(12-09-2017 07:27 AM)owl at the moon Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2017 12:07 AM)MemOwl Wrote: [ -> ]It's not impossible to believe that Coach B will leave after 1 year. if he delivers 8-5 up from 1-11, the offers will come in.
We need to be prepared for it and not react like last time and hire a guy whom we knew would be so happy to be here that he'd never leave.
Let's recap Arkansas St for comparison. Rice is a better job, probably, but here is what it was
2010. 4-8 with Steve Roberts. they fire him after 9 years, 45-63, 1 conference title and 1 bowl game
2011. promote OC Hugh Freeze. 10-3. undefeated in conference. goes to Ole Miss
2012. hire Gus Mahlzan out of Auburn OC. goes 9-3 with conference championship. goes to Auburn
2013. hire Bryan Harsin from Texas OC. goes 8-5 with conference co-championship. gets hired by Boise
2014. hired Blake Anderson from UNC OC. has stayed 4 years and gone 31-19. worst conference finish is 4th place. has won conference twice in 4 years.
Meh. Plateaued.
Avg annual wins per coach:
10,9,8,7.75
That's a much higher plateau than where we are now.
(12-09-2017 09:39 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote: [ -> ]JK said there were several other coaches who said they would take the job if offered so I assume that is the start of a list of candidates if Mike is hired away. But really isn’t this whole topic a little silly? Can’t we enjoy the fact that DB’s replacement is better than anyone thought we could get?
In all fairness, I think we have to attribute that at least in part to improvements that were made on Bailiff’s watch, like the EZF and the bowl games and conference championship and 10-win seasons. And I would also attribute it in part to JK’s taking the bull by the horns instead of waiting for some committee to be formed.
It is amazing how pessimistic this place gets so quickly.
For the first time in years, friends and family have approached me and stated how excited that they are about Rice football.
Let's stay positive. At least until the first game.
(12-09-2017 09:31 AM)Ricefootballnet Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2017 08:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2017 08:00 PM)InterestedX Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2017 06:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ]I predict Rice football practices will look very different next year.
Be honest -- how many Rice football practices have you been to in the past 10 years?
A bunch while I still worked in Houston. Not many since.
But I've made it pretty clear that my comments about practices were based upon observations of others passed along to me, and have accompanied such comments with a request for anyone who did attend regularly and had a different take to speak up. You've noticed there have been no takers on that.
And you can tell how a team practices by watching how it plays. We play like a team that doesn't practice hard.
My old high school coach was full of aphorisms, and one of his favorite was, “you practice how you play; you play the way you practice.” A bit redundant, but oh so true. And don’t we know it...
A word of caution about going all in on physical practices: Junction Boys.
I like the approach of Rice being a physical team, but given our injury history and historical lack of depth, I hope that the new S&C (not really new as Coach K employed a similar philosophy) approach allows us to practice with increased “physicality”.
One phrase I have heard over and over during the Bailiff tenure was “take care of each other.” That was in reference to being responsible in tackling and hitting.
And while we are at, perhaps it is time to install grass at HRS?
(12-09-2017 10:17 AM)seniorowl Wrote: [ -> ]It is amazing how pessimistic this place gets so quickly.
For the first time in years, friends and family have approached me and stated how excited that they are about Rice football.
Let's stay positive. At least until the first game.
I am pleased with this hire and optimistic that he will do well for us. I have set no particular goals that he has to reach to retain my support. But after doing this numerous times since 1966, I have become a bit more cautious about investing anybody with the mantle of savior until it is earned.
(12-09-2017 10:20 AM)Pan95 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2017 09:31 AM)Ricefootballnet Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2017 08:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2017 08:00 PM)InterestedX Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2017 06:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ]I predict Rice football practices will look very different next year.
Be honest -- how many Rice football practices have you been to in the past 10 years?
A bunch while I still worked in Houston. Not many since.
But I've made it pretty clear that my comments about practices were based upon observations of others passed along to me, and have accompanied such comments with a request for anyone who did attend regularly and had a different take to speak up. You've noticed there have been no takers on that.
And you can tell how a team practices by watching how it plays. We play like a team that doesn't practice hard.
My old high school coach was full of aphorisms, and one of his favorite was, “you practice how you play; you play the way you practice.” A bit redundant, but oh so true. And don’t we know it...
A word of caution about going all in on physical practices: Junction Boys.
I like the approach of Rice being a physical team, but given our injury history and historical lack of depth, I hope that the new S&C (not really new as Coach K employed a similar philosophy) approach allows us to practice with increased “physicality”.
