Edit: before you think is one long quote, it isn't - it's snippets from lots of little quotes from various boards (as indicated).
TCU bloggers Wrote:Regular home games with Notre Dame could significantly increase the ACC's television revenue... Those posters who disparaged the idea of ND to the Bevo 10 would then see the hard way what value they can add to a conference even as a non-football member. More importantly, the ACC is literally the only place our conference could get new members from that would make a real splash. We can stay at 10, make plenty of money, and last for as long as the grant-of-rights lasts. But the league's fragility will not be fixed, and we will still be feeding at the whim of UT/OU. Rest assured, any good news for the ACC is potentially bad news for us.
So if ND plays football in the ACC obviously FSU and Clemson aren't going anywhere...
Poaching the ACC would become difficult to say the least. And We would all be at the mercy of OU and UT to stay put.
I don't want the ACC to get stronger. A healthy ACC is bad for the B12... with ND coming in, the Big 12 will never get FSU/Clemson... If ACC were to land ND for football, that would bad for us in the long run as it limits our expansion options. no question
what if ND to ACC for non-football sports in itself is enough to solidify its current membership? Then the only direction the Big 12 can go in expansion is ...teams in the Big East, or maybe BYU. And as things stand now, if UT decided to bolt to become an independent, the Big 12 is left with 9 teams and here we go again. OU to Pac 10 and the mad scramble begins yet again. This may be "doom and gloom" but it isn't beyond the realm of possibility... it limits the Big 12 expansion model and makes the conference a poaching mark in less than 13 years--not good news
The ACC is a much better academic fit for ND than the Big 12 and I wouldn't under rate that aspect of the deal with ND. ND also has long standing rivalries with Pitt and BC. I would not be at all surprised if they end up in the ACC.
FSU bloggers Wrote:ND is supposedly joining in all sports. conference football games (6 of them, i believe) will ALL be played at home for ND and none will be played before october (until their NBC deal runs out, at which point they are a regularly scheduled member).
WVU bloggers Wrote:What Fsu wants for ACC is realignment within conference also. Plus maybe a game or two against the Irish. I have heard FSU wants bigger draw games within ACC. Now how to do that. Well for one expand and get two football draws... Louisville and ND.
why would ND potentially join ACC? Only reason is if they thought their final destination was vulnerable. Negotiations are happening. 2015 will be interesting. ND will not go to Big 12.
ND bloggers Wrote:I will say that I would be amazed if the ACC were to accept partial membership from Notre Dame. We had Gene Corrigan on our Irish Huddle last year and he pretty much claimed it's all or nothing for the ACC. Like I've said before, though, the ACC would be my choice from an all-around perspective as long as there aren't too many unsettled and moving pieces.
It's where we are headed. If we have a big season maybe we can parlay a B12 deal where our Olympic sports would be ACC but we'd stay indie in football with 3-5 games a year against ACC opponents (which we kinda do already).
(07-09-2012 08:23 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]Edit: before you think is one long quote, it isn't - it's snippets from lots of little quotes from various boards (as indicated).
TCU bloggers Wrote:Regular home games with Notre Dame could significantly increase the ACC's television revenue... Those posters who disparaged the idea of ND to the Bevo 10 would then see the hard way what value they can add to a conference even as a non-football member. More importantly, the ACC is literally the only place our conference could get new members from that would make a real splash. We can stay at 10, make plenty of money, and last for as long as the grant-of-rights lasts. But the league's fragility will not be fixed, and we will still be feeding at the whim of UT/OU. Rest assured, any good news for the ACC is potentially bad news for us.
So if ND plays football in the ACC obviously FSU and Clemson aren't going anywhere...
Poaching the ACC would become difficult to say the least. And We would all be at the mercy of OU and UT to stay put.
I don't want the ACC to get stronger. A healthy ACC is bad for the B12... with ND coming in, the Big 12 will never get FSU/Clemson... If ACC were to land ND for football, that would bad for us in the long run as it limits our expansion options. no question
what if ND to ACC for non-football sports in itself is enough to solidify its current membership? Then the only direction the Big 12 can go in expansion is ...teams in the Big East, or maybe BYU. And as things stand now, if UT decided to bolt to become an independent, the Big 12 is left with 9 teams and here we go again. OU to Pac 10 and the mad scramble begins yet again. This may be "doom and gloom" but it isn't beyond the realm of possibility... it limits the Big 12 expansion model and makes the conference a poaching mark in less than 13 years--not good news
The ACC is a much better academic fit for ND than the Big 12 and I wouldn't under rate that aspect of the deal with ND. ND also has long standing rivalries with Pitt and BC. I would not be at all surprised if they end up in the ACC.
