CSNbbs

(01-28-2021 01:13 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think anyone will leave the SoCon either, but this post does not have facts straight:

(01-28-2021 12:06 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote: [ -> ]There's a lot of obstacles for the ASUN in regards to the SoCon publics.

SoCon Conference Tournament in Asheville, NC. This tournament is a sell out every year.

SoCon 2019 Tournament drew 4671 average for 14th in the country. The capacity is listed as 7674, which would mean 60% full.

(01-28-2021 12:06 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote: [ -> ]SoCon always gets multiple bids in the FCS tournament. And have gotten at-large bids in basketball very recently too.

SoCon hasn't had a basketball at-large bid in its entire history.

Let's talk facts then.

The Asheville Civic Center only holds 7200 for standing room only events. The capacity for basketball is just at 6000 and they'll squeeze in a couple extra hundred if needed I know, I worked there for years.

2019 SoCon Tourney - 3 games over 5400 and two over 6000, one being 6400. No idea how they got that many in the building past the fire marshall.

2018 SoCon Tourney - 3 games over 5500

2017 SoCon Tourney - 3 games over 4500 with the final having 6400 (sellout)

For visual pleasure




sources:

https://soconsports.com/news/2018/8/16/211768415.aspx
https://soconsports.com/news/2016/8/30/211654396.aspx
https://soconsports.com/news/2016/8/30/210347093.aspx



Didn't specifically say NCAA At-large bids.

2019 - NIT At-large bid (not auto qualifying). So... Facts?

Lots of confusion here.

We are talking football, then it is possible two of the five schools could get berths to the NCAA FCS tournament.

If we are talking basketball, all these conferences are pretty much hopelessly single bid. There are 32 AQs for conference champions, and 36 at-large. The majors (P5 + Big East) have gotten an average of 31 in the last 6 years of the tourney. This year seems to be breaking down almost identical. The other five are typically going to the "upper mids" group (American, MWC, WCC, A10, maybe MVC). Every once in awhile some other conference will produce one, but it's very rare.

This year, if I'm a betting man, the NET seems to be breaking for one at-large to the MWC, WCC and MVC with A10 and American having a very good chance based on depth and recent performance. Nobody else looks close barring something unforeseen. I think the B1G will get 8 at-large, the other 5 major conferences will get between 4 and 6 each.

This is pretty normal distribution, the B1G a bit heavier than normal. I expect it will shift to another conference in a few years, as it always does.

I do find it ironic that the American is so against taking Boise State basketball, as they look like a near lock for a bid, regardless of how they do in the MWC tourney.

Ok, Wikipedia was wrong on the capacity then. That's fair.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrah%27s...kee_Center

That still doesn't make a "tournament is a sell-out every year" though.


And I'm not sure how you'd expect someone to interpret "have gotten at-large bids in basketball" to mean the NIT. If someone intends to mean at-large bids for NIT, they'll specify NIT because at-large bids is used in reference to the NCAA Tournament.

Wikipedia does have it wrong. Straight from their website: https://www.harrahscherokeecenterashevil...lle-arena/ , and their capacity puts a sell out at 6,268. Two out of the last three tournaments championship games were sellouts and the 3rd was at 92% capacity. I didn't specify because I couldn't remember which tournament it was. I knew they had gotten an auto-bid.

(01-28-2021 02:04 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote: [ -> ]Wikipedia does have it wrong. Straight from their website: https://www.harrahscherokeecenterashevil...lle-arena/ , and their capacity puts a sell out at 6,268. Two out of the last three tournaments championship games were sellouts and the 3rd was at 92% capacity. I didn't specify because I couldn't remember which tournament it was. I knew they had gotten an auto-bid.

I stand corrected on the capacity. 100%/100%/92% is actually very impressive. SoCon Semi's need to be put on regular tv.