One phrase I have heard over and over during the Bailiff tenure was “take care of each other.” That was in reference to being responsible in tackling and hitting.
And while we are at, perhaps it is time to install grass at HRS?
Physical practices don’t mean that people get hurt. Most injuries, particularly practice injuries, happen when bodies get piled up. By working in smaller groups you can minimize that damage. I have noticed in videos of Bloomgren at practice that he did a lot of work in small groups. Small groups with lots of reps and nobody standing around get a lot of work done in a hurry without the injury risk. 11 on 12 with 70 watching is the other end of the scale.
The other thing that happens is that if you have physical practices, your bodies get accustomed to it and I believe you are less likely to get injured in games.
I liked the way Bryant did it (surprise, surprise)—hard, physical practices in the spring (when people have time to recover before fall), then running your butts off to develop fitness in two-a-days, then taper off with mostly game planning and recognition stuff once you are into the season (the hay is pretty much in the barn at that point).
(12-09-2017 10:43 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2017 10:20 AM)Pan95 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2017 09:31 AM)Ricefootballnet Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2017 08:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2017 08:00 PM)InterestedX Wrote: [ -> ]Be honest -- how many Rice football practices have you been to in the past 10 years?
A bunch while I still worked in Houston. Not many since.
But I've made it pretty clear that my comments about practices were based upon observations of others passed along to me, and have accompanied such comments with a request for anyone who did attend regularly and had a different take to speak up. You've noticed there have been no takers on that.
And you can tell how a team practices by watching how it plays. We play like a team that doesn't practice hard.
My old high school coach was full of aphorisms, and one of his favorite was, “you practice how you play; you play the way you practice.” A bit redundant, but oh so true. And don’t we know it...
A word of caution about going all in on physical practices: Junction Boys.
I like the approach of Rice being a physical team, but given our injury history and historical lack of depth, I hope that the new S&C (not really new as Coach K employed a similar philosophy) approach allows us to practice with increased “physicality”.
One phrase I have heard over and over during the Bailiff tenure was “take care of each other.” That was in reference to being responsible in tackling and hitting.
And while we are at, perhaps it is time to install grass at HRS?
Physical practices don’t mean that people get hurt. Most injuries, particularly practice injuries, happen when bodies get piled up. By working in smaller groups you can minimize that damage. I have noticed in videos of Bloomgren at practice that he did a lot of work in small groups. Small groups with lots of reps and nobody standing around get a lot of work done in a hurry without the injury risk. 11 on 12 with 70 watching is the other end of the scale.
The other thing that happens is that if you have physical practices, your bodies get accustomed to it and I believe you are less likely to get injured in games.
I liked the way Bryant did it (surprise, surprise)—hard, physical practices in the spring (when people have time to recover before fall), then running your butts off to develop fitness in two-a-days, then taper off with mostly game planning and recognition stuff once you are into the season (the hay is pretty much in the bath at that point).
Why would you put the hay in the bath?
Sorry. Couldn't resist.
(12-09-2017 11:54 AM)Tomball Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2017 10:43 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2017 10:20 AM)Pan95 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2017 09:31 AM)Ricefootballnet Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2017 08:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ]A bunch while I still worked in Houston. Not many since.
But I've made it pretty clear that my comments about practices were based upon observations of others passed along to me, and have accompanied such comments with a request for anyone who did attend regularly and had a different take to speak up. You've noticed there have been no takers on that.
And you can tell how a team practices by watching how it plays. We play like a team that doesn't practice hard.
My old high school coach was full of aphorisms, and one of his favorite was, “you practice how you play; you play the way you practice.” A bit redundant, but oh so true. And don’t we know it...
A word of caution about going all in on physical practices: Junction Boys.
I like the approach of Rice being a physical team, but given our injury history and historical lack of depth, I hope that the new S&C (not really new as Coach K employed a similar philosophy) approach allows us to practice with increased “physicality”.
One phrase I have heard over and over during the Bailiff tenure was “take care of each other.” That was in reference to being responsible in tackling and hitting.
And while we are at, perhaps it is time to install grass at HRS?
Physical practices don’t mean that people get hurt. Most injuries, particularly practice injuries, happen when bodies get piled up. By working in smaller groups you can minimize that damage. I have noticed in videos of Bloomgren at practice that he did a lot of work in small groups. Small groups with lots of reps and nobody standing around get a lot of work done in a hurry without the injury risk. 11 on 12 with 70 watching is the other end of the scale.
The other thing that happens is that if you have physical practices, your bodies get accustomed to it and I believe you are less likely to get injured in games.
