(04-20-2018 01:17 PM)BufflOwl Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018 01:01 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018 12:57 PM)BufflOwl Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018 12:45 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018 12:25 PM)BufflOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Who is defending a coach? Are you actually reading the posts??
See the bolded in your statements above. Seems clear to me that the statement that baseball was "killed" means that those for whom you speak believe the fault lies outside the program itself. Now, if by that they mean that Graham should have been replaced a long time ago - ok, that's different.
How long have been getting told to shut up about a decline in the program? How many times have I been told I don’t know what the job of the Administration was when they weren’t making decisions? How many times has someone told me to stop being critical of players and coaches being held accountable for both on field and off field success?
Thanks for the credit where it’s due.
So are you speaking for several former players, or one former player with several user names?
Oh, and I don't agree that Graham should have been replaced years ago.
In both baseball and football it was the lack of decisiveness on who was and will be the head coach, what will be the fundraising projects that move forward and whats included in them, scheduling changes, student-athlete development roles and more from the AD himself that ran both to the points of irrelevancy they are now.
That’s from several former student-athletes you care about but don’t feel comfortable posting here. And yes, they made those feelings clear to the President and BOT. I just share here.
They saw it coming from a long ways off, even though nobody wanted to hear it. That’s all I’ve said on here for several years. Now we are all here and it’s JK with the contract extension... so it’s a moot point. I think I can stop posting.
Maybe the big fundraising push can help. That’s a big maybe. Enjoy the rest of your thread, weekend and baseball season.
P.S. Numbers still said what he’s saying he didn’t say.
Okay, I want you to explain to me how saying, repeatedly, that baseball is the reason why Rice has D-1 athletics today is somehow belittling or minimizing the importance or contribution of baseball, or saying anything that should offend any former baseball player.
It appears that you seem to think your role here is to show up, contribute nothing of substantive value, pick things out of context to criticize, and generally be a jerk. I’ll give you a chance to add something worthwhile. Since you seem to want to disagree with everyone, what do you propose that we do? Should we fire Graham, extend him, let his contract run out, give him a farewell cruise with the heir apparent in place, what? And since no matter what it’s inevitable that we have someone else coaching the team at some point, what are your thoughts about who that should be?
Instead of just constantly complaining, try to add something of value.
(04-20-2018 02:37 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018 01:17 PM)BufflOwl Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018 01:01 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018 12:57 PM)BufflOwl Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018 12:45 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ]See the bolded in your statements above. Seems clear to me that the statement that baseball was "killed" means that those for whom you speak believe the fault lies outside the program itself. Now, if by that they mean that Graham should have been replaced a long time ago - ok, that's different.
How long have been getting told to shut up about a decline in the program? How many times have I been told I don’t know what the job of the Administration was when they weren’t making decisions? How many times has someone told me to stop being critical of players and coaches being held accountable for both on field and off field success?
Thanks for the credit where it’s due.
So are you speaking for several former players, or one former player with several user names?
Oh, and I don't agree that Graham should have been replaced years ago.
In both baseball and football it was the lack of decisiveness on who was and will be the head coach, what will be the fundraising projects that move forward and whats included in them, scheduling changes, student-athlete development roles and more from the AD himself that ran both to the points of irrelevancy they are now.
That’s from several former student-athletes you care about but don’t feel comfortable posting here. And yes, they made those feelings clear to the President and BOT. I just share here.
They saw it coming from a long ways off, even though nobody wanted to hear it. That’s all I’ve said on here for several years. Now we are all here and it’s JK with the contract extension... so it’s a moot point. I think I can stop posting.
Maybe the big fundraising push can help. That’s a big maybe. Enjoy the rest of your thread, weekend and baseball season.
P.S. Numbers still said what he’s saying he didn’t say.
Okay, I want you to explain to me how saying, repeatedly, that baseball is the reason why Rice has D-1 athletics today is somehow belittling or minimizing the importance or contribution of baseball, or saying anything that should offend any former baseball player.
