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(10-28-2021 06:25 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-28-2021 05:17 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-28-2021 03:57 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-27-2021 03:44 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-27-2021 09:51 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Because I think you have not answered the question of why so many diverse businesses all across the USA are having trouble, dodging the main question by dwelling on minor influences like the J-1's.

The places I see cutting back hours or closing dining areas don't hire J-1's. Neither does the chili company I used to own.

How am I dodging the main question by answering why I think many jobs are having trouble? I've provided thoughts on what I think are the main drags, and then details on individual ones you and others have taken issue with.

My very first post said childcare, immigration, and COVID issues (i.e. fear of infection).

How is that "doding the main question"?

I think I was clear about that when I said:

"Because I think you have not answered the question of why so many diverse businesses all across the USA are having trouble, dodging the main question by dwelling on minor influences like the J-1's."

The main question is "Why are so many diverse businesses all over the USA having trouble hiring workers?"

I think child care is not the problem. See Ham's post.

I think immigration, both legal and illegal, is at best a minor part of the problem. Maybe if you are an asparagus farmer in Fresno. It has zero impact on most businesses.

Covid issues is incredibly broad and vague. Do you mean fear of contact to people? An awful lot of unemployed, but employable people are NOT locking thmeselves into their houses. What do you mean?

The only covid issue I can think of is that some people are comfortable at home, after being home the last year. Of course, the generous unemployment benefits have helped make them comfortable. maybe they have saved enough of them to be comfortable a while longer.

There's your answer.

Frankly, Ham hasn’t done anything besides pontificate - he is far from proving that childcare is not a problem at the moment. In fact, myself and Interested have both provided sources that provide evidence to support my claim.

Same regarding you and immigration. I’ve posted multiple sources/analyses - one eve from CATO - supporting this thesis.

The issue isn’t that I am not answering your question. The issue is you don’t like or agree with my response.

Not the way I see it.

To each their own - but stop playing the victim and acting like you’re being intentionally ignored. Is tiring.
(10-28-2021 02:13 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]But this lets the proposed solutions get in the way of agreeing with whether a problem even exists. So if we can't agree on reality, it's hard to even get to a discussion about proposed solutions.

SInce I referred to it as a solution in search of a problem, its pretty clear that we don't agree and won't without you presenting compelling evidence. Since I don't see it as a problem and you haven't even TRIED to demonstrate that is actually is, why are we still talking about it? The burden is on you to convince me, not on me to convince you... since I don't need to find a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Quote:Immigration being a great example - we're seeing a reduction in immigration across the board. So it's not like one even has to clamber for increasing immigration from pre-pandemic, but just to pre-pandemic levels to stop this temporary reduction in potential laborers.
Since we're talking about people not taking jobs, but being unemployed and seeking jobs... it seems silly to 'import laborers' to do jobs if the whole goal is to raise wages without raising costs to consumers. Why don't we just find ways to do more with fewer people and then pay those people more? If we do that, costs don't have to rise.

Quote:The J-1 visas, which are just a piece of the puzzle, are more than just ski instructors. They are also people who work the seasonal stores and restaurants in resort areas - jobs that locals could do, but don't. That then impacts the broader economy as those businesses may not be able to stay open and serve the tourists coming. I don't think it's as wealth focused as you think - not every tourist vacationing along shores or even mountain towns.

Same story. They don't do it because the resorts would prefer to hire Hans and Inga rather than Fred and Ethyl to appeal to bougie people.

Quote:For starters, when discussing what issues exist, the need to solve them (bolded) is irrelevant to the discussion. The whole conversation has been "what is affecting the labor market (i.e. lack of workers and difficulty hiring)" and not "how do we solve the labor issue" or "do these issues need to be solved." The second question is a follow on, and the answer very well could be - nothing needs to be done for this issue.

DO you have any idea what a pompous douche you sound like every time you tell people 'what the discussion is about'? It may be what YOU want to talk about, but it isn't ALL that I've talked about.... nor many others on here.

Quote:You also say "but I haven't seen it demonstrated that 'in general' or 'on average' and certainly not 'clearly' that there are lots of people who WOULD take jobs if they could get daycare... and they USED to have daycare, but now can't get it because the daycare can't find people to hire"

Most of the data I've seen is focused on general women's participation in the labor force, and how it is diverging from men's participation. The question then goes to, why is that diverging? Do we think that women, more than men, are more likely to be those job switchers that just happen to say they're not working during surveys? Or is it more likely that, based on historical trends that show that women generally shoulder a larger burden of childcare, are doing just that during the pandemic? And since labor participation is lower, and childcare positions are lower, and so on, that this is real?

As I said, that's on you to demonstrate since you're the one making that claim. You haven't done that. I don't think you can. If you could, I suspect you would.

(10-28-2021 05:17 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]Frankly, Ham hasn’t done anything besides pontificate - he is far from proving that childcare is not a problem at the moment. In fact, myself and Interested have both provided sources that provide evidence to support my claim.

I've missed your 'proof' and I've done much more than pontificate.

The burden isn't on me to [i]not prove a negative/i]. It's only on me to point out that you haven't remotely made your case. I've presented half a dozen articles from the top results on the issue from google search and none of them list your significant concern among their top reasons. Best I can see is that you presented a piece from NPR which is a nice company, but they are a mouthpiece for the DNC and the liberal agenda.... and then presented some statistics with an opinion on what they mean, but present no cause/effect.
(10-28-2021 08:27 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-28-2021 06:25 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-28-2021 05:17 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-28-2021 03:57 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-27-2021 03:44 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]How am I dodging the main question by answering why I think many jobs are having trouble? I've provided thoughts on what I think are the main drags, and then details on individual ones you and others have taken issue with.

