(09-09-2018 02:25 AM)nightowl24 Wrote:  I disagree we have others that can't do it. What's out there can't hold up. We are 15yds of the ball. We're can't content for anything. We're aren't even giving other guys a chance. None the less we are in the game.

What other guys? Thorton was out with injury. We have 2 freshmen that played small private school ball and haven’t played yet. All the others have played so far this season I think. Including freshman Calderon who got called for that BS PI.

(09-09-2018 02:31 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(09-09-2018 02:25 AM)nightowl24 Wrote:  I disagree we have others that can't do it. What's out there can't hold up. We are 15yds of the ball. We're can't content for anything. We're aren't even giving other guys a chance. None the less we are in the game.

What other guys? Thorton was out with injury. We have 2 freshmen that played small private school ball and haven’t played yet. All the others have played so far this season I think. Including freshman Calderon who got called for that BS PI.

He wants Lawrence Cimino.

As far as speed, George Nw[...], looks to be a fast one. What is he, a Safety or LB for us??

(09-09-2018 01:14 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  And the defensive adjustments. Who knew such adjustments were even possible?

One of the comments from the Hawaii broadcast crew was "when you have a coaching staff that is worth a flip, you will see those defensive adjustments, and you have to figure out how to overcome them". I seriously doubt he knew how hurtful that was to long-suffering Rice fans.

(09-09-2018 02:25 AM)nightowl24 Wrote:  I disagree we have others that can't do it. What's out there can't hold up. We are 15yds of the ball. We're can't content for anything. We're aren't even giving other guys a chance. None the less we are in the game.

I do see fits of very good play from the secondary, including the interference call (I think late in the game, and I agree it was interference). It is wrong for the coaches to discipline players for mistakes made by executing a flawed scheme. The early success that Hawaii had was largely from slant routes ("RPO", which I got tired of hearing about during the game). The staff doesn't seem reluctant to pull players when the make mistakes, but I also wonder why Rice didn't seem prepared for those slants to start the game, but seemed able to adjust as early as the second quarter. I can see that both practicing against speed and knowledge of run-and-shoot schemes would both be an obstacle in preparation, but there were too many things that Rice put in place later in the game for those to have not been practiced before.

All of that said, I am completely sold on the quality of the coaching staff and their ability to prepare the team to compete and win. I'm not entirely sold on the schemes (as if that is meaningful), but I am very, very happy with this staff.

It's three games into year one. The staff is probably seeing many of the same things we are. They are still learning what our guys can do when you put other colors out on the field and turn the lights on. I am not disappointed in what I see so far. I will be disappointed if, a year from now, they are still trying to figure out how to use the talent they have. And I'll be livid if five 3-5 years in they still haven't adjusted. I expect to see some different schemes and some different bodies in different positions.

As I said, I'd be holding auditions for the secondary. Not just the listed DBs, although each of them would get a shot, but also any RBs or WRs who are down on the death chart but who can run and tackle and would like to get on the field any way they can.

The scheme was fine. The play was poor. I watched the whole game. The slant was open because we can't cover it. They give up inside leverage in press man, when their off thru aren't reading the route and getting a jump(lack of chance of direction and speed), when in zone or backers were in the window but the S couldn't drive on it in time to make a play.

I don't like disciplining players for making mistakes, but when your ability is showing you aren't getting the job done, give someone else a chance. Tbh the CB were ok today were need change st the safety spot this game. When you as a player KNOW you can mess up and they're still be no change you get complacent. Every player should fear for their job. You should be playing so hard because you know you have guys chomping at the bit for their chance. That's how you hey kids playing. Holding them accountable. You keep giving up the same thing you need to come have a seat for a couple of series. Let me see if your back up can do it. You continue to say we don't have anyone else, NO ONE ELSE IS PLAYING. They're giving up tds routinely, what can the bank yo do worse? Give him a shot. Any kid with speed should be working into the db rotation.

(09-09-2018 04:26 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  The scheme was fine. The play was poor. I watched the whole game. The slant was open because we can't cover it. They give up inside leverage in press man, when their off thru aren't reading the route and getting a jump(lack of chance of direction and speed), when in zone or backers were in the window but the S couldn't drive on it in time to make a play.

