CSNbbs

(10-30-2020 10:11 AM)The Cats Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think WCU would be interested in the ASun as a home, but I think there might be some support for a new conference made up of public schools. [/align]

A combination of SoCon, Big South and OVC schools, such as WCU, UTC, ETSU, JSU, EKU, Austin Peay, KSU, NC A&T and UNA.

9 schools, 8 conference games per season, allowing for 3 OOC games each year.

Looks good, I would go for 10 schools though. Might as well put Tennessee Tech in there as well.

So funny. It’s obvious none of us are content in the ASUN. We may be comfortable, but not content. The post above wouldn’t even be the ASUN, but a totally new conference. I’m not downing it by the way. Everyone can dream. It’s great. I’ve done the same for Liberty.

But back to the very first original question.... Yes, the ASUN should look to expand.

I hope we expand by 3-7 teams. Ted, ya reading this? I know you want to expand also. Let’s get some announcements coming. 3-7 teams!

(10-31-2020 09:09 AM)army56mike Wrote: [ -> ]So funny. It’s obvious none of us are content in the ASUN. We may be comfortable, but not content. The post above wouldn’t even be the ASUN, but a totally new conference. I’m not downing it by the way. Everyone can dream. It’s great. I’ve done the same for Liberty.

But back to the very first original question.... Yes, the ASUN should look to expand.

I hope we expand by 3-7 teams. Ted, ya reading this? I know you want to expand also. Let’s get some announcements coming. 3-7 teams!

I would stay in the ASUN, from a UNA prospective.

I think the ASUN fits well overall with UNA.

I was just throwing in on his idea.


If the ASUN expands past 10, you have to have schools on the basketball side that makes it worth splitting the money that many ways. So you would have to assure the current schools that we would have the quality to provide multiple bids into the NCAA tournament and the NIT (exposure is exposure).

But I'm not opposed to expanding to 16, but I think it needs to be either FCS schools or FBS schools (or FCS schools looking to move to FBS).

If its FBS schools, with enough of them, maybe the ASUN can petition the NCAA to have FBS as a conference and not a bunch of independents. UNA and KSU would automatically have a FBS home if they choose to go that route, (which I think both can). You would also have both UNF and FGCU that would probably be more inclined to start football on that level especially when you have schools like UCF, USF, FIU and FAU in state.

So you would need, Football schools with good enough basketball, off the top of my head, this is a rough list, please tell me who we need or dont need, I'm not well versed in who's good in basketball traditionally.


JSU, JMU, Chattanooga, ODU, Southern Miss, EKU, MTSU

So the ASUN as a FBS football league

Liberty*
JMU*
ODU*
Bellarmine
EKU*
Lipscomb
Chattanooga*
MTSU*
KSU*
UNA*
JSU*
Southern Miss*
UNF*
JU
Stetson
FGCU*

16 all sports, 12 football

(10-30-2020 08:23 PM)lion1983 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-30-2020 10:11 AM)The Cats Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think WCU would be interested in the ASun as a home, but I think there might be some support for a new conference made up of public schools. [/align]

A combination of SoCon, Big South and OVC schools, such as WCU, UTC, ETSU, JSU, EKU, Austin Peay, KSU, NC A&T and UNA.

9 schools, 8 conference games per season, allowing for 3 OOC games each year.

Looks good, I would go for 10 schools though. Might as well put Tennessee Tech in there as well.

Yes add Tennessee Tech, drop Austin Peay and add Tennessee State

The ASUN becomes an FBS
Florida International
Florida Atlantic
Georgia Southern
Old Dominion
UNC - Charlotte
Liberty
Marshall
James Madison ( moves up)
Florida Gulf Coast
Stetson
Jacksonville
North Florida

This would cut down on travel

Kennesaw State
North Alabama
To a complete new conference

Lipscomb to SoCon or OVC

Work something out where Bellarmine can join either the OVC or Horizon

Thought I’d throw in some of the targets we’ve thrown out.

