(03-18-2018 09:26 PM)uconnbaseball Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 08:59 PM)flash3200 Wrote: [ -> ]Will Riser still be available in 5 years?
I am surprised Tulane didn't pick him up when Pierce left for UT. I support giving Graham a 1 year extension for all he has done for Rice, but if he is not given an extension I would like to see us snatch up Riser before one of the p5 schools.
The way our team is playing why should we continue this misery? This would literally only be an issue at Rice and it’s why we are where we are.
Won’t be buying season tickets for any sport if Graham is not gone after this season.
Going to play the same hard ball tactics that some played with football over the last few years.
(03-18-2018 09:28 PM)cr11owl Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 09:26 PM)uconnbaseball Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 08:59 PM)flash3200 Wrote: [ -> ]Will Riser still be available in 5 years?
I am surprised Tulane didn't pick him up when Pierce left for UT. I support giving Graham a 1 year extension for all he has done for Rice, but if he is not given an extension I would like to see us snatch up Riser before one of the p5 schools.
The way our team is playing why should we continue this misery? This would literally only be an issue at Rice and it’s why we are where we are.
I don't disagree but the way this contract situation has been handled in bloody appalling. Graham doesn't deserve to be cut loose like Braun or Bailiff. If the decision was made to have a change, Rice should have made the year a victory lap of sorts like Kobe or Jeter got.
He deserves a graceful exit. And I think we have screwed the pooch on that one.
(03-18-2018 11:38 PM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 09:28 PM)cr11owl Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 09:26 PM)uconnbaseball Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 08:59 PM)flash3200 Wrote: [ -> ]Will Riser still be available in 5 years?
I am surprised Tulane didn't pick him up when Pierce left for UT. I support giving Graham a 1 year extension for all he has done for Rice, but if he is not given an extension I would like to see us snatch up Riser before one of the p5 schools.
The way our team is playing why should we continue this misery? This would literally only be an issue at Rice and it’s why we are where we are.
I don't disagree but the way this contract situation has been handled in bloody appalling. Graham doesn't deserve to be cut loose like Braun or Bailiff. If the decision was made to have a change, Rice should have made the year a victory lap of sorts like Kobe or Jeter got.
He deserves a graceful exit. And I think we have screwed the pooch on that one.
I agree. I think it should’ve been made clear he wasn’t being extended and this would be his victory lap. For all we know that is the case and he just didn’t accept it. We have 1 poster here who says that isn’t the case but that poster also assured us that JK was going to get rid of Bailiff a year earlier than he did if the results weren’t there.
(03-18-2018 09:27 PM)cr11owl Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 09:22 PM)Ranger Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 08:59 PM)flash3200 Wrote: [ -> ]Will Riser still be available in 5 years?
Pierce wasn’t.
The start of our current predicament was when Pierce left. One slow downward slide...
Now that I think about, you are probably right.
(03-18-2018 11:38 PM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 09:28 PM)cr11owl Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 09:26 PM)uconnbaseball Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 08:59 PM)flash3200 Wrote: [ -> ]Will Riser still be available in 5 years?
I am surprised Tulane didn't pick him up when Pierce left for UT. I support giving Graham a 1 year extension for all he has done for Rice, but if he is not given an extension I would like to see us snatch up Riser before one of the p5 schools.
The way our team is playing why should we continue this misery? This would literally only be an issue at Rice and it’s why we are where we are.
I don't disagree but the way this contract situation has been handled in bloody appalling. Graham doesn't deserve to be cut loose like Braun or Bailiff. If the decision was made to have a change, Rice should have made the year a victory lap of sorts like Kobe or Jeter got.
He deserves a graceful exit. And I think we have screwed the pooch on that one.
How can you be certain he was willing to accept a graceful exit?
(03-19-2018 08:00 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 11:38 PM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 09:28 PM)cr11owl Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 09:26 PM)uconnbaseball Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 08:59 PM)flash3200 Wrote: [ -> ]Will Riser still be available in 5 years?