My very first post said childcare, immigration, and COVID issues (i.e. fear of infection).

How is that "doding the main question"?

I think I was clear about that when I said:

"Because I think you have not answered the question of why so many diverse businesses all across the USA are having trouble, dodging the main question by dwelling on minor influences like the J-1's."

The main question is "Why are so many diverse businesses all over the USA having trouble hiring workers?"

I think child care is not the problem. See Ham's post.

I think immigration, both legal and illegal, is at best a minor part of the problem. Maybe if you are an asparagus farmer in Fresno. It has zero impact on most businesses.

Covid issues is incredibly broad and vague. Do you mean fear of contact to people? An awful lot of unemployed, but employable people are NOT locking thmeselves into their houses. What do you mean?

The only covid issue I can think of is that some people are comfortable at home, after being home the last year. Of course, the generous unemployment benefits have helped make them comfortable. maybe they have saved enough of them to be comfortable a while longer.

There's your answer.

Frankly, Ham hasn’t done anything besides pontificate - he is far from proving that childcare is not a problem at the moment. In fact, myself and Interested have both provided sources that provide evidence to support my claim.

Same regarding you and immigration. I’ve posted multiple sources/analyses - one eve from CATO - supporting this thesis.

The issue isn’t that I am not answering your question. The issue is you don’t like or agree with my response.

Not the way I see it.

To each their own - but stop playing the victim and acting like you’re being intentionally ignored. Is tiring.

Poor baby. He's tired. Such a victim.
(10-28-2021 09:36 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-28-2021 08:27 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-28-2021 06:25 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-28-2021 05:17 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-28-2021 03:57 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]I think I was clear about that when I said:

"Because I think you have not answered the question of why so many diverse businesses all across the USA are having trouble, dodging the main question by dwelling on minor influences like the J-1's."

The main question is "Why are so many diverse businesses all over the USA having trouble hiring workers?"

I think child care is not the problem. See Ham's post.

I think immigration, both legal and illegal, is at best a minor part of the problem. Maybe if you are an asparagus farmer in Fresno. It has zero impact on most businesses.

Covid issues is incredibly broad and vague. Do you mean fear of contact to people? An awful lot of unemployed, but employable people are NOT locking thmeselves into their houses. What do you mean?

The only covid issue I can think of is that some people are comfortable at home, after being home the last year. Of course, the generous unemployment benefits have helped make them comfortable. maybe they have saved enough of them to be comfortable a while longer.

There's your answer.

Frankly, Ham hasn’t done anything besides pontificate - he is far from proving that childcare is not a problem at the moment. In fact, myself and Interested have both provided sources that provide evidence to support my claim.

Same regarding you and immigration. I’ve posted multiple sources/analyses - one eve from CATO - supporting this thesis.

The issue isn’t that I am not answering your question. The issue is you don’t like or agree with my response.

Not the way I see it.

To each their own - but stop playing the victim and acting like you’re being intentionally ignored. Is tiring.

Poor baby. He's tired. Such a victim.

It's weird that OO always claims that he wants a dialogue with leftists to help him understand their POV however when he gets the desired dialogue he continually acts like this.
From the questioning of Garland's memo on school board meetings, by Ted Cruz.

Senator Cruz: (03:36:32)
Okay. 15 of the 20, on the face of it, are not violent. They’re not threats of violence. They’re parents who are unhappy. Yet miraculously, when you write a memo, the opening line of your memo: “In recent months, there has been a disturbing spike in harassment, intimidation, and threats of violence.” You know what? You didn’t look at nobody on your staff. Did you even look up the 20 instances?

AG Garland: (03:37:00)
As I testified, the decision to send a memo is for an assessment [crosstalk 03:37:06]

Senator Cruz: (03:37:05)
Did you look up the 20 instances?

AG Garland: (03:37:07)
I did not.

Senator Cruz: (03:37:08)
Did anyone on your staff look them up?

AG Garland: (03:37:10)
I don’t know the answer, but it’s not [crosstalk 03:37:12]


Signs off on a memo starting an investigative initiative on violence, where the vast majority of the instances cited in the memo are non-violent, and the weasel doesnt even check.

Just amazing. What a shitbird.

Thank god Merrick didnt get pulled onto the SCOTUS. The dude shouldnt be AG either.

(10-28-2021 11:36 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]From the questioning of Garland's memo on school board meetings, by Ted Cruz.

Senator Cruz: (03:36:32)
Okay. 15 of the 20, on the face of it, are not violent. They’re not threats of violence. They’re parents who are unhappy. Yet miraculously, when you write a memo, the opening line of your memo: “In recent months, there has been a disturbing spike in harassment, intimidation, and threats of violence.” You know what? You didn’t look at nobody on your staff. Did you even look up the 20 instances?

AG Garland: (03:37:00)
As I testified, the decision to send a memo is for an assessment [crosstalk 03:37:06]

Senator Cruz: (03:37:05)
Did you look up the 20 instances?

AG Garland: (03:37:07)
I did not.

Senator Cruz: (03:37:08)
Did anyone on your staff look them up?

AG Garland: (03:37:10)
I don’t know the answer, but it’s not [crosstalk 03:37:12]


Signs off on a memo starting an investigative initiative on violence, where the vast majority of the instances cited in the memo are non-violent, and the weasel doesnt even check.

Just amazing. What a shitbird.

Thank god Merrick didnt get pulled onto the SCOTUS. The dude shouldnt be AG either.

Still better than Holder.
(10-28-2021 11:42 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-28-2021 11:36 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]From the questioning of Garland's memo on school board meetings, by Ted Cruz.