(01-28-2021 02:08 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-28-2021 02:04 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote: [ -> ]Wikipedia does have it wrong. Straight from their website: https://www.harrahscherokeecenterashevil...lle-arena/ , and their capacity puts a sell out at 6,268. Two out of the last three tournaments championship games were sellouts and the 3rd was at 92% capacity. I didn't specify because I couldn't remember which tournament it was. I knew they had gotten an auto-bid.

I stand corrected on the capacity. 100%/100%/92% is actually very impressive. SoCon Semi's need to be put on regular tv.

I'll admit the auto-bid thing was definitely "iffy arguing material"

A+ would argue again.

(01-28-2021 01:15 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-28-2021 12:44 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote: [ -> ]With two more auto bids, there's two less at-large bids. They aren't gonna expand the playoffs again. More likely they shrink it back down.

It's an NCAA by-law that autobids can't exceed at-larges for an NCAA-sponsored tournament.

On the other hand, if everyone agrees, the rules change. Would anyone with any stroke object to exempting the FCS playoffs from that rule? Would anyone care?

This seems (to my dont-know-squat about FCS eyes) like the Big East autobid. It didn't change the balance of power between the haves and have-nots, so nobody cares. The WAC and ASUN autobid winners would have qualified for at-large spots anyway, right?

In regard to Chattanooga, and I am by no means saying they will or will not do anything to be glass clear...

If they wanted to move to the ASUN, but couldn't because of the exit fee with the Socon, that's not a problem. I do know at least 2 schools for a fact would help out with that.

Also on a history and rivalry standpoint, I think yall give way too much to that aspect. The only real "rival" that Chattanooga has in the SoCon is ETSU, and I hear it from Chattanooga alum constantly that they dont really care about that rivalry anymore. They consider JSU as their major rival. Never hear of them talk about anyone else in the SoCon either. But they do say they wouldl like to start something with UNA and KSU....

If we think History matters, look at EKU, a founding member of the OVC.... they have no problem leaving their history for what the ASUN is doing. Why do yall think Chattanooga, that's no where close to that kind of history with a conference, wouldn't consider it?


I think that is just as logical or more than just saying the SoCon is so historic and rivals and exit fees and prestige as anything.

Just my opinion.

What has any of this to do with the ASUN or OVC. I think it's well recognized the SoCon is a solid step above both,and has been outperforming the disappointing CAA.

All this means is, unless some giant fissure over philosophy emerges that nobody sees happening, no SoCon school will leave for one of those conferences.

But on the flip side, the SoCon could have an interest in a school like Belmont should the OVC collapse. However there doesn't seem to be any pressing need, so why bother?

I think we should focus on the OVC and whether they will stabilize and hold ranks or lose more schools in the next year or two. Certainly schools like Austin Peay or even possibly Murray State will be targets of the ASUN as they look for a 6th school to get that AQ for football.

(01-28-2021 02:38 PM)johnbragg Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-28-2021 01:15 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-28-2021 12:44 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote: [ -> ]With two more auto bids, there's two less at-large bids. They aren't gonna expand the playoffs again. More likely they shrink it back down.

It's an NCAA by-law that autobids can't exceed at-larges for an NCAA-sponsored tournament.

On the other hand, if everyone agrees, the rules change. Would anyone with any stroke object to exempting the FCS playoffs from that rule? Would anyone care?

This seems (to my dont-know-squat about FCS eyes) like the Big East autobid. It didn't change the balance of power between the haves and have-nots, so nobody cares. The WAC and ASUN autobid winners would have qualified for at-large spots anyway, right?

It's actually a bylaw for ANY NCAA Sponsored Championship Tournament.

And realistically, not much difference between a 20 or 24 team tournament - just the number of first round byes (4 or 8)

Teams seem to prefer the 24 team tournament over the 20, since it gives each of the 8 seeded teams a first round bye, and the next 8 a home game.

(01-28-2021 04:15 PM)dbackjon Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-28-2021 02:38 PM)johnbragg Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-28-2021 01:15 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-28-2021 12:44 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote: [ -> ]With two more auto bids, there's two less at-large bids. They aren't gonna expand the playoffs again. More likely they shrink it back down.

