CSNbbs

Verrry interesting.

MyView: Taking the “Alabama” out of UA

As a college administrator. More students from the state of Alabama now attend UAT than when the process started. Using percentages of individual HS is hog wash. John is really stretching on this one. The UAT undergraduate academic standards has gone through the roof. Also states UAT is awash in debts but uses zero facts to support him. UATs bond rating has actually improved during the process.

UAB's finances was expanded/built on research dollars but the overall research dollars are in decline and cannot be expected to support future growth. Almost everyone on this board wishes the student body to expand for the purpose of supporting sports if nothing else. Whit who is soon to be gone but wishes to move UAB out of the bottom quartile of undergraduate schoolsby attracting numbers and academics by using STEM students from out of state.

I am proud of the SOM and I believe that the majority of students are from out of state. If we are too expand UAB we will also now have to use debt instead of research dollars. This is really a stupid criticism I would not want to limit UAB to in state students.

First, the debt at UAT has been well documented in other news articles and reports. I believe to the tune of 1 billion. The fact that most students are coming from out of state is concerning for students in Alabama. I actually think the high school percentages are an interesting trend. The schools where their have been a big decline are some of the top schools in the state. It was an interesting observation that schools like Mountain Brook, McGill-Toolen, and to a lesser degree Chelsea have increased. Now one could make the argument that students in the other schools are choosing to go elsewhere based on their career goals, but for in state to decrease to less than 50% is ridiculous. By the way, in 2013 the School of Medicine had 157 Alabamians enroll compared to 28 non-residents. That is 84%.

Kind of predictable when you have a state institution divorced of actual accountability to the people of the state. That the state's universities (all of them) should serve the people of the state seems self-evident, but with a self-perpetuating Board, what incentive beyond the nuclear option (cut off state funds) does anyone have to force them back to that basic mission when they stray? They're seeking cash where it is to be found, with no regard for non-monetary goals, because there's no one to enforce said goals.

(09-18-2015 04:13 PM)uabbean Wrote: [ -> ]As a college administrator. More students from the state of Alabama now attend UAT than when the process started. Using percentages of individual HS is hog wash. John is really stretching on this one. The UAT undergraduate academic standards has gone through the roof. Also states UAT is awash in debts but uses zero facts to support him. UATs bond rating has actually improved during the process.

UAB's finances was expanded/built on research dollars but the overall research dollars are in decline and cannot be expected to support future growth. Almost everyone on this board wishes the student body to expand for the purpose of supporting sports if nothing else. Whit who is soon to be gone but wishes to move UAB out of the bottom quartile of undergraduate schoolsby attracting numbers and academics by using STEM students from out of state.

I am proud of the SOM and I believe that the majority of students are from out of state. If we are too expand UAB we will also now have to use debt instead of research dollars. This is really a stupid criticism I would not want to limit UAB to in state students.

I'm sure multiple points could be picked out...but to me, this entire post loses all credibility when you state that you believe the majority of SOM students are from out of state

The most they break it down is combined Medicine, Dental, and Optometry, but in 2014 13.1% of students in those three schools combined were from out of state https://www.uab.edu/institutionaleffecti...igures.pdf

I can tell you from going through the process that the SOM take UAB kids preferentially then best in state then best out of state.

(09-19-2015 11:14 AM)biglizard Wrote: [ -> ]I can tell you from going through the process that the SOM take UAB kids preferentially then best in state then best out of state.

I don't completely agree with that

(09-19-2015 12:52 PM)LairDweller Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-19-2015 11:14 AM)biglizard Wrote: [ -> ]I can tell you from going through the process that the SOM take UAB kids preferentially then best in state then best out of state.

I don't completely agree with that

That what was told to me by faculty

The long range effects of decreased per pupil funding in Alabama since 2008 is being argued by many in state education circles as well as those in its many parts. The fact remains that the 2015-2016 education funding from the SETF - even with all the talk of there being a surplus - is still substantially less than it was in 2008. No state has cut its per pupil funding for public education more than Alabama. We have held that National Championship since 2012 and after the recent 2nd special session cuts, is not threatened with losing that crown.

The detrimental effects of this reduction will be felt most by those "Bottom 100" districts than by the wealthier top 35 or so because the latter have greater local funding. UAB football has been a "case study" in the reality that "if you can't raise the money, you can't have the program."

The "football effect" of state support may be indicated by the fact that very few Alabama public school players are listed as "starters" at any D1 FBS state school. In the last two Feb NSD classes, no state FBS school signed more than 5 Alabama public high school football players. (At UAB, Clark signed 4) The total number from instate is pumped up by walk-ons and bench riders needed for practice team numbers.

(09-19-2015 03:43 PM)biglizard Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-19-2015 12:52 PM)LairDweller Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-19-2015 11:14 AM)biglizard Wrote: [ -> ]I can tell you from going through the process that the SOM take UAB kids preferentially then best in state then best out of state.

I don't completely agree with that

That what was told to me by faculty

So, you know it because you went through the process, or because your faculty told you?

(09-19-2015 04:59 PM)LairDweller Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-19-2015 03:43 PM)biglizard Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-19-2015 12:52 PM)LairDweller Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-19-2015 11:14 AM)biglizard Wrote: [ -> ]I can tell you from going through the process that the SOM take UAB kids preferentially then best in state then best out of state.

