(01-12-2018 11:50 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:45 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:42 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:36 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:18 AM)Crebman Wrote:  Please define for the the term I just bolded. Just what is a "spade"??

I guess I find it a bit ironic that you would use what MANY would term as a racist saying - and you aren't part of the group that would howl so you're not off the hook that way.

Now, because I'm not looking for something offensive under every rock and on every word, I really don't care - but a guarantee you there are people that would accuse you of being racist while saying someone else is racist just by what you typed in the bold above.......

Care to defend yourself?

Sorry I had no idea you had never heard the phrase.

Perhaps this will help.

To "call a spade a spade" is a figurative expression which refers to calling something "as it is",[1] that is, by its right or proper name, without "beating about the bush"—being outspoken about it, truthfully, frankly, and directly, even to the point of being blunt or rude, and even if the subject is considered coarse, impolite, or unpleasant. The idiom originates in the classical Greek of Plutarch's Apophthegmata Laconica, and was introduced into the English language in 1542 in Nicolas Udall's translation of the Apophthegmes, where Erasmus had seemingly replaced Plutarch's images of "trough" and "fig" with the more familiar "spade." The idiom has appeared in many literary and popular works, including those of Oscar Wilde, Charles Dickens, W. Somerset Maugham, and Jonathan Swift.

call a spade a spade
To address or describe the true nature of someone or something, even if it is unpleasant. The term originated from a translation of an ancient Greek phrase, but is considered offensive by some due to the later use of the word "spade" as a racial slur

I didn't call anyone a spade.

I used the entire phrase in it's original context.

The fact that you and others are attempting to claim I am a racist because I used this phrase is absolutely pathetic.

You used it in the below context. It does not matter what you though...only what others take it to mean. Isn't that exactly what you did with the President's word and in this thread?

In the late 1920s during the Harlem Renaissance, "spade" began to evolve into code for a black person, according to Patricia T. O'Connor and Stewart Kellerman's book Origins of the Specious: Myths and Misconceptions of the English Language. The Oxford English Dictionary says the first appearance of the word spade as a reference to blackness was in Claude McKay's 1928 novel Home to Harlem, which was notable for its depictions of street life in Harlem in the 1920s. "Jake is such a fool spade," wrote McKay. "Don't know how to handle the womens." Fellow Harlem Renaissance writer Wallace Thurman then used the word in his novel The Blacker The Berry: A Novel of Negro Life, a widely read and notable work that explored prejudice within the African-American community. "Wonder where all the spades keep themselves?" one of Thurman's characters asks. It was also in the 1920s that the "spade" in question began to refer to the spade found on playing cards.

The word would change further in the years to come. Eventually, the phrase "black as the ace of spades" also became widely used, further strengthening the association between spades and playing cards.

Wolfgang Mieder notes that in the fourth edition of The American Language, H.L. Mencken's famous book about language in the United States, "spade" is listed as one of the "opprobrious" names for "Negroes" (along with "Zulu," "skunk" and many other words that I can't print here). Robert L. Chapman struck a similar note in his Thesaurus of American Slang (1989). "All these terms will give deep offense if used by nonblacks," warned Chapman, listing "spade" in a group that included words like blackbird, shade, shadow, skillet and smoke.

The British author Colin MacInnes, who was white, frequently used the term in novels like City of Spades (1957) and Absolute Beginners (1959) about the multiracial, multicultural London of the 1950s and '60s. MacInnes has been criticized for his exotification and sexualization of black culture in his books. MacInnes also coined the cringeworthy word "spadelet" to refer to black infants.

As with many other racialized terms, there were efforts to reclaim the word after it had become a slur. Four years after Malcolm X was killed in 1965, poet Ted Joans eulogized him in his poem "My Ace of Spades." The artist David Hammons also explored the negative connotations to the word in his 1973 sculpture "Spade With Chains." Hammons once told an interviewer that he began to incorporate spades into his work because "I was called a spade once, and I didn't know what it meant ... so I took the shape and started painting it." And a character in 2009's Black Dynamite (a spoof of the blaxploitation films of the 1970s) tells a rival that he's "blacker than the ace of spades and more militant than you."

So what does all of this mean for people who want to, well, "call a spade a spade"? I urge caution. Mieder concludes his case study with the argument that "to call a spade a spade" should be retired from modern usage: "Rather than taking the chance of unintentionally offending someone or of being misunderstood, it is best to relinquish the old innocuous proverbial expression all together."

But I didn't call anyone a spade.

I used a commonly used phrase to mean Let's call it what it is.

(01-12-2018 01:07 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:50 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:45 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:42 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:36 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Sorry I had no idea you had never heard the phrase.

Perhaps this will help.

To "call a spade a spade" is a figurative expression which refers to calling something "as it is",[1] that is, by its right or proper name, without "beating about the bush"—being outspoken about it, truthfully, frankly, and directly, even to the point of being blunt or rude, and even if the subject is considered coarse, impolite, or unpleasant. The idiom originates in the classical Greek of Plutarch's Apophthegmata Laconica, and was introduced into the English language in 1542 in Nicolas Udall's translation of the Apophthegmes, where Erasmus had seemingly replaced Plutarch's images of "trough" and "fig" with the more familiar "spade." The idiom has appeared in many literary and popular works, including those of Oscar Wilde, Charles Dickens, W. Somerset Maugham, and Jonathan Swift.

call a spade a spade
To address or describe the true nature of someone or something, even if it is unpleasant. The term originated from a translation of an ancient Greek phrase, but is considered offensive by some due to the later use of the word "spade" as a racial slur

I didn't call anyone a spade.

I used the entire phrase in it's original context.

The fact that you and others are attempting to claim I am a racist because I used this phrase is absolutely pathetic.

You used it in the below context. It does not matter what you though...only what others take it to mean. Isn't that exactly what you did with the President's word and in this thread?