I don't like disciplining players for making mistakes, but when your ability is showing you aren't getting the job done, give someone else a chance. Tbh the CB were ok today were need change st the safety spot this game. When you as a player KNOW you can mess up and they're still be no change you get complacent. Every player should fear for their job. You should be playing so hard because you know you have guys chomping at the bit for their chance. That's how you hey kids playing. Holding them accountable. You keep giving up the same thing you need to come have a seat for a couple of series. Let me see if your back up can do it. You continue to say we don't have anyone else, NO ONE ELSE IS PLAYING. They're giving up tds routinely, what can the bank yo do worse? Give him a shot. Any kid with speed should be working into the db rotation.

That's the problem. Every kid with speed already is. We desperately need to get better athletes for the secondary.

We currently have no DBs committed for the 2019 class which is, to put it mildly, concerning.

(09-10-2018 10:00 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  We currently have no DBs committed for the 2019 class which is, to put it mildly, concerning.

Here’s a summary. Not very promising, we’re having a tough time getting kids from out of Texas to choose us over their low quality local programs. We’re losing some local kids to B12 schools but also to UNT, UTSA, TXState, UH. Even in the age of more scouted/ranked kids it looks like our class will mostly be 2 star or unranked unless we pull something and flip kids. Might take a few years of winning but you need players to win...

Looking at our 247 offers list:

QB- looks like we have our guy. Missed out on a guy going to A&M and one to Minnesota (from Texas which is odd)

We offered Cephus’ little brother (other offer is AF). Wonder if he’s a candidate for WR.

RB- we were never getting Spiller (A&M). Missed on a FL kid going to GT but have King who seems to be getting some attention for RBs from smaller TX schools. Looks solid.

WR- missed our top choices here. (SMU, Syracuse, NC state). Maybe we’ll land Wiggins who has good size at 6’3 and appears to be holding out for a bigger school. 1 commit Knipe looks like a Trammel or Zach Wright style slot guy at 5’11. I like taking someone like that each class. See above maybe Cephus is considered another WR offer?

TE- missed on guys for Auburn, Purdue, NW, UNT, TXstate. We’re young here but I guess Bloomgren will take at least 1 or 2 a year. 1 commit Bradley has good size. In the top 3 for another from AZ with good size as well.

OT- missed our top 2, both going to OSU. Have 1 offer out to a guy from Washington but doubtful we land him (offers AF, Arizona, Nevada, UVA, Utah State leading)

OG- missed our top 3 (UCLA,NW, ULL). Riddle committed from Highland Park.

Center- missed our top 2 (Stanford, Oregon). 1 commit is Floyd from Frisco. Plays DL there and looks pretty quick for a big guy. With Shea at center maybe he’ll redshirt or continue at DL?

WDE- missed everyone so far (UT, Navy, Purdue, Tech)

SDE- missed on top 3 (ND, NW x 2). 1 commit Moore seemed shaky even though he was our first commit he had a pinned offer from Tech on his twitter if I remember right.

DT- missed on top 2 (ND, CU). 1 offer out but it seems unlikely we land him.

ILB- missed all 3 (WMU, NDSU, Cal) to kids from those areas. No offers out.

OLB- missed on top 5. (BC, Cal x2, ULL). 1 commit Braden was offered by Kent State.

CB- missed on top 4 (Cal, Tech, OSU, Vandy). No offers out

Safety- 11 offers out. 5 committed (UH, NW, Tech, UTSA, MSU)

ATH- 5 offers. Lost 1 to Yale.

(09-10-2018 10:45 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  WDE- missed everyone so far (UT, Navy, Purdue, Tech)

SDE- missed on top 3 (ND, NW x 2). 1 commit Moore seemed shaky even though he was our first commit he had a pinned offer from Tech on his twitter if I remember right.

DT- missed on top 2 (ND, CU). 1 offer out but it seems unlikely we land him.

ILB- missed all 3 (WMU, NDSU, Cal) to kids from those areas. No offers out.

OLB- missed on top 5. (BC, Cal x2, ULL). 1 commit Braden was offered by Kent State.

