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(01-15-2018 12:02 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear BroncoPhilly,
The reason the media is attacking Trump as you put it, is because he constantly lies, or at best, twists the facts to fit his position. It's fair game to go after someone who fits that picture. Obama did not receive a bye, as you claim. Remember the press attacking him for the roll out of the Affordable Care Act?

Like I said in an earlier post, Obama did not trash the economy, when he had positive job growth in the last two years of his administration.
Is your president going to keep his promise of having Mexico pay for his wall that he wants? Yes, tax reform by any measure of independent economists, is weighed heavily on the rich and corporations. Even with the $1200 that the average wage earner is to receive as a tax break.... do the math, if they get paid every week, that comes to a whopping $23 a week. Not even enough for a tank of gas. If people think that is great, I've got a bridge to sell them.

When it comes to fairness and a lack of objectivity, one only has to look at Fox. The most unobjective news (and I use that word loosely) organization out there.

Talking about News or Op Ed Shows? You probably confuse the two.

Dear Boca Rocket,
I am not confused about news versus editorial opinions. You might though, by watching Fox News.

(01-15-2018 12:02 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear BroncoPhilly,
The reason the media is attacking Trump as you put it, is because he constantly lies, or at best, twists the facts to fit his position. It's fair game to go after someone who fits that picture. Obama did not receive a bye, as you claim. Remember the press attacking him for the roll out of the Affordable Care Act?

Like I said in an earlier post, Obama did not trash the economy, when he had positive job growth in the last two years of his administration.
Is your president going to keep his promise of having Mexico pay for his wall that he wants? Yes, tax reform by any measure of independent economists, is weighed heavily on the rich and corporations. Even with the $1200 that the average wage earner is to receive as a tax break.... do the math, if they get paid every week, that comes to a whopping $23 a week. Not even enough for a tank of gas. If people think that is great, I've got a bridge to sell them.

When it comes to fairness and a lack of objectivity, one only has to look at Fox. The most unobjective news (and I use that word loosely) organization out there.

5% of the news reported on the MSM about Trump is regarded as complimentary, 95% is negative-usually extremely negative. Obama NEVER saw that level of criticism, because he was a Leftist Democrat and the MSM shares that ideology. What criticism he received was muted, usually had little follow-up or focus. Obama got a bye, no question about that.

Obama did nothing for the economy because he didn't understand economic matters. What does a 'community organizer', part time college lecturer and one term US Senator know about economic matters? Nothing. Obama couldn't run a lemonaide stand except into the ground. Donald Trump on the other hand has been a businessman all his life. He may not know a lot about foreign policy, but business matters he DOES know about.

As for your comments on tax reform, my 401k has gone up almost half a million Dollars in value in the last year. You folks on the Left just never seem to get it. You focus on the direct reduction in individual taxes, yet ignore the much larger impact on our economy and stock markets in general.

It's conceivable to me that none of you own an IRA or 401k and you've probably never owned a share of stock in your life. Is it the President's fault that half this nation is uneducated about/ignorant of wealth creation? He can create the environment for you to make money, but he can't do it for you-that's pretty much up to yourself.

The folks in my family who vote Democrat and hate Trump don't own any stock, they have no IRA or 401k, they live paycheck to paycheck and have nothing to show for all their years of labor. Why? Because they simply DON'T KNOW how to create wealth or take advantage of markets. They never studied it, they are for the most part entirely reliant on governmental support systems for their livelihood in retirement. In word of fact, they're IGNORANT because they lacked the drive and the interest to plan for themselves. At the risk of offending some, I think a lot of Democrats fall into that category.

Dear BroncoPhilly,
How you can continue to ignore the fact that employment growth, is part of the economy, is beyond belief. Donald Trump owes people money that did work for him and his businesses. If, that is the kind of business person you want to emulate, go for it. The stock market is not the be all for business in America, and you have no idea whether I own stock, or IRA's, or any other investment. I had no idea that I was supposed to be involved in wealth creation, and that the president was showing me the way. Wow!
Did it ever occur to you that many people do not have the resources to invest in the stock market? Maybe they should take the $23 a week that they are going to get in that tax break and invest that. Then on the other hand, maybe they have to take care of their families. You know, feed them, give them health care, educate them, put clothes on their backs. You make life too simple.