In the late 1920s during the Harlem Renaissance, "spade" began to evolve into code for a black person, according to Patricia T. O'Connor and Stewart Kellerman's book Origins of the Specious: Myths and Misconceptions of the English Language. The Oxford English Dictionary says the first appearance of the word spade as a reference to blackness was in Claude McKay's 1928 novel Home to Harlem, which was notable for its depictions of street life in Harlem in the 1920s. "Jake is such a fool spade," wrote McKay. "Don't know how to handle the womens." Fellow Harlem Renaissance writer Wallace Thurman then used the word in his novel The Blacker The Berry: A Novel of Negro Life, a widely read and notable work that explored prejudice within the African-American community. "Wonder where all the spades keep themselves?" one of Thurman's characters asks. It was also in the 1920s that the "spade" in question began to refer to the spade found on playing cards.

The word would change further in the years to come. Eventually, the phrase "black as the ace of spades" also became widely used, further strengthening the association between spades and playing cards.

Wolfgang Mieder notes that in the fourth edition of The American Language, H.L. Mencken's famous book about language in the United States, "spade" is listed as one of the "opprobrious" names for "Negroes" (along with "Zulu," "skunk" and many other words that I can't print here). Robert L. Chapman struck a similar note in his Thesaurus of American Slang (1989). "All these terms will give deep offense if used by nonblacks," warned Chapman, listing "spade" in a group that included words like blackbird, shade, shadow, skillet and smoke.

The British author Colin MacInnes, who was white, frequently used the term in novels like City of Spades (1957) and Absolute Beginners (1959) about the multiracial, multicultural London of the 1950s and '60s. MacInnes has been criticized for his exotification and sexualization of black culture in his books. MacInnes also coined the cringeworthy word "spadelet" to refer to black infants.

As with many other racialized terms, there were efforts to reclaim the word after it had become a slur. Four years after Malcolm X was killed in 1965, poet Ted Joans eulogized him in his poem "My Ace of Spades." The artist David Hammons also explored the negative connotations to the word in his 1973 sculpture "Spade With Chains." Hammons once told an interviewer that he began to incorporate spades into his work because "I was called a spade once, and I didn't know what it meant ... so I took the shape and started painting it." And a character in 2009's Black Dynamite (a spoof of the blaxploitation films of the 1970s) tells a rival that he's "blacker than the ace of spades and more militant than you."

So what does all of this mean for people who want to, well, "call a spade a spade"? I urge caution. Mieder concludes his case study with the argument that "to call a spade a spade" should be retired from modern usage: "Rather than taking the chance of unintentionally offending someone or of being misunderstood, it is best to relinquish the old innocuous proverbial expression all together."

But I didn't call anyone a spade.

I used a commonly used phrase to mean Let's call it what it is.

Yeah you did.

Why are you backpeddling so fast? Own your racism.

(01-12-2018 01:07 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:50 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:45 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:42 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:36 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Sorry I had no idea you had never heard the phrase.

Perhaps this will help.

To "call a spade a spade" is a figurative expression which refers to calling something "as it is",[1] that is, by its right or proper name, without "beating about the bush"—being outspoken about it, truthfully, frankly, and directly, even to the point of being blunt or rude, and even if the subject is considered coarse, impolite, or unpleasant. The idiom originates in the classical Greek of Plutarch's Apophthegmata Laconica, and was introduced into the English language in 1542 in Nicolas Udall's translation of the Apophthegmes, where Erasmus had seemingly replaced Plutarch's images of "trough" and "fig" with the more familiar "spade." The idiom has appeared in many literary and popular works, including those of Oscar Wilde, Charles Dickens, W. Somerset Maugham, and Jonathan Swift.

call a spade a spade
To address or describe the true nature of someone or something, even if it is unpleasant. The term originated from a translation of an ancient Greek phrase, but is considered offensive by some due to the later use of the word "spade" as a racial slur

I didn't call anyone a spade.

I used the entire phrase in it's original context.

The fact that you and others are attempting to claim I am a racist because I used this phrase is absolutely pathetic.

You used it in the below context. It does not matter what you though...only what others take it to mean. Isn't that exactly what you did with the President's word and in this thread?

In the late 1920s during the Harlem Renaissance, "spade" began to evolve into code for a black person, according to Patricia T. O'Connor and Stewart Kellerman's book Origins of the Specious: Myths and Misconceptions of the English Language. The Oxford English Dictionary says the first appearance of the word spade as a reference to blackness was in Claude McKay's 1928 novel Home to Harlem, which was notable for its depictions of street life in Harlem in the 1920s. "Jake is such a fool spade," wrote McKay. "Don't know how to handle the womens." Fellow Harlem Renaissance writer Wallace Thurman then used the word in his novel The Blacker The Berry: A Novel of Negro Life, a widely read and notable work that explored prejudice within the African-American community. "Wonder where all the spades keep themselves?" one of Thurman's characters asks. It was also in the 1920s that the "spade" in question began to refer to the spade found on playing cards.

The word would change further in the years to come. Eventually, the phrase "black as the ace of spades" also became widely used, further strengthening the association between spades and playing cards.

Wolfgang Mieder notes that in the fourth edition of The American Language, H.L. Mencken's famous book about language in the United States, "spade" is listed as one of the "opprobrious" names for "Negroes" (along with "Zulu," "skunk" and many other words that I can't print here). Robert L. Chapman struck a similar note in his Thesaurus of American Slang (1989). "All these terms will give deep offense if used by nonblacks," warned Chapman, listing "spade" in a group that included words like blackbird, shade, shadow, skillet and smoke.

The British author Colin MacInnes, who was white, frequently used the term in novels like City of Spades (1957) and Absolute Beginners (1959) about the multiracial, multicultural London of the 1950s and '60s. MacInnes has been criticized for his exotification and sexualization of black culture in his books. MacInnes also coined the cringeworthy word "spadelet" to refer to black infants.