Senator Cruz: (03:36:32)
Okay. 15 of the 20, on the face of it, are not violent. They’re not threats of violence. They’re parents who are unhappy. Yet miraculously, when you write a memo, the opening line of your memo: “In recent months, there has been a disturbing spike in harassment, intimidation, and threats of violence.” You know what? You didn’t look at nobody on your staff. Did you even look up the 20 instances?

AG Garland: (03:37:00)
As I testified, the decision to send a memo is for an assessment [crosstalk 03:37:06]

Senator Cruz: (03:37:05)
Did you look up the 20 instances?

AG Garland: (03:37:07)
I did not.

Senator Cruz: (03:37:08)
Did anyone on your staff look them up?

AG Garland: (03:37:10)
I don’t know the answer, but it’s not [crosstalk 03:37:12]


Signs off on a memo starting an investigative initiative on violence, where the vast majority of the instances cited in the memo are non-violent, and the weasel doesnt even check.

Just amazing. What a shitbird.

Thank god Merrick didnt get pulled onto the SCOTUS. The dude shouldnt be AG either.

Still better than Holder.

The memo that includes the Loudon father whose daughter was raped in bathroom, and that rape was covered up by the school board, as an example of protest that should be investigated and potentially indication of a crime against the the school board is pretty far down the extreme in inexcusable behavior.
(10-28-2021 11:58 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-28-2021 11:42 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-28-2021 11:36 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]From the questioning of Garland's memo on school board meetings, by Ted Cruz.

Senator Cruz: (03:36:32)
Okay. 15 of the 20, on the face of it, are not violent. They’re not threats of violence. They’re parents who are unhappy. Yet miraculously, when you write a memo, the opening line of your memo: “In recent months, there has been a disturbing spike in harassment, intimidation, and threats of violence.” You know what? You didn’t look at nobody on your staff. Did you even look up the 20 instances?

AG Garland: (03:37:00)
As I testified, the decision to send a memo is for an assessment [crosstalk 03:37:06]

Senator Cruz: (03:37:05)
Did you look up the 20 instances?

AG Garland: (03:37:07)
I did not.

Senator Cruz: (03:37:08)
Did anyone on your staff look them up?

AG Garland: (03:37:10)
I don’t know the answer, but it’s not [crosstalk 03:37:12]


Signs off on a memo starting an investigative initiative on violence, where the vast majority of the instances cited in the memo are non-violent, and the weasel doesnt even check.

Just amazing. What a shitbird.

Thank god Merrick didnt get pulled onto the SCOTUS. The dude shouldnt be AG either.

Still better than Holder.

The memo that includes the Loudon father whose daughter was raped in bathroom, and that rape was covered up by the school board, as an example of protest that should be investigated and potentially indication of a crime against the the school board is pretty far down the extreme in inexcusable behavior.

True. Maybe Garland IS worse. I just keep referring back to the subpoena against himself that Holder quashed.
(10-28-2021 09:34 PM)Hambone10 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-28-2021 02:13 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]But this lets the proposed solutions get in the way of agreeing with whether a problem even exists. So if we can't agree on reality, it's hard to even get to a discussion about proposed solutions.

SInce I referred to it as a solution in search of a problem, its pretty clear that we don't agree and won't without you presenting compelling evidence. Since I don't see it as a problem and you haven't even TRIED to demonstrate that is actually is, why are we still talking about it? The burden is on you to convince me, not on me to convince you... since I don't need to find a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Quote:Immigration being a great example - we're seeing a reduction in immigration across the board. So it's not like one even has to clamber for increasing immigration from pre-pandemic, but just to pre-pandemic levels to stop this temporary reduction in potential laborers.
Since we're talking about people not taking jobs, but being unemployed and seeking jobs... it seems silly to 'import laborers' to do jobs if the whole goal is to raise wages without raising costs to consumers. Why don't we just find ways to do more with fewer people and then pay those people more? If we do that, costs don't have to rise.

Quote:The J-1 visas, which are just a piece of the puzzle, are more than just ski instructors. They are also people who work the seasonal stores and restaurants in resort areas - jobs that locals could do, but don't. That then impacts the broader economy as those businesses may not be able to stay open and serve the tourists coming. I don't think it's as wealth focused as you think - not every tourist vacationing along shores or even mountain towns.

Same story. They don't do it because the resorts would prefer to hire Hans and Inga rather than Fred and Ethyl to appeal to bougie people.

Quote:For starters, when discussing what issues exist, the need to solve them (bolded) is irrelevant to the discussion. The whole conversation has been "what is affecting the labor market (i.e. lack of workers and difficulty hiring)" and not "how do we solve the labor issue" or "do these issues need to be solved." The second question is a follow on, and the answer very well could be - nothing needs to be done for this issue.

DO you have any idea what a pompous douche you sound like every time you tell people 'what the discussion is about'? It may be what YOU want to talk about, but it isn't ALL that I've talked about.... nor many others on here.

Quote:You also say "but I haven't seen it demonstrated that 'in general' or 'on average' and certainly not 'clearly' that there are lots of people who WOULD take jobs if they could get daycare... and they USED to have daycare, but now can't get it because the daycare can't find people to hire"

Most of the data I've seen is focused on general women's participation in the labor force, and how it is diverging from men's participation. The question then goes to, why is that diverging? Do we think that women, more than men, are more likely to be those job switchers that just happen to say they're not working during surveys? Or is it more likely that, based on historical trends that show that women generally shoulder a larger burden of childcare, are doing just that during the pandemic? And since labor participation is lower, and childcare positions are lower, and so on, that this is real?

As I said, that's on you to demonstrate since you're the one making that claim. You haven't done that. I don't think you can. If you could, I suspect you would.

