It's time to start hiring some assistants that are willing to give out $1,000 hand$hake$. Everyone else does it, but we do not. I think that's the main reason our recruiting isn't top notch.
There are some great points here IMO about why our recruiting is sub-par. These are my thoughts about the practicality of overcoming these obstacles:
- Stuck in the AAC - out of our control for now, but a look around the conference shows that this isn't insurmountable. See Memphis, UConn, SMU, WSU, and UH.
- Unattractive style of play - Mick won't change.
- Not sending players to the NBA - this past season may lead to a trend, but I believe it was more likely just an outlier. Mick probably won't change.
- Avoiding "big personality" recruits - Mick won't change.
- Goody Two-Shoes recruiting - Mick won't change.
When really looking at what some of our biggest problems are, it becomes apparent that we are on a plateau until major staff changes are implemented. As sensitive of a subject as this is, a staff change may have to include the head coach as well. However, seeing as Mick does not deserve to be fired, and is already getting paid too much for other schools to come offering a higher salary, we are stuck here for the foreseeable future.
He isn't a bad coach, it could be worse... but I will be very disappointed if our AD continues to give him raises and contract extensions until they are earned.
(07-16-2018 09:19 AM)Nasty Nati 513 Wrote: [ -> ]It's time to start hiring some assistants that are willing to give out $1,000 hand$hake$. Everyone else does it, but we do not. I think that's the main reason our recruiting isn't top notch.
Ha Ha
Obviously fractured logic......
(07-16-2018 08:40 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-16-2018 08:27 AM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ]I understand we are in the AAC and that is used against us in recruiting, but...
1. We have a beautiful new arena that opens up this year.
2. We play in front of a full house at home most nights.
3. We are not a Johnny-Come-Lately. Our basketball program has decades upon decades of success.
4. We have 8 tournaments in a row.
5. We just won the conference and conference championship game.
6. Recruits don't have to worry about coach leaving... he is not on the hot seat or looking elsewhere.
7. We pay a high COA.
8. Beautiful athletic dorms.
9. We have a couple games a year that get on CBS, frequently get on ESPN and ESPN 2 and nearly every game is on some form of TV.
10. We just turned over 3 guys were great players here and have positions of need.
11. We have on our OOC schedule Ohio State, UCLA, and other notable names that should be of interest.
There legitimately is no reason why we shouldn't be killing it in recruiting right now. The conference is not holding Houston, UConn and Memphis recruiting back. Those other schools all strikes against them the past few years (UConn/Memphis have had down years, bad attendance, etc. while Houston has awful attendance, lengthy stretch of irrelevance in hoops, etc.).
Three reasons why:
1) We play an unattractive and un-fun brand of basketball for most players.
2) Our coach has almost no track record of getting people into the League.
3) Our coach doesn't want to deal with kids who have big personalities.
There's a chance four guys (Lance, Jacob, SK, Caupain/Clark) see minutes this year in the league. I know that's not exactly a terrific record, but it's not terrible either.
For perspective, UCLA had 13 guys play in the league last year (obviously this will increase with Aaron Holiday and perhaps TJ Leaf seeing minutes for the Pacers).
On another note, it seems like we're in on some bigger recruits for this year and the next (Ky Ky Tandy, Samari Curtis, the 5-star guy form 2020), but I don't pay attention that much so who knows. It just seems like the 247 guys have been talking about a higher quality pool of recruits than we're used to. Maybe the new arena will start paying off.
(07-16-2018 10:33 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote: [ -> ] (07-16-2018 08:40 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-16-2018 08:27 AM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ]I understand we are in the AAC and that is used against us in recruiting, but...
1. We have a beautiful new arena that opens up this year.
2. We play in front of a full house at home most nights.
3. We are not a Johnny-Come-Lately. Our basketball program has decades upon decades of success.
4. We have 8 tournaments in a row.
5. We just won the conference and conference championship game.
6. Recruits don't have to worry about coach leaving... he is not on the hot seat or looking elsewhere.
7. We pay a high COA.
8. Beautiful athletic dorms.
9. We have a couple games a year that get on CBS, frequently get on ESPN and ESPN 2 and nearly every game is on some form of TV.
10. We just turned over 3 guys were great players here and have positions of need.
11. We have on our OOC schedule Ohio State, UCLA, and other notable names that should be of interest.
There legitimately is no reason why we shouldn't be killing it in recruiting right now. The conference is not holding Houston, UConn and Memphis recruiting back. Those other schools all strikes against them the past few years (UConn/Memphis have had down years, bad attendance, etc. while Houston has awful attendance, lengthy stretch of irrelevance in hoops, etc.).