I am surprised Tulane didn't pick him up when Pierce left for UT. I support giving Graham a 1 year extension for all he has done for Rice, but if he is not given an extension I would like to see us snatch up Riser before one of the p5 schools.
The way our team is playing why should we continue this misery? This would literally only be an issue at Rice and it’s why we are where we are.
I don't disagree but the way this contract situation has been handled in bloody appalling. Graham doesn't deserve to be cut loose like Braun or Bailiff. If the decision was made to have a change, Rice should have made the year a victory lap of sorts like Kobe or Jeter got.
He deserves a graceful exit. And I think we have screwed the pooch on that one.
How can you be certain he was willing to accept a graceful exit?
Or that he was offered a 1 year extension with him declaring it would be his final year so he could be lauded and he refused?
As for Van Hook or Hallmark....a big no thank you.
He keeps saying he has another ~5 years in him and some people out there apparently don't mind giving it to him because yada yada. That is why I asked the halfway sarcastic question of Riser's availability in 5 years.
To be devil's advocate on WG's side, when has Rice ever tried to maintain any sort of minimum performance standard in athletics? Why start now?
(03-19-2018 08:00 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 11:38 PM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 09:28 PM)cr11owl Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 09:26 PM)uconnbaseball Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 08:59 PM)flash3200 Wrote: [ -> ]Will Riser still be available in 5 years?
I am surprised Tulane didn't pick him up when Pierce left for UT. I support giving Graham a 1 year extension for all he has done for Rice, but if he is not given an extension I would like to see us snatch up Riser before one of the p5 schools.
The way our team is playing why should we continue this misery? This would literally only be an issue at Rice and it’s why we are where we are.
I don't disagree but the way this contract situation has been handled in bloody appalling. Graham doesn't deserve to be cut loose like Braun or Bailiff. If the decision was made to have a change, Rice should have made the year a victory lap of sorts like Kobe or Jeter got.
He deserves a graceful exit. And I think we have screwed the pooch on that one.
How can you be certain he was willing to accept a graceful exit?
You aren't sure. But then Rice should have been clear and up front with their intentions regardless. Probably would have stirred some controversy but it is surely better than what's going on now.
I guess what I mean is Rice should have done the right thing publicly.
(03-19-2018 08:17 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (03-19-2018 08:00 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 11:38 PM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 09:28 PM)cr11owl Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 09:26 PM)uconnbaseball Wrote: [ -> ]I am surprised Tulane didn't pick him up when Pierce left for UT. I support giving Graham a 1 year extension for all he has done for Rice, but if he is not given an extension I would like to see us snatch up Riser before one of the p5 schools.
The way our team is playing why should we continue this misery? This would literally only be an issue at Rice and it’s why we are where we are.
I don't disagree but the way this contract situation has been handled in bloody appalling. Graham doesn't deserve to be cut loose like Braun or Bailiff. If the decision was made to have a change, Rice should have made the year a victory lap of sorts like Kobe or Jeter got.
He deserves a graceful exit. And I think we have screwed the pooch on that one.
How can you be certain he was willing to accept a graceful exit?
Or that he was offered a 1 year extension with him declaring it would be his final year so he could be lauded and he refused?
As for Van Hook or Hallmark....a big no thank you.
Tiki, I agree with you on Hallmark and, especially, Van Hook....but you're dead wrong on your comment regarding Wayne. That just wasn't the case.
(03-19-2018 08:34 AM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ] (03-19-2018 08:00 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 11:38 PM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 09:28 PM)cr11owl Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 09:26 PM)uconnbaseball Wrote: [ -> ]I am surprised Tulane didn't pick him up when Pierce left for UT. I support giving Graham a 1 year extension for all he has done for Rice, but if he is not given an extension I would like to see us snatch up Riser before one of the p5 schools.
The way our team is playing why should we continue this misery? This would literally only be an issue at Rice and it’s why we are where we are.