As with many other racialized terms, there were efforts to reclaim the word after it had become a slur. Four years after Malcolm X was killed in 1965, poet Ted Joans eulogized him in his poem "My Ace of Spades." The artist David Hammons also explored the negative connotations to the word in his 1973 sculpture "Spade With Chains." Hammons once told an interviewer that he began to incorporate spades into his work because "I was called a spade once, and I didn't know what it meant ... so I took the shape and started painting it." And a character in 2009's Black Dynamite (a spoof of the blaxploitation films of the 1970s) tells a rival that he's "blacker than the ace of spades and more militant than you."

So what does all of this mean for people who want to, well, "call a spade a spade"? I urge caution. Mieder concludes his case study with the argument that "to call a spade a spade" should be retired from modern usage: "Rather than taking the chance of unintentionally offending someone or of being misunderstood, it is best to relinquish the old innocuous proverbial expression all together."

But I didn't call anyone a spade.

I used a commonly used phrase to mean Let's call it what it is.

The President never called anyone a shithole....you took it to mean what you wanted to.

Just as some took calling a spade a spade as racist. But there's even a huge difference on both. Calling a person a shithole has never before been called racist. Without adding something to the word shithole it can't be racist.

like below

"his black ass is a shithole" but even then it's not racist just because it black ass, white ass, purple ass, is not racist. You will still need add a word/term to that statement to get to racist. SHITHOLE doesnt get you there

But as I pointed out more than once..."calling a spade a spade" has been used as racist.

So to sum this up....you heard shithole and took that to mean racist. Some of us heard a comment that we knew was racist or used as a racist comment for all of our life. Then you puff up with "I'm not a racist"

Again...you might have meant it as something totally different. I'm welling to accept that. But you think you get to chose what the President meant.

Maybe it's because he's white you feel like that....RACIST!

(01-12-2018 11:50 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:45 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:42 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:36 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:18 AM)Crebman Wrote:  Please define for the the term I just bolded. Just what is a "spade"??

I guess I find it a bit ironic that you would use what MANY would term as a racist saying - and you aren't part of the group that would howl so you're not off the hook that way.

Now, because I'm not looking for something offensive under every rock and on every word, I really don't care - but a guarantee you there are people that would accuse you of being racist while saying someone else is racist just by what you typed in the bold above.......

Care to defend yourself?

Sorry I had no idea you had never heard the phrase.

Perhaps this will help.

To "call a spade a spade" is a figurative expression which refers to calling something "as it is",[1] that is, by its right or proper name, without "beating about the bush"—being outspoken about it, truthfully, frankly, and directly, even to the point of being blunt or rude, and even if the subject is considered coarse, impolite, or unpleasant. The idiom originates in the classical Greek of Plutarch's Apophthegmata Laconica, and was introduced into the English language in 1542 in Nicolas Udall's translation of the Apophthegmes, where Erasmus had seemingly replaced Plutarch's images of "trough" and "fig" with the more familiar "spade." The idiom has appeared in many literary and popular works, including those of Oscar Wilde, Charles Dickens, W. Somerset Maugham, and Jonathan Swift.

call a spade a spade
To address or describe the true nature of someone or something, even if it is unpleasant. The term originated from a translation of an ancient Greek phrase, but is considered offensive by some due to the later use of the word "spade" as a racial slur

I didn't call anyone a spade.

I used the entire phrase in it's original context.

The fact that you and others are attempting to claim I am a racist because I used this phrase is absolutely pathetic.

You used it in the below context. It does not matter what you though...only what others take it to mean. Isn't that exactly what you did with the President's word and in this thread?

In the late 1920s during the Harlem Renaissance, "spade" began to evolve into code for a black person, according to Patricia T. O'Connor and Stewart Kellerman's book Origins of the Specious: Myths and Misconceptions of the English Language. The Oxford English Dictionary says the first appearance of the word spade as a reference to blackness was in Claude McKay's 1928 novel Home to Harlem, which was notable for its depictions of street life in Harlem in the 1920s. "Jake is such a fool spade," wrote McKay. "Don't know how to handle the womens." Fellow Harlem Renaissance writer Wallace Thurman then used the word in his novel The Blacker The Berry: A Novel of Negro Life, a widely read and notable work that explored prejudice within the African-American community. "Wonder where all the spades keep themselves?" one of Thurman's characters asks. It was also in the 1920s that the "spade" in question began to refer to the spade found on playing cards.

The word would change further in the years to come. Eventually, the phrase "black as the ace of spades" also became widely used, further strengthening the association between spades and playing cards.

Wolfgang Mieder notes that in the fourth edition of The American Language, H.L. Mencken's famous book about language in the United States, "spade" is listed as one of the "opprobrious" names for "Negroes" (along with "Zulu," "skunk" and many other words that I can't print here). Robert L. Chapman struck a similar note in his Thesaurus of American Slang (1989). "All these terms will give deep offense if used by nonblacks," warned Chapman, listing "spade" in a group that included words like blackbird, shade, shadow, skillet and smoke.

The British author Colin MacInnes, who was white, frequently used the term in novels like City of Spades (1957) and Absolute Beginners (1959) about the multiracial, multicultural London of the 1950s and '60s. MacInnes has been criticized for his exotification and sexualization of black culture in his books. MacInnes also coined the cringeworthy word "spadelet" to refer to black infants.

As with many other racialized terms, there were efforts to reclaim the word after it had become a slur. Four years after Malcolm X was killed in 1965, poet Ted Joans eulogized him in his poem "My Ace of Spades." The artist David Hammons also explored the negative connotations to the word in his 1973 sculpture "Spade With Chains." Hammons once told an interviewer that he began to incorporate spades into his work because "I was called a spade once, and I didn't know what it meant ... so I took the shape and started painting it." And a character in 2009's Black Dynamite (a spoof of the blaxploitation films of the 1970s) tells a rival that he's "blacker than the ace of spades and more militant than you."