I don't completely agree with that

That what was told to me by faculty

So, you know it because you went through the process, or because your faculty told you?

Both

(09-19-2015 05:01 PM)biglizard Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-19-2015 04:59 PM)LairDweller Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-19-2015 03:43 PM)biglizard Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-19-2015 12:52 PM)LairDweller Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-19-2015 11:14 AM)biglizard Wrote: [ -> ]I can tell you from going through the process that the SOM take UAB kids preferentially then best in state then best out of state.

I don't completely agree with that

That what was told to me by faculty

So, you know it because you went through the process, or because your faculty told you?

Both

I see

By the end of September, we should know how many students from which state's four year schools have been enrolled as freshmen by the UAB SOM this year. Whom can we ask for those numbers?

(09-19-2015 05:48 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote: [ -> ]By the end of September, we should know how many students from which state's four year schools have been enrolled as freshmen by the UAB SOM this year. Whom can we ask for those numbers?

An in-state student doesn't necessarily have to have earned their undergraduate degree in Alabama.

(09-19-2015 06:09 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-19-2015 05:48 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote: [ -> ]By the end of September, we should know how many students from which state's four year schools have been enrolled as freshmen by the UAB SOM this year. Whom can we ask for those numbers?

An in-state student doesn't necessarily have to have earned their undergraduate degree in Alabama.

Likewise, an instate college graduate didn't necessarily come from an instate high school. With both of our two largest enrollment universities more and more dependent upon students (regular and athletic scholarship students) graduating from better funded high schools in other states, it is likely our post-grad professional schools will have to deal with those problems as well.

im not sure if its changed, but 10 years ago, gaining in state status at UAB was FAR easier than at many institutions

(09-18-2015 04:13 PM)uabbean Wrote: [ -> ]As a college administrator. More students from the state of Alabama now attend UAT than when the process started. Using percentages of individual HS is hog wash. John is really stretching on this one. The UAT undergraduate academic standards has gone through the roof. Also states UAT is awash in debts but uses zero facts to support him. UATs bond rating has actually improved during the process.

UAB's finances was expanded/built on research dollars but the overall research dollars are in decline and cannot be expected to support future growth. Almost everyone on this board wishes the student body to expand for the purpose of supporting sports if nothing else. Whit who is soon to be gone but wishes to move UAB out of the bottom quartile of undergraduate schools by attracting numbers and academics by using STEM students from out of state.

I am proud of the SOM and I believe that the majority of students are from out of state. If we are too expand UAB we will also now have to use debt instead of research dollars.

'
First, it should be pointed out that UAT may say that they are catering to out of state students because they want the best and brightest, but the real reason are involved in a massive effort to recruit out of state is that they are dependent on the higher out of state tuition to pay for the tremendous debt they incurred to finance their massive expansion. They are not increasing academic excellence of their university with these out of state students. Instead they are primarily recruiting students who could not get into their in state universities in states like Texas. Instead of hiring excellent professors to teach their greater number of students, they are using graduate assistants to teach an ever greater percentage of their undergraduate classes. They are not seeking excellence; instead they are like an over extended family trying to make ends meet.

You also seem to be long on rhetoric and short on facts. Your statement that you believe that the majority of SOM students are from out of state has already proved to be erroneous by mixduptransistor who sited a university publication. We also know that you are apparently unaware how how deeply UAT is in debt.

I also think that your claim that "More students from the state of Alabama now attend UAT than when the process started." is also false based on the individual county statistics sited by John, but maybe Knox is cherry picked those numbers, So why don't you come back with real statistics which proves that point. If you can't do so I say we call BS on your entire post.

On a more important point, while state support has been cut recently, you need to remember that the entire UA system was built with Alabama tax dollars. When I got my MBA from you UAB in 1984, my tuition in no way paid for my education, much less the buildings I took classes in. While my entrance test scores would have probably gained me entrance to most MBA programs across the country, I could not afforded to quit my job and and pay to go anywhere else but UAB.

While we should strive excellence in all that we do, but state universities should always give priority to educating state residents. That is why they are built and why they continue to receive state taxpayer subsidies. There is, and should, be no argument on that score.

(09-20-2015 02:08 PM)CajunBlazer Wrote: [ -> ]I also think that your claim that "More students from the state of Alabama now attend UAT than when the process started." is also false based on the individual county statistics sited by John, but maybe Knox is cherry picked those numbers, So why don't you come back with real statistics which proves that point. If you can't do so I say we call BS on your entire post.

It is possible that percentages for "market share" of Alabama counties to have gone down but overall numbers to go up. The raw numbers went up so dramatically that a lower percentage of the new attendance numbers is higher than a higher percentage of the old attendance numbers.

(09-19-2015 11:14 AM)biglizard Wrote: [ -> ]I can tell you from going through the process that the SOM take UAB kids preferentially then best in state then best out of state.

SOM doesn't prioritize UAB applicants. SOM prioritizes in-state applicants, and UAB has more quality applicants.

UAB has a reputation among Alabama high school students as the place to go if you want to go to medical school. It also has a lot of resources for premed- decent premed advising and plenty of opportunities to get involved in research and volunteer with underserved children. These are the factors that lead to UAB being the largest feeder for UASOM in recent years. UAB doesn't beat out Alabama+ Auburn though last time I checked.

The only priority given is the EMSAP program, which has combined admissions to undergrad and medical school at the same time.