CB- missed on top 4 (Cal, Tech, OSU, Vandy). No offers out

Safety- 11 offers out. 5 committed (UH, NW, Tech, UTSA, MSU)

ATH- 5 offers. Lost 1 to Yale.

Seems like the key word is "missed".

At Corner, I think we're still recruiting Pha'leak Brown from SC. He's listed on 247 as both a RB and a CB.

(09-10-2018 10:45 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  Here’s a summary. Not very promising, we’re having a tough time getting kids from out of Texas to choose us over their low quality local programs. We’re losing some local kids to B12 schools but also to UNT, UTSA, TXState, UH. Even in the age of more scouted/ranked kids it looks like our class will mostly be 2 star or unranked unless we pull something and flip kids. Might take a few years of winning but you need players to win...

You can read "tough time getting kids to commit" as the staff setting their sights high, granting there are other ways to interpret it...

I think that as players and high school coaches get to see what the staff is doing, they will see it is an attractive choice. It's not too surprising they have some difficulty recruiting with a new head coach and a staff that is mostly unknown in Texas.

With the exception of the first two of Hawaii's possessions, every minute of Owl football this season that I've been able to see or listen to has held my attention and left me pretty excited.

(09-09-2018 10:39 AM)Intellectual_Brutality Wrote:  As far as speed, George Nw[...], looks to be a fast one. What is he, a Safety or LB for us??

George is a Free Safety.

(09-10-2018 09:52 AM)RiceFootball2K5 Wrote:  

(09-09-2018 04:26 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  The scheme was fine. The play was poor. I watched the whole game. The slant was open because we can't cover it. They give up inside leverage in press man, when their off thru aren't reading the route and getting a jump(lack of chance of direction and speed), when in zone or backers were in the window but the S couldn't drive on it in time to make a play.

I don't like disciplining players for making mistakes, but when your ability is showing you aren't getting the job done, give someone else a chance. Tbh the CB were ok today were need change st the safety spot this game. When you as a player KNOW you can mess up and they're still be no change you get complacent. Every player should fear for their job. You should be playing so hard because you know you have guys chomping at the bit for their chance. That's how you hey kids playing. Holding them accountable. You keep giving up the same thing you need to come have a seat for a couple of series. Let me see if your back up can do it. You continue to say we don't have anyone else, NO ONE ELSE IS PLAYING. They're giving up tds routinely, what can the bank yo do worse? Give him a shot. Any kid with speed should be working into the db rotation.

That's the problem. Every kid with speed already is. We desperately need to get better athletes for the secondary.

Not necessarily. Here are a few guys on offense with speed that we could take a look at on defense:
1. Cam Montgomery
2. Chris Boudreaux
3. August Pitre

(09-10-2018 11:32 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 10:45 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  Here’s a summary. Not very promising, we’re having a tough time getting kids from out of Texas to choose us over their low quality local programs. We’re losing some local kids to B12 schools but also to UNT, UTSA, TXState, UH. Even in the age of more scouted/ranked kids it looks like our class will mostly be 2 star or unranked unless we pull something and flip kids. Might take a few years of winning but you need players to win...

You can read "tough time getting kids to commit" as the staff setting their sights high, granting there are other ways to interpret it...

I think that as players and high school coaches get to see what the staff is doing, they will see it is an attractive choice. It's not too surprising they have some difficulty recruiting with a new head coach and a staff that is mostly unknown in Texas.

With the exception of the first two of Hawaii's possessions, every minute of Owl football this season that I've been able to see or listen to has held my attention and left me pretty excited.

That’s the thing though... the misses so far on the recruiting trail haven’t been us going for 4 and 5 stars and missing. We’re missing the high 3s (granted I don’t think we’ve had a 4 star in the last 10 years).

(09-09-2018 04:26 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  The scheme was fine. The play was poor. I watched the whole game. The slant was open because we can't cover it. They give up inside leverage in press man, when their off thru aren't reading the route and getting a jump(lack of chance of direction and speed), when in zone or backers were in the window but the S couldn't drive on it in time to make a play.