FSU bloggers Wrote:ND is supposedly joining in all sports. conference football games (6 of them, i believe) will ALL be played at home for ND and none will be played before october (until their NBC deal runs out, at which point they are a regularly scheduled member).
WVU bloggers Wrote:What Fsu wants for ACC is realignment within conference also. Plus maybe a game or two against the Irish. I have heard FSU wants bigger draw games within ACC. Now how to do that. Well for one expand and get two football draws... Louisville and ND.
why would ND potentially join ACC? Only reason is if they thought their final destination was vulnerable. Negotiations are happening. 2015 will be interesting. ND will not go to Big 12.
ND bloggers Wrote:I will say that I would be amazed if the ACC were to accept partial membership from Notre Dame. We had Gene Corrigan on our Irish Huddle last year and he pretty much claimed it's all or nothing for the ACC. Like I've said before, though, the ACC would be my choice from an all-around perspective as long as there aren't too many unsettled and moving pieces.
It's where we are headed. If we have a big season maybe we can parlay a B12 deal where our Olympic sports would be ACC but we'd stay indie in football with 3-5 games a year against ACC opponents (which we kinda do already).
Good finds here. Thanks!
good stuff Mark
We have a poster on the Cuse board who has an in with the NCState Athletic Department. He has been feeding us info for awhile...unlike WV fantasy writings his stuff has been spot on...not always blockbuster riveting but nearly always accurate
His latest take:
http://syracusefan.com/threads/confirmin...ion.28607/
Now that it is confirmed by Notre Dame later in the day than this original post was correct, please note that more than the Orange Bowl was and is being discussed. What happens from here is:
1. Orange Bowl link with Notre Dame (most likely definitive and announced within two weeks or less)
and perhaps an
2. Association with the ACC that passes further than the Orange Bowl and will have set dates to completion of what this association is and
3. Association that can lead to the ACC being the conference in a given period of time that Notre Dame embraces....based on 2 above.
I was told that Presidents were part of the discussion and the the Orange Bowl was not the only topic on the agenda between Notre Dame and the ACC. Presidents of ACC teams were not needed for #1 above.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
So the ACC looks to be trying to convince ND to come in and keep their perks while the ND contract is in effect. Gotta think ESPN has to be very interested in this....I'm getting more convinced that ND might jump to the ACC initially for all sports save FB.
(07-09-2012 09:50 PM)TexanMark Wrote: [ -> ]good stuff Mark
We have a poster on the Cuse board who has an in with the NCState Athletic Department. He has been feeding us info for awhile...unlike WV fantasy writings his stuff has been spot on...not always blockbuster riveting but nearly always accurate
His latest take:
http://syracusefan.com/threads/confirmin...ion.28607/
Now that it is confirmed by Notre Dame later in the day than this original post was correct, please note that more than the Orange Bowl was and is being discussed. What happens from here is:
1. Orange Bowl link with Notre Dame (most likely definitive and announced within two weeks or less)
and perhaps an
2. Association with the ACC that passes further than the Orange Bowl and will have set dates to completion of what this association is and
3. Association that can lead to the ACC being the conference in a given period of time that Notre Dame embraces....based on 2 above.
I was told that Presidents were part of the discussion and the the Orange Bowl was not the only topic on the agenda between Notre Dame and the ACC. Presidents of ACC teams were not needed for #1 above.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
So the ACC looks to be trying to convince ND to come in and keep their perks while the ND contract is in effect. Gotta think ESPN has to be very interested in this....I'm getting more convinced that ND might jump to the ACC initially for all sports save FB.
It seems like the gist of these rumors is that ND will join for all sports but it will take a few years for them to get out of their NBC contract, etc. so football will have to be phased in.
One FSU site reports that the ACC will try to use ND as leverage to get tier 3 football rights back from ESPN as well. Personally, I'd like to see Tier 1 rights split out and sold to NBC. Imagine an ACC game of the week (just like the SEC, but on a different network).
FSU bloggers Wrote:ND is supposedly joining in all sports. conference football games (6 of them, i believe) will ALL be played at home for ND and none will be played before october (until their NBC deal runs out, at which point they are a regularly scheduled member).
This part I doubt but all the rest seems plausible. It would be nice to get another boost in the TV contract. Maybe we can get ND to play on Friday night.
I'd rather get a dedicated channel from ESPN than have tier 3 back. I don't see the point in having it back and having to search for buyers for it. The b12 fans are treating tier 3 rights like it is gold they are hoarding under their bed and bragging about. What good does it do the fans if you can't see the content though? What good is it to get a million dollars to have it only broadcast in your state? At least with ESPN, they are putting it on a platform that alumni all over the world can access. Internet channels are going to be the future. The number of devices having internet channel capabilities is rapidly growing.