I liked the way Bryant did it (surprise, surprise)—hard, physical practices in the spring (when people have time to recover before fall), then running your butts off to develop fitness in two-a-days, then taper off with mostly game planning and recognition stuff once you are into the season (the hay is pretty much in the bath at that point).
Why would you put the hay in the bath?
Sorry. Couldn't resist.
So the players could have lunch while they cleaned up? Saves time so they can make it to their Biochem class....
(12-09-2017 12:06 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2017 11:54 AM)Tomball Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2017 10:43 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2017 10:20 AM)Pan95 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2017 09:31 AM)Ricefootballnet Wrote: [ -> ]My old high school coach was full of aphorisms, and one of his favorite was, “you practice how you play; you play the way you practice.” A bit redundant, but oh so true. And don’t we know it...
A word of caution about going all in on physical practices: Junction Boys.
I like the approach of Rice being a physical team, but given our injury history and historical lack of depth, I hope that the new S&C (not really new as Coach K employed a similar philosophy) approach allows us to practice with increased “physicality”.
One phrase I have heard over and over during the Bailiff tenure was “take care of each other.” That was in reference to being responsible in tackling and hitting.
And while we are at, perhaps it is time to install grass at HRS?
Physical practices don’t mean that people get hurt. Most injuries, particularly practice injuries, happen when bodies get piled up. By working in smaller groups you can minimize that damage. I have noticed in videos of Bloomgren at practice that he did a lot of work in small groups. Small groups with lots of reps and nobody standing around get a lot of work done in a hurry without the injury risk. 11 on 12 with 70 watching is the other end of the scale.
The other thing that happens is that if you have physical practices, your bodies get accustomed to it and I believe you are less likely to get injured in games.
I liked the way Bryant did it (surprise, surprise)—hard, physical practices in the spring (when people have time to recover before fall), then running your butts off to develop fitness in two-a-days, then taper off with mostly game planning and recognition stuff once you are into the season (the hay is pretty much in the bath at that point).
Why would you put the hay in the bath?
Sorry. Couldn't resist.
Damn autocorrect. Fixed.
Careful. Don’t throw out the hay with the bath water!
(12-09-2017 10:03 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ]In all fairness, I think we have to attribute that at least in part to improvements that were made on Bailiff’s watch, like the EZF and the bowl games and conference championship and 10-win seasons. And I would also attribute it in part to JK’s taking the bull by the horns instead of waiting for some committee to be formed.
Can you parse this analysis a bit more?
The EZF is a hard asset and very clearly an improvement in Rice's attractiveness
JK appears to be switched on and has deep personal ties to Stanford. He is almost by definition a shaping force in all hiring decisions, and can influence the candidate pool with his connections and influencing skills
I'm curious if you believe that Bailiff's tenure--in itself--improved the quality of our candidate pool.
He started with a loss to Nicholls, ended with 1-11. He did mix in a conference title but in a somewhat watered down CUSA. I believe (but not certain) that his good teams were no better computer wise than some good Ken Hatfield WAC teams. I think he had fewer than 5 wins against bowl eligible P5 teams. Our TV exposure seems to be eroding.
in today's FBS, absent a conference title, a bowl bid is only slightly better than a passing grade or a participation ribbon.
I guess I'm inclined to be pretty harsh on his body of work. There were high highs in Texas Bowl and CUSA title. but a big trough between those two highs, and closed with a long and precipitous slide that started with the Liberty Bowl.
I'm not privy to Pattersen's thoughts, but I don't think the EZF gets built without recent successes, especially since the university had to chip in a couple of million.
There's a subjective element to success: the increased prestige and visibility of bowl visits and conference titles, even if statistically the bar for those achievements is low. For the university the subjective element is very important, as it goes to the fulfillment of the very purpose of having an athletic program.
I'll also add that Graham is as deserving of credit as Bailiff, to the extent that either are.
Rice compounded Bailiff's shortcomings by making its usual mistake of keeping him on well past his peak.
(12-09-2017 12:08 PM)MemOwl Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2017 10:03 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ]In all fairness, I think we have to attribute that at least in part to improvements that were made on Bailiff’s watch, like the EZF and the bowl games and conference championship and 10-win seasons. And I would also attribute it in part to JK’s taking the bull by the horns instead of waiting for some committee to be formed.
Can you parse this analysis a bit more?
The EZF is a hard asset and very clearly an improvement in Rice's attractiveness
JK appears to be switched on and has deep personal ties to Stanford. He is almost by definition a shaping force in all hiring decisions, and can influence the candidate pool with his connections and influencing skills
I'm curious if you believe that Bailiff's tenure--in itself--improved the quality of our candidate pool.
