Yeah, there's not a guy on this roster outside of Cumberland who has unequivocally earned a starting spot. The current roster is not an excuse for mediocre recruiting.
(07-30-2018 03:52 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, there's not a guy on this roster outside of Cumberland who has unequivocally earned a starting spot. The current roster is not an excuse for mediocre recruiting.
In a vacuum, sure. The difference is kids study the roster of the schools recruiting them, and see first hand when they watch practice on a visit that there are two veterans at their spot already in the system. Some are confident enough in their ability that they don’t care. Many others are looking for the path of least resistance to playing time. You can sell them on playing over the veterans until you are blue in the face, but they just saw first hand they are walking in to a crowded situation...
(07-30-2018 04:19 PM)GameTime_21 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018 03:52 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, there's not a guy on this roster outside of Cumberland who has unequivocally earned a starting spot. The current roster is not an excuse for mediocre recruiting.
In a vacuum, sure. The difference is kids study the roster of the schools recruiting them, and see first hand when they watch practice on a visit that there are two veterans at their spot already in the system. Some are confident enough in their ability that they don’t care. Many others are looking for the path of least resistance to playing time. You can sell them on playing over the veterans until you are blue in the face, but they just saw first hand they are walking in to a crowded situation...
Nevertheless, somehow it's done at other schools.
At this point we have a statistically significant data set that shows us that our staff just isn't going to recruit on a level that's on par with our supposed station in the CBB landscape.
Considering all the accolades many on here heap upon the current administration you'd think it'd resonate more, but nah. It doesn't. We're held back by a conference that doesn't hold back our peers in the upper echelon of the AAC. At this point, it just is what it is.
Strap in boys, we're looking at more of the same for the foreseeable future. What a ride.....
mc
UC is like the ugly girl who buys a nice prom dress.
Mickey got a new arena but no one wants to dance with mini coach.
(07-30-2018 05:54 PM)marcuscan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018 04:19 PM)GameTime_21 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018 03:52 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, there's not a guy on this roster outside of Cumberland who has unequivocally earned a starting spot. The current roster is not an excuse for mediocre recruiting.
In a vacuum, sure. The difference is kids study the roster of the schools recruiting them, and see first hand when they watch practice on a visit that there are two veterans at their spot already in the system. Some are confident enough in their ability that they don’t care. Many others are looking for the path of least resistance to playing time. You can sell them on playing over the veterans until you are blue in the face, but they just saw first hand they are walking in to a crowded situation...
Nevertheless, somehow it's done at other schools.
At this point we have a statistically significant data set that shows us that our staff just isn't going to recruit on a level that's on par with our supposed station in the CBB landscape.
Considering all the accolades many on here heap upon the current administration you'd think it'd resonate more, but nah. It doesn't. We're held back by a conference that doesn't hold back our peers in the upper echelon of the AAC. At this point, it just is what it is.
Strap in boys, we're looking at more of the same for the foreseeable future. What a ride.....
mc
More of the same as in 30 win seasons and finishing at or very near the top of the conference? Sure do have it rough around here...
SMU: Caught cheating, coach forced out and on probation
UConn: Caught cheating, fires coach and sanctions looming
Memphis: Said screw it and went back to doing whatever necessary to keep local talent at home.
Houston: Hasn’t finished ahead of UC. Coach with long history of rule breaking
If you are expecting UC to cheat to get things done, I’d suggest you save yourself the trouble, and find a different team. Life will be easier for you...
(07-30-2018 06:55 PM)GameTime_21 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018 05:54 PM)marcuscan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018 04:19 PM)GameTime_21 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018 03:52 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, there's not a guy on this roster outside of Cumberland who has unequivocally earned a starting spot. The current roster is not an excuse for mediocre recruiting.
In a vacuum, sure. The difference is kids study the roster of the schools recruiting them, and see first hand when they watch practice on a visit that there are two veterans at their spot already in the system. Some are confident enough in their ability that they don’t care. Many others are looking for the path of least resistance to playing time. You can sell them on playing over the veterans until you are blue in the face, but they just saw first hand they are walking in to a crowded situation...
Nevertheless, somehow it's done at other schools.
At this point we have a statistically significant data set that shows us that our staff just isn't going to recruit on a level that's on par with our supposed station in the CBB landscape.