Ideally for me we'd get an ACC channel on DirecTV and also have a version of ESPN3 for ACC where you can see additional programming through computers, apple tv, xbox etc.
In regards to Notre Dame and bowl deals.
I don't think we should offer them partial membership. I do however see letting them in on our bowl deals if they are fully in. Give them first crack at the second Orange Bowl slot for meeting certain elite criteria. Then let them fall in line to the other bowls. The caveat being that they share bowl revenue the same way the rest of the ACC does. They are 1/15th of the bowl revenue.
I believe this would help the ACC up their bowl payouts and get into some better bowls. We may be needing one more after Cuse and Pitt join and UNC and Miami are eligible again.
No partial membership unless the following:
1 - 6 games for now but....
2 - ND full membership after the next BCS (or now NCS) contract runs out in 12 years.
If ND pulls out of agreement #2, then penalty will be double the ACC penalty.
(07-10-2012 03:48 AM)IberianPanther Wrote: [ -> ]No partial membership unless the following:
1 - 6 games for now but....
I'd be willing to negotiate, but 6 sounds right
Quote:2 - ND full membership after the next BCS (or now NCS) contract runs out in 12 years.
It sounds like they only want to wait until the NBC contract runs out in 2015, not 12 years
Quote:If ND pulls out of agreement #2, then penalty will be double the ACC penalty.
Agree in principle. The penalty must be appropriate for the amount of benefit the ACC is willing to give in the meantime. If it's only 2 years of partial though, $20 million is more than enough, IMO.
(07-09-2012 09:50 PM)TexanMark Wrote: [ -> ]good stuff Mark
We have a poster on the Cuse board who has an in with the NCState Athletic Department. He has been feeding us info for awhile...unlike WV fantasy writings his stuff has been spot on...not always blockbuster riveting but nearly always accurate
His latest take:
http://syracusefan.com/threads/confirmin...ion.28607/
Now that it is confirmed by Notre Dame later in the day than this original post was correct, please note that more than the Orange Bowl was and is being discussed. What happens from here is:
1. Orange Bowl link with Notre Dame (most likely definitive and announced within two weeks or less)
and perhaps an
2. Association with the ACC that passes further than the Orange Bowl and will have set dates to completion of what this association is and
3. Association that can lead to the ACC being the conference in a given period of time that Notre Dame embraces....based on 2 above.
I was told that Presidents were part of the discussion and the the Orange Bowl was not the only topic on the agenda between Notre Dame and the ACC. Presidents of ACC teams were not needed for #1 above.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
So the ACC looks to be trying to convince ND to come in and keep their perks while the ND contract is in effect. Gotta think ESPN has to be very interested in this....I'm getting more convinced that ND might jump to the ACC initially for all sports save FB.
Does seem kind of weird for multiple presidents to get involved in something that Swofford could of easily handled himself especially if it was non-PR meeting(press conference, etc.)
I hope they revive the deal they almost had in 2004 since the ACC doesn't need a team right away this time unlike in 2004 when they needed a team ASAP to have a title game.
I don't think Louisville ever gets into the ACC thanks to their CUSA history and low academics.
Just remember this about Notre Dame:
They are still in a position of strength--a 1 win ND makes the Semifinals
They will always look out for themselves (as they should)
Finally: They have been f'ing with conferences for 20 years now...i.e...this could be used as leverage with dealing with NBC/BE.
As long as they (a) continue playing ACC teams regularly, and (b) do not join the Big 12, then © I don't care if they join the ACC or not. However, having said that, (d) the upside is tremendous.
Hypothetically, if ND came in as a hoops only member, it would trigger a reopening of the TV deal under the "composition clause." If it agreed to 4-6 football games per year (half at ACC home sites), that could certainly be considered in the renegotiation.
I believe that ND is trying to achieve a national cable network devoted to ND. Discussions with the ACC could serve to bring in ESPN to compete with Comcast as a potential partner in the network.
(07-10-2012 09:10 AM)orangefan Wrote: [ -> ]Hypothetically, if ND came in as a hoops only member, it would trigger a reopening of the TV deal under the "composition clause." If it agreed to 4-6 football games per year (half at ACC home sites), that could certainly be considered in the renegotiation.
I believe that ND is trying to achieve a national cable network devoted to ND. Discussions with the ACC could serve to bring in ESPN to compete with Comcast as a potential partner in the network.
I believe the TV contract composition clause specifically states there has to be a change of 2 or more teams to trigger it... having said that, ESPN would fall all over themselves to sign Notre Dame, whether they HAD to renegotiate or not, IMHO.