It's an NCAA by-law that autobids can't exceed at-larges for an NCAA-sponsored tournament.

On the other hand, if everyone agrees, the rules change. Would anyone with any stroke object to exempting the FCS playoffs from that rule? Would anyone care?

This seems (to my dont-know-squat about FCS eyes) like the Big East autobid. It didn't change the balance of power between the haves and have-nots, so nobody cares. The WAC and ASUN autobid winners would have qualified for at-large spots anyway, right?

It's actually a bylaw for ANY NCAA Sponsored Championship Tournament.

But NCAA bylaws aren't carved on stone tablets and brought down by Moses. They reflect an agreement between the various power centers and factions.

So if everyone involved is cool with exempting FCS from the bylaw, they change or waive the rule FCS gets exempted from the bylaw.

I don't know if EKU and JSU leaving is going to trigger additional OVC departures, but if Belmont sensed that the conference were unstable or significantly deteriorating in quality, perhaps they'd pull the trigger on the MVC, taking Murray State with. In that case, Murray would need a place for FB. While the MVFC might be (begrudgingly?) willing to add them due to the overlap in membership with the MVC, given that Murray is not very competitive in FB, perhaps they'd find a more suitable home as an affiliate with the Big South or this potential new A-Sun FCS wing.

Chattanooga's main rivals in football were Appalachian State and Georgia Southern. SoCon is really went downhill in football, and their basketball have taken some hits. If ASUN can get a coup and get Chattanooga and ETSU? ASUN would be much better by the book in both sports. And going to be an FBS conference in the future would get the schools in the spotlight to get recruits than being in SoCon. Remember? Both of those schools were FBS Independents until 1982. SoCon needed to fight to keep FBS status, but it seems some schools were split on which level they want to play football.

SoCon should push for Belmont now.

Belmont is in an unusual situation. Their house has been shaken up. So do they:

Join the MVC with Murray St
Join the SoCon alone or with a TBD university
Stay put and hope for no more defections

(01-28-2021 05:53 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: [ -> ]Belmont is in an unusual situation. Their house has been shaken up. So do they:

Join the MVC with Murray St
Join the SoCon alone or with a TBD university
Stay put and hope for no more defections

If I were Belmont, I pick MVC then SoCon over staying.

(01-28-2021 04:13 PM)Stugray2 Wrote: [ -> ]What has any of this to do with the ASUN or OVC. I think it's well recognized the SoCon is a solid step above both,and has been outperforming the disappointing CAA.

All this means is, unless some giant fissure over philosophy emerges that nobody sees happening, no SoCon school will leave for one of those conferences.

But on the flip side, the SoCon could have an interest in a school like Belmont should the OVC collapse. However there doesn't seem to be any pressing need, so why bother?

I think we should focus on the OVC and whether they will stabilize and hold ranks or lose more schools in the next year or two. Certainly schools like Austin Peay or even possibly Murray State will be targets of the ASUN as they look for a 6th school to get that AQ for football.

Murray would have no reason to go to the ASun. Now if the MVC called, they would definitely answer.

As a long-time Belmont fan, I will simply say this: I want the Bruin athletics program to leave the OVC. The league has been good for BU, but the FCS college sports landscape is changing quickly. EKU and JSU are leaving. Murray might be a target of the MVC. In short, the OVC is being weakened from within and without.

Belmont does not offer football (it should not, either), is private and is located in a city. As such, it is not "OVC-esque" in those ways. In my dream scenario, BU would join the Atlantic 10. But if that is not going to happen, the Missouri Valley would be strong. Sadly, I don't see it happening.

There is now a rumor on message boards that ODU and Charlotte want to go FBS Independent and rejoin the A-10. If they just hold on a few more years? ASun would be a perfect FBS home. The reason is the scheduling sucks in CUSA.

This just in.... don't know if it's true or not, tomorrow will tell......