Three reasons why:
1) We play an unattractive and un-fun brand of basketball for most players.
2) Our coach has almost no track record of getting people into the League.
3) Our coach doesn't want to deal with kids who have big personalities.
There's a chance four guys (Lance, Jacob, SK, Caupain/Clark) see minutes this year in the league. I know that's not exactly a terrific record, but it's not terrible either.
For perspective, UCLA had 13 guys play in the league last year (obviously this will increase with Aaron Holiday and perhaps TJ Leaf seeing minutes for the Pacers).
On another note, it seems like we're in on some bigger recruits for this year and the next (Ky Ky Tandy, Samari Curtis, the 5-star guy form 2020), but I don't pay attention that much so who knows. It just seems like the 247 guys have been talking about a higher quality pool of recruits than we're used to. Maybe the new arena will start paying off.
To be fair, two will be on two-ways, one is probably nearing the end, and another is just starting out. The fact that we have three guys in the NBA from the past two seasons and Mick still only has 5 NBA players overall (one of whom fell into his lap as he was virtually untouchable by nearly every other college by the end of his recruitment) in 9 years is kind of indicative of the greater point.
True, and it's definitely not a stable core of guys, as you mentioned. It's still trending (slightly) upward, considering all of those guys are recent (with Lance being here right before our current tournament run). I'm sure you'd find a similar trend with G-league/European professionals as well.
Overall, though, you are correct, Mick certainly isn't selling the NBA as his recruiting tool. I'm sure Jacob Evans will help.
(07-30-2018 09:48 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018 09:42 AM)Cat-Man Wrote: [ -> ]XU's new head coach hasn't coached a game yet and he's already getting higher ranked recruits than Mick:
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/...862462002/
Yeah, but Mick doesn't have unlimited access to a private jet.
He also has the ability to sell a recruit on 1) immediate starting time and 2) being able to play in the Big East.
(07-30-2018 09:42 AM)Cat-Man Wrote: [ -> ]XU's new head coach hasn't coached a game yet and he's already getting higher ranked recruits than Mick:
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/...862462002/
If he makes it to campus in 2020, which is a long time for an early commitment, I suspect he'll be their highest rated recruit
ever. That list of schools is not typical of ones X has historically recruited against and won.
When a rookie coach reels in a big catch before ever coaching a game, it provides more context for concerns expressed here about UC's recruiting with an experienced staff. Color 2018 as underwhelming and 2019 remains TBD.
(07-30-2018 09:51 AM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018 09:48 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018 09:42 AM)Cat-Man Wrote: [ -> ]XU's new head coach hasn't coached a game yet and he's already getting higher ranked recruits than Mick:
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/...862462002/
Yeah, but Mick doesn't have unlimited access to a private jet.
He also has the ability to sell a recruit on 1) immediate starting time and 2) being able to play in the Big East
wait, this is sarcasm, right?
how is he selling on playing time in
2020?!? at this moment how does either the coach or know what sorta playing time will be available then?
mc
A 20 recruit as Oki pointed out is still a long way away as most x fans would surely appreciate. However, i would be curious to know if a new assistant has not been recruiting or affiliated with this kid for a while. That's often at the root of early commitments.
(07-30-2018 10:45 AM)marcuscan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018 09:51 AM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018 09:48 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018 09:42 AM)Cat-Man Wrote: [ -> ]XU's new head coach hasn't coached a game yet and he's already getting higher ranked recruits than Mick:
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/...862462002/
Yeah, but Mick doesn't have unlimited access to a private jet.
He also has the ability to sell a recruit on 1) immediate starting time and 2) being able to play in the Big East
wait, this is sarcasm, right?
how is he selling on playing time in 2020?!? at this moment how does either the coach or know what sorta playing time will be available then?
mc
Aahh, I didn't see it was a 2020 recruit (why is this in the 2018 thread)?
(07-30-2018 11:50 AM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018 10:45 AM)marcuscan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018 09:51 AM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018 09:48 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018 09:42 AM)Cat-Man Wrote: [ -> ]XU's new head coach hasn't coached a game yet and he's already getting higher ranked recruits than Mick:
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/...862462002/
Yeah, but Mick doesn't have unlimited access to a private jet.
He also has the ability to sell a recruit on 1) immediate starting time and 2) being able to play in the Big East
wait, this is sarcasm, right?
how is he selling on playing time in 2020?!? at this moment how does either the coach or know what sorta playing time will be available then?
mc
Aahh, I didn't see it was a 2020 recruit (why is this in the 2018 thread)?
Fair point come to think about it.