Considering all the accolades many on here heap upon the current administration you'd think it'd resonate more, but nah. It doesn't. We're held back by a conference that doesn't hold back our peers in the upper echelon of the AAC. At this point, it just is what it is.
Strap in boys, we're looking at more of the same for the foreseeable future. What a ride.....
mc
More of the same as in 30 win seasons and finishing at or very near the top of the conference? Sure do have it rough around here...
I love the consistency that UC has accomplished under Cronin, but I don't want feel like the Bearcats are just settling either. If we get bounced again first weekend and Mick isn't looking to upgrade on his coaching staff, I'll lose more interest in the basketball program. This past season may have bought more time with the current group but we still lacked a nice tournament run (perfectly laid out for the taking). IF next season is more of the same, we need either an ace recruiter or offensive guru from a smaller conference that would change things up a bit. I am looking at this upcoming season with cautious optimism and I like Cronin, but if he is too stubborn to change then he is selling this prestigious program short.
There are no more excuses after 5/3rd is completed. If you can't recruit because of the AAC, then time to find someone who can.
Yeah, I'll keep going back to my point that the 2017-2018 roster was Mick's best. Followed closely by his third best roster in 2016-2017 (I put the sweet sixteen team as second best). I guess we're recruiting poorly or something but I'm pretty sure that isn't the problem.
(07-30-2018 07:06 PM)GameTime_21 Wrote: [ -> ]SMU: Caught cheating, coach forced out and on probation
UConn: Caught cheating, fires coach and sanctions looming
Memphis: Said screw it and went back to doing whatever necessary to keep local talent at home.
Houston: Hasn’t finished ahead of UC. Coach with long history of rule breaking
If you are expecting UC to cheat to get things done, I’d suggest you save yourself the trouble, and find a different team. Life will be easier for you...
Huh? Who here said anything about UC cheating to get things done?
I guess the ONLY way to win in the post season is to cheat? The only way to recruit is to cheap? Are these the conclusions we're supposed to draw from this?
Also, what about Wichita State? Considering the most common excuse -
conference affiliation - they have a history of punching above their weight class in both NCAA tourney performance, and recruiting. They stepped in the the AAC and have pulled in higher rated kids than us. Let us not forgot that their 2018 class had Alex Lomax (0.9236) secured until Penny took over at Memphis and Marshall graciously let him out of his commitment so he could go play for Penny.
Speaking of Penny, and the Tigers -
"Memphis: Said screw it and went back to doing whatever necessary to keep local talent at home." I guess this is a con/ fault? How can we knock this approach then turnaround and uplift it when it comes to CLF? You ABSOLUTELY want to keep local talent at home. Hard to knock them for trying this with, Penny. We all are watching, but atm none of us can draw conclusions on the effectiveness of this approach since he's yet to coach a game. Time will tell, but as they say....
fortune favors the bold.
mc
(07-31-2018 10:11 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, I'll keep going back to my point that the 2017-2018 roster was Mick's best. Followed closely by his third best roster in 2016-2017 (I put the sweet sixteen team as second best). I guess we're recruiting poorly or something but I'm pretty sure that isn't the problem.
Cronin's best groups IMHO
16-18 - 61 Wins (2 second round exits NCAA tournament) 1-3 NBA type players
10-12 - 52 Wins (1 second round exit, 1 S16 exit) 1-2 NBA type players
That 2010-2011 team that lost to UConn competed with everybody in the BE...we dominated Georgetown towards the end and Cronin ended up 4-2 vs. Nova (after the JUCO rebuild yrs) before the conference folded.
We pulled Gates with two fouls (second foul call was bulls*it phantom call
) in an evenly matched game against O$U in the 1st half, then they go on a run to lead by 12 at halftime...
Quote:Wearing fluorescent orange shoelaces and piping on their jerseys, Cincinnati (26-11) fell behind by 12 at the half before going on a 19-4 run early in the second. The Bearcats led 52-48 with 11:34 to play when Matta called a timeout and ripped into his team.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketb...=320820194
Ibrahima Thomas and Cheikh Mobdj were good bigs to go along with Yancy Gates and Justin Jackson
(07-31-2018 10:11 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, I'll keep going back to my point that the 2017-2018 roster was Mick's best. Followed closely by his third best roster in 2016-2017 (I put the sweet sixteen team as second best). I guess we're recruiting poorly or something but I'm pretty sure that isn't the problem.