2020 Initial KenPom Rankings
156. Chattanooga
162. Liberty
173. Lipscomb
200. W. Carolina
222. Stetson
232. Norfolk St.
239. UNC Wilmington
243. North Alabama
254. FGCU
256. Howard
264. Charleston So.
282. North Florida
291. Bellarmine
295. Jacksonville St.
297. NCCU
302. High Point
309. N.C. A&T
311. Jacksonville
337. Hampton
345. Kennesaw St.
355. South Carolina St.
357. LAST PLACE SCHOOL


UA-Huntsville
North Georgia
West Georgia
West Florida
Nova SE

(11-04-2020 03:13 PM)army56mike Wrote: [ -> ]Thought I’d throw in some of the targets we’ve thrown out.

2020 Initial KenPom Rankings
156. Chattanooga
162. Liberty
173. Lipscomb
200. W. Carolina
222. Stetson
232. Norfolk St.
239. UNC Wilmington
243. North Alabama
254. FGCU
256. Howard
264. Charleston So.
282. North Florida
291. Bellarmine
295. Jacksonville St.
297. NCCU
302. High Point
309. N.C. A&T
311. Jacksonville
337. Hampton
345. Kennesaw St.
355. South Carolina St.
357. LAST PLACE SCHOOL


UA-Huntsville
North Georgia
West Georgia
West Florida
Nova SE

Wow, Kennesaw State isn't last?! That's a bit of a pleasant surprise. Still, shame on KSU and Jacksonville for being below Bellarmine in their first year in Division I. No matter how great they were in DII (and they were one of the best), everyone should have the better players, coaches, and support in DI than DII. Based on their history, I would expect Bellarmine to get out of the basement relatively soon but their initial season is likely to be tough in the win-loss department.

I don't know if this is the norm or not but it is nice to see two teams in the top half of Division I instead of one. Now let's get a third and get everyone out of the 300 or lower section.

Been listening to several different podcasts lately, and as far as FCS schools are concerned, the "experts" seem to think in the next 2-3 years, the FCS landscape as far as conference realignment goes, will drastically change in the Southeastern portion of the country.

Whatever that means.

(11-05-2020 06:55 AM)GE and MTS Wrote: [ -> ]Still, shame on KSU and Jacksonville for being below Bellarmine in their first year in Division I. No matter how great they were in DII (and they were one of the best), everyone should have the better players, coaches, and support in DI than DII.

Uh, not everyone in D-I does. Bellarmine has been a de facto D-I for over a decade now. And I could think of a few other D-IIs as well (our old friends at Southern Indiana come to mind).

By way of but one specific example, I lived in Indianapolis for many years, and, during the last decade, BU was always "more D-I" than IUPUI in pretty much all key facets: as good or better talent (at least in the top half of the roster), a better head coach, more fan support, and better media coverage (to be fair, Indy is a crowded sports market).

If memory serves, in a typical season, BU, as a D-II, would outdrew half or so of the ASUN program in men's basketball attendance.

Chalk it up to being a good school academically, in a college hoops crazy market, the success on the court "snowballing," and having a coach who, in addition to being an amazing marketer for the program, snagged numerous low-to-mid D-I guys who just wanted to play for a winner, be closer to home, etc. Very successful exhibitions against D-Is didn't hurt either (the win at Xavier was great, BU lost on a last-second shot there the next year, and then the Musketeers stopped playing BU).

The Knights will no doubt have a learning curve and take their share of lumps this season, but it's not surprising at all to see the respect they're getting right out of the D-I "gate."

(11-05-2020 07:07 PM)BellarmineGrad Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-05-2020 06:55 AM)GE and MTS Wrote: [ -> ]Still, shame on KSU and Jacksonville for being below Bellarmine in their first year in Division I. No matter how great they were in DII (and they were one of the best), everyone should have the better players, coaches, and support in DI than DII.

Uh, not everyone in D-I does. Bellarmine has been a de facto D-I for over a decade now. And I could think of a few other D-IIs as well (our old friends at Southern Indiana come to mind).

By way of but one specific example, I lived in Indianapolis for many years, and, during the last decade, BU was always "more D-I" than IUPUI in pretty much all key facets: as good or better talent (at least in the top half of the roster), a better head coach, more fan support, and better media coverage (to be fair, Indy is a crowded sports market).

If memory serves, in a typical season, BU, as a D-II, would outdrew half or so of the ASUN program in men's basketball attendance.

