benefits increases employers usually allocate additional funds to help offset but ultimately the employee is left making up the difference. This year the cost of health insurance didn't just go up by a normal annual increase but skyrocketed completely due to the ACA.

Cue the left with their evil, greedy employers should cover the ACA health insurance cost increase for their employees.

So much for the promised $2500 savings. Just another lie spewed from the mouth of the Liar-in-Chief.

Got the word last week my premiums are going up 25%, though my coverage looks to stay the same.

For now.

Thanks, Mr. President.

I work at FedEx and there were cost increases in their two group health plan options as well. Fred Smith made the cost increases in health care one of the top three FedEx issues on their immediate horizon. He stated in his bi-annual letter to the employees that if the 2018 "Cadillac plan" tax had been implemented in 2013, FedEx would have been required to pay the US government $56,000,000 just for providing the group health plan to its 230,000 + U.S. employees.

Wow. I wonder what that "tax" might be in 4 years and 1 month. I also wonder what FedEx is planning to do to reduce it. One option is to drop group health coverage for the employees. FedEx spends about $1bb each year in health care costs. Putting the 230,000 US employees in ObamaCare will cost FedEx the max $3,000 per employee each year. $3,000 x 230,000 = $690,000,000. That is a $300mm savings for FedEx.

It could very well happen.

Tolerate the cost increases, America.

Elections have consequences and this one is going to be severe.

Obama is a MF liar who is ruining America.

(11-16-2013 10:14 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(11-16-2013 12:51 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  The problem I see here is that you all focus too much on what the President says rather than what actually occurs.

I assure you that nothing that the President says affects you as much as what actually occurs.

So please tell me what you personally have actually experienced that has occured to you and perhaps we can further the discussion.

As for me, my health insurnace has not changed one bit.

So you are totally ok with the President knowingly lying directly to you? Not once, not twice but over 30 times. Wow.

He didn't knowingly lie. The plans were grandfathered unless they were changed by the insurance companies.

How was he supposed to know that the insurance companies would change their policies after impementation?

(11-17-2013 03:15 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  He didn't knowingly lie. The plans were grandfathered unless they were changed by the insurance companies.
How was he supposed to know that the insurance companies would change their policies after impementation?

Unless you want to make the argument that he is dangerously naive, of course he knowingly lied. The whole effort was set up to give him deniability, but the SOB lied.

Minor changes in policies are inevitable--the economy changes, medical technology changes, laws and regulations change, many external factors change which require responsive changes in policies. The law itself is somewhat vague on this. The specifics were to be provided by regulations issued pursuant to those regulations. The law itself provided latitude in those regulations, so regulations could have been written to allow the inevitable minor changes so long as the major provisions remained intact. But that's not the regulations that were issued. And once the regulations were developed, it was inevitable that policies would not be grandfathered. That's the significance of the 2010 estimate of policies that would be cancelled that was published in the federal register. At that point, if not before, Obama knew. He had to. There is simply no way he didn't--unless you want to make the argument that on his signature piece of legislation, he simply remained too naive and uninformed to know what the hell was going on.

The problem is very simple. Unless people are forced off policies that are "deficient" because they don't include things like coverage for children for 60 year olds, or sex changes, or abortions for committed Christians, or other such unneeded and unwanted procedures, there aren't enough people in the pool to cover the costs of those things for the people who avail themselves of such services. There aren't enough healthy people to cover all the sick people unless the healthy people are force pooled. So, the law was written vague to give the politicians cover, but everyone knew that the regs would be written to force people off plans.

As far as knowing that insurance companies would change plans after the fact, many of the changes probably occurred before the fact--after the law was passed but before the regulations were issued in final form. By the time the regulations were issued, many policies were probably already out of compliance because of prior actions by the insurers.

Obama had to know this. If he paid any attention at all, he had to know this at the time the law was passed. It was even pointed out by some opponents that this was an inevitable consequence--either people would be forced off policies or the economics of the exchanges would not work. Doing it this way gives him and other democrats the added bonus of being able to blame it all on the mean old insurance companies, when in fact it was the regulations that made it inevitable. This is the plan how Obamacare will lead to single-payer. The regulations will make it increasingly impossible for insurance companies, the companies will be blamed for being "greedy" instead of making reasonable and rational business decisions in the face of regulations that force certain behaviors, and by golly we will just evolve into government insurance for all as a matter of necessity. All we really need is a government body to regulate who gets what, and by golly we've already got that in spades with the IPAB, HCC, and CCO structure.

There are two possible explanations:
1. The guy who made it crystal clear from day one that a single-payer system was his sole ultimate goal, and who promised to Dennis Kucinich that this was the first step on that road in order to get his vote, did not understand this progression.
2. The lying SOB lied to us again.

