(08-28-2016 08:26 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-27-2016 07:27 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I don't buy the Biblical doom and gloom.

All I can do is try as much as possible to be a good person and live as faithfully as I can. I have too much going to leave time to delve through tomes of literature about something I can't do anything to affect. If the "end of times" is tomorrow? It just is.

Agree. Got grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can change, and the wisdom to know the difference.

(08-28-2016 08:04 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-27-2016 11:37 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Its not a mater of "interpretation", its a matter of simply reading and accepting what the text just plainly says.
Jesus just plainly said they were thieves, liars and murders of the prophets. How in the world you could read that any other way is beyond me.
When people today don't want to agree with what the bible just plainly says and don't have any scripture to back them up, they being complaining about "interpretation" as a cop out.

Numerous scriptural references also make it abundantly clear that those scholarly people had a very different expectation--Jesus as Che Guevara, if you will--from the Messiah who showed up. It's interesting to me that the modern liberation theology movement is based on a vision of Jesus as Che that does't square with reality.

And the scripture doesn't "plainly say" everything that you seem to think it "plainly says." There's a lot of interpretation that goes between the actual words written in scripture and what people claim that it "plainly says." That's why there are so many different versions of what it "plainly says" and so many arguments about what it "plainly says." For example, there are premillennial, postmillennial, and antimillennial views of the end times, and all claim to be what scripture "plainly says."

Whenever someone tells me that scripture "plainly says" something, I usually find that either, 1) the referenced scripture does not "plainly" say anything of the sort, and in many cases says something very different when read in context instead of a single verse lifted out of context, or 2) there's another place where scripture says something very different, or 3) often both.

While I admire Eric's knowledge of this stuff, he is basing this his assertion on his level of knowledge(which is clearly higher than mine) I.. also find than many of the scriptures do not "plainly" state things. Many times I don't even understand what is written without some biblical scholars interpretation. You can pull up just about any these ,do a search and find a dozen different interpretations from multiple sources. We evidently are not alone having trouble understands some of these scriptures Owl.

(08-28-2016 08:04 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-27-2016 11:37 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Its not a mater of "interpretation", its a matter of simply reading and accepting what the text just plainly says.
Jesus just plainly said they were thieves, liars and murders of the prophets. How in the world you could read that any other way is beyond me.
When people today don't want to agree with what the bible just plainly says and don't have any scripture to back them up, they being complaining about "interpretation" as a cop out.

Numerous scriptural references also make it abundantly clear that those scholarly people had a very different expectation--Jesus as Che Guevara, if you will--from the Messiah who showed up. It's interesting to me that the modern liberation theology movement is based on a vision of Jesus as Che that does't square with reality.

And the scripture doesn't "plainly say" everything that you seem to think it "plainly says." There's a lot of interpretation that goes between the actual words written in scripture and what people claim that it "plainly says." That's why there are so many different versions of what it "plainly says" and so many arguments about what it "plainly says." For example, there are premillennial, postmillennial, and antimillennial views of the end times, and all claim to be what scripture "plainly says."

Whenever someone tells me that scripture "plainly says" something, I usually find that either, 1) the referenced scripture does not "plainly" say anything of the sort, and in many cases says something very different when read in context instead of a single verse lifted out of context, or 2) there's another place where scripture says something very different, or 3) often both.

I fed myself those same excuses most of my life. I too tried to convince myself that because there are so many false teachers and false doctrines out there, that it was impossible to know the truth. How foolish I was.

As far as what we were actually talking about here, the simple fact is none of those things even remotely apply to what Jesus said about the pharisees and why they did not know who he was.

A 5 year old can read those passages and see where Jesus called those men thieves, liars and murderers.

He just flat out said they were supposed to know the hour of their visitation and because they did not, they were going to be destroyed.

You are either refusing to read them or just too prideful to admit you were wrong and did not know what was written.

(08-28-2016 08:37 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  While I admire Eric's knowledge of this stuff, he is basing this his assertion on his level of knowledge(which is clearly higher than mine) I.. also find than many of the scriptures do not "plainly" state things. Many times I don't even understand what is written without some biblical scholars interpretation. You can pull up just about any these ,do a search and find a dozen different interpretations from multiple sources. We evidently are not alone having trouble understands some of these scriptures Owl.

The Scriptures I posted here are not even remotely difficult to understand.

These are not parables and not illusions, they are fact based judgments on these men and their actions.

I used that same general excuse for the vast majority of my life. The truth is I was simply not seriously studying the book. I was far too busy doing what pleased me instead of studying the Word and seeking the Lords will.

If you want to understand the NT, get serious about it. The NT is not a very big book. Know it inside and out.

(08-28-2016 08:30 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Agree. Got grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can change, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Proverbs 2:1-10
1 My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;

2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;

3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;

4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;

5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.

6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.