Quote: I had no idea that I was supposed to be involved in wealth creation

Therein is the problem. Too many folks have no idea that THEY are primarily responsible for building their own nest egg. The concept of personal responsibility is almost completely alien to those on the Left. That's the MAIN difference between conservatives and Liberals, frankly.

Quote:Did it ever occur to you that many people do not have the resources to invest in the stock market?

Bullchit. The same folks who tell me they don't have money to invest sport expensive tatoos, clothes and other things. The real issue is, saving/investing money is way down the list of things they think of doing.

The difference between a starting-out Liberal and a starting-out conservative is the conservative ASPIRES to be in that 1%. The Liberal thinks the 1% is ethically evil-even though they'd love to have some of that money themselves.

I was putting 20% of my salary into my 401k the first paycheck I got as an engineer, way back in 1976. And I've done it ever since. Between savings and growth in the stock markets it's accumulated to a tidy sum now. But, you have to have a savings mentality in order to so that. If you believe your money is intended to be used for filling emotional needs of the moment you will never save. Ever.

Dear BroncoPhilly,
I was being facetious about my comment regarding wealth creation. Anyway, you make a huge leap that people on the left have no personal responsibility. You really have no basis in fact to make that statement. You should be realizing by now, that the very freedoms you espouse that we have in America, allow people to make the choice between a tattoo and putting money in a savings account.
It is not your responsibility to demand that everyone in America have your values. Do you believe that people should also be responsible for their debts? If you do, you better write your president, and tell him to meet his financial obligations.

(01-15-2018 09:48 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear brovol,
I never said I wanted to leave America, because for the most part I am happy with it. I also do not look to the federal government to solve my problems. If, the federal government is going to make my life better, then so be it. That's the big difference between us. You look at the federal government as taking things away from you, or somehow making things difficult. I do not.

I look at the current federal government as something far larger and more involved than it should be or was originally intended. You, I am afraid, lack the proper historical perspective on why a "limited" federal government is better.

I never suggested I wanted to leave America either, but you suggested that. From your comments, and seeming fondness for socialism, I draw the conclusion that you believe the government should "provide" for Americans, so while you claim not to look to the government to solve your own problems, you must want the government to provide for others. I argue that the government needs to allow free enterprise to exist so folks can provide for themselves.

Dear brovol,
I understand historical perspective better than you. You and your buddy BroncoPhilly feel you know what is best for America. You can think that your way is best, but that is not necessarily the case, or even correct. No system is perfect, but you seem to believe that if everyone just did as you believe, that we would have utopia. It doesn't work that way. You also fail to realize that governments evolve with the needs of society. You can think that we can still live in the days of George Washington, but it won't work.

(01-15-2018 12:02 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Even with the $1200 that the average wage earner is to receive as a tax break.... do the math, if they get paid every week, that comes to a whopping $23 a week. Not even enough for a tank of gas. If people think that is great, I've got a bridge to sell them.

Elitist much?

Anyone on this board want $1200?

Walk into his home and take it from Ken, without his consent.

He apparently looks down on folks who think that's a significant amount of $$$.

Quote:That's the big difference between us. You look at the federal government as taking things away from you, or somehow making things difficult. I do not.

And based upon this self-congratulatory tone/quote.

He won't mind.

Dear ess,
As usual you fail to understand that $23 a week will not make a real difference in anyones life. It has nothing to do with elitism, it has to do with reality. I guess you are still living in belief that any tax cut is a great thing. You can continue to delude yourself that the tax cut as described above is going to benefit people of the wage earning society of America. Let's see how many more automobiles are purchased with that money, or maybe stoves, furniture, financing a college education.

Quote:Anyway, you make a huge leap that people on the left have no personal responsibility. You really have no basis in fact to make that statement.

I just told you about the folks in my own family who are Democrats and compare and contrast their life's focus and accomplishments with the Republicans. And I've seen plenty of that outside my own family as well, so how can you say 'I have no basis in fact to make that statement/'? I have as much basis in fact as anybody and far more than most.