I think I agree... Mick's brand of basketball might struggle to get even a UK or Duke roster past the first weekend. We said for years that Mick just needs an injection of talent into the program to break through this glass ceiling, but look how far we got this past season with a loaded roster...
(07-31-2018 11:56 AM)TubaCat Wrote: [ -> ] (07-31-2018 10:11 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, I'll keep going back to my point that the 2017-2018 roster was Mick's best. Followed closely by his third best roster in 2016-2017 (I put the sweet sixteen team as second best). I guess we're recruiting poorly or something but I'm pretty sure that isn't the problem.
I think I agree... Mick's brand of basketball might struggle to get even a UK or Duke roster past the first weekend. We said for years that Mick just needs an injection of talent into the program to break through this glass ceiling, but look how far we got this past season with a loaded roster...
This past roster included a 1st rounder, and 2 iffy/ FA level NBAers. That's pretty dang good. I could be wrong, but I suspect it's just not going to get too much better than that...assuming we can even achieve that level of talent again in the first place.
This realization is one of the more depressing aspects of the collapse.
mc
(07-31-2018 12:04 PM)marcuscan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-31-2018 11:56 AM)TubaCat Wrote: [ -> ] (07-31-2018 10:11 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, I'll keep going back to my point that the 2017-2018 roster was Mick's best. Followed closely by his third best roster in 2016-2017 (I put the sweet sixteen team as second best). I guess we're recruiting poorly or something but I'm pretty sure that isn't the problem.
I think I agree... Mick's brand of basketball might struggle to get even a UK or Duke roster past the first weekend. We said for years that Mick just needs an injection of talent into the program to break through this glass ceiling, but look how far we got this past season with a loaded roster...
This past roster included a 1st rounder, and 2 iffy/ FA level NBAers. That's pretty dang good. I could be wrong, but I suspect it's just not going to get too much better than that...assuming we can even achieve that level of talent again in the first place.
This realization is one of the more depressing aspects of the collapse.
Add in there Jarron Cumberland who could be a 1st rounder/fringe lottery guy if he continues on his current progression curve...it was a pretty talented team, just weighed down by a lack of adjustments in the time they needed them most.
(07-31-2018 01:17 PM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-31-2018 12:04 PM)marcuscan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-31-2018 11:56 AM)TubaCat Wrote: [ -> ] (07-31-2018 10:11 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, I'll keep going back to my point that the 2017-2018 roster was Mick's best. Followed closely by his third best roster in 2016-2017 (I put the sweet sixteen team as second best). I guess we're recruiting poorly or something but I'm pretty sure that isn't the problem.
I think I agree... Mick's brand of basketball might struggle to get even a UK or Duke roster past the first weekend. We said for years that Mick just needs an injection of talent into the program to break through this glass ceiling, but look how far we got this past season with a loaded roster...
This past roster included a 1st rounder, and 2 iffy/ FA level NBAers. That's pretty dang good. I could be wrong, but I suspect it's just not going to get too much better than that...assuming we can even achieve that level of talent again in the first place.
This realization is one of the more depressing aspects of the collapse.
Add in there Jarron Cumberland who could be a 1st rounder/fringe lottery guy if he continues on his current progression curve...it was a pretty talented team, just weighed down by a lack of adjustments in the time they needed them most.
I agree talent was not an issue last year, the only reason it is this year is JE3 played so well he was able to leave early. I do have concerns going forward that we don't have the type of high end young players we had the last 5 years that led to consecutive 30 win seasons and a national championship contender last year. This staff does a great job getting the most out of the roster but if we don't get some all conference type players in this class I see us grinding out 7-10 seeds after this year.
(07-30-2018 03:52 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, there's not a guy on this roster outside of Cumberland who has unequivocally earned a starting spot. The current roster is not an excuse for mediocre recruiting.
Totally agree. The excuses have gotten absolutely ridiculous and downright pathetic. Like others have said, we don't have anyone on this roster outside of Cumberland who has the type of talent we had on our rosters throughout the 90's and early 2000's. People confuse quantity with quality.
UC had an absolute cakewalk this year to make the final four and yet again couldn't get out of the second round with a roster of 2 likely NBA players and a couple who will likely play overseas. If you can't make a run with that, its obvious it isn't going to happen unless you have difference makers and land high end talent.