So what does all of this mean for people who want to, well, "call a spade a spade"? I urge caution. Mieder concludes his case study with the argument that "to call a spade a spade" should be retired from modern usage: "Rather than taking the chance of unintentionally offending someone or of being misunderstood, it is best to relinquish the old innocuous proverbial expression all together."

I'm pretty sure Erasmus comes first. Lol

(01-12-2018 10:44 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 10:39 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Trump and his supporters have always supported letting people into this country the same way most of our ancestors, from all countries, came here; Legally. With the full expectation that they would assimilate into American culture – learning the language, the history, and what made this country important.

If that makes me racist, I think you don't understand what racist means.

Most of our ancestors actually came to this country the same way the so called "illegals" came into this country.

1. They came uninvited

2. They didn't learn the language.

3. They did not assimilate.


You see, that is the problem with Trump and his supporters. They are a group of ignorant people who don't know the history of this continent so they make ignorant comments.

And people like you are why he was elected and why he'll win again...

(01-12-2018 12:36 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 12:19 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  That phrase has never been considered racist that I'm aware. Calling someone one, that's a different story.

Can we count on your scholarly defense the next time the left accuses someone of being racist for saying words like thug, or orient?

As soon as you call an apple an orange.

If fit, or anyone else, calls a black person a spade, then sure, I'll accuse them of racism.

(01-12-2018 03:21 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 12:36 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 12:19 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  That phrase has never been considered racist that I'm aware. Calling someone one, that's a different story.

Can we count on your scholarly defense the next time the left accuses someone of being racist for saying words like thug, or orient?

As soon as you call an apple an orange.

If fit, or anyone else, calls a black person a spade, then sure, I'll accuse them of racism.

So when are you going to accuse Fit of racism? Monday? Tuesday? When?

(01-12-2018 10:33 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  President Trump is a racist.

This isn't news to anyone. Everyone on this forum knows it. Some people don't care.

But let's call a spade a spade.

People are going to be on this forum all day trying to deflect, point the finger at other people and say things like. " But Hillary this" and "but Obama that".


Let's not pretend anymore. The man's immigration policy comes from a personal hatred of the browning of America.

Good Lord. Its official. Democrats hate working class whites and want to displace them. Same ridiculous logic fiipped to attack the other party. The man called these countries "---holes". Well...they kinda are. If they were such a slice of paradise their popuations wouldnt be wanting to leave these countries now would they? There is nothing wrong with using immigration to create a smarter more innovative nation by importing the highly skilled rather than those that will consume US safety net resources meant for our poor.

(01-12-2018 03:31 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 03:21 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 12:36 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 12:19 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  That phrase has never been considered racist that I'm aware. Calling someone one, that's a different story.

Can we count on your scholarly defense the next time the left accuses someone of being racist for saying words like thug, or orient?

As soon as you call an apple an orange.

If fit, or anyone else, calls a black person a spade, then sure, I'll accuse them of racism.

So when are you going to accuse Fit of racism? Monday? Tuesday? When?

As soon as he says something racist.

You guys are being completely ridiculous. Not surprised, but it's just sad nonetheless.

(01-12-2018 11:50 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:47 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:15 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 10:47 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 10:44 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Most of our ancestors actually came to this country the same way the so called "illegals" came into this country.

1. They came uninvited

2. They didn't learn the language.

3. They did not assimilate.

You forgot #4. They came here legally.

NO they didn't. Just because their was no law in the books somewhere doesn't make it legal.

I suppose you think it was legal for them to murder Native Americans and rape the women as well since there was likely no law against it.

Here it is, folks. The exact moment when Fit went full-Mach.

Those two goons probably have a standing Daily PM to discuss the talking points.

(01-12-2018 01:08 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 01:07 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:50 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:45 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:42 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  call a spade a spade
To address or describe the true nature of someone or something, even if it is unpleasant. The term originated from a translation of an ancient Greek phrase, but is considered offensive by some due to the later use of the word "spade" as a racial slur

I didn't call anyone a spade.

I used the entire phrase in it's original context.

The fact that you and others are attempting to claim I am a racist because I used this phrase is absolutely pathetic.

You used it in the below context. It does not matter what you though...only what others take it to mean. Isn't that exactly what you did with the President's word and in this thread?

In the late 1920s during the Harlem Renaissance, "spade" began to evolve into code for a black person, according to Patricia T. O'Connor and Stewart Kellerman's book Origins of the Specious: Myths and Misconceptions of the English Language. The Oxford English Dictionary says the first appearance of the word spade as a reference to blackness was in Claude McKay's 1928 novel Home to Harlem, which was notable for its depictions of street life in Harlem in the 1920s. "Jake is such a fool spade," wrote McKay. "Don't know how to handle the womens." Fellow Harlem Renaissance writer Wallace Thurman then used the word in his novel The Blacker The Berry: A Novel of Negro Life, a widely read and notable work that explored prejudice within the African-American community. "Wonder where all the spades keep themselves?" one of Thurman's characters asks. It was also in the 1920s that the "spade" in question began to refer to the spade found on playing cards.

The word would change further in the years to come. Eventually, the phrase "black as the ace of spades" also became widely used, further strengthening the association between spades and playing cards.

Wolfgang Mieder notes that in the fourth edition of The American Language, H.L. Mencken's famous book about language in the United States, "spade" is listed as one of the "opprobrious" names for "Negroes" (along with "Zulu," "skunk" and many other words that I can't print here). Robert L. Chapman struck a similar note in his Thesaurus of American Slang (1989). "All these terms will give deep offense if used by nonblacks," warned Chapman, listing "spade" in a group that included words like blackbird, shade, shadow, skillet and smoke.