(10-28-2021 05:17 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]Frankly, Ham hasn’t done anything besides pontificate - he is far from proving that childcare is not a problem at the moment. In fact, myself and Interested have both provided sources that provide evidence to support my claim.

I've missed your 'proof' and I've done much more than pontificate.

The burden isn't on me to [i]not prove a negative/i]. It's only on me to point out that you haven't remotely made your case. I've presented half a dozen articles from the top results on the issue from google search and none of them list your significant concern among their top reasons. Best I can see is that you presented a piece from NPR which is a nice company, but they are a mouthpiece for the DNC and the liberal agenda.... and then presented some statistics with an opinion on what they mean, but present no cause/effect.

You missed a number of my posts if all you saw was the NPR article, which explains a lot about this back and forth…

Here are the most notable ones, given that you don’t seem to care for any news agency you perceive as having a bias (I’m still blown away at how partisan you’re making this discussion of labor issue causes):

Cato Institute article on immigration impacts: https://csnbbs.com/thread-911381-post-17...id17772392

JP Morgan on the various major issues: https://csnbbs.com/thread-911381-post-17...id17753390

As to one other comment (I’m responding on my phone, so don’t go yelling about cherry picking) - it isn’t pompous to say what we’re talking about. If we each think we’re talking about a different issue, then the conversation will go sideways because we’re not actually addressing the same topic. I firmly disagree that others have been focused on solutions - OO has exclusively been asking about why fast food and Target have been unable to find workers and Tanq talked about how his friend has struck out on his own, leaving John Deere without a technician. I think our back and forths get sideways so frequently because of this - there is a divergence of what is being discussed that goes unnoticed by either. But I think you might prefer to think you’re mentally superior and assume I’m an idiot given your pension for rudely questioning my intelligence on a regular basis, as opposed to thinking an alternative exists.
(10-28-2021 11:58 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-28-2021 11:42 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-28-2021 11:36 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]From the questioning of Garland's memo on school board meetings, by Ted Cruz.

Senator Cruz: (03:36:32)
Okay. 15 of the 20, on the face of it, are not violent. They’re not threats of violence. They’re parents who are unhappy. Yet miraculously, when you write a memo, the opening line of your memo: “In recent months, there has been a disturbing spike in harassment, intimidation, and threats of violence.” You know what? You didn’t look at nobody on your staff. Did you even look up the 20 instances?

AG Garland: (03:37:00)
As I testified, the decision to send a memo is for an assessment [crosstalk 03:37:06]

Senator Cruz: (03:37:05)
Did you look up the 20 instances?

AG Garland: (03:37:07)
I did not.

Senator Cruz: (03:37:08)
Did anyone on your staff look them up?

AG Garland: (03:37:10)
I don’t know the answer, but it’s not [crosstalk 03:37:12]


Signs off on a memo starting an investigative initiative on violence, where the vast majority of the instances cited in the memo are non-violent, and the weasel doesnt even check.

Just amazing. What a shitbird.

Thank god Merrick didnt get pulled onto the SCOTUS. The dude shouldnt be AG either.

Still better than Holder.

The memo that includes the Loudon father whose daughter was raped in bathroom, and that rape was covered up by the school board, as an example of protest that should be investigated and potentially indication of a crime against the the school board is pretty far down the extreme in inexcusable behavior.

Does it? This is the only link I saw in the memo related to Loudon:

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local...y/2708185/

While it is the same area, it specifically references issues at a meeting on transgender issues, and not this cover up you’re talking about. Perhaps the father was at this meeting and contributed to the dialogue, but it doesn’t seem to be that the example you reference focuses on people being mad about a cover up.
(10-29-2021 05:20 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-28-2021 11:58 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-28-2021 11:42 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-28-2021 11:36 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]From the questioning of Garland's memo on school board meetings, by Ted Cruz.

Senator Cruz: (03:36:32)
Okay. 15 of the 20, on the face of it, are not violent. They’re not threats of violence. They’re parents who are unhappy. Yet miraculously, when you write a memo, the opening line of your memo: “In recent months, there has been a disturbing spike in harassment, intimidation, and threats of violence.” You know what? You didn’t look at nobody on your staff. Did you even look up the 20 instances?

AG Garland: (03:37:00)
As I testified, the decision to send a memo is for an assessment [crosstalk 03:37:06]

Senator Cruz: (03:37:05)
Did you look up the 20 instances?

AG Garland: (03:37:07)
I did not.

Senator Cruz: (03:37:08)
Did anyone on your staff look them up?

AG Garland: (03:37:10)
I don’t know the answer, but it’s not [crosstalk 03:37:12]


Signs off on a memo starting an investigative initiative on violence, where the vast majority of the instances cited in the memo are non-violent, and the weasel doesnt even check.

Just amazing. What a shitbird.

Thank god Merrick didnt get pulled onto the SCOTUS. The dude shouldnt be AG either.

Still better than Holder.

The memo that includes the Loudon father whose daughter was raped in bathroom, and that rape was covered up by the school board, as an example of protest that should be investigated and potentially indication of a crime against the the school board is pretty far down the extreme in inexcusable behavior.

Does it? This is the only link I saw in the memo related to Loudon:

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local...y/2708185/

While it is the same area, it specifically references issues at a meeting on transgender issues, and not this cover up you’re talking about. Perhaps the father was at this meeting and contributed to the dialogue, but it doesn’t seem to be that the example you reference focuses on people being mad about a cover up.

That meeting covered transgender issues. The father of the girl was at this meeting and addressed the policy --- and was restrained and (iirc) arrested at the meeting.

The issues behind the rape is that a guy who was wearing a skirt accessed the girl's restroom and the rape occurred in the restroom.