Chalk it up to being a good school academically, in a college hoops crazy market, the success on the court "snowballing," and having a coach who, in addition to being an amazing marketer for the program, snagged numerous low-to-mid D-I guys who just wanted to play for a winner, be closer to home, etc. Very successful exhibitions against D-Is didn't hurt either (the win at Xavier was great, BU lost on a last-second shot there the next year, and then the Musketeers stopped playing BU).

The Knights will no doubt have a learning curve and take their share of lumps this season, but it's not surprising at all to see the respect they're getting right out of the D-I "gate."

We understand that, we know....

I dont think that was a jab at BU as much as it was at KSU and JU.

He, as well as myself and others on here, want everyone in the ASUN to be higher on the list, but (especially in KSUs case) some have not performed up to their potential.

JU has had decades to build a successful program. KSU has had some great recruiting classes but still at the bottom of the list.

UNA is low as well, I know, but they are building faster than most would have thought, and should get better and better. I think we have done slightly better than we should have.

Going forward into the next 10 years, I think the conference (if it stays together) is in good shape to climb the ladder collectively, but schools like KSU especially has to start pulling their weight. I dont expect the Florida schools to be dominant because they put a lot of resources into baseball, but they should still be strong.

UNA puts money into football, basketball and softball (hopefully baseball as well) so we will see were it goes when our transition is over.

Bellarmine should be fine, but you learn real fast that beating D1 schools while you are in D2 is one thing, grinding it out for a whole season is another. UNA used to beat D1 schools in basketball and football. Have won D2 national championships in basketball, softball, volleyball and football. But it's still a huge jump.

(11-06-2020 12:28 AM)lion1983 Wrote: [ -> ]...but you learn real fast that beating D1 schools while you are in D2 is one thing, grinding it out for a whole season is another.

Of course. But my point stands for BU men's hoops, at least for the guards and small(ish) forwards -- they've been "low D-I" in those spots for years, but will definitely need more size on inside, plus a bit more athleticism, to really compete well at this next level.

Your initial comment did mention support. The fan support is there at BU, they have some good benefactors as well as institutional support, and I think taking over Freedom Hall will make a big impression.

(11-05-2020 07:07 PM)BellarmineGrad Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-05-2020 06:55 AM)GE and MTS Wrote: [ -> ]Still, shame on KSU and Jacksonville for being below Bellarmine in their first year in Division I. No matter how great they were in DII (and they were one of the best), everyone should have the better players, coaches, and support in DI than DII.

Uh, not everyone in D-I does. Bellarmine has been a de facto D-I for over a decade now. And I could think of a few other D-IIs as well (our old friends at Southern Indiana come to mind).

By way of but one specific example, I lived in Indianapolis for many years, and, during the last decade, BU was always "more D-I" than IUPUI in pretty much all key facets: as good or better talent (at least in the top half of the roster), a better head coach, more fan support, and better media coverage (to be fair, Indy is a crowded sports market).

If memory serves, in a typical season, BU, as a D-II, would outdrew half or so of the ASUN program in men's basketball attendance.

Chalk it up to being a good school academically, in a college hoops crazy market, the success on the court "snowballing," and having a coach who, in addition to being an amazing marketer for the program, snagged numerous low-to-mid D-I guys who just wanted to play for a winner, be closer to home, etc. Very successful exhibitions against D-Is didn't hurt either (the win at Xavier was great, BU lost on a last-second shot there the next year, and then the Musketeers stopped playing BU).

The Knights will no doubt have a learning curve and take their share of lumps this season, but it's not surprising at all to see the respect they're getting right out of the D-I "gate."

I totally get that Bellarmine was great in Division II and you guys have a sterling program that makes schools at any level jealous. My comment was interpreted correctly by lion1983 that it was a dig at KSU and Jacksonville than an indictment towards Bellarmine. As great as BU is, and you guys are, how many other conferences could add a Division II school and have that new school be better than one, much less two, existing members? If our conference wants to take steps to get to the "next level", we can't have teams worse than a DII move-up or in the bottom 20% of all DI.

Asking for a friend, did KSU & JU already play Bellarmine?

