I don't buy the Biblical doom and gloom.

(08-27-2016 07:27 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I don't buy the Biblical doom and gloom.

It says most people will not. Christ returns like a thief in the night. Catches most people a sleep at the wheel.

(08-27-2016 07:27 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I don't buy the Biblical doom and gloom.

Are you a Christian?

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I am a Christian, but I don't get into all this end times speculation. I figure when God is ready for me to know, He will tell me--or show me. I really think a lot of it risks falling into the same trap that the Pharisees and Sadducees fell into in the time when Christ was on earth. They had studied and studied, they knew EXACTLY what the Messiah was going to be like, and He came and fulfilled all the prophecies in totally different ways from what they expected, so they never figured out who He was. I don't begrudge those who do go to great lengths to study it. That's just not how my faith works.

(08-27-2016 09:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I am a Christian, but I don't get into all this end times speculation. I figure when God is ready for me to know, He will tell me--or show me. I really think a lot of it risks falling into the same trap that the Pharisees and Sadducees fell into in the time when Christ was on earth. They had studied and studied, they knew EXACTLY what the Messiah was going to be like, and He came and fulfilled all the prophecies in totally different ways from what they expected, so they never figured out who He was. I don't begrudge those who do go to great lengths to study it. That's just not how my faith works.

He has already told you, you have just made a decision to ignore most of it.

My faith is based on the Lords, will, not my own personal will. You just expressed perfectly one of the largest problems in the current Church. This is why Christ called the final Church age an age of apostasy., where people begin to ignore the doctrines of the bible and begin to follow their own will and desires. Basically making it up as they go, as opposed to seeking the Lords will as it is written.

If you read the gospels, you will see that Jesus tells us the Pharisees were corrupt, wicked men who MURDERED the prophets. Their denying of the Messiah had little to do with their studies, it was about their corruption and wickedness.

These were NOT holy men, they were murders, thieves and liars according to Jesus.

God did not fill up the 1/3rd bible with end time prophecies for Christians to just ignore them and pay no attention, He told us specifically to study, take heed of the prophecies and watch closely.

He also told us to be wise concerning His word, not in ignorance of it.

(08-27-2016 10:57 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-27-2016 09:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I am a Christian, but I don't get into all this end times speculation. I figure when God is ready for me to know, He will tell me--or show me. I really think a lot of it risks falling into the same trap that the Pharisees and Sadducees fell into in the time when Christ was on earth. They had studied and studied, they knew EXACTLY what the Messiah was going to be like, and He came and fulfilled all the prophecies in totally different ways from what they expected, so they never figured out who He was. I don't begrudge those who do go to great lengths to study it. That's just not how my faith works.

Actually, if you read the gospels a little closer , you will see that Jesus tells us the Pharisees were corrupt, wicked men. Their denying of the Messiah had little to do with their studies, it was about their corruption and wickedness.
These were NOT holy men, they were murders, thieves and liars.
God did not fill up the 1/3rd bible with end time prophecies for Christians to just ignore them and pay no attention, He told us specifically to study, take heed of the prophecies and watch closely.
He also told us to be wise concerning His word, not in ignorance of it.

I'm not ignoring His word. I'm ignoring the cottage industry that has been made out of a few verses here and there.

(08-27-2016 09:04 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(08-27-2016 07:27 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I don't buy the Biblical doom and gloom.

Are you a Christian?

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Yes

(08-27-2016 11:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I'm not ignoring His word.

You are absolutely ignoring it point blank if you think the pharisees just made a mistake in their studies and that's why they rejected the Messiah. That is not even remotely what Jesus said about them.

If you study these things as He told us to, you would know these are not just a few verses here and there, they are the very heart of end time prophecies.

Not only is 1./3 of the bible prophecy, Jesus Himself gave one of His most detailed sermons on what happens and at the and and told us multiple times to watch very closely.

He told us to be wise as serpents, and not to be ignorant children.

I suggest a serious study of Matthew chapter 23 for starters. That will TOTALLY dispel your beliefs that the pharisees were holy men who simply misunderstood the prophecies.


Matthew 23:13-36

“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. 14 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.[c]

15 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple, he is obliged to perform it.’ 17 Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that sanctifies[d] the gold? 18 And, ‘Whoever swears by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gift that is on it, he is obliged to perform it.’ 19 Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that sanctifies the gift? 20 Therefore he who swears by the altar, swears by it and by all things on it. 21 He who swears by the temple, swears by it and by Him who dwells[e] in it. 22 And he who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by Him who sits on it.

23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. 24 Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence.[f] 26 Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.

27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, 30 and say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.’

31 “Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt. 33 Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? 34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

(08-27-2016 11:05 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-27-2016 11:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I'm not ignoring His word. I'm ignoring the cottage industry that has been made out of a few verses here and there.

You are absolutely ignoring it point blank if you think the pharisees just made a mistake in their studies and that's why they rejected the Messiah. That is not even remotely what Jesus said about them.

You're taking some pretty wild liberties with what I actually said.