The school district superintendent knew of the rape the next day. At the June 22 school board meeting at which the father was arrested, he said ""We don’t have any record of assaults occurring in our restrooms."

My apologies that my sentence structure was incorrect. That incident that was glossed over in the memo, but has some very serious backstory. I can see where it would seem that I was noting that the memo included that horrendous backstory. I merely was including the backstory.

Garland plucked that violent incident out and left the backstory bereft in the memo. In fact, in the bolded, he admitted he didnt have a fing clue as to the backstory.

Which, makes the inclusion even more grotesque and even more visible as Garland doing the NSBA a quick turnaround 'Ill write whaever the fk you want me to as a political favor' act.

Even without that very major backstory, the entire structure of the Garland memo gets slimier and slimier. I noted the very major issues within a day or two if him issuing it. His later testimony that neither he, nor his staff, did any checks on the cited items, and that the memo was issued based on the now retracted NSBA letter just leads to it being mroe shallow than my original view.

The later facts surrounding the June 22 arrest of the father being one of the cited examples leads me even more down that path of what a craven, shallow, political act the memo is/was.

Garland is a shitbird of the first order for this.
Zeigler

Maybe this will help, Lad.
(10-29-2021 08:29 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-29-2021 05:20 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-28-2021 11:58 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-28-2021 11:42 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-28-2021 11:36 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]From the questioning of Garland's memo on school board meetings, by Ted Cruz.

Senator Cruz: (03:36:32)
Okay. 15 of the 20, on the face of it, are not violent. They’re not threats of violence. They’re parents who are unhappy. Yet miraculously, when you write a memo, the opening line of your memo: “In recent months, there has been a disturbing spike in harassment, intimidation, and threats of violence.” You know what? You didn’t look at nobody on your staff. Did you even look up the 20 instances?

AG Garland: (03:37:00)
As I testified, the decision to send a memo is for an assessment [crosstalk 03:37:06]

Senator Cruz: (03:37:05)
Did you look up the 20 instances?

AG Garland: (03:37:07)
I did not.

Senator Cruz: (03:37:08)
Did anyone on your staff look them up?

AG Garland: (03:37:10)
I don’t know the answer, but it’s not [crosstalk 03:37:12]


Signs off on a memo starting an investigative initiative on violence, where the vast majority of the instances cited in the memo are non-violent, and the weasel doesnt even check.

Just amazing. What a shitbird.

Thank god Merrick didnt get pulled onto the SCOTUS. The dude shouldnt be AG either.

Still better than Holder.

The memo that includes the Loudon father whose daughter was raped in bathroom, and that rape was covered up by the school board, as an example of protest that should be investigated and potentially indication of a crime against the the school board is pretty far down the extreme in inexcusable behavior.

Does it? This is the only link I saw in the memo related to Loudon:

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local...y/2708185/

While it is the same area, it specifically references issues at a meeting on transgender issues, and not this cover up you’re talking about. Perhaps the father was at this meeting and contributed to the dialogue, but it doesn’t seem to be that the example you reference focuses on people being mad about a cover up.

That meeting covered transgender issues. The father of the girl was at this meeting and addressed the policy --- and was restrained and (iirc) arrested at the meeting.

The issues behind the rape is that a guy who was wearing a skirt accessed the girl's restroom and the rape occurred in the restroom.

The school district superintendent knew of the rape the next day. At the June 22 school board meeting at which the father was arrested, he said ""We don’t have any record of assaults occurring in our restrooms."

My apologies that my sentence structure was incorrect. That incident that was glossed over in the meme has some very serious backstory, of which I concluded as a matter. I can see where it would seem that I was noting that the memo included that horrendous backstory. I merely was including the backstory.

Garland plucked that violent incident out and left the backstory bereft in the memo. In fact, in the bolded, he admitted he didnt have a fing clue as to the backstory.

Which, makes the inclusion even more grotesque and even more visible as Garland doing the NSBA a quick turnaround 'Ill write whaever the fk you want me to as a political favor' act.

Even without that very major backstory, the entire structure of the Garland memo gets slimier and slimier. I noted the very major issues within a day or two if him issuing it. His later testimony that neither he, nor his staff, did any checks on the cited items, and that the memo was issued based on the now retracted NSBA letter just leads to it being mroe shallow than my original view.

The later facts surrounding the June 22 arrest of the father being one of the cited examples leads me even more down that path of what a craven, shallow, political act the memo is/was.

Garland is a shitbird of the first order for this.

I don’t remember Garland’s memo referencing any specific incident. Did the DOJ release a second memo?

The memo I was referencing was the NSBA one that linked to an article about the school board meeting in Loudon.
(10-29-2021 08:53 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-29-2021 08:29 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-29-2021 05:20 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-28-2021 11:58 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-28-2021 11:42 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Still better than Holder.

The memo that includes the Loudon father whose daughter was raped in bathroom, and that rape was covered up by the school board, as an example of protest that should be investigated and potentially indication of a crime against the the school board is pretty far down the extreme in inexcusable behavior.

Does it? This is the only link I saw in the memo related to Loudon:

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local...y/2708185/

While it is the same area, it specifically references issues at a meeting on transgender issues, and not this cover up you’re talking about. Perhaps the father was at this meeting and contributed to the dialogue, but it doesn’t seem to be that the example you reference focuses on people being mad about a cover up.

That meeting covered transgender issues. The father of the girl was at this meeting and addressed the policy --- and was restrained and (iirc) arrested at the meeting.

The issues behind the rape is that a guy who was wearing a skirt accessed the girl's restroom and the rape occurred in the restroom.