(11-10-2020 03:35 PM)Courtside Wrote: [ -> ]Asking for a friend, did KSU & JU already play Bellarmine?

No idea, but sadly I could believe KSU might finish below Bellarmine. However, I am confused why your team is ranked below them.

(11-10-2020 04:03 PM)Keswick_Crusaders_Forever51 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-10-2020 03:35 PM)Courtside Wrote: [ -> ]Asking for a friend, did KSU & JU already play Bellarmine?

No idea, but sadly I could believe KSU might finish below Bellarmine. However, I am confused why your team is ranked below them.

Although I subscribe to KenPom, I do not begin to profess to fully understand the complexities of what Pomeroy does. I think I know, that at least for the preseason rankings he relies heavily on returning scoring/rebounding/minutes played production. KSU & JU have perhaps the least returning production in the ASUN. UNF, which has been a top contender over the last few years also lost a ton, thus a #282 starting point just ahead of Bellarmine.

I expect that KSU with a very highly touted recruiting class will be vastly improved. JU (which finished LY @ #240) will be competitive and will not be an easy out. They are however only about six deep so I doubt that they play into the top half of the ASUN. UNF will also be very tall & talented but very young overall.

(11-10-2020 03:35 PM)Courtside Wrote: [ -> ]Asking for a friend, did KSU & JU already play Bellarmine?

Cool story, bro.

Clearly teams that have been mentioned for expansion would mostly view the ASUN as a step up or an even trade.

(11-04-2020 03:13 PM)army56mike Wrote: [ -> ]2020 Initial KenPom Rankings
156. Chattanooga
162. Liberty
173. Lipscomb
200. W. Carolina
222. Stetson
232. Norfolk St.
239. UNC Wilmington
243. North Alabama
254. FGCU
256. Howard
264. Charleston So.
282. North Florida
291. Bellarmine
295. Jacksonville St.
297. NCCU
302. High Point
309. N.C. A&T
311. Jacksonville
337. Hampton
345. Kennesaw St.
355. South Carolina St.
357. LAST PLACE SCHOOL


UA-Huntsville
North Georgia
West Georgia
West Florida
Nova SE

I thought the A-Sun was rated too low as a group, but of course these ratings don't mean anything in reality. To stir the pot, I hope Bellarmine has learned from Kennesaw. Fans are pumped up in the same way the KSU group was. I could see it playing out in a similar way. Recruiting takes a major hit after the first D1 season or two, for a couple of reasons. First the obvious, the lack of eligibility for the tournament is a tough sell. Second, losing games and being a D1 bottom dweller is a very tough sell (much easier to sell being a top tier D2 with national title hopes). That's how you can end up being better with your D2 players than you are with fresh D1 recruits, at least in the beginning. For Kennesaw though, it's been a never ending decline. Kennesaw has literally never recovered, and never been better than they were in their first couple of D1 seasons. Hard to imagine these stats:

Kennesaw State conference win totals in first 2 seasons: 10 and 9
Kennesaw State conference win percentage in first 2 seasons: .500 and .500

Kennesaw's best conference win total in the next 13 seasons: 7
Kennesaw's best conference win percentage in those 13 seasons: .500 (twice)

Kennesaw State's best D1 team was their roster full of Division 2 players in 2005. Kennesaw has now completed 15 seasons at the D1 level, and are coming off their worst season yet. It's brutal, but a really interesting subject. They have all the reasons on paper to be able to build a powerhouse (huge enrollment, plenty of money, very nice facility/arena, hotbed of talent in the state and region), but they just can't do it.

Ok my Kennesaw rant is over. I'm still an ASUN fan and I love following. Kennesaw has been a rival and I look forward to the day they break through. Good luck to Bellarmine, and I hope the staff has studied the 15 year route that Kennesaw traveled. What was my point in all of this? Well, maybe Bellarmine *should* be rated higher than a couple of ASUN teams. But lets check back in their 3rd season when they will really be tested in recruiting.