I don't disagree but the way this contract situation has been handled in bloody appalling. Graham doesn't deserve to be cut loose like Braun or Bailiff. If the decision was made to have a change, Rice should have made the year a victory lap of sorts like Kobe or Jeter got.
He deserves a graceful exit. And I think we have screwed the pooch on that one.
How can you be certain he was willing to accept a graceful exit?
You aren't sure. But then Rice should have been clear and up front with their intentions regardless. Probably would have stirred some controversy but it is surely better than what's going on now.
I guess what I mean is Rice should have done the right thing publicly.
Publicly? I doubt many people beyond the few members of Parliament that are discussing this are even aware.
I don't know what's left to clarify, anyway. Graham won't get an extension unless he pulls off a miracle. Seems obvious.
What's the etiquette for announcing that? How is that done respectfully?
(03-19-2018 08:44 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ]Publicly? I doubt many people beyond the few members of Parliament that are discussing this are even aware.
I don't know what's left to clarify, anyway. Graham won't get an extension unless he pulls off a miracle. Seems obvious.
What's the etiquette for announcing that? How is that done respectfully?
Want to address two distinct points.
1.
Graham won't get an extension unless he pulls off a miracle. Seems obvious.
This is a problem in my book. This indicates continued fly-by-night/shoot from the hip decision making. We could get lucky and somehow stumble our way to the end - does that really fix the underlying issue? Similarly a team (like UVa) could mess up big at the end. Neither should a decision rely on.
Decision making has go to be at a higher level than looking at miraculous turnarounds. If JK feels that a change is needed then nothing that happens this season should affect that.. especially not a miracle (which implies something crazy and likely not repeatable long term happened)
2. We have a lame duck coach. Publicly means announcing intent for a change to recruits, to fans etc. Sure, ESPN won't be lining up to run a primetime segment on it, but the handful that do care (and especially the recruits) should know.
In summary, whats left to clarify in my book is do we have a plan? Or are we going to continue playing Indiana Jones with decisions?
(03-19-2018 08:44 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (03-19-2018 08:34 AM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ] (03-19-2018 08:00 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 11:38 PM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2018 09:28 PM)cr11owl Wrote: [ -> ]The way our team is playing why should we continue this misery? This would literally only be an issue at Rice and it’s why we are where we are.
I don't disagree but the way this contract situation has been handled in bloody appalling. Graham doesn't deserve to be cut loose like Braun or Bailiff. If the decision was made to have a change, Rice should have made the year a victory lap of sorts like Kobe or Jeter got.
He deserves a graceful exit. And I think we have screwed the pooch on that one.
How can you be certain he was willing to accept a graceful exit?
You aren't sure. But then Rice should have been clear and up front with their intentions regardless. Probably would have stirred some controversy but it is surely better than what's going on now.
I guess what I mean is Rice should have done the right thing publicly.
Publicly? I doubt many people beyond the few members of Parliament that are discussing this are even aware.
I don't know what's left to clarify, anyway. Graham won't get an extension unless he pulls off a miracle. Seems obvious.
What's the etiquette for announcing that? How is that done respectfully?
So rather than talk about the current baseball coaches , what about WG's successor?
From JK's past hires, i am hoping we will get a top assistant from a good academic school (like UVA, Vandy, of course Stanford) who is a great recruiter in an area w talent. Hopefully he would retain or hire assistants w Texas recruiting ties . This approach may open up areas beyond Texas to snare a recruit or 2 a year that might be all the difference we need.
At this point, I'd settle for a head coach that actually recruits.
(03-19-2018 12:05 PM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ] (03-19-2018 08:44 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ]Publicly? I doubt many people beyond the few members of Parliament that are discussing this are even aware.
I don't know what's left to clarify, anyway. Graham won't get an extension unless he pulls off a miracle. Seems obvious.
What's the etiquette for announcing that? How is that done respectfully?
Want to address two distinct points.