I don't like disciplining players for making mistakes, but when your ability is showing you aren't getting the job done, give someone else a chance. Tbh the CB were ok today were need change st the safety spot this game. When you as a player KNOW you can mess up and they're still be no change you get complacent. Every player should fear for their job. You should be playing so hard because you know you have guys chomping at the bit for their chance. That's how you hey kids playing. Holding them accountable. You keep giving up the same thing you need to come have a seat for a couple of series. Let me see if your back up can do it. You continue to say we don't have anyone else, NO ONE ELSE IS PLAYING. They're giving up tds routinely, what can the bank yo do worse? Give him a shot. Any kid with speed should be working into the db rotation.

The last 2 weeks have been encouraging for the secondary, considering these were 2 of the premier offenses in the nation. No interceptions is a disappointment, but made plays to be in position, just dropped them. Vs Hawaii we made adjustments after getting burned by their star WR early on. Vs Houston, we started off well but the Cougs adjusted and were able to hit the long ball. I trust we're playing the best players we have. We could always use more speed, but guys like Bickham and Rober, while they have limitations, do some things well, I can live with them if we help them out (Bickham is good at defending short to medium throws, needs safety help on deep throws; Rober is fast but should not have to defend the other team's best WR one on one). Is Ellis coming back this season?

I agree about the coaching, I really like the way we are disguising coverages pre-snap, mixing it up, etc. Huge difference to years past!

(09-10-2018 01:06 PM)Buho00 Wrote:  

(09-09-2018 04:26 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  The scheme was fine. The play was poor. I watched the whole game. The slant was open because we can't cover it. They give up inside leverage in press man, when their off thru aren't reading the route and getting a jump(lack of chance of direction and speed), when in zone or backers were in the window but the S couldn't drive on it in time to make a play.

I don't like disciplining players for making mistakes, but when your ability is showing you aren't getting the job done, give someone else a chance. Tbh the CB were ok today were need change st the safety spot this game. When you as a player KNOW you can mess up and they're still be no change you get complacent. Every player should fear for their job. You should be playing so hard because you know you have guys chomping at the bit for their chance. That's how you hey kids playing. Holding them accountable. You keep giving up the same thing you need to come have a seat for a couple of series. Let me see if your back up can do it. You continue to say we don't have anyone else, NO ONE ELSE IS PLAYING. They're giving up tds routinely, what can the bank yo do worse? Give him a shot. Any kid with speed should be working into the db rotation.

The last 2 weeks have been encouraging for the secondary, considering these were 2 of the premier offenses in the nation. No interceptions is a disappointment, but made plays to be in position, just dropped them. Vs Hawaii we made adjustments after getting burned by their star WR early on. Vs Houston, we started off well but the Cougs adjusted and were able to hit the long ball. I trust we're playing the best players we have. We could always use more speed, but guys like Bickham and Rober, while they have limitations, do some things well, I can live with them if we help them out (Bickham is good at defending short to medium throws, needs safety help on deep throws; Rober is fast but should not have to defend the other team's best WR one on one). Is Ellis coming back this season?

I agree about the coaching, I really like the way we are disguising coverages pre-snap, mixing it up, etc. Huge difference to years past!

Massey has Hawaii at 73 and UH at 70 for offense. Part of that is weighed based on SoS, but it's still a far cry to go from 60th percentile to "premier in the nation"

(09-10-2018 11:58 AM)Pan95 Wrote:  

(09-09-2018 10:39 AM)Intellectual_Brutality Wrote:  As far as speed, George Nw[...], looks to be a fast one. What is he, a Safety or LB for us??

George is a Free Safety.

(09-10-2018 09:52 AM)RiceFootball2K5 Wrote:  

(09-09-2018 04:26 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  The scheme was fine. The play was poor. I watched the whole game. The slant was open because we can't cover it. They give up inside leverage in press man, when their off thru aren't reading the route and getting a jump(lack of chance of direction and speed), when in zone or backers were in the window but the S couldn't drive on it in time to make a play.