(11-11-2020 03:01 AM)MercerFan Wrote: [ -> ]I thought the A-Sun was rated too low as a group, but of course these ratings don't mean anything in reality. To stir the pot, I hope Bellarmine has learned from Kennesaw. Fans are pumped up in the same way the KSU group was. I could see it playing out in a similar way. Recruiting takes a major hit after the first D1 season or two, for a couple of reasons. First the obvious, the lack of eligibility for the tournament is a tough sell. Second, losing games and being a D1 bottom dweller is a very tough sell (much easier to sell being a top tier D2 with national title hopes). That's how you can end up being better with your D2 players than you are with fresh D1 recruits, at least in the beginning. For Kennesaw though, it's been a never ending decline. Kennesaw has literally never recovered, and never been better than they were in their first couple of D1 seasons. Hard to imagine these stats:

Kennesaw State conference win totals in first 2 seasons: 10 and 9
Kennesaw State conference win percentage in first 2 seasons: .500 and .500

Kennesaw's best conference win total in the next 13 seasons: 7
Kennesaw's best conference win percentage in those 13 seasons: .500 (twice)

Kennesaw State's best D1 team was their roster full of Division 2 players in 2005. Kennesaw has now completed 15 seasons at the D1 level, and are coming off their worst season yet. It's brutal, but a really interesting subject. They have all the reasons on paper to be able to build a powerhouse (huge enrollment, plenty of money, very nice facility/arena, hotbed of talent in the state and region), but they just can't do it.

Ok my Kennesaw rant is over. I'm still an ASUN fan and I love following. Kennesaw has been a rival and I look forward to the day they break through. Good luck to Bellarmine, and I hope the staff has studied the 15 year route that Kennesaw traveled. What was my point in all of this? Well, maybe Bellarmine *should* be rated higher than a couple of ASUN teams. But lets check back in their 3rd season when they will really be tested in recruiting.

^^^^
This is the reason I dont believe KSU will ever go to FBS...

Believe it or not, all FBS conferences want basketball to help create conference income. They dont want a school that's not going to help them get multiple schools in the tournament.

And they ain't Liberty, they have no basis to file suit to move.

(11-11-2020 09:51 AM)lion1983 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-11-2020 03:01 AM)MercerFan Wrote: [ -> ]I thought the A-Sun was rated too low as a group, but of course these ratings don't mean anything in reality. To stir the pot, I hope Bellarmine has learned from Kennesaw. Fans are pumped up in the same way the KSU group was. I could see it playing out in a similar way. Recruiting takes a major hit after the first D1 season or two, for a couple of reasons. First the obvious, the lack of eligibility for the tournament is a tough sell. Second, losing games and being a D1 bottom dweller is a very tough sell (much easier to sell being a top tier D2 with national title hopes). That's how you can end up being better with your D2 players than you are with fresh D1 recruits, at least in the beginning. For Kennesaw though, it's been a never ending decline. Kennesaw has literally never recovered, and never been better than they were in their first couple of D1 seasons. Hard to imagine these stats:

Kennesaw State conference win totals in first 2 seasons: 10 and 9
Kennesaw State conference win percentage in first 2 seasons: .500 and .500

Kennesaw's best conference win total in the next 13 seasons: 7
Kennesaw's best conference win percentage in those 13 seasons: .500 (twice)

Kennesaw State's best D1 team was their roster full of Division 2 players in 2005. Kennesaw has now completed 15 seasons at the D1 level, and are coming off their worst season yet. It's brutal, but a really interesting subject. They have all the reasons on paper to be able to build a powerhouse (huge enrollment, plenty of money, very nice facility/arena, hotbed of talent in the state and region), but they just can't do it.

Ok my Kennesaw rant is over. I'm still an ASUN fan and I love following. Kennesaw has been a rival and I look forward to the day they break through. Good luck to Bellarmine, and I hope the staff has studied the 15 year route that Kennesaw traveled. What was my point in all of this? Well, maybe Bellarmine *should* be rated higher than a couple of ASUN teams. But lets check back in their 3rd season when they will really be tested in recruiting.

^^^^
This is the reason I dont believe KSU will ever go to FBS...

Believe it or not, all FBS conferences want basketball to help create conference income. They dont want a school that's not going to help them get multiple schools in the tournament.

And they ain't Liberty, they have no basis to file suit to move.

For the record, Liberty never filed a lawsuit to go FBS. They argued (successfully) that the conference invite rule was unintentionally punishing towards private schools.