The school district superintendent knew of the rape the next day. At the June 22 school board meeting at which the father was arrested, he said ""We don’t have any record of assaults occurring in our restrooms."

My apologies that my sentence structure was incorrect. That incident that was glossed over in the meme has some very serious backstory, of which I concluded as a matter. I can see where it would seem that I was noting that the memo included that horrendous backstory. I merely was including the backstory.

Garland plucked that violent incident out and left the backstory bereft in the memo. In fact, in the bolded, he admitted he didnt have a fing clue as to the backstory.

Which, makes the inclusion even more grotesque and even more visible as Garland doing the NSBA a quick turnaround 'Ill write whaever the fk you want me to as a political favor' act.

Even without that very major backstory, the entire structure of the Garland memo gets slimier and slimier. I noted the very major issues within a day or two if him issuing it. His later testimony that neither he, nor his staff, did any checks on the cited items, and that the memo was issued based on the now retracted NSBA letter just leads to it being mroe shallow than my original view.

The later facts surrounding the June 22 arrest of the father being one of the cited examples leads me even more down that path of what a craven, shallow, political act the memo is/was.

Garland is a shitbird of the first order for this.

I don’t remember Garland’s memo referencing any specific incident. Did the DOJ release a second memo?

The memo I was referencing was the NSBA one that linked to an article about the school board meeting in Loudon.

Garland's memo cited a broad pattern, which he has testified under oath as being specifically based on and referring specifically to the instances in the NSBA letter.

If you look at the full Cruz/Garland interaction you will understand that relationship. And you will understand that both parties acknowledge that relationship.

The NSBA item on Loudon is the June 22 meeting that I note above, and that OO has given a further link to above.
(10-29-2021 08:36 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Zeigler

Maybe this will help, Lad.

Not really - the issue wasn’t me asking about these claims, but rather was this cover up referenced anywhere in the NSBA or Garland memo as an example of threats of violence. That does not appear to be the case based on what the NSBA referenced.
(10-29-2021 09:01 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-29-2021 08:53 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-29-2021 08:29 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-29-2021 05:20 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-28-2021 11:58 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]The memo that includes the Loudon father whose daughter was raped in bathroom, and that rape was covered up by the school board, as an example of protest that should be investigated and potentially indication of a crime against the the school board is pretty far down the extreme in inexcusable behavior.

Does it? This is the only link I saw in the memo related to Loudon:

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local...y/2708185/

While it is the same area, it specifically references issues at a meeting on transgender issues, and not this cover up you’re talking about. Perhaps the father was at this meeting and contributed to the dialogue, but it doesn’t seem to be that the example you reference focuses on people being mad about a cover up.

That meeting covered transgender issues. The father of the girl was at this meeting and addressed the policy --- and was restrained and (iirc) arrested at the meeting.

The issues behind the rape is that a guy who was wearing a skirt accessed the girl's restroom and the rape occurred in the restroom.

The school district superintendent knew of the rape the next day. At the June 22 school board meeting at which the father was arrested, he said ""We don’t have any record of assaults occurring in our restrooms."

My apologies that my sentence structure was incorrect. That incident that was glossed over in the meme has some very serious backstory, of which I concluded as a matter. I can see where it would seem that I was noting that the memo included that horrendous backstory. I merely was including the backstory.

Garland plucked that violent incident out and left the backstory bereft in the memo. In fact, in the bolded, he admitted he didnt have a fing clue as to the backstory.

Which, makes the inclusion even more grotesque and even more visible as Garland doing the NSBA a quick turnaround 'Ill write whaever the fk you want me to as a political favor' act.

Even without that very major backstory, the entire structure of the Garland memo gets slimier and slimier. I noted the very major issues within a day or two if him issuing it. His later testimony that neither he, nor his staff, did any checks on the cited items, and that the memo was issued based on the now retracted NSBA letter just leads to it being mroe shallow than my original view.

The later facts surrounding the June 22 arrest of the father being one of the cited examples leads me even more down that path of what a craven, shallow, political act the memo is/was.

Garland is a shitbird of the first order for this.

I don’t remember Garland’s memo referencing any specific incident. Did the DOJ release a second memo?

The memo I was referencing was the NSBA one that linked to an article about the school board meeting in Loudon.

Garland's memo cited a broad pattern, which he has testified under oath as being specifically based on and referring specifically to the instances in the NSBA letter.

If you look at the full Cruz/Garland interaction you will understand that relationship. And you will understand that both parties acknowledge that relationship.

The NSBA item on Loudon is the June 22 meeting that I note above, and that OO has given a further link to above.

Yeah, but it looks like that meeting also focused more broadly on transgender issues - it wasn’t focused solely on the reported assaults based on the article the NSBA cited. That article even reports that death threats were received in the spring - were those related to the assault cover up?

Your making a leap that may not be there regarding the NSBA and Garland.
(10-29-2021 09:08 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, but it looks like that meeting also focused more broadly on transgender issues ...

Why in the name of all that is holy do we have meetings "focused more broadly on transgender issues"? Why are we spending so much time and effort trying to appease a truly microscopic portion of our population, to the significant detriment of virtually everyone else?

Why does a boy's "right" to use the girls' restroom because he "feels" like a girl outweigh the safety and security of hundreds of girls? Why does a boy's "need" to compete in sports against girls, so he can win, instead of against other boys, where he will lose, and lose badly, outweigh the right of girls to engage in meaningful and fair athletic competition? Girl who can compete with guys, you go girl; guy who can't, sucks to be you.