From the BE point of view, it would be pretty shi**y of ND to have Swarbrick be the expansion committee, fill the BE with teams that give ND a national schedule in non-FB sports and then to leave them high and dry and move on to the ACC. But then ND has never been remotely concerned about how there position affects other schools.
If it's 6 games for a while and then join as a full member, I'd be ok with it. even if they wouldn't join as a full member until the ACC contract is up. The buy out should be ridiculously high though, like $100-$200 million because we know ND has plenty of money and wouldn't think twice about shi**ing all over us if they decide to change their mind.
They can figure into the Bowl situation as well but are not eligible for the ACC championship game or the ACC Orange bowl slot until they are a full member. The OB slot won't be necessary to them since they already have an at large deal with the OB.
I'm OK with allowing ND to park their olympic sports in the ACC provided there is a concrete plan about them becoming a full member within 10 years. This would include them having to play a certain number of ACC games per year for each of those years.
I'm just 100% against ND unless they are committed to being a member of the conference. It goes against the ACC's philosophy to have a partial member. As much as I despise ND, I am willing to bend this much for them because they are an independent and they should be able to play out the lion's share of the games they have scheduled in the future.
(07-10-2012 10:58 AM)ndlutz Wrote: [ -> ]I'm OK with allowing ND to park their olympic sports in the ACC provided there is a concrete plan about them becoming a full member within 10 years. This would include them having to play a certain number of ACC games per year for each of those years.
I'm just 100% against ND unless they are committed to being a member of the conference. It goes against the ACC's philosophy to have a partial member. As much as I despise ND, I am willing to bend this much for them because they are an independent and they should be able to play out the lion's share of the games they have scheduled in the future.
To everyone who is adamantly opposed to a phase-in period: this guy gets it!
The ACC would be nuts to pass on ND over a phase-in period. I think they'd be somewhat nuts if ND were to remain indy but give the ACC 6 games a year. (3 at ACC controlled sites and 3 at ND controlled sites.)
In all honesty the best situation for any conference and ND would be for ND to join in all sports but football, but also give 5 to 6 games a year to that conference's teams and to also bundle their FB media rights with that of the conference. In exchange they get the same conference payout as everyone else. I guarantee all make more money that way than if ND and Conference had their football deals separate. If they make those concessions why not let them retain their football schedule independence.
(07-10-2012 10:58 AM)ndlutz Wrote: [ -> ]I'm OK with allowing ND to park their olympic sports in the ACC provided there is a concrete plan about them becoming a full member within 10 years. This would include them having to play a certain number of ACC games per year for each of those years.
I'm just 100% against ND unless they are committed to being a member of the conference. It goes against the ACC's philosophy to have a partial member. As much as I despise ND, I am willing to bend this much for them because they are an independent and they should be able to play out the lion's share of the games they have scheduled in the future.
Similar to what I said on the RealignBoard (man, I have got to stop posting over there)...
Presidents aren't meeting to discuss bowl partnerships -- Swofford and Swarbick could have done that over a craft brew in DC when the Oversight Committee met to approve the "playoff".
Presidents meet to discuss conference affiliation and matters of academics.
ND knows the ACC stance on full membership.
The ACC knows ND's preference to be self-sufficient in FB.
Yet, the two need each other:
- ND needs a stable home for Men's Hoops and Lacrosse (there's that word again)
- The ACC needs FB "stroke"
My guesses:
1) They'll announce this Orange Bowl partnership -- it'll be done so effectively that ND faithful won't realize it's a smokescreen.
2) ND and the ACC will announce a scheduling agreement that will span most if not all of ND's new NBC TV deal that will see ND hosting 1 or 2 ACC schools each season during the life of the deal.
Again, it'll be done so effectively that ND faithful won't realize that when Wake Forest makes its second trip to South Bend in 2015 it'll be a de facto conference "preview".
2b -- I wouldn't be surprised if the ACC and ND agree to a season opening "Kickoff Game" to be telecast on ABC.
3) ND will be allowed to 'park' (or partner) its Olympic sports with the ACC in exchange for an agreement for the Irish to join as full members.
Also, for those who like to follow future schedules like I used to, keep track of Navy games involving ACC schools.
I don't buy into a lot of this... didn't we just hear last month that NBC was offering in the 24-million dollar range for just Notre Dame football, plus the Irish will get their share of the new Big East Deal, AND the Notre Dame/NBC-Hockey East ice hockey contracts too. Now they'll have Orange Bowl access... THERE IS NO WAY OR REASON they'd give that up to join the ACC for 17-million and change for all-sports rights.
It just doesn't make sense and NONE of our schools would do it either if we were in their shoes, they're making premium money and have their cherished independence.