The British author Colin MacInnes, who was white, frequently used the term in novels like City of Spades (1957) and Absolute Beginners (1959) about the multiracial, multicultural London of the 1950s and '60s. MacInnes has been criticized for his exotification and sexualization of black culture in his books. MacInnes also coined the cringeworthy word "spadelet" to refer to black infants.

As with many other racialized terms, there were efforts to reclaim the word after it had become a slur. Four years after Malcolm X was killed in 1965, poet Ted Joans eulogized him in his poem "My Ace of Spades." The artist David Hammons also explored the negative connotations to the word in his 1973 sculpture "Spade With Chains." Hammons once told an interviewer that he began to incorporate spades into his work because "I was called a spade once, and I didn't know what it meant ... so I took the shape and started painting it." And a character in 2009's Black Dynamite (a spoof of the blaxploitation films of the 1970s) tells a rival that he's "blacker than the ace of spades and more militant than you."

So what does all of this mean for people who want to, well, "call a spade a spade"? I urge caution. Mieder concludes his case study with the argument that "to call a spade a spade" should be retired from modern usage: "Rather than taking the chance of unintentionally offending someone or of being misunderstood, it is best to relinquish the old innocuous proverbial expression all together."

But I didn't call anyone a spade.

I used a commonly used phrase to mean Let's call it what it is.

Yeah you did.

Why are you backpeddling so fast? Own your racism.

Okay if I did, tell me who I called a "Spade"

(01-12-2018 03:21 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 12:36 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 12:19 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  That phrase has never been considered racist that I'm aware. Calling someone one, that's a different story.

Can we count on your scholarly defense the next time the left accuses someone of being racist for saying words like thug, or orient?

As soon as you call an apple an orange.

If fit, or anyone else, calls a black person a spade, then sure, I'll accuse them of racism.

"Spade" being a derogatory word is the only reason that colloquialism exists. One can't use that term without it being derogatory. Substitute a more socially relevant slur for "spade" and see how it sounds. Its awful either way.

I don't use that phrase just for that reason. I find it offensive. And, I'm as pasty pink as they come.

The next time someone mentions being "gypped," they should be slapped too.

(01-12-2018 03:40 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 01:08 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 01:07 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:50 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:45 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  I didn't call anyone a spade.

I used the entire phrase in it's original context.

The fact that you and others are attempting to claim I am a racist because I used this phrase is absolutely pathetic.

You used it in the below context. It does not matter what you though...only what others take it to mean. Isn't that exactly what you did with the President's word and in this thread?

In the late 1920s during the Harlem Renaissance, "spade" began to evolve into code for a black person, according to Patricia T. O'Connor and Stewart Kellerman's book Origins of the Specious: Myths and Misconceptions of the English Language. The Oxford English Dictionary says the first appearance of the word spade as a reference to blackness was in Claude McKay's 1928 novel Home to Harlem, which was notable for its depictions of street life in Harlem in the 1920s. "Jake is such a fool spade," wrote McKay. "Don't know how to handle the womens." Fellow Harlem Renaissance writer Wallace Thurman then used the word in his novel The Blacker The Berry: A Novel of Negro Life, a widely read and notable work that explored prejudice within the African-American community. "Wonder where all the spades keep themselves?" one of Thurman's characters asks. It was also in the 1920s that the "spade" in question began to refer to the spade found on playing cards.

The word would change further in the years to come. Eventually, the phrase "black as the ace of spades" also became widely used, further strengthening the association between spades and playing cards.

Wolfgang Mieder notes that in the fourth edition of The American Language, H.L. Mencken's famous book about language in the United States, "spade" is listed as one of the "opprobrious" names for "Negroes" (along with "Zulu," "skunk" and many other words that I can't print here). Robert L. Chapman struck a similar note in his Thesaurus of American Slang (1989). "All these terms will give deep offense if used by nonblacks," warned Chapman, listing "spade" in a group that included words like blackbird, shade, shadow, skillet and smoke.

The British author Colin MacInnes, who was white, frequently used the term in novels like City of Spades (1957) and Absolute Beginners (1959) about the multiracial, multicultural London of the 1950s and '60s. MacInnes has been criticized for his exotification and sexualization of black culture in his books. MacInnes also coined the cringeworthy word "spadelet" to refer to black infants.

As with many other racialized terms, there were efforts to reclaim the word after it had become a slur. Four years after Malcolm X was killed in 1965, poet Ted Joans eulogized him in his poem "My Ace of Spades." The artist David Hammons also explored the negative connotations to the word in his 1973 sculpture "Spade With Chains." Hammons once told an interviewer that he began to incorporate spades into his work because "I was called a spade once, and I didn't know what it meant ... so I took the shape and started painting it." And a character in 2009's Black Dynamite (a spoof of the blaxploitation films of the 1970s) tells a rival that he's "blacker than the ace of spades and more militant than you."

So what does all of this mean for people who want to, well, "call a spade a spade"? I urge caution. Mieder concludes his case study with the argument that "to call a spade a spade" should be retired from modern usage: "Rather than taking the chance of unintentionally offending someone or of being misunderstood, it is best to relinquish the old innocuous proverbial expression all together."

But I didn't call anyone a spade.

I used a commonly used phrase to mean Let's call it what it is.

Yeah you did.

Why are you backpeddling so fast? Own your racism.

Okay if I did, tell me who I called a "Spade"

racist gonna be racist

(01-12-2018 03:40 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 01:08 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 01:07 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:50 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:45 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  I didn't call anyone a spade.

I used the entire phrase in it's original context.

The fact that you and others are attempting to claim I am a racist because I used this phrase is absolutely pathetic.