1. Graham won't get an extension unless he pulls off a miracle. Seems obvious.
This is a problem in my book. This indicates continued fly-by-night/shoot from the hip decision making. We could get lucky and somehow stumble our way to the end - does that really fix the underlying issue? Similarly a team (like UVa) could mess up big at the end. Neither should a decision rely on.
Decision making has go to be at a higher level than looking at miraculous turnarounds. If JK feels that a change is needed then nothing that happens this season should affect that.. especially not a miracle (which implies something crazy and likely not repeatable long term happened)
2. We have a lame duck coach. Publicly means announcing intent for a change to recruits, to fans etc. Sure, ESPN won't be lining up to run a primetime segment on it, but the handful that do care (and especially the recruits) should know.
In summary, whats left to clarify in my book is do we have a plan? Or are we going to continue playing Indiana Jones with decisions?
Season ends, coach is let go, new coach is hired. SOP for every school everywhere. Since when has any AD anywhere stated that the upcoming season will be the last for a coach that doesn't want to leave?
A coach might announce that he will be retiring at the end of the current season, but the AD doesn't do that for him.
I have no doubt that JK is already doing his homework, just as he was doing before the end of Bailiff's last season.
(03-19-2018 12:05 PM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ]Want to address two distinct points.
1. Graham won't get an extension unless he pulls off a miracle. Seems obvious.
This is a problem in my book. This indicates continued fly-by-night/shoot from the hip decision making. We could get lucky and somehow stumble our way to the end - does that really fix the underlying issue? Similarly a team (like UVa) could mess up big at the end. Neither should a decision rely on.
Decision making has go to be at a higher level than looking at miraculous turnarounds. If JK feels that a change is needed then nothing that happens this season should affect that.. especially not a miracle (which implies something crazy and likely not repeatable long term happened)
2. We have a lame duck coach. Publicly means announcing intent for a change to recruits, to fans etc. Sure, ESPN won't be lining up to run a primetime segment on it, but the handful that do care (and especially the recruits) should know.
In summary, whats left to clarify in my book is do we have a plan? Or are we going to continue playing Indiana Jones with decisions?
1. Miracle runs through the conference tournament into the NCAA tournament have saved many coaches over the years.
2. Publicly announcing that you plan to fire your legendary coach at the end of this season no matter how well the team does might impress a couple of clueless fans who think that they deserve to "know the truth", but it would not impress any current players, recruits, or most fans.
If JK had announced a one year extension at the beginning of this season, he would be getting a ton of grief for extending the period of decline by an extra year.
In the absence of the requested extension, Graham wanted a chance to coach for his job this year. JK is giving him that chance. I think that JK has handled this situation very well.
(03-19-2018 12:41 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (03-19-2018 12:05 PM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ] (03-19-2018 08:44 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ]Publicly? I doubt many people beyond the few members of Parliament that are discussing this are even aware.
I don't know what's left to clarify, anyway. Graham won't get an extension unless he pulls off a miracle. Seems obvious.
What's the etiquette for announcing that? How is that done respectfully?
Want to address two distinct points.
1. Graham won't get an extension unless he pulls off a miracle. Seems obvious.
This is a problem in my book. This indicates continued fly-by-night/shoot from the hip decision making. We could get lucky and somehow stumble our way to the end - does that really fix the underlying issue? Similarly a team (like UVa) could mess up big at the end. Neither should a decision rely on.
Decision making has go to be at a higher level than looking at miraculous turnarounds. If JK feels that a change is needed then nothing that happens this season should affect that.. especially not a miracle (which implies something crazy and likely not repeatable long term happened)
2. We have a lame duck coach. Publicly means announcing intent for a change to recruits, to fans etc. Sure, ESPN won't be lining up to run a primetime segment on it, but the handful that do care (and especially the recruits) should know.
In summary, whats left to clarify in my book is do we have a plan? Or are we going to continue playing Indiana Jones with decisions?
Season ends, coach is let go, new coach is hired. SOP for every school everywhere. Since when has any AD anywhere stated that the upcoming season will be the last for a coach that doesn't want to leave?