I'm sorry, but we've got our priorities all wrong here. I realize that there are people who are born intersex, and like any other condition or disease, we need to make reasonable accommodations. But when what's in your head doesn't match what's in your pants, there's something wrong with what's in your head. And we need to treat that, not kowtow to it.
(10-29-2021 09:08 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-29-2021 09:01 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-29-2021 08:53 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-29-2021 08:29 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-29-2021 05:20 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]Does it? This is the only link I saw in the memo related to Loudon:

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local...y/2708185/

While it is the same area, it specifically references issues at a meeting on transgender issues, and not this cover up you’re talking about. Perhaps the father was at this meeting and contributed to the dialogue, but it doesn’t seem to be that the example you reference focuses on people being mad about a cover up.

That meeting covered transgender issues. The father of the girl was at this meeting and addressed the policy --- and was restrained and (iirc) arrested at the meeting.

The issues behind the rape is that a guy who was wearing a skirt accessed the girl's restroom and the rape occurred in the restroom.

The school district superintendent knew of the rape the next day. At the June 22 school board meeting at which the father was arrested, he said ""We don’t have any record of assaults occurring in our restrooms."

My apologies that my sentence structure was incorrect. That incident that was glossed over in the meme has some very serious backstory, of which I concluded as a matter. I can see where it would seem that I was noting that the memo included that horrendous backstory. I merely was including the backstory.

Garland plucked that violent incident out and left the backstory bereft in the memo. In fact, in the bolded, he admitted he didnt have a fing clue as to the backstory.

Which, makes the inclusion even more grotesque and even more visible as Garland doing the NSBA a quick turnaround 'Ill write whaever the fk you want me to as a political favor' act.

Even without that very major backstory, the entire structure of the Garland memo gets slimier and slimier. I noted the very major issues within a day or two if him issuing it. His later testimony that neither he, nor his staff, did any checks on the cited items, and that the memo was issued based on the now retracted NSBA letter just leads to it being mroe shallow than my original view.

The later facts surrounding the June 22 arrest of the father being one of the cited examples leads me even more down that path of what a craven, shallow, political act the memo is/was.

Garland is a shitbird of the first order for this.

I don’t remember Garland’s memo referencing any specific incident. Did the DOJ release a second memo?

The memo I was referencing was the NSBA one that linked to an article about the school board meeting in Loudon.

Garland's memo cited a broad pattern, which he has testified under oath as being specifically based on and referring specifically to the instances in the NSBA letter.

If you look at the full Cruz/Garland interaction you will understand that relationship. And you will understand that both parties acknowledge that relationship.

The NSBA item on Loudon is the June 22 meeting that I note above, and that OO has given a further link to above.

Yeah, but it looks like that meeting also focused more broadly on transgender issues - it wasn’t focused solely on the reported assaults based on the article the NSBA cited. That article even reports that death threats were received in the spring - were those related to the assault cover up?

Your making a leap that may not be there regarding the NSBA and Garland.

The instance of disruption was the arrest of Smith, the father. That is the only thing that meeting is known in the news for.

That video of the arrest went viral in late June with tens of millions of views.

Your story is now that 'the general story' is that that specific meeting isnt being cited for the disruption by Smith, and his rather violent scuffle with police and arrest? Seriously? Do you understand that at the meeting on transgender issues, the father of the daughter whom was raped in the girl's bathroom by a guy wearing a skirt? Seems pretty much on point to even your gross generalization attempt above.

I am very intrigued on how apparently you now claim that a meeting that was fairly well known within days for the violence (and yes, Smith *did* threaten violence against the shitbirds who both enabled the rape of his daughter, and at the same meeting denied (lied about) knowing about it.)

But it was other items at the meeting that arent known or arent rather as infamous as the video, or arent the subject of viral videos for the threat of violence and the violent arrest of the father that occurred, that occurred at the VERY SAME meeting that are instead the basis for inclusion in the NSBA memo listing harrassing and violent acts.

Lad, please dont take us for utter morons.

Quote:Your making a leap that may not be there regarding the NSBA and Garland.

Only if you ignore Garland's own testimony to the House of Representatives in response to Jim Jordan a week or so ago.

In response to a question of what his basis was for the memo, Garland specifically and solely pointed to the NSBA letter. I guess now we should ignore that?

Im only 'making a leap' that Garland himself made in testimony earlier.

In fact, Im only 'making a leap' that Garland himself impliedly makes in his 'defense' of his memo and the basis in NSBA letter in the set-to with Cruz included above.

Wow, Im impressed with the damage control effort you are undertaking here.
(10-29-2021 09:08 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-29-2021 09:01 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-29-2021 08:53 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-29-2021 08:29 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-29-2021 05:20 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]Does it? This is the only link I saw in the memo related to Loudon:

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local...y/2708185/

While it is the same area, it specifically references issues at a meeting on transgender issues, and not this cover up you’re talking about. Perhaps the father was at this meeting and contributed to the dialogue, but it doesn’t seem to be that the example you reference focuses on people being mad about a cover up.

That meeting covered transgender issues. The father of the girl was at this meeting and addressed the policy --- and was restrained and (iirc) arrested at the meeting.

The issues behind the rape is that a guy who was wearing a skirt accessed the girl's restroom and the rape occurred in the restroom.

The school district superintendent knew of the rape the next day. At the June 22 school board meeting at which the father was arrested, he said ""We don’t have any record of assaults occurring in our restrooms."

My apologies that my sentence structure was incorrect. That incident that was glossed over in the meme has some very serious backstory, of which I concluded as a matter. I can see where it would seem that I was noting that the memo included that horrendous backstory. I merely was including the backstory.

Garland plucked that violent incident out and left the backstory bereft in the memo. In fact, in the bolded, he admitted he didnt have a fing clue as to the backstory.

Which, makes the inclusion even more grotesque and even more visible as Garland doing the NSBA a quick turnaround 'Ill write whaever the fk you want me to as a political favor' act.