You used it in the below context. It does not matter what you though...only what others take it to mean. Isn't that exactly what you did with the President's word and in this thread?

In the late 1920s during the Harlem Renaissance, "spade" began to evolve into code for a black person, according to Patricia T. O'Connor and Stewart Kellerman's book Origins of the Specious: Myths and Misconceptions of the English Language. The Oxford English Dictionary says the first appearance of the word spade as a reference to blackness was in Claude McKay's 1928 novel Home to Harlem, which was notable for its depictions of street life in Harlem in the 1920s. "Jake is such a fool spade," wrote McKay. "Don't know how to handle the womens." Fellow Harlem Renaissance writer Wallace Thurman then used the word in his novel The Blacker The Berry: A Novel of Negro Life, a widely read and notable work that explored prejudice within the African-American community. "Wonder where all the spades keep themselves?" one of Thurman's characters asks. It was also in the 1920s that the "spade" in question began to refer to the spade found on playing cards.

The word would change further in the years to come. Eventually, the phrase "black as the ace of spades" also became widely used, further strengthening the association between spades and playing cards.

Wolfgang Mieder notes that in the fourth edition of The American Language, H.L. Mencken's famous book about language in the United States, "spade" is listed as one of the "opprobrious" names for "Negroes" (along with "Zulu," "skunk" and many other words that I can't print here). Robert L. Chapman struck a similar note in his Thesaurus of American Slang (1989). "All these terms will give deep offense if used by nonblacks," warned Chapman, listing "spade" in a group that included words like blackbird, shade, shadow, skillet and smoke.

The British author Colin MacInnes, who was white, frequently used the term in novels like City of Spades (1957) and Absolute Beginners (1959) about the multiracial, multicultural London of the 1950s and '60s. MacInnes has been criticized for his exotification and sexualization of black culture in his books. MacInnes also coined the cringeworthy word "spadelet" to refer to black infants.

As with many other racialized terms, there were efforts to reclaim the word after it had become a slur. Four years after Malcolm X was killed in 1965, poet Ted Joans eulogized him in his poem "My Ace of Spades." The artist David Hammons also explored the negative connotations to the word in his 1973 sculpture "Spade With Chains." Hammons once told an interviewer that he began to incorporate spades into his work because "I was called a spade once, and I didn't know what it meant ... so I took the shape and started painting it." And a character in 2009's Black Dynamite (a spoof of the blaxploitation films of the 1970s) tells a rival that he's "blacker than the ace of spades and more militant than you."

So what does all of this mean for people who want to, well, "call a spade a spade"? I urge caution. Mieder concludes his case study with the argument that "to call a spade a spade" should be retired from modern usage: "Rather than taking the chance of unintentionally offending someone or of being misunderstood, it is best to relinquish the old innocuous proverbial expression all together."

But I didn't call anyone a spade.

I used a commonly used phrase to mean Let's call it what it is.

Yeah you did.

Why are you backpeddling so fast? Own your racism.

Okay if I did, tell me who I called a "Spade"

"To call a spade a spade" clearly communicates that someone must be a "spade."

The whole thing is offensive.

(01-12-2018 03:56 PM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 03:40 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 01:08 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 01:07 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:50 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  You used it in the below context. It does not matter what you though...only what others take it to mean. Isn't that exactly what you did with the President's word and in this thread?

In the late 1920s during the Harlem Renaissance, "spade" began to evolve into code for a black person, according to Patricia T. O'Connor and Stewart Kellerman's book Origins of the Specious: Myths and Misconceptions of the English Language. The Oxford English Dictionary says the first appearance of the word spade as a reference to blackness was in Claude McKay's 1928 novel Home to Harlem, which was notable for its depictions of street life in Harlem in the 1920s. "Jake is such a fool spade," wrote McKay. "Don't know how to handle the womens." Fellow Harlem Renaissance writer Wallace Thurman then used the word in his novel The Blacker The Berry: A Novel of Negro Life, a widely read and notable work that explored prejudice within the African-American community. "Wonder where all the spades keep themselves?" one of Thurman's characters asks. It was also in the 1920s that the "spade" in question began to refer to the spade found on playing cards.

The word would change further in the years to come. Eventually, the phrase "black as the ace of spades" also became widely used, further strengthening the association between spades and playing cards.

Wolfgang Mieder notes that in the fourth edition of The American Language, H.L. Mencken's famous book about language in the United States, "spade" is listed as one of the "opprobrious" names for "Negroes" (along with "Zulu," "skunk" and many other words that I can't print here). Robert L. Chapman struck a similar note in his Thesaurus of American Slang (1989). "All these terms will give deep offense if used by nonblacks," warned Chapman, listing "spade" in a group that included words like blackbird, shade, shadow, skillet and smoke.

The British author Colin MacInnes, who was white, frequently used the term in novels like City of Spades (1957) and Absolute Beginners (1959) about the multiracial, multicultural London of the 1950s and '60s. MacInnes has been criticized for his exotification and sexualization of black culture in his books. MacInnes also coined the cringeworthy word "spadelet" to refer to black infants.

As with many other racialized terms, there were efforts to reclaim the word after it had become a slur. Four years after Malcolm X was killed in 1965, poet Ted Joans eulogized him in his poem "My Ace of Spades." The artist David Hammons also explored the negative connotations to the word in his 1973 sculpture "Spade With Chains." Hammons once told an interviewer that he began to incorporate spades into his work because "I was called a spade once, and I didn't know what it meant ... so I took the shape and started painting it." And a character in 2009's Black Dynamite (a spoof of the blaxploitation films of the 1970s) tells a rival that he's "blacker than the ace of spades and more militant than you."

So what does all of this mean for people who want to, well, "call a spade a spade"? I urge caution. Mieder concludes his case study with the argument that "to call a spade a spade" should be retired from modern usage: "Rather than taking the chance of unintentionally offending someone or of being misunderstood, it is best to relinquish the old innocuous proverbial expression all together."