The process has been set up to create a third possible option--that nobody could really have known until the regulations were issued. That's a little sketchy, considering that the people developing and issuing the regs were largely appointed by Obama and that he had immense informal power to influence their decisions. But assume it so, that means that both a) he was too naive to know what the regs were going to do, and b) once the regs became known, he lied to us.

If this is too difficult for you to follow, I'm sorry. I was predicting this in 2009, and it's happening now. And Obama lied about it.

(11-17-2013 03:15 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-16-2013 10:14 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(11-16-2013 12:51 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  The problem I see here is that you all focus too much on what the President says rather than what actually occurs.

I assure you that nothing that the President says affects you as much as what actually occurs.

So please tell me what you personally have actually experienced that has occured to you and perhaps we can further the discussion.

As for me, my health insurnace has not changed one bit.

So you are totally ok with the President knowingly lying directly to you? Not once, not twice but over 30 times. Wow.

He didn't knowingly lie. The plans were grandfathered unless they were changed by the insurance companies.

How was he supposed to know that the insurance companies would change their policies after impementation?

You really know jackshit.

(11-17-2013 03:15 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-16-2013 10:14 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(11-16-2013 12:51 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  The problem I see here is that you all focus too much on what the President says rather than what actually occurs.

I assure you that nothing that the President says affects you as much as what actually occurs.

So please tell me what you personally have actually experienced that has occured to you and perhaps we can further the discussion.

As for me, my health insurnace has not changed one bit.

So you are totally ok with the President knowingly lying directly to you? Not once, not twice but over 30 times. Wow.

He didn't knowingly lie. The plans were grandfathered unless they were changed by the insurance companies.

How was he supposed to know that the insurance companies would change their policies after impementation?

He knew. Insurance companies make small changes to coverage, deductibles and co-pays every year as standard practice. Few if any policies remain exactly the same year to year.

There is an email trail dating back to 2010 showing that the administration including the president knew that even the slightest change in a current policy (co-pay goes from $10 to $15) rendered it null and void under the ACA. They were counting on this happening in order to dump more people into the new exchanges to offset the costs of covering the sick and elderly.

You must be a true believer to defend your president lying to your face.

(11-16-2013 10:55 PM)boss man Wrote:  I work at FedEx and there were cost increases in their two group health plan options as well. Fred Smith made the cost increases in health care one of the top three FedEx issues on their immediate horizon. He stated in his bi-annual letter to the employees that if the 2018 "Cadillac plan" tax had been implemented in 2013, FedEx would have been required to pay the US government $56,000,000 just for providing the group health plan to its 230,000 + U.S. employees.

Wow. I wonder what that "tax" might be in 4 years and 1 month. I also wonder what FedEx is planning to do to reduce it. One option is to drop group health coverage for the employees. FedEx spends about $1bb each year in health care costs. Putting the 230,000 US employees in ObamaCare will cost FedEx the max $3,000 per employee each year. $3,000 x 230,000 = $690,000,000. That is a $300mm savings for FedEx.

It could very well happen.

Tolerate the cost increases, America.

Elections have consequences and this one is going to be severe.

Obama is a MF liar who is ruining America.

President Obama is counting on pricing company provided health insurance out of sight such that companies dump people into the government exchanges. It's just a step towards getting everyone into the same government system and then reworking that system into single payer.

The brownshirt defenders like Fitbud are incredible. Carry that water, b!tches. Truly, your Lord Obama can do no wrong even the LYING MF admitted at that meltdown presser the other day his team absolutely failed to see the issues in creating this debacle.

mpnstr@44 - yep, no doubt. It's just amazing to see an international company like FedEx openly laying the blame where it belongs. Many other international companies are doing the same thing. Wasn't it Caterpillar that already said they would be dropping their group health coverage?

(11-17-2013 09:55 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(11-16-2013 10:55 PM)boss man Wrote:  I work at FedEx and there were cost increases in their two group health plan options as well. Fred Smith made the cost increases in health care one of the top three FedEx issues on their immediate horizon. He stated in his bi-annual letter to the employees that if the 2018 "Cadillac plan" tax had been implemented in 2013, FedEx would have been required to pay the US government $56,000,000 just for providing the group health plan to its 230,000 + U.S. employees.
Wow. I wonder what that "tax" might be in 4 years and 1 month. I also wonder what FedEx is planning to do to reduce it. One option is to drop group health coverage for the employees. FedEx spends about $1bb each year in health care costs. Putting the 230,000 US employees in ObamaCare will cost FedEx the max $3,000 per employee each year. $3,000 x 230,000 = $690,000,000. That is a $300mm savings for FedEx.
It could very well happen.
Tolerate the cost increases, America.
Elections have consequences and this one is going to be severe.
Obama is a MF liar who is ruining America.

President Obama is counting on pricing company provided health insurance out of sight such that companies dump people into the government exchanges. It's just a step towards getting everyone into the same government system and then reworking that system into single payer.

Yes. My longer post #30 above goes into more detail, but this is the gist of it.