A coach might announce that he will be retiring at the end of the current season, but the AD doesn't do that for him.
I have no doubt that JK is already doing his homework, just as he was doing before the end of Bailiff's last season.
Bailiff had 2 years on his contract when that homework was going on. And he was fired with a year left.
(03-19-2018 12:41 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ]Season ends, coach is let go, new coach is hired. SOP for every school everywhere. Since when has any AD anywhere stated that the upcoming season will be the last for a coach that doesn't want to leave?
A coach might announce that he will be retiring at the end of the current season, but the AD doesn't do that for him.
I have no doubt that JK is already doing his homework, just as he was doing before the end of Bailiff's last season.
To the bolded, Illinois did it with Lou Henson in basketball. Henson wanted an extension to finish his career at Illinois on his own terms. The AD said no, you can have a one-year victory lap after which you're done. Henson accepted that arrangement -- Illinois missed the tournament for the first time in 4 years in his "victory lap" season, I might add -- and then coached 8 more seasons at New Mexico State.
IIRC Gene Keady at Purdue also was given a take-it-or-leave-it offer of a one-year farewell tour with Matt Painter as coach-in-waiting. Same for Bobby Bowden I believe.
It's clearly not at all SOP for a coach to get all the way to the end of the last year of a contract. It kills recruiting. It's AD malpractice unless it literally can't be avoided. Two situations that would seem to fall under that umbrella would be (1) no $$ to pay the buyout earlier, and (2) coach wants more than the AD is willing to offer.
(03-19-2018 01:18 PM)temchugh Wrote: [ -> ]2. Publicly announcing that you plan to fire your legendary coach at the end of this season no matter how well the team does might impress a couple of clueless fans who think that they deserve to "know the truth", but it would not impress any current players, recruits, or most fans.
And the lame duck aspect has no bearing? If so, why are we likely the only program in the country going down this route?
Graham has publicly said he wants a multi year extension. JK clearly doesn't agree. Nothing that happens this season will reach a happy middle ground. This feels like ostrich behavior versus a real strategy.
(03-19-2018 01:36 PM)illiniowl Wrote: [ -> ] (03-19-2018 12:41 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ]Season ends, coach is let go, new coach is hired. SOP for every school everywhere. Since when has any AD anywhere stated that the upcoming season will be the last for a coach that doesn't want to leave?
A coach might announce that he will be retiring at the end of the current season, but the AD doesn't do that for him.
I have no doubt that JK is already doing his homework, just as he was doing before the end of Bailiff's last season.
To the bolded, Illinois did it with Lou Henson in basketball. Henson wanted an extension to finish his career at Illinois on his own terms. The AD said no, you can have a one-year victory lap after which you're done. Henson accepted that arrangement -- Illinois missed the tournament for the first time in 4 years in his "victory lap" season, I might add -- and then coached 8 more seasons at New Mexico State.
IIRC Gene Keady at Purdue also was given a take-it-or-leave-it offer of a one-year farewell tour with Matt Painter as coach-in-waiting. Same for Bobby Bowden I believe.
It's clearly not at all SOP for a coach to get all the way to the end of the last year of a contract. It kills recruiting. It's AD malpractice unless it literally can't be avoided. Two situations that would seem to fall under that umbrella would be (1) no $$ to pay the buyout earlier, and (2) coach wants more than the AD is willing to offer.
In all of your examples, the coach agreed to the "victory lap". What do you do if the coach does not agree to that? Do don't believe for a second that giving 80-year old Graham a multi-year extension would have allowed him to recruit any better than he has. I also do not believe that many recruits are fooled into committing to a school with a "hot seat" coach just because he has a multi-year contract. They know that a coach can be fired at any time.
The situation at Rice is very similar to the situation at UT during the 2016 season. The program was clearly in decline. Augie also did not want a "victory tour", he wanted to keep coaching. UT did not make an announcement until the end of the season.