I don't like disciplining players for making mistakes, but when your ability is showing you aren't getting the job done, give someone else a chance. Tbh the CB were ok today were need change st the safety spot this game. When you as a player KNOW you can mess up and they're still be no change you get complacent. Every player should fear for their job. You should be playing so hard because you know you have guys chomping at the bit for their chance. That's how you hey kids playing. Holding them accountable. You keep giving up the same thing you need to come have a seat for a couple of series. Let me see if your back up can do it. You continue to say we don't have anyone else, NO ONE ELSE IS PLAYING. They're giving up tds routinely, what can the bank yo do worse? Give him a shot. Any kid with speed should be working into the db rotation.

That's the problem. Every kid with speed already is. We desperately need to get better athletes for the secondary.

Not necessarily. Here are a few guys on offense with speed that we could take a look at on defense:
1. Cam Montgomery
2. Chris Boudreaux
3. August Pitre

Montgomery is listed at 5'5" (probably really an inch or two shorter) and I think he's hurt. So that's not gonna work. Would be totally open to trying the other 2.

I don't the recruiting issues are that big of a deal right now. By my count we have 18 scholarships available for next year (probably a couple more after an early graduation or two and other attrition). We have 9 commits.

Look at some of the kids we signed late last year and how they are contributing so far: Montero, Chamberlain, Otoviano, Doddridge, Syptak we all got right before signing day, and we flipped Calderon back right before signing day. I wouldn't panic that we still have spots available. There are always good players to be had who have big senior years or who aren't getting a ton of attention right now for whatever reason. This staff seems like they do their homework on these kids. That said, speed at DB is a big issue and we better sign some athletic players there.

(09-10-2018 02:01 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 01:06 PM)Buho00 Wrote:  

(09-09-2018 04:26 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  The scheme was fine. The play was poor. I watched the whole game. The slant was open because we can't cover it. They give up inside leverage in press man, when their off thru aren't reading the route and getting a jump(lack of chance of direction and speed), when in zone or backers were in the window but the S couldn't drive on it in time to make a play.

I don't like disciplining players for making mistakes, but when your ability is showing you aren't getting the job done, give someone else a chance. Tbh the CB were ok today were need change st the safety spot this game. When you as a player KNOW you can mess up and they're still be no change you get complacent. Every player should fear for their job. You should be playing so hard because you know you have guys chomping at the bit for their chance. That's how you hey kids playing. Holding them accountable. You keep giving up the same thing you need to come have a seat for a couple of series. Let me see if your back up can do it. You continue to say we don't have anyone else, NO ONE ELSE IS PLAYING. They're giving up tds routinely, what can the bank yo do worse? Give him a shot. Any kid with speed should be working into the db rotation.

The last 2 weeks have been encouraging for the secondary, considering these were 2 of the premier offenses in the nation. No interceptions is a disappointment, but made plays to be in position, just dropped them. Vs Hawaii we made adjustments after getting burned by their star WR early on. Vs Houston, we started off well but the Cougs adjusted and were able to hit the long ball. I trust we're playing the best players we have. We could always use more speed, but guys like Bickham and Rober, while they have limitations, do some things well, I can live with them if we help them out (Bickham is good at defending short to medium throws, needs safety help on deep throws; Rober is fast but should not have to defend the other team's best WR one on one). Is Ellis coming back this season?

I agree about the coaching, I really like the way we are disguising coverages pre-snap, mixing it up, etc. Huge difference to years past!

Massey has Hawaii at 73 and UH at 70 for offense. Part of that is weighed based on SoS, but it's still a far cry to go from 60th percentile to "premier in the nation"

Well let’s say “two of the premier offenses on our schedule” and the point stands.

The Hawaii quarterback came in on track to break the season record with 4.5TD passes a game. We held him under his average at 4TD.

I’d predict both UHs will finish top 25 in scoring offense by season end but we’ll see.

honestly i can't respond to some of these posts because it would include highlighting the glaring weaknesses of certain players and I just don't like doing that. all i will say is a adamantly disagree that the past two week have been encouraging for our secondary. we need help and help bad. with just a mediocre secondary we actually win those games. i'll just leave it at that and calmly walk away.lol

nightowl24 - for the weaknesses in the secondary, is the bigger problem the lack of athleticism/quickness/speed, or lack of proper fundamentals? At least the 2nd can be improved with good coaching. If the guys just have stiff hips and are a step too slow, that makes it tougher.