But I didn't call anyone a spade.

I used a commonly used phrase to mean Let's call it what it is.

Yeah you did.

Why are you backpeddling so fast? Own your racism.

Okay if I did, tell me who I called a "Spade"

"To call a spade a spade" clearly communicates that someone must be a "spade."

The whole thing is offensive.

I cant believe Fit keeps digging a bigger hole. And none of the other libturds disavow, either.

(01-12-2018 03:40 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 01:08 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 01:07 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:50 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:45 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  I didn't call anyone a spade.

I used the entire phrase in it's original context.

The fact that you and others are attempting to claim I am a racist because I used this phrase is absolutely pathetic.

You used it in the below context. It does not matter what you though...only what others take it to mean. Isn't that exactly what you did with the President's word and in this thread?

In the late 1920s during the Harlem Renaissance, "spade" began to evolve into code for a black person, according to Patricia T. O'Connor and Stewart Kellerman's book Origins of the Specious: Myths and Misconceptions of the English Language. The Oxford English Dictionary says the first appearance of the word spade as a reference to blackness was in Claude McKay's 1928 novel Home to Harlem, which was notable for its depictions of street life in Harlem in the 1920s. "Jake is such a fool spade," wrote McKay. "Don't know how to handle the womens." Fellow Harlem Renaissance writer Wallace Thurman then used the word in his novel The Blacker The Berry: A Novel of Negro Life, a widely read and notable work that explored prejudice within the African-American community. "Wonder where all the spades keep themselves?" one of Thurman's characters asks. It was also in the 1920s that the "spade" in question began to refer to the spade found on playing cards.

The word would change further in the years to come. Eventually, the phrase "black as the ace of spades" also became widely used, further strengthening the association between spades and playing cards.

Wolfgang Mieder notes that in the fourth edition of The American Language, H.L. Mencken's famous book about language in the United States, "spade" is listed as one of the "opprobrious" names for "Negroes" (along with "Zulu," "skunk" and many other words that I can't print here). Robert L. Chapman struck a similar note in his Thesaurus of American Slang (1989). "All these terms will give deep offense if used by nonblacks," warned Chapman, listing "spade" in a group that included words like blackbird, shade, shadow, skillet and smoke.

The British author Colin MacInnes, who was white, frequently used the term in novels like City of Spades (1957) and Absolute Beginners (1959) about the multiracial, multicultural London of the 1950s and '60s. MacInnes has been criticized for his exotification and sexualization of black culture in his books. MacInnes also coined the cringeworthy word "spadelet" to refer to black infants.

As with many other racialized terms, there were efforts to reclaim the word after it had become a slur. Four years after Malcolm X was killed in 1965, poet Ted Joans eulogized him in his poem "My Ace of Spades." The artist David Hammons also explored the negative connotations to the word in his 1973 sculpture "Spade With Chains." Hammons once told an interviewer that he began to incorporate spades into his work because "I was called a spade once, and I didn't know what it meant ... so I took the shape and started painting it." And a character in 2009's Black Dynamite (a spoof of the blaxploitation films of the 1970s) tells a rival that he's "blacker than the ace of spades and more militant than you."

So what does all of this mean for people who want to, well, "call a spade a spade"? I urge caution. Mieder concludes his case study with the argument that "to call a spade a spade" should be retired from modern usage: "Rather than taking the chance of unintentionally offending someone or of being misunderstood, it is best to relinquish the old innocuous proverbial expression all together."

But I didn't call anyone a spade.

I used a commonly used phrase to mean Let's call it what it is.

Yeah you did.

Why are you backpeddling so fast? Own your racism.

Okay if I did, tell me who I called a "Spade"

Haitians and "brown people". Will you own your racism now? or, will you continue to deny you meant blacks, err.....African-Americans, when you called a "spade a spade"?

(01-12-2018 03:37 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 03:31 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 03:21 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 12:36 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 12:19 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  That phrase has never been considered racist that I'm aware. Calling someone one, that's a different story.

Can we count on your scholarly defense the next time the left accuses someone of being racist for saying words like thug, or orient?

As soon as you call an apple an orange.

If fit, or anyone else, calls a black person a spade, then sure, I'll accuse them of racism.

So when are you going to accuse Fit of racism? Monday? Tuesday? When?

As soon as he says something racist.

You guys are being completely ridiculous. Not surprised, but it's just sad nonetheless.

It's right there in the OP. I'm not the least bit shocked you can't see it, but then I remember you and Fit are on the same side. Not surprised you won't call out a fellow lefty, but it's par for the course with you.

(01-12-2018 03:56 PM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 03:40 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 01:08 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 01:07 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:50 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  You used it in the below context. It does not matter what you though...only what others take it to mean. Isn't that exactly what you did with the President's word and in this thread?

In the late 1920s during the Harlem Renaissance, "spade" began to evolve into code for a black person, according to Patricia T. O'Connor and Stewart Kellerman's book Origins of the Specious: Myths and Misconceptions of the English Language. The Oxford English Dictionary says the first appearance of the word spade as a reference to blackness was in Claude McKay's 1928 novel Home to Harlem, which was notable for its depictions of street life in Harlem in the 1920s. "Jake is such a fool spade," wrote McKay. "Don't know how to handle the womens." Fellow Harlem Renaissance writer Wallace Thurman then used the word in his novel The Blacker The Berry: A Novel of Negro Life, a widely read and notable work that explored prejudice within the African-American community. "Wonder where all the spades keep themselves?" one of Thurman's characters asks. It was also in the 1920s that the "spade" in question began to refer to the spade found on playing cards.

The word would change further in the years to come. Eventually, the phrase "black as the ace of spades" also became widely used, further strengthening the association between spades and playing cards.