He started with a loss to Nicholls, ended with 1-11. He did mix in a conference title but in a somewhat watered down CUSA. I believe (but not certain) that his good teams were no better computer wise than some good Ken Hatfield WAC teams. I think he had fewer than 5 wins against bowl eligible P5 teams. Our TV exposure seems to be eroding.
in today's FBS, absent a conference title, a bowl bid is only slightly better than a passing grade or a participation ribbon.
I guess I'm inclined to be pretty harsh on his body of work. There were high highs in Texas Bowl and CUSA title. but a big trough between those two highs, and closed with a long and precipitous slide that started with the Liberty Bowl.
(12-09-2017 12:18 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not privy to Pattersen's thoughts, but I don't think the EZF gets built without recent successes, especially since the university had to chip in a couple of million.
There's a subjective element to success: the increased prestige and visibility of bowl visits and conference titles, even if statistically the bar for those achievements is low. For the university the subjective element is very important, as it goes to the fulfillment of the very purpose of having an athletic program.
I'll also add that Graham is as deserving of credit as Bailiff, to the extent that either are.
Rice compounded Bailiff's shortcomings by making its usual mistake of keeping him on well past his peak.
I don't know that anyone else has been as consistently critical of David's coaching abilities as I have been. I would have fired him after 2009, 2010, or 2011, and I think we'd be better off today if we had. He proved at Rice, as at Texas State, that he could win 10 when the stars aligned properly, but his approach could not do it consistently. He did have some good moments though, and at the point we hired at least Todd, and probably Bailiff too, the perception on the street was that you could not win at Rice. Bailiff proved that you could do it occasionally, but not consistently. That was a huge step from where we had been. You have heard commentator after commentator opine that Bailiff was doing an amazing job to win a conference championship and go to four bowls, winning three.
But a coach looks at that differently. A coach looks at film of Rice, sees the things I have complained about, and thinks, "Wow, they could be a lot better if they just played focused, disciplined football." And he thinks he can come here and build that.
As for the EZF, I don't think there's a chance in hell that we build it without the successes of 2012-14, and I think that was definitely a factor in upgrading the perception of the position. I also think JK's contacts helped a bunch too.
But the most important factor may be that, if things I'm hearing through the grapevine are true, JK has used this whole event to take firmer control of the athletic department than any of his predecessors, except possibly Chris, have ever had. The best news out of the whole deal to me is no committee.
(12-09-2017 10:17 AM)seniorowl Wrote: [ -> ]Let's stay positive. At least until the first game.
If we are negative after the first game (PVA&M), we will be in some deep doodoo.
I will be much more interested in how we perform in the second game (UH) and how positive we are after that one.
With the hope of getting this thread back on topic...
This is pure speculation on my part, but based on their paths crossing with one of our new coordinators and their seeming attainability here are a few possible candidates for the staff:
Offense:
Kevin McGiven - mentioned previously, he worked with Coach Mack at Memphis; was Oregon State’s Offensive Coordinator this past season (appears to be currently out of work)
Tommy Perry - worked with Coach Mack at South Alabama; currently the Senior Special Teams Analyst for Nevada
Defense:
Stephen Thomas - worked with Coach Smith at the Philadelphia Eagles in 2015; currently Special Teams Coordinator/Inside Linebackers Coach for Princeton
Mike Smith - worked with Coach Smith at the New York Jets (may have even crossed paths with Bloomgren); currently the Assistant Defensive Line Coach for the Kansas City Chiefs
Jim O'Neil - worked with Coach Bloomgren and Coach Smith at the New York Jets; was the San Francisco 49ers DC in 2016 (appears to be currently out of work)
Rick Minter - worked with Coach Smith at the Philadelphia Eagles in 2015; currently Defensive Coordinator/Defensive Line Coach for Florida Tech
I’m sure Bloomgren will bring a couple of QCs and/or GAs with him from Stanford and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him hire a Texas High School coach or two.
Has anyone seen any other/new chatter about possible staff additions?
Bobby Brown who's a recruiting assistant at Air Force currently might be coming (in an off-the-field role presumably). He recently started following a bunch of Rice stuff on Twitter.
(12-09-2017 01:52 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote: [ -> ]Bobby Brown who's a recruiting assistant at Air Force currently might be coming (in an off-the-field role presumably). He recently started following a bunch of Rice stuff on Twitter.
Same with Callie Seidman Dale, Associate Director of Football Operations at Stanford.