Even without that very major backstory, the entire structure of the Garland memo gets slimier and slimier. I noted the very major issues within a day or two if him issuing it. His later testimony that neither he, nor his staff, did any checks on the cited items, and that the memo was issued based on the now retracted NSBA letter just leads to it being mroe shallow than my original view.

The later facts surrounding the June 22 arrest of the father being one of the cited examples leads me even more down that path of what a craven, shallow, political act the memo is/was.

Garland is a shitbird of the first order for this.

I don’t remember Garland’s memo referencing any specific incident. Did the DOJ release a second memo?

The memo I was referencing was the NSBA one that linked to an article about the school board meeting in Loudon.

Garland's memo cited a broad pattern, which he has testified under oath as being specifically based on and referring specifically to the instances in the NSBA letter.

If you look at the full Cruz/Garland interaction you will understand that relationship. And you will understand that both parties acknowledge that relationship.

The NSBA item on Loudon is the June 22 meeting that I note above, and that OO has given a further link to above.

Yeah, but it looks like that meeting also focused more broadly on transgender issues - it wasn’t focused solely on the reported assaults based on the article the NSBA cited. That article even reports that death threats were received in the spring - were those related to the assault cover up?

Who gives a rat's ass on what other items were on the agenda of the meeting? Seriously.

Lad, the meeting of the 22nd is known *only* for the violent interaction between Smith, the school board, and the cops.

This is akin to claiming that Dallas Texas on November 22, 1963 is really more well known for the meeting of the Chamber of Commerce that morning at the World Trade Center in downtown Dallas than anything else.
(10-29-2021 09:24 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-29-2021 09:08 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-29-2021 09:01 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-29-2021 08:53 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-29-2021 08:29 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]That meeting covered transgender issues. The father of the girl was at this meeting and addressed the policy --- and was restrained and (iirc) arrested at the meeting.

The issues behind the rape is that a guy who was wearing a skirt accessed the girl's restroom and the rape occurred in the restroom.

The school district superintendent knew of the rape the next day. At the June 22 school board meeting at which the father was arrested, he said ""We don’t have any record of assaults occurring in our restrooms."

My apologies that my sentence structure was incorrect. That incident that was glossed over in the meme has some very serious backstory, of which I concluded as a matter. I can see where it would seem that I was noting that the memo included that horrendous backstory. I merely was including the backstory.

Garland plucked that violent incident out and left the backstory bereft in the memo. In fact, in the bolded, he admitted he didnt have a fing clue as to the backstory.

Which, makes the inclusion even more grotesque and even more visible as Garland doing the NSBA a quick turnaround 'Ill write whaever the fk you want me to as a political favor' act.

Even without that very major backstory, the entire structure of the Garland memo gets slimier and slimier. I noted the very major issues within a day or two if him issuing it. His later testimony that neither he, nor his staff, did any checks on the cited items, and that the memo was issued based on the now retracted NSBA letter just leads to it being mroe shallow than my original view.

The later facts surrounding the June 22 arrest of the father being one of the cited examples leads me even more down that path of what a craven, shallow, political act the memo is/was.

Garland is a shitbird of the first order for this.

I don’t remember Garland’s memo referencing any specific incident. Did the DOJ release a second memo?

The memo I was referencing was the NSBA one that linked to an article about the school board meeting in Loudon.

Garland's memo cited a broad pattern, which he has testified under oath as being specifically based on and referring specifically to the instances in the NSBA letter.

If you look at the full Cruz/Garland interaction you will understand that relationship. And you will understand that both parties acknowledge that relationship.

The NSBA item on Loudon is the June 22 meeting that I note above, and that OO has given a further link to above.

Yeah, but it looks like that meeting also focused more broadly on transgender issues - it wasn’t focused solely on the reported assaults based on the article the NSBA cited. That article even reports that death threats were received in the spring - were those related to the assault cover up?

Your making a leap that may not be there regarding the NSBA and Garland.

The instance of disruption was the arrest of Smith, the father. That is the only thing that meeting is known in the news for.

That video of the arrest went viral in late June with tens of millions of views.

Your story is now that 'the general story' is that that specific meeting isnt being cited for the disruption by Smith, and his rather violent scuffle with police and arrest? Seriously? Do you understand that at the meeting on transgender issues, the father of the daughter whom was raped in the girl's bathroom by a guy wearing a skirt? Seems pretty much on point to even your gross generalization attempt above.

I am very intrigued on how apparently you now claim that a meeting that was fairly well known within days for the violence (and yes, Smith *did* threaten violence against the shitbirds who both enabled the rape of his daughter, and at the same meeting denied (lied about) knowing about it.)

But it was other items at the meeting that arent known or arent rather as infamous as the video, or arent the subject of viral videos for the threat of violence and the violent arrest of the father that occurred, that occurred at the VERY SAME meeting that are instead the basis for inclusion in the NSBA memo listing harrassing and violent acts.

Lad, please dont take us for utter morons.

Quote:Your making a leap that may not be there regarding the NSBA and Garland.

Only if you ignore Garland's own testimony to the House of Representatives in response to Jim Jordan a week or so ago.

In response to a question of what his basis was for the memo, Garland specifically pointed to the NSBA letter. I guess now we should ignore that?

Im only 'making a leap' that Garland himself made in testimony earlier.

In fact, Im only 'making a leap' that Garland himself impliedly makes in his 'defense' of his memo and the basis in NSBA letter in the set-to with Cruz included above.

I’m taking no one for morons. I’m not a Loudon County expert and read the article the NSBA referenced. I don’t see a reference to the assault in it, which is the basis for my comments.
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