It appears that you seem to think your role here is to show up, contribute nothing of substantive value, pick things out of context to criticize, and generally be a jerk. I’ll give you a chance to add something worthwhile. Since you seem to want to disagree with everyone, what do you propose that we do? Should we fire Graham, extend him, let his contract run out, give him a farewell cruise with the heir apparent in place, what? And since no matter what it’s inevitable that we have someone else coaching the team at some point, what are your thoughts about who that should be?
Instead of just constantly complaining, try to add something of value.
1. Please read the other posts I’ve put up. Like the whole conversation. I’ve done no complaining and all explaining.
2. Can you at least admit you did say what you then later said you didn’t? I typed it in bold for you and an “ok fine I said that” will work.
Great cat fight we have going on here
(04-20-2018 12:17 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018 12:13 PM)illiniowl Wrote: [ -> ]Oh for heaven's sake. No one has said anything disrespectful to Rice Baseball. All I see is a bunch of overreaction to some posts that - heaven forbid - used the words "not important" and "baseball" in apparently too close proximity, but any fair reading of those posts would show that they are simply making the point that no baseball program can, in a real world sense, carry an athletic department, much less a university. None of that implies that we can't or shouldn't care about baseball, or give it as much support as possible. Look, I was a nonrevenue sport athlete myself and I'm sure I grumbled at times about every other sport's low place in the food chain compared to football but the reality is that the best thing that could happen for EVERY sport at Rice is for football to get healthy and help us move back up in conference affiliation. That is what is meant by relative "importance." And no one as far as I can see has even suggested that we divert baseball or any other sport's resources to football to make that happen, either.
On the contrary, if rumor be true, it's football's resources getting diverted under Karlgaard, at least in his first couple of years.
Baseball was also diverted at first, but the reduction was offset by the very healthy RBI Club contributions.
(04-20-2018 02:46 PM)BufflOwl Wrote: [ -> ]1. Please read the other posts I’ve put up. Like the whole conversation. I’ve done no complaining and all explaining.
I did. You didn't.
Quote:2. Can you at least admit you did say what you then later said you didn’t? I typed it in bold for you and an “ok fine I said that” will work.
I don't see anything bolded, so I'll go with this. I've said many times, baseball has carried the athletic program for 20 years because football and basketball didn't. OK, fine, I said that.
(04-20-2018 01:53 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018 01:38 PM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ]Arsene Wenger stepping down after this season.
https://www.arsenal.com/news/merci-arsene
Tangential, but a classy way to go out. We can learn something from this.
From that article, I can tell nothing about the circumstances behind it. Was Arsene allowed to resign? Well, so was Greenspan. Just sayin'.
Wenger has been coaching for forever. However over the last several years Arsenal has fallen behind their peers in the championship race. As a result, pressure has been building for a change.
Wenger either was told he was going to be fired at the end of the season and chose a graceful exit or came to the realization that this was it and stepped down.
This wasn't a scandal Greenspan thing. Aresenal isn't what it once was, but things aren't a flaming trainwreck... as a result, Wenger is going out on top and will be celebrated as a top coach.
Karlgaard diverted resources from football (which he tacitly admitted to in one of his podcasts (the second-to-last one, if I recall) and now I’m learning, baseball.
Where exactly he was putting these diverted resources is unclear.
As I understand it, football's percentage share was decreased. That's not the same as the budget cuts that also took place, not because Karlgaard is evil and has it in for Graham and baseball, but because conference revenue is miserably small.
(04-20-2018 04:07 PM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018 01:53 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018 01:38 PM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ]Arsene Wenger stepping down after this season.
https://www.arsenal.com/news/merci-arsene
Tangential, but a classy way to go out. We can learn something from this.
From that article, I can tell nothing about the circumstances behind it. Was Arsene allowed to resign? Well, so was Greenspan. Just sayin'.
Wenger has been coaching for forever. However over the last several years Arsenal has fallen behind their peers in the championship race. As a result, pressure has been building for a change.
Wenger either was told he was going to be fired at the end of the season and chose a graceful exit or came to the realization that this was it and stepped down.