(07-31-2018 02:09 PM)Marcus Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018 03:52 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, there's not a guy on this roster outside of Cumberland who has unequivocally earned a starting spot. The current roster is not an excuse for mediocre recruiting.
Totally agree. The excuses have gotten absolutely ridiculous and downright pathetic. Like others have said, we don't have anyone on this roster outside of Cumberland who has the type of talent we had on our rosters throughout the 90's and early 2000's.
Curious - which players through the 90's and early 2000's are you referring to? I would like to think today's roster stacks up rather favorably to former players like Shawn Myrick, Michael Horton, Jackson Julson, BJ Grove.
I am not trying to be funny here...but be very careful of revisionist history. UC has had its stars through the years, and a lot of role players otherwise.
Cincy just had 3 of its top 4 players move on. Everyone else on the roster was asked to be a role player. Let's be a little patient to see how the next crop of guys respond. No one (NO ONE) would have predicted Justin Jackson's senior season, as an example.
(07-31-2018 02:28 PM)GoCats1994 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-31-2018 02:09 PM)Marcus Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018 03:52 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, there's not a guy on this roster outside of Cumberland who has unequivocally earned a starting spot. The current roster is not an excuse for mediocre recruiting.
Totally agree. The excuses have gotten absolutely ridiculous and downright pathetic. Like others have said, we don't have anyone on this roster outside of Cumberland who has the type of talent we had on our rosters throughout the 90's and early 2000's.
Curious - which players through the 90's and early 2000's are you referring to? I would like to think today's roster stacks up rather favorably to former players like Shawn Myrick, Michael Horton, Jackson Julson, BJ Grove.
I am not trying to be funny here...but be very careful of revisionist history. UC has had its stars through the years, and a lot of role players otherwise.
Cincy just had 3 of its top 4 players move on. Everyone else on the roster was asked to be a role player. Let's be a little patient to see how the next crop of guys respond. No one (NO ONE) would have predicted Justin Jackson's senior season, as an example.
Shawn Myrick and Michael Horton were role players on rosters that included Danny Fortson, Reuben Patterson, Kenyon Martin, Pete Mickeal, Mel Levett, etc. If today's roster stacks up to the group you mentioned we are in trouble.
(07-31-2018 02:43 PM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ] (07-31-2018 02:28 PM)GoCats1994 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-31-2018 02:09 PM)Marcus Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018 03:52 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, there's not a guy on this roster outside of Cumberland who has unequivocally earned a starting spot. The current roster is not an excuse for mediocre recruiting.
Totally agree. The excuses have gotten absolutely ridiculous and downright pathetic. Like others have said, we don't have anyone on this roster outside of Cumberland who has the type of talent we had on our rosters throughout the 90's and early 2000's.
Curious - which players through the 90's and early 2000's are you referring to? I would like to think today's roster stacks up rather favorably to former players like Shawn Myrick, Michael Horton, Jackson Julson, BJ Grove.
I am not trying to be funny here...but be very careful of revisionist history. UC has had its stars through the years, and a lot of role players otherwise.
Cincy just had 3 of its top 4 players move on. Everyone else on the roster was asked to be a role player. Let's be a little patient to see how the next crop of guys respond. No one (NO ONE) would have predicted Justin Jackson's senior season, as an example.
Shawn Myrick and Michael Horton were role players on rosters that included Danny Fortson, Reuben Patterson, Kenyon Martin, Pete Mickeal, Mel Levett, etc. If today's roster stacks up to the group you mentioned we are in trouble.
This.
It's quite easy to cherry pick a couple of role player names, and present a case. However, a more true & thorough examination shows that we had some very special talent. Talent that exceeds what we have today.
To be fair, we def made tradeoffs back in those days. Just to acknowledge the holier than thou pro-Mick contingent.
All of that said, the last 2 years talent wasn't an issue. I thought those teams would be informative. What happens when you take the questions surrounding talent off the excuse table. What happens then?
Well, we all know what happened. The same ol same ol.
To Clifton's point, lack of adjustments, and a rigid/ stubborn adherence to a style of play among other things undercut us.
mc
^^ Just to be clear, I am not saying I expect us to have the 90s level of talent on the roster. I realize times are different. What I am saying is that the argument thrust about that we struggle in recruiting because we have a loaded roster doesn't pass the muster as everyone with the exception of Cumberland is still unproven at this point.