But, i think the OP's point was just that, here comes a new coach who's totally unproven and he has already secured a highly rated recruit.
mc
(07-30-2018 12:17 PM)marcuscan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018 11:50 AM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018 10:45 AM)marcuscan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018 09:51 AM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018 09:48 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, but Mick doesn't have unlimited access to a private jet.
He also has the ability to sell a recruit on 1) immediate starting time and 2) being able to play in the Big East
wait, this is sarcasm, right?
how is he selling on playing time in 2020?!? at this moment how does either the coach or know what sorta playing time will be available then?
mc
Aahh, I didn't see it was a 2020 recruit (why is this in the 2018 thread)?
Fair point come to think about it.
But, i think the OP's point was just that, here comes a new coach who's totally unproven and he has already secured a highly rated recruit.
mc
Xavier's new coach was their lead recruiter. For whatever reason, Xavier always has more roster spots to fill so playing time is always available. It is a 2020 recruit and a lot can happen between now and the day he signs. Big East is still a huge advantage over the American.
can we close this thread?
I don't buy the playing time excuse. Maybe that was an argument when we had 3-4 year starters in Gary Clark, Jacob Evans and Kyle Washington, but aside for Jarron Cumberland there is nobody on our roster a decent recruit would or should fear sitting behind- and Cumberland is done in 2 years. Potential be damned, but most of the guys we will be relying heavy on this year are first time starters.
(07-30-2018 02:04 PM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ]I don't buy the playing time excuse. Maybe that was an argument when we had 3-4 year starters in Gary Clark, Jacob Evans and Kyle Washington, but aside for Jarron Cumberland there is nobody on our roster a decent recruit would or should fear sitting behind- and Cumberland is done in 2 years. Potential be damned, but most of the guys we will be relying heavy on this year are first time starters.
Are you talking about the 2018’s class? Evans was probably still projected to stay at UC when most of the 2018 players made their choice. UC only really needs a pg for 2019 as every other spot is two deep.
Outside of very special player it’s going to be difficult to crack the starting five in 2019. A pg or offensive minded big are the only two spots available of need.
(07-30-2018 03:07 PM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018 02:04 PM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ]I don't buy the playing time excuse. Maybe that was an argument when we had 3-4 year starters in Gary Clark, Jacob Evans and Kyle Washington, but aside for Jarron Cumberland there is nobody on our roster a decent recruit would or should fear sitting behind- and Cumberland is done in 2 years. Potential be damned, but most of the guys we will be relying heavy on this year are first time starters.
Are you talking about the 2018’s class? Evans was probably still projected to stay at UC when most of the 2018 players made their choice. UC only really needs a pg for 2019 as every other spot is two deep.
Outside of very special player it’s going to be difficult to crack the starting five in 2019. A pg or offensive minded big are the only two spots available of need.
two deep is a bit premature. I mean, yes in body count. But cumberland right now is the only proven player on this team. people can be optimistic about other players, but thats all it is at this point.
(07-30-2018 03:07 PM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018 02:04 PM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ]I don't buy the playing time excuse. Maybe that was an argument when we had 3-4 year starters in Gary Clark, Jacob Evans and Kyle Washington, but aside for Jarron Cumberland there is nobody on our roster a decent recruit would or should fear sitting behind- and Cumberland is done in 2 years. Potential be damned, but most of the guys we will be relying heavy on this year are first time starters.
Are you talking about the 2018’s class? Evans was probably still projected to stay at UC when most of the 2018 players made their choice. UC only really needs a pg for 2019 as every other spot is two deep.
Outside of very special player it’s going to be difficult to crack the starting five in 2019. A pg or offensive minded big are the only two spots available of need.
Two things:
1. Again, with the exception of Jarron Cumberland there is nobody on the projected 2019 roster that is proven to be unchallengeable. Its not like we are bringing back Danny Fortson, Kenyon Martin, Oscar and Steve Logan level players. We're talking about Nysier Brooks, Trevon Scott, Keith Williams, etc. who were role players in 2017 and will be foisted into starting minutes for the 1st time this year. Some of them will get better, some of them may not. Guys commit every day to other schools with returning guys with much better credentials/stats/etc. Taking your logic another step-- how the hell do we ever recruit anybody ever? There are always guys coming back.
2. Even if you buy the fact that Nysier Brooks and Trevor Moore is going to improve so much this season we will be hanging their jerseys in 5/3rd in a couple years, he will be gone in two years. Its the coaching staff's job to sell to the better recruits that they will need to redshirt or play one year in a reserve role. We can't keep going the JUCO or grad transfer route, and we can't always keep waiting two years for a guy to develop (we're not getting 5-star guy who can step in anyway).