The chief difference between Conservatives and Liberals is that Cons accept that they themselves are fundamentally responsible for their economic situation in life. Conservatives plan carefully, save and make investments. Liberals, with rare exceptions, make excuses.

The Federal Government is going to fritter away Social Security and Medicare, it's just a matter of time. So I'm giving you good advice about savings. You can either accept it and run with it, or you can accept the role as a perpetual victim. That's really up to you.

I don't see any reason a young man or young woman with a good college degree can't retire with several million Dollars in investments if they work hard and focus on saving/investing. No reason whatsoever. Or you can sit back and count on the Government taking care of you-that's your choice.

(01-15-2018 09:08 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear ess,
As usual you fail to understand that $23 a week will not make a real difference in anyones life. It has nothing to do with elitism, it has to do with reality. I guess you are still living in belief that any tax cut is a great thing. You can continue to delude yourself that the tax cut as described above is going to benefit people of the wage earning society of America. Let's see how many more automobiles are purchased with that money, or maybe stoves, furniture, financing a college education.

Ken, let me help you with basic econ. There are 125 million people getting a full time paycheck in the US, and another 45 million retirees drawing social security.

Using your $23 avg. that equates to about $1200 a year that the government doesn’t confiscate, or roughly 60 hours of an employees labor (based on $20 an hour) THAT THEY WERENT WORKING FOR UNCLE TAXMAN.

Now take that $1200 and multiply it by 170 million people. That’s
$204000000000/ 204 Billion put back into the economy in various forms. Over 10 years that’s $12,000 a person, or 2 Trillion in total. That’s real money Ken. If tomorrow 170 million $1200 checks were sent out you can bet your booty you’d see an uptick in GDP, the market, and lower unemployment.

Now if we let Washington spend that 204 billion, understand that 80% will be eaten up in administrative costs.

When Pelosi said these “cuts are crumbs,” she was counting on people like you to buy her BS. Glad you were there for her.

Dear Chipdip2,
At $23 a week it is a crumb. You do not get a check for $1200, so all your pie in the sky money isn't going to be there. Let me know for what you spend your $23. I want to know how you have helped the economy.

Dear BroncoPhilly,
What you cite as evidence, claiming friends, and relatives, as proof of the vast majority of democrats fitting into irresponsible people financially, fits into the category of anecdotal evidence. You cite no rigorous or scientific analysis to support your claim. Therefore, you have no right to claim what you do. You may think that, but again, that is not proof.

Ken....Ken... Ken... Ken.

So how about those Eagles?

Dear brovol,
The people on our board have been very disappointed with the MAC part of the schedule. If things continue the way they are going, it is going to be a long season. If, you have been over there (Eagle's Nest) you know people are upset with Coach Murphy. Myself, it has not gone the way I thought it would, so I am also disappointed so far.

As they say, 'Don't throw pearls before swine.'

This is America Ken, you can do whatever you want with your own money. Go get that tatoo, buy a nice stereo system, smoke a few dime bags. Like I care.

But, when you're 65 with your eyes on retirement and trying to figure out how you can do that-don't blame anyone else if the numbers don't add up. They can, but they probably won't.

The Dems are right about one thing, there are classes of people in this country-the perpetual victims because most of them CHOOSE to be perpetual victims and the folks who are clever enough to plan their way out of it. We'll overlook for the sake of discussion those that are intellectually/emotionally incapable of helping themselves-they will always be present and we should include a social safety net for them. On that we agree.

Dear BroncoPhilly,
On your last point we can agree.

(01-16-2018 08:50 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear BroncoPhilly,
On your last point we can agree.

(01-16-2018 09:00 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Chipdip2,
At $23 a week it is a crumb.

Dollar cost averaging that those "crumbs" into an S&P Index Fund, assuming 7% return (average ROR from 1950-2009) leads to $15,825.74 over the next 10 years.

You might consider that "chump change".

I don't. Not even close.

How about sending me a check for $23 each week?


Or.....if you want to compare "apples to apples".....why don't I just come and take $23 from you each week, absent your consent?