Wolfgang Mieder notes that in the fourth edition of The American Language, H.L. Mencken's famous book about language in the United States, "spade" is listed as one of the "opprobrious" names for "Negroes" (along with "Zulu," "skunk" and many other words that I can't print here). Robert L. Chapman struck a similar note in his Thesaurus of American Slang (1989). "All these terms will give deep offense if used by nonblacks," warned Chapman, listing "spade" in a group that included words like blackbird, shade, shadow, skillet and smoke.

The British author Colin MacInnes, who was white, frequently used the term in novels like City of Spades (1957) and Absolute Beginners (1959) about the multiracial, multicultural London of the 1950s and '60s. MacInnes has been criticized for his exotification and sexualization of black culture in his books. MacInnes also coined the cringeworthy word "spadelet" to refer to black infants.

As with many other racialized terms, there were efforts to reclaim the word after it had become a slur. Four years after Malcolm X was killed in 1965, poet Ted Joans eulogized him in his poem "My Ace of Spades." The artist David Hammons also explored the negative connotations to the word in his 1973 sculpture "Spade With Chains." Hammons once told an interviewer that he began to incorporate spades into his work because "I was called a spade once, and I didn't know what it meant ... so I took the shape and started painting it." And a character in 2009's Black Dynamite (a spoof of the blaxploitation films of the 1970s) tells a rival that he's "blacker than the ace of spades and more militant than you."

So what does all of this mean for people who want to, well, "call a spade a spade"? I urge caution. Mieder concludes his case study with the argument that "to call a spade a spade" should be retired from modern usage: "Rather than taking the chance of unintentionally offending someone or of being misunderstood, it is best to relinquish the old innocuous proverbial expression all together."

But I didn't call anyone a spade.

I used a commonly used phrase to mean Let's call it what it is.

Yeah you did.

Why are you backpeddling so fast? Own your racism.

Okay if I did, tell me who I called a "Spade"

"To call a spade a spade" clearly communicates that someone must be a "spade."

The whole thing is offensive.

Except for the fact that he didn't call a person that!

And that phrase existed long before that term was used to refer to black people, right?

(01-12-2018 03:56 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 03:40 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 01:08 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 01:07 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 11:50 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  You used it in the below context. It does not matter what you though...only what others take it to mean. Isn't that exactly what you did with the President's word and in this thread?

In the late 1920s during the Harlem Renaissance, "spade" began to evolve into code for a black person, according to Patricia T. O'Connor and Stewart Kellerman's book Origins of the Specious: Myths and Misconceptions of the English Language. The Oxford English Dictionary says the first appearance of the word spade as a reference to blackness was in Claude McKay's 1928 novel Home to Harlem, which was notable for its depictions of street life in Harlem in the 1920s. "Jake is such a fool spade," wrote McKay. "Don't know how to handle the womens." Fellow Harlem Renaissance writer Wallace Thurman then used the word in his novel The Blacker The Berry: A Novel of Negro Life, a widely read and notable work that explored prejudice within the African-American community. "Wonder where all the spades keep themselves?" one of Thurman's characters asks. It was also in the 1920s that the "spade" in question began to refer to the spade found on playing cards.

The word would change further in the years to come. Eventually, the phrase "black as the ace of spades" also became widely used, further strengthening the association between spades and playing cards.

Wolfgang Mieder notes that in the fourth edition of The American Language, H.L. Mencken's famous book about language in the United States, "spade" is listed as one of the "opprobrious" names for "Negroes" (along with "Zulu," "skunk" and many other words that I can't print here). Robert L. Chapman struck a similar note in his Thesaurus of American Slang (1989). "All these terms will give deep offense if used by nonblacks," warned Chapman, listing "spade" in a group that included words like blackbird, shade, shadow, skillet and smoke.

The British author Colin MacInnes, who was white, frequently used the term in novels like City of Spades (1957) and Absolute Beginners (1959) about the multiracial, multicultural London of the 1950s and '60s. MacInnes has been criticized for his exotification and sexualization of black culture in his books. MacInnes also coined the cringeworthy word "spadelet" to refer to black infants.

As with many other racialized terms, there were efforts to reclaim the word after it had become a slur. Four years after Malcolm X was killed in 1965, poet Ted Joans eulogized him in his poem "My Ace of Spades." The artist David Hammons also explored the negative connotations to the word in his 1973 sculpture "Spade With Chains." Hammons once told an interviewer that he began to incorporate spades into his work because "I was called a spade once, and I didn't know what it meant ... so I took the shape and started painting it." And a character in 2009's Black Dynamite (a spoof of the blaxploitation films of the 1970s) tells a rival that he's "blacker than the ace of spades and more militant than you."

So what does all of this mean for people who want to, well, "call a spade a spade"? I urge caution. Mieder concludes his case study with the argument that "to call a spade a spade" should be retired from modern usage: "Rather than taking the chance of unintentionally offending someone or of being misunderstood, it is best to relinquish the old innocuous proverbial expression all together."

But I didn't call anyone a spade.

I used a commonly used phrase to mean Let's call it what it is.

Yeah you did.

Why are you backpeddling so fast? Own your racism.

Okay if I did, tell me who I called a "Spade"

racist gonna be racist

That's what I thought.

You got nothing.

(01-12-2018 03:31 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 03:21 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 12:36 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 12:19 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  That phrase has never been considered racist that I'm aware. Calling someone one, that's a different story.

Can we count on your scholarly defense the next time the left accuses someone of being racist for saying words like thug, or orient?

As soon as you call an apple an orange.

If fit, or anyone else, calls a black person a spade, then sure, I'll accuse them of racism.

So when are you going to accuse Fit of racism? Monday? Tuesday? When?

When he gets to the top of the virtue signal throne of judgement.