7 He layeth up sound wisdom for the righteous: he is a buckler to them that walk uprightly.

8 He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of his saints.

9 Then shalt thou understand righteousness, and judgment, and equity; yea, every good path.

10 When wisdom entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul;

Proverbs 8:4-10

4 Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice is to the sons of man.

5 O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.

6 Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things.

7 For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.

8 All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.

9 They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.

10 Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.

(08-28-2016 06:06 AM)ODU BLUE Wrote:  ericsrevenge76 the Bible says "I will put hooks in your jaws (Gog, or modern-day Russia) bring you out with your whole army..." (Ezekiel 38:4). Do you think the massive oil discovery in the Golan Heights is the hook? Strategically, Israel's disputed Golan Heights region is of vital importance to them as it sits directly between Syria and Israel, serving as a critical buffer zone between the rebel-run western border of Syria and Israel’s crucial water resource, the Sea of Galilee. Syria says the land belongs to them. Will Russia eventually try to help them reclaim it from Israel?

http://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/W...itory.html

I imagine the oil plus the super massive natural gas reserves the Israelis recently found are going to play huge roles. The text just plainly says they come to take a spoil.

2 Major natural gas fields were discovered in 2009, the Leviathan and Tamar. They are making Israel a MAJOR player on the world energy market, particularly the middle east. They have not even tapped into these reserves yet, they are still working out the details.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan_gas_field

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamar_gas_field

Basically, Leviathan just provides Israel with some energy security. But in a glut world, this really isn't much of a game changer overall.

Supply isn't the big issue with Natural Gas, as there is plenty of it. The big issue is market and infrastructure to get it to that market.

(08-28-2016 02:06 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Basically, Leviathan just provides Israel with some energy security. But in a glut world, this really isn't much of a game changer overall.

Supply isn't the big issue with Natural Gas, as there is plenty of it. The big issue is market and infrastructure to get it to that market.

“We are talking about a strata which is 350 meters thick and what is important is the thickness and the porosity,” the company’s chief geologist, Yuval Bartov, explained. “On average in the world, strata are 20-30 meters thick, so this is ten times as large as that, so we are talking about significant quantities.”

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/07/...srael.html

That's some pretty good maps of the olden times civilizations. I knew of some but yours were better. Where did you get that those maps?

An important part of all this is the 3rd Temple and even though it hasn't been built yet the Israelis are in the process of getting the stones ready and the ritual objects that are used. When they actually start to build I'd advise everyone to get good with the Lord. Better yet, don't wait because you never know when YOUR armageddon will come. That thief in the night doesn't have to be about the end of the world just the end of us from whichever method the Lord wants to use to end our lives on this earth.

(08-28-2016 06:25 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  That's some pretty good maps of the olden times civilizations. I knew of some but yours were better. Where did you get that those maps?

An important part of all this is the 3rd Temple and even though it hasn't been built yet the Israelis are in the process of getting the stones ready and the ritual objects that are used. When they actually start to build I'd advise everyone to get good with the Lord. Better yet, don't wait because you never know when YOUR armageddon will come. That thief in the night doesn't have to be about the end of the world just the end of us from whichever method the Lord wants to use to end our lives on this earth.

yep

We are not really told when the 3rd temple is officially completed or opened in the context of the tribulation, we just know its there and the final antichrist leader will sit in it and call himself God. (2 Thess 2:4)

We do know that there has to be a rapture of the church saints and a changeover form this current dispensation to the final tribulation dispensation. Otherwise he would not be sitting in the "Temple of God", he would just be sitting in a Temple. As we know, in our current dispensation of Grace, WE are the Temple of God (1 Cor 3:16, 1 Cor 6:19). So this dispensation has to end and the final period begin for their to be a "Temple of God" made with hands again for someone to actually sit in. The Jews can open a 3rd Temple tomorrow, but as long as the full Church is still here, it is not the "Temple of God", we still are.

We also know that the Church is in heaven wearing crowns before the first seal is ever broken in Rev chapter 4-5, and exits heaven with Christ on white horses for the battle of Armageddon in chapter 19.

We know they can get the temple up and going very quickly. So it could be completed pre rapture or post rapture.

We just won't know until it happens.

(08-27-2016 10:07 AM)bullet Wrote:  The Kurds in Iraq and Kurds in Syria need to declare independence that will allow them to sell their oil and get arms.

Obviously Turkey would never allow that and wouldn't not give a crap what the rest of the world thought.