Quote:If you study these things as He told us to, you would know these are not just a few verse here and there, they are the very heart of end time prophecies.

My problem is with all the elaborate theories that have been constructed based on pretty thin scriptural footing.

Luke 19:41-44

41 Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, 42 saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. 43 For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, 44 and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”


They were supposed to KNOW and have been prepared for His arrival, and Jesus himself said because they did not know the hour of their visitation, that great judgment was going to come upon them.

(08-27-2016 11:15 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  My problem is with all the elaborate theories that have been constructed based on pretty thin scriptural footing.

Thats why you should be reading these things for yourself.

Then you will know what the Scriptures actually say for yourself, instead of relying on what countless others tell you who probably haven't even really studied them for themselves.

That is the biggest problem in the churches right now, people relying on others to tell them what the bible says, instead of studying it thoroughly themselves like the Lord told us to.

(08-27-2016 11:18 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-27-2016 11:15 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  My problem is with all the elaborate theories that have been constructed based on pretty thin scriptural footing.

Thats why you should be reading these things for yourself.
Then you will know what the Scriptures actually say for yourself, instead of relying on what countless others tell you who probably haven't even really studied them for themselves.

That's what I do, and why I do it.

(08-27-2016 11:21 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  That's what I do, and why I do it.

Doesn't sound like it at all based on what you posted here.

(08-27-2016 09:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I really think a lot of it risks falling into the same trap that the Pharisees and Sadducees fell into in the time when Christ was on earth. They had studied and studied, they knew EXACTLY what the Messiah was going to be like, and He came and fulfilled all the prophecies in totally different ways from what they expected, so they never figured out who He was.

As I illustrated in the previous verses, that is the total opposite of what Jesus said about these men not knowing who He was.

This is not a personal attack, I am trying to open your eyes to what is actually written.

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

(08-27-2016 11:26 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-27-2016 11:21 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  That's what I do, and why I do it.

Doesn't sound like it at all based on what you posted here.

Quote:I really think a lot of it risks falling into the same trap that the Pharisees and Sadducees fell into in the time when Christ was on earth. They had studied and studied, they knew EXACTLY what the Messiah was going to be like, and He came and fulfilled all the prophecies in totally different ways from what they expected, so they never figured out who He was.

As I illustrated in the previous verse, that is the total opposite of what Jesus said about these men not knowing who He was.

Disagreeing with YOUR INTERPRETATION of the verse is different from disagreeing with what the verse said.

(08-27-2016 11:32 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Disagreeing with YOUR INTERPRETATION of the verse is different from disagreeing with what the verse said.

Its not a mater of "interpretation", its a matter of simply reading and accepting what the text just plainly says.

Jesus just plainly said they were thieves, liars and murders of the prophets. How in the world you could read that any other way is beyond me.

When people today don't want to agree with what the bible just plainly says and don't have any scripture to back them up, they being complaining about "interpretation" as a cop out.

ericsrevenge76 the Bible says "I will put hooks in your jaws (Gog, or modern-day Russia) bring you out with your whole army..." (Ezekiel 38:4). Do you think the massive oil discovery in the Golan Heights is the hook? Strategically, Israel's disputed Golan Heights region is of vital importance to them as it sits directly between Syria and Israel, serving as a critical buffer zone between the rebel-run western border of Syria and Israel’s crucial water resource, the Sea of Galilee. Syria says the land belongs to them. Will Russia eventually try to help them reclaim it from Israel?

http://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/W...itory.html

(08-27-2016 11:37 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Its not a mater of "interpretation", its a matter of simply reading and accepting what the text just plainly says.
Jesus just plainly said they were thieves, liars and murders of the prophets. How in the world you could read that any other way is beyond me.
When people today don't want to agree with what the bible just plainly says and don't have any scripture to back them up, they being complaining about "interpretation" as a cop out.

Numerous scriptural references also make it abundantly clear that those scholarly people had a very different expectation--Jesus as Che Guevara, if you will--from the Messiah who showed up. It's interesting to me that the modern liberation theology movement is based on a vision of Jesus as Che that does't square with reality.

And the scripture doesn't "plainly say" everything that you seem to think it "plainly says." There's a lot of interpretation that goes between the actual words written in scripture and what people claim that it "plainly says." That's why there are so many different versions of what it "plainly says" and so many arguments about what it "plainly says." For example, there are premillennial, postmillennial, and antimillennial views of the end times, and all claim to be what scripture "plainly says."

Whenever someone tells me that scripture "plainly says" something, I usually find that either, 1) the referenced scripture does not "plainly" say anything of the sort, and in many cases says something very different when read in context instead of a single verse lifted out of context, or 2) there's another place where scripture says something very different, or 3) often both.

(08-27-2016 07:27 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I don't buy the Biblical doom and gloom.

All I can do is try as much as possible to be a good person and live as faithfully as I can. I have too much going in other pursuits to leave time to delve through tomes of literature about something I can't do anything to affect. If the "end of times" is tomorrow? It just is.