This wasn't a scandal Greenspan thing. Aresenal isn't what it once was, but things aren't a flaming trainwreck... as a result, Wenger is going out on top and will be celebrated as a top coach.
Not an assessment shared by Gunners fans in the hilarious Arsenal Fan TV clips they like to show on Men in Blazers!
I confess to only casually following the Premier League through the aforementioned Men in Blazers but my impression has been that "Wenger Out!" signs and even skywriting have been quite prevalent for a few seasons now. I mean, is there not a sizable contingent of Arsenal supporters who feel that a year or two or more were wasted in waiting for Wenger to retire of his own accord?
TBH, I'm not entirely sure that even if Graham is given the 1-year extension he wants, that we don't somehow end up having this same debate a year from now, with him saying to reporters that he feels great (which I hope he does, of course) and doesn't want to hang it up, etc.
IOW, two parties have to coordinate for there to be a graceful exit for a champion and I'm actually a little more confident of Rice being able to hold up its end of that bargain than I am Coach Graham, who by all accounts is a supreme competitor for whom quitting or retirement is anathema.
(04-20-2018 05:19 PM)illiniowl Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018 04:07 PM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018 01:53 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018 01:38 PM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ]Arsene Wenger stepping down after this season.
https://www.arsenal.com/news/merci-arsene
Tangential, but a classy way to go out. We can learn something from this.
From that article, I can tell nothing about the circumstances behind it. Was Arsene allowed to resign? Well, so was Greenspan. Just sayin'.
Wenger has been coaching for forever. However over the last several years Arsenal has fallen behind their peers in the championship race. As a result, pressure has been building for a change.
Wenger either was told he was going to be fired at the end of the season and chose a graceful exit or came to the realization that this was it and stepped down.
This wasn't a scandal Greenspan thing. Aresenal isn't what it once was, but things aren't a flaming trainwreck... as a result, Wenger is going out on top and will be celebrated as a top coach.
Not an assessment shared by Gunners fans in the hilarious Arsenal Fan TV clips they like to show on Men in Blazers!
I confess to only casually following the Premier League through the aforementioned Men in Blazers but my impression has been that "Wenger Out!" signs and even skywriting have been quite prevalent for a few seasons now. I mean, is there not a sizable contingent of Arsenal supporters who feel that a year or two or more were wasted in waiting for Wenger to retire of his own accord?
TBH, I'm not entirely sure that even if Graham is given the 1-year extension he wants, that we don't somehow end up having this same debate a year from now, with him saying to reporters that he feels great (which I hope he does, of course) and doesn't want to hang it up, etc.
IOW, two parties have to coordinate for there to be a graceful exit for a champion and I'm actually a little more confident of Rice being able to hold up its end of that bargain than I am Coach Graham, who by all accounts is a supreme competitor for whom quitting or retirement is anathema.
I'd say that every fan base near the top has a flair for the dramatic. Yes, Arsenal went from winning and in the top 3 to top 5, but it isn't like they went from top 5 to top 50 to getting relegated or thereabouts.
I personally feel a change has been needed for the last few years, but Arsenal has at least won the FA Cup recently and plays near the top of the division. A fall from the peak, but the wheels haven't completely come off.
(04-20-2018 04:07 PM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018 01:53 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018 01:38 PM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ]Arsene Wenger stepping down after this season.
https://www.arsenal.com/news/merci-arsene
Tangential, but a classy way to go out. We can learn something from this.
From that article, I can tell nothing about the circumstances behind it. Was Arsene allowed to resign? Well, so was Greenspan. Just sayin'.
Wenger has been coaching for forever. However over the last several years Arsenal has fallen behind their peers in the championship race. As a result, pressure has been building for a change.
Wenger either was told he was going to be fired at the end of the season and chose a graceful exit or came to the realization that this was it and stepped down.
This wasn't a scandal Greenspan thing. Aresenal isn't what it once was, but things aren't a flaming trainwreck... as a result, Wenger is going out on top and will be celebrated as a top coach.
It is a pretty big stretch to say that Wenger is going out on top. Perhaps if he had stepped down in 2006 that would be the case. The last decade has been a progressive decline in results for Arsenal and a position squarely in the second tier of Premier League clubs.
(04-20-2018 05:19 PM)illiniowl Wrote: [ -> ]IOW, two parties have to coordinate for there to be a graceful exit for a champion and I'm actually a little more confident of Rice being able to hold up its end of that bargain than I am Coach Graham, who by all accounts is a supreme competitor for whom quitting or retirement is anathema.
"A supreme competitor" would not allow sub-standard performance to persist from any of his players. Why not apply that same standard to his current performance? Graham should be able to relate to that line of thought.
Graham doesn't want to quit coaching, that's the problem. A deadline needs to be set by JK and if Graham doesn't agree to the graceful exit by that deadline, then the swift exit must be pursued. JK's job is on the line here -- if he doesn't realize that, then he should.
(04-21-2018 08:26 AM)Volente Beach Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018 05:19 PM)illiniowl Wrote: [ -> ]IOW, two parties have to coordinate for there to be a graceful exit for a champion and I'm actually a little more confident of Rice being able to hold up its end of that bargain than I am Coach Graham, who by all accounts is a supreme competitor for whom quitting or retirement is anathema.
"A supreme competitor" would not allow sub-standard performance to persist from any of his players. Why not apply that same standard to his current performance? Graham should be able to relate to that line of thought.
Graham doesn't want to quit coaching, that's the problem. A deadline needs to be set by JK and if Graham doesn't agree to the graceful exit by that deadline, then the swift exit must be pursued. JK's job is on the line here -- if he doesn't realize that, then he should.
I really feel for the AD and the OG.
Dr K has a tough job and will receive criticism no matter what the decision is. Although to me the decision is pretty obvious.
The OG wants to coach. I'm not one to say that the game has past him by, but despite his considerable and well-deserved reputation, the game is not clamoring for his services.... or those of any other octogenarian. It's always hard for old guys to grasp that fact at first. (Believe me, I speak about that with some authority.) but sooner or later it sinks in... see Elizabeth Kubler-Ross. If the concept of bowing out gracefully is not something to which he's given serious thought, he needs to. Digging in his heels could wind up being embarrassing and tragic for him, the AD and the University. It doesn't have to be that way.
(04-21-2018 12:56 PM)greyowl72 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2018 08:26 AM)Volente Beach Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018 05:19 PM)illiniowl Wrote: [ -> ]IOW, two parties have to coordinate for there to be a graceful exit for a champion and I'm actually a little more confident of Rice being able to hold up its end of that bargain than I am Coach Graham, who by all accounts is a supreme competitor for whom quitting or retirement is anathema.
"A supreme competitor" would not allow sub-standard performance to persist from any of his players. Why not apply that same standard to his current performance? Graham should be able to relate to that line of thought.
Graham doesn't want to quit coaching, that's the problem. A deadline needs to be set by JK and if Graham doesn't agree to the graceful exit by that deadline, then the swift exit must be pursued. JK's job is on the line here -- if he doesn't realize that, then he should.
I really feel for the AD and the OG.
Dr K has a tough job and will receive criticism no matter what the decision is. Although to me the decision is pretty obvious.
The OG wants to coach. I'm not one to say that the game has past him by, but despite his considerable and well-deserved reputation, the game is not clamoring for his services.... or those of any other octogenarian. It's always hard for old guys to grasp that fact at first. (Believe me, I speak about that with some authority.) but sooner or later it sinks in... see Elizabeth Kubler-Ross. If the concept of bowing out gracefully is not something to which he's given serious thought, he needs to. Digging in his heels could wind up being embarrassing and tragic for him, the AD and the University. It doesn't have to be that way.
The heels are clearly dug in when he’s seeking local media to spread the word how he’s going to keep coaching.
(04-21-2018 08:01 AM)Rice93 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018 04:07 PM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018 01:53 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018 01:38 PM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ]Arsene Wenger stepping down after this season.
https://www.arsenal.com/news/merci-arsene
Tangential, but a classy way to go out. We can learn something from this.
From that article, I can tell nothing about the circumstances behind it. Was Arsene allowed to resign? Well, so was Greenspan. Just sayin'.
Wenger has been coaching for forever. However over the last several years Arsenal has fallen behind their peers in the championship race. As a result, pressure has been building for a change.
Wenger either was told he was going to be fired at the end of the season and chose a graceful exit or came to the realization that this was it and stepped down.
This wasn't a scandal Greenspan thing. Aresenal isn't what it once was, but things aren't a flaming trainwreck... as a result, Wenger is going out on top and will be celebrated as a top coach.
It is a pretty big stretch to say that Wenger is going out on top. Perhaps if he had stepped down in 2006 that would be the case. The last decade has been a progressive decline in results for Arsenal and a position squarely in the second tier of Premier League clubs.
Well, yes. I meant it relative to our situation. Even then, Wenger and Arsenal were hovering in the top 5 range, albeit no longer truly threatening to win it all.
The last few years haven't been great for Arsenal but the wheels haven't totally fallen off yet. Arsenal is still going to be hiring from a position of strength.
(04-21-2018 12:56 PM)greyowl72 Wrote: [ -> ]Dr K has a tough job and will receive criticism no matter what the decision is.
I actually disagree with the comment above. I have spoken to no one who wants to have Graham back for another year. Literally no one. JK's decision is easy. The only people that will question it are people outside of the program/area -- the people following the team closely can see that the momentum is lost and we are trending in the wrong direction. Sounds harsh, but it's true, and change is best for the program. For goodness sake, we kept him deep into his EIGHTIES -- it's not like we are prematurely pulling the ripcord here.
I’m reminded of Winston Churchill’s comment to the effect that that Americans always do the right thing, after exhausting all other possibilities.
(04-21-2018 09:05 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ]I’m reminded of Winston Churchill’s comment to the effect that that Americans always do the right thing, after exhausting all other possibilities.
Kendall Rogers
Kendall Rogers
@KendallRogers
.@RiceBaseball coach Wayne Graham did tell me today he expects clarity on his future with #Rice and his contract in the next week or so. Will be interesting to see what happens.
(04-21-2018 02:58 PM)cr11owl Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2018 12:56 PM)greyowl72 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2018 08:26 AM)Volente Beach Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018 05:19 PM)illiniowl Wrote: [ -> ]IOW, two parties have to coordinate for there to be a graceful exit for a champion and I'm actually a little more confident of Rice being able to hold up its end of that bargain than I am Coach Graham, who by all accounts is a supreme competitor for whom quitting or retirement is anathema.
"A supreme competitor" would not allow sub-standard performance to persist from any of his players. Why not apply that same standard to his current performance? Graham should be able to relate to that line of thought.
Graham doesn't want to quit coaching, that's the problem. A deadline needs to be set by JK and if Graham doesn't agree to the graceful exit by that deadline, then the swift exit must be pursued. JK's job is on the line here -- if he doesn't realize that, then he should.
I really feel for the AD and the OG.
Dr K has a tough job and will receive criticism no matter what the decision is. Although to me the decision is pretty obvious.
The OG wants to coach. I'm not one to say that the game has past him by, but despite his considerable and well-deserved reputation, the game is not clamoring for his services.... or those of any other octogenarian. It's always hard for old guys to grasp that fact at first. (Believe me, I speak about that with some authority.) but sooner or later it sinks in... see Elizabeth Kubler-Ross. If the concept of bowing out gracefully is not something to which he's given serious thought, he needs to. Digging in his heels could wind up being embarrassing and tragic for him, the AD and the University. It doesn't have to be that way.
The heels are clearly dug in when he’s seeking local media to spread the word how he’s going to keep coaching.
https://twitter.com/cb_daily/status/9878...15200?s=21
If this is true it makes the recent media commenting even worse.