Russia has supplied S-300 missiles around nuclear plant near Qom

AFP reports that Iran has deployed Russian-supplied S-300 missiles around its nuclear plant near Qom. The system is aimed at the sky to protect the plant from attack. This comes after the revelation that pallets of Euros, Swiss Francs and other currencies totaling some $400 million were delivered by plane to Iran after the current US “president” negotiated a nuclear deal with the terrorist state. The money was ransom paid to Iran for the release of hostages the terrorist-sponsoring nation was holding during the negotiations. While the White House said there was nothing unusual with the ransom, historians are now saying it is unprecedented. The US cash likely made the Russian missile purchase possible.

http://www.dailyjot.com/read-the-daily-jot.html

(08-29-2016 08:22 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(08-27-2016 10:07 AM)bullet Wrote:  The Kurds in Iraq and Kurds in Syria need to declare independence that will allow them to sell their oil and get arms.

Obviously Turkey would never allow that and wouldn't not give a crap what the rest of the world thought.

Turkey seems sold on the Iraq Kurds. They seem to be bombing the Syrian Kurds right now. Pretty dangerous game there.

(08-29-2016 09:41 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-29-2016 08:22 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(08-27-2016 10:07 AM)bullet Wrote:  The Kurds in Iraq and Kurds in Syria need to declare independence that will allow them to sell their oil and get arms.

Obviously Turkey would never allow that and wouldn't not give a crap what the rest of the world thought.

Turkey seems sold on the Iraq Kurds. They seem to be bombing the Syrian Kurds right now. Pretty dangerous game there.

IMO, Turkey will never go for an independent Kurdistan because of its own Kurd population, etc.

(08-29-2016 09:43 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(08-29-2016 09:41 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-29-2016 08:22 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(08-27-2016 10:07 AM)bullet Wrote:  The Kurds in Iraq and Kurds in Syria need to declare independence that will allow them to sell their oil and get arms.

Obviously Turkey would never allow that and wouldn't not give a crap what the rest of the world thought.

Turkey seems sold on the Iraq Kurds. They seem to be bombing the Syrian Kurds right now. Pretty dangerous game there.

IMO, Turkey will never go for an independent Kurdistan because of its own Kurd population, etc.

Money talks. Pipelines and ports are profitable. Plus the Iraqi Kurds have been allowing them to attack the terrorist camps.

(08-27-2016 05:05 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  You also make room by relocating Sunnis and Shias to their respective areas. Again, I don't think this is as hard as some might think. They like to be with their kind (sorry if that sounds racist, not intended that way, just hard to find other words to express the thought). Plus, life in Turkey is not exactly a dream existence, so it's not that hard to walk away from it. Same basically, in all respects, for Kurds in Syria.

How about, "people in the region like to escape genocide, and they are all pretty good at genocide".

(08-29-2016 09:44 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-29-2016 09:43 AM)VA49er Wrote:  IMO, Turkey will never go for an independent Kurdistan because of its own Kurd population, etc.

Money talks. Pipelines and ports are profitable. Plus the Iraqi Kurds have been allowing them to attack the terrorist camps.

You realize that when Turkey says they are attacking ISIS, (or terrorist camps), they are really attacking the Kurds.
When Assad says he's attacking ISIS, he is attacking moderate Sunni opposition.
When Russia says it is attacking ISIS, it is attacking anyone that is supported by the US.
When Shia Iraq says it is attacking ISIS, it is bringing in Iranian troops to shore up their position and stave off the US.

None of those groups have any real interest in attacking ISIS - not because ISIS poses a threat, but because its presence allows it to pursue other interests as long as ISIS continues to exist.

(08-29-2016 04:33 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(08-29-2016 09:44 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-29-2016 09:43 AM)VA49er Wrote:  IMO, Turkey will never go for an independent Kurdistan because of its own Kurd population, etc.

Money talks. Pipelines and ports are profitable. Plus the Iraqi Kurds have been allowing them to attack the terrorist camps.

You realize that when Turkey says they are attacking ISIS, (or terrorist camps), they are really attacking the Kurds.
When Assad says he's attacking ISIS, he is attacking moderate Sunni opposition.
When Russia says it is attacking ISIS, it is attacking anyone that is supported by the US.
When Shia Iraq says it is attacking ISIS, it is bringing in Iranian troops to shore up their position and stave off the US.

None of those groups have any real interest in attacking ISIS - not because ISIS poses a threat, but because its presence allows it to pursue other interests as long as ISIS continues to exist.

Or in other words, they're all working (implicitly at least, with ISIS).

(08-29-2016 09:41 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-29-2016 08:22 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(08-27-2016 10:07 AM)bullet Wrote:  The Kurds in Iraq and Kurds in Syria need to declare independence that will allow them to sell their oil and get arms.

Obviously Turkey would never allow that and wouldn't not give a crap what the rest of the world thought.

Turkey seems sold on the Iraq Kurds. They seem to be bombing the Syrian Kurds right now. Pretty dangerous game there.

They aren't.

Most of the border crossings are closed or extremely tight. The Turks prevent the movement of most Kurdish goods completely from crossing the border and travel for Kurds is extremely difficult.

The Autonomous Region is a